Almost 4 Year Old - Willful, Angry, Pee Accidents.

Updated on January 20, 2015
C.. asks from Columbia, MO
10 answers

ok - this is my foster son. He is angry. We get that, we know why and we are in between counselors because we are having him psychologically evaluated because the last 2 counselors gave us radically different opinions on diagnoses and treatments, so before we go full force with one method we want to have an actual psyc eval rather than "opinions".

He will be 4 in one week. He has been potty trained (except for night) for about 10 months.

In the past 2 months he has started peeing in his pants whenever he gets angry at us. Like if we say, it's dinner time. time to go potty and wash hands. He will scream, "No! I don't want to go potty". like tantrum screaming. And it's more than just when we want him to go to the potty. It's anytime he transitions.
We have been pretty good in talking him down and then once he gets calm from the initial tantrum he will say, "I will not go potty in the potty", look you dead in the face, smile and then pee. Right there. Wherever he is.

He will also scream when you try to clean him up after he pees. He won't take off his pants, we screams if you try to put him in the shower. We have tried using baby wipes (also a tantrum) but he still smells like pee.

I've done all the reading that you aren't supposed to get mad. You aren't supposed to discipline them etc. We do say "now we won't have time for xyz123 because we have to spend time cleaning up". We try to be really calm with him because he is so dramatic.

I know it's a control thing. I know he wants the attention and he doesn't know any other way to get it. We try to work provide him positive attention and work with him on his impulse issues and anger so that he can ask for good attention. we've been pretty successful over the past 1.5 years since he was placed with us. He's come a LONG way.

My question is...... what to do about it? I can't just let him pee all over the house and not clean him up. because of his dysfunctional background he doesn't even really have an established "currency" - that's about the ONLY thing each counselor could agree on - he's really hard to motivate or figure out what his incentive will be.

I'm hoping some of you might have some creative ideas that we can try. Any ideas?

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M.P.

answers from Portland on

Added: I doubt that the foster rules are no discipline. If that were true I would not be a foster parent. All children need discipline. In my state the only rules are no spanking, do not use taking away food as discipline, nor locking the child in their room for hours or as punishment. CSD provided monthly trainings as well as a workshop with Foster Kline of Love and Logic. The state also paid for therapy for the child. I did have to ask for it. Her therapist also counseled me. You can get help from CSD. Tell them how frustrated you are. Money is limited. Workers have heavy case load so you need to be the "squeaky wheel."

++++++++++++++++++

My daughter came to me at 7 as a foster child. She had learned to hit when expressing anger. She learned to not hit a few years after her two children were born. She was able to control her impulse most of the time. Time outs didn't work My point is with an abused child the issues are more complex.

I suggest you try consistently ignore him. He is doing it to get attention. Leave him wet clothes. They aren't comfortable. He may decide on his own to stop peeing.

In my own counseling I learned that what works with an average kid often does'not work. Fortunately I was single an had a close male friend who helped me some times. She didn't hit him and did what he asked. He had 2 boys so he was experienced. He used a firm no nonsense tone of voice and was tall and sure of himself. He also gave immediate consequences whitc was usually was a lecture. If she continued it was to stop giving her attention. We immediately returned home. Once she was starting to get pleasant he smiled and returned to being pleasant with her. Positive attention is imperative. I learned that giving 2 positive attention to every negative attention.

When my foster daughter acted out in an angry way I ignored her. Eventually she stopped the tantrums. Without attention she learned a tantrum didn't get attention. Because I was single I was able to give her lots of attention. I read to her at bedtime every night. It was a routine. I also stayed with her until she was close to being asleep.

I found that I had to help her do some things for a couple of months. Then it usually helped for me to be in her sight. An important thing to know is they missed much of the development stages. I put on hER shoes and sometimes helped her dress. I was more flexible and focused more on teaching. I didn't expect much from her for a couple of years. I suggest that even tho he's chronologically 4 he's propably still 2 developmently. I suggest you go back to 2 in the way you parent him. As one mom suggested only give him one task at a time. Start with helping him. Although it may be difficult spend at least 30 minutes every night. You and your husband trade off. He has probably not had that.

I was angry much of the time. It's really important to remain calm. I had difficulty not showing my anger. I did learn from a couple of my counselors to say "I am angry right now" And take a timeout for myself. Once calm I would give a consequence If she hadn't calmed down enough to do what I asked I sent her to her room to play or not. That time was hers.

Your faster son needs more of your time doing pleasant things. I watched many cartoons. We ate at McDonald's often because that is what she was used to. I learned to work on one issue at a time. I gave much fewer consequences than I would've had with a child born in a stable home. I needed more patience. I tried to always be close to her when I wanted her to do something. Down to look into eyes. I gave only one direction at a time and walkeD her through it for a month or so. I gave her choices like I would give a 2 or 3 yo. I suggset he needs lots of attention and patience.

My grandson is on the spectrum and his teachers try to redirect him to something he's interested in. Often they had him go to a quiet space set up to be cozy. This is their consequence. All consequences taught him how to manage his emotions for himself. HE started going to his room on his own when he first gets angry around 7 yo.

At his pediatrician nsuggested, his mom took him for evaluation with the school district when he was almost 3. The district provided a therapeutic preschool. Because of a federal mandate to diagnose and provide treatment for anything that might result in difficulty to learn.

I suggest he does all of this because he feels he has no power. Perhaps this has become a power struggle. He can control what he eats and when he pees. Work on giving him more power. I would start by not making him him. come to the table making that time pleasant for the rest of you. Give him a nutritious and filling snack later. I
I urge you to be kind when he has a tantrum and walk away while you work on just one issue. I suggest once he realizes he can choose this will no longer be an issue.

Make washing hands fun. If you have other young kids. Include them. Go with him. Sing a song or make faces while he washes his hands. He won't wash them at first. Just kindly keep this routine until the routine becomes his.

15 moms found this helpful

M.M.

answers from Chicago on

First..I want to say that you have a wonderful heart for taking this boy in and working with him to give him stability and boundaries.

My son (almost 7) is a kid that does not respond to incentive or punishment. He just doesn't care. The one thing that we have found does work with him is ignoring him. And when he doesn't listen, we tell him that's what we're going to do until he chooses to listen to us. For us, potty training him became a 2 yr battle that we ultimately lost. He did it when he wanted to, and nothing more.

So...we left him alone. Didn't clean him up, or make him change (he was not allowed to sit on the couch wet, though). I didn't even acknowledge it when he did after awhile. Eventually he did it when HE wanted to. And that was all there was going to be about it.

So you might just accept that this is how he operates and see what he does. You can place rules around what he's allowed to do if he's wet - for sanitary purposes. But apart from that, leave him alone, and see how he handles it. Maybe his currency is figuring it out for himself in a world without reinforcement.

7 moms found this helpful
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B.P.

answers from Kalamazoo on

I don't really have an answer for your main question of how to deal with willful potty accidents (we did deal with that briefly too even though we didn't have other issues) but if he is potty trained perhaps don't ask him to go potty; just let him go on his own when he wants to even if it is in the middle of dinner. I know my boys always hated it when I "made" them go potty if they didn't think they had to and in my mind it was an avoidable battle.

7 moms found this helpful
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C.S.

answers from Las Vegas on

The only suggestion I have is don't do everything at once. Perhaps this is all too much interaction at one given time.

So, try to ask him to go potty 15 minutes before dinner and let him know he will return to play. Don't mention he will wash his hands after going potty. After that is successful, clean up the toys. At the dinner table, wipe his hands with a baby wipe and be done with it.

As well, have him sit on the toilet right when he wakes up, before he starts breakfast or pulls out any toys.

Perhaps cleaning up toys, going potty, washing his hands, and sitting down to eat is overwhelming for him.

Best wishes.

5 moms found this helpful

K.C.

answers from Washington DC on

I'm going to suggest you ask this question on the foster / adoptive forum for Adoptive Families ... I, too, am a foster parent, and feel like the people there may be differently equipped to suggest a solution. His trauma may be transition related and he's hearing "shark music" at those times ... Just a thought. The link for the forum is http://www.adoptivefamiliescircle.com/groups/group/U.S._F...

ETA ... Marda has great advice! You also might want to look into the "Circle of Security" and / or "Beyond Consequences". The little guy needs love and support (as you know), not separation from the loving environment he's been in for 18 months. I do believe this isn't directed "at" you, but is a result of previous trauma surrounding transitions and he cannot control it, though he likely wants to. Both Circle of Security and Beyond Consequences can provide insight and help ... Also, please make sure his therapists are educated regarding foster and adoption issues .... Not all trauma is equal, especially for "our" kids.

I know these are lei,let expensive, but maybe they would help him in the interim as he works through whatever trauma .... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HJKPBQW/ref=pd_lpo_sb... .... Not pull-ups, but not quite underwear either.

5 moms found this helpful
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R.B.

answers from San Francisco on

Control and attention. That's what he wants. Marda's advice is excellent, there's probably not much more to say.

Keeping calm is crucial, and ignoring as much as humanly possible. Can you put him in pull ups and ignore the subject of potty altogether?

Can you just bathe him when he needs it and ignore the screaming? Keep a smile on your face and hum a tune and act like everything is completely normal. You need to take away the power he's getting from this whole pee issue.

It will pass. Good for you for being able to remain calm, and for taking on a foster kid. Foster kids can be tough.

Eta: Amy, I love you, and I agree with you on so many things. But until you've worked with or had foster kids, which I have and do, you don't understand that they really are different, and you often cannot discipline them the same way as "regular" kids.

4 moms found this helpful
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S.B.

answers from Dallas on

I just said a prayer for you. You have opened your heart and your home to a little boy that really needs help. I don't know if putting him back in pull ups would be more damaging to him, but it might control the mess?? Good luck - I hope you get some good ideas on this peeing/control issue and from the psych evaluation to help him.

4 moms found this helpful

S.T.

answers from Washington DC on

oh, coco, you are such a star.
i have no idea, really. keep calm and clean him up and trust that your calm consistency will pay off, i guess.
you've already worked wonders with this child, so at least you know you CAN make a difference.
so i'm no help, really. i just want to say yet again how awesome i think you are.
khairete
S.

2 moms found this helpful
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G.B.

answers from Oklahoma City on

if you are a regular foster mom and not kindship care for this child please consider having his worker move him to a therapeutic situation. He needs more psychological care in the home than you may have training for.

You are doing a good job with him but he is not adapting well to your home.

IF you are doing a kinship situation then you need to possibly take him to a play therapy place to see what happens when he's playing with toys and his guard is down.

If I was a regular foster parent this child would not be someone I would want in my home. I'd feel bad for him but he isn't a good fit.

1 mom found this helpful
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D..

answers from Miami on

ETA - Well, I just read what Marda said. Forget my advice - I think what she said is much better. He would probably feel that helping wash his clothes was controlling him and would backfire...

Hugs~~~

Original:
So sorry you all are going through this. Has he had other foster families before you? I assume he had a bad homelife at some point with his original family...

It could be that he has feelings of abandonment and he is "punishing" you for these feelings, thinking maybe you'll abandon him too. Will he let you love on him other times, quiet moments with hugs and all that?

I'm sure that the "reason" isn't as important as getting the behavior handled. (I guess I wrote what's above because it was the first thing I was thinking about, smiles...) Do you happen to have him help you wash his clothes? Kind of like kids wetting the bedsheets, getting them to put the clothes in the washer to take some form of ownership of the problem. I don't know that it's a creative idea, so to speak, but maybe he would feel more grown up doing that. I'd just talk or whisper quietly, or maybe sing a gentle song about loving him when you change his clothes and wash him off. I agree totally that you can't just "not" clean him up.

Hoping that you find a real solution...

1 mom found this helpful
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