Am I Beating a Dead Horse? (Warning: May Be Tmi for Some)

I feel the same way about my mom. Sometimes I think that although she loves me, she doesn't like me very much. I keep thinking I've done something wrong but what? What did I do? My sister passed away suddenly and it made it worse but it was bad before this. She started acting this way when my 14 year old brother (he's 20 now) was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and then shortly after she split up with my step-dad. Anyway, I've grieved a little off and on but I try to make the best of it and tried not to take it so personally. I wish you the best!

It's not beating a dead horse... it's tenderizing it to make it more palatable.

Your mom isn't who you want and need and deserve, and for that I'm very sorry. My father wasn't anything I wanted/needed/deserved, either. It can be very hard to say, "Forget you!" but there may always be a part of you that will yearn for what will never be and what never has been.

Keep up your counseling, and lean on people who DO love you and DO care and DO show you how important you are. Don't expect anything from her. Find your validation in yourself and your good friends and your spouse. You know from conversations with SIL that your mom just isn't capable of more. She can talk the talk but not walk the walk. That is HER failing, not yours.

Find a way to let it go, not for her sake, but for yours and your family's. Let it go so YOU can have YOUR life.

You're not an idiot. You've had a very hard time of it. Big hugs to you for what you've gone through. I totally understand what you're going through re. the mom thing. I have given up on mine and no longer consider her as my mother on an emotional level - she has been replaced by my MIL and older sister. She is selfish like yours, has no clue about the devastation she leaves in her wake. (I was in NYC for 9/11 - she called 3 days later cause "she knew I was OK" since I talked to grandma already).

I told my little sis (who's a wreck about it) that we are puppies with a lizard mom. Puppy moms stay with their babies, lick em and love em, etc. Lizard moms lay the eggs and get on with their lives like they didn't have kids. You can't make a lizard be a different kind of mom.

Do what you can to make yourself healthy psychologically - get the help you need, and get the support from other people (hubby, etc.). Give yourself permission to give up on her, to not have a "traditional" relationship with her. It will be tough, but you will feel better in the long run.

I think your counselor is right.
You have needs and wants and expectations that your mother, for whatever reason, cannot or will not ever meet.
I can hear in your words how much it hurts you and I'm truly sorry for you for that.
But, you have to separate those things from the strong, loving, and amazing person that YOU are.

I am SO different with my kids than my mom was with me. She was never one to be outwardly affectionate. She was often extremely critical. All the while, I've loved her as I do because that's the kind of person I am. I wish I felt more adoration from her, received more understanding and sincere concern or interest in what's happening in my life. She just isn't like that.
She never forgets our birthdays, she always sends cards for every holiday including Halloween and St. Patrick's Day. It's not like she doesn't think of us at all, it's just that there is a depth that seems missing to me.
It took me a long time to just realize that there must be things in my mom's life or her childhood or her experiences that made her the way she is. I may never understand it. I doubt she would ever really open up and tell me.

This is what I do.....and it may help you too.
My mom isn't always there in a way that I need her to be. She isn't always supportive. BUT, she gave me life and I am the person I am regardless of whether she's given me what I THOUGHT I needed.
I got so many good things from her. One way or the other, it's largely because of her that I am the loving, silly, affectionate, patient, encouraging and supportive mother that I am to my own children.
If my mom was different, maybe I wouldn't be as sensitive and understanding to my kids as I am.
I'm also pretty tough because of my mom and I can't say I'm sorry for that.
Do I wish my mom was more lovey dovey? Of course I do. But, we can't get something from someone that they don't have to give.
That's not a reflection on us.
You have been through a lot and I know what you mean about wishing you had your mom to lean on more. But, it is what it is and all you can do is move forward and like I said, be there for your own kids in ways your mom hasn't for you.
You are still worthy of self love and taking care of your own emotional needs.
That is something you DO have the power to see to.

I really wish you the best.
Take care of yourself.

Sadly, I think that your counselor is right. For whatever reason, she is incapable of being the person you need her to be. Grieve that, and accept it. She will never be what you need. She will never give you what you need. The mommy you imagine, isn't there, never has been, and never will be. Honestly, it's her loss. She must have her own issues and personality disorder that make her the way that she is. There is something wrong with her and you can't fix it. There is nothing wrong with you. I can't imagine how painful accepting that is, but work with your counselor to grieve your loss and let go.

On the upside, you have obviously managed to become a wonderful, whole, strong, caring, compassionate woman and amazing mother despite having a terrible role model. That you are the way that you in spite of your own mother/daughter relationship is one of the marvels of humanity. My own mother is a wonderful mom and grandmother despite having awful parents. A friend at work and her sister are both wonderful adults even though their mom abandoned them, came back, left again, and is till an alcoholic and addict. Grieve what you didn't get and won't get from here so that you can continue to focus your energies on your daughter, and from healing from your own trauma. I wish you the best as you move forward.

One of my favorite quotations is from Mother Theresa: "I know God won't give me more than I can handle, but I sometimes wish he didn't trust me so much."

Oh, sweetie...
I am so very sorry for you. No advice to offer, just one large, long hug -- and some prayers.
I'm glad you've chosen a wonderful man as a husband and that you've made different choices in parenting than your mom does. Good for you for making your own life better!!

* * HUG * *

I say never give up. Have you tried writing her a letter?

Also keep an open heart, "moms" can be everywhere. Some people are closer to there Aunts or neighbors than they are their moms.

Have you ever asked her about her childhood? Maybe there is something there that is keeping her from getting close to you. I would say the next time I hear her complain about me being a difficult baby I would ask what did she expect? Babies are not easy and she certainly isn't a delight now.

I hope and pray you find what you are looking for.
Hugs.

I know you gotten alot of responses but here is mine:

Obviously you know what it means to be kicked hard by life, repeatedly...I think its time to realize that reality and what you want to be reality are like two parrallel lines, they never intersect. You WANT (and deserve) a mother who shows you compassion, love, respect, concern, etc. The reality is, YOU DO NOT GET TO HAVE THIS, barring extreme change on your mothers part, you never will. A hard pill to swallow I know, but look at it a different way. This can also be very freeing...having zero expectations of someone means they don't get to let you down, they don't control how you feel, they have ZERO impact of how you function in REALITY. You are an amazing woman, strong for her family and for herself. This shines through in every post you write. Focus on your reality, all the great blessings you have, the fact that you KNOW your children and grandchildren will never know these feelings because you are a kind and gentle mama who knows what it means to give unconditional love. YOU ROCK!!!!

I had a very "on again off again" relationship with my father, who left our family of 6 kids when we were all little, meaning I would see him occasionally, did not really depend on him for much but would certainly be in his company a few times a year. This was until I had my own child. At that moment, it became inconceivable to me how a parent could basically abandon and not nurture his child. I understood then that for all practical purposes this man had never been a real father to me, and I cut off all contact with him and moved on. I figure I do not have the emotional energy to deal with his issues, and want to be the best mom to my kids as I can and give the a good male role model (my DH), not a bad one. So no contact at all. That has worked really well for me. My children were never exposed to his horrible personality, and I do not have to pretend he is a real father, harsh, but that is life at times and it is healthiest to move forward and not look back to things that will never be changed. Good luck to you.

K.,

I say this with caring and to the point. Don't mean to be harsh, but if everything you say is true, yes you ARE beating a dead horse, your mother sounds selfish and self centered and you seem to be into a pretty big pity party at a time when your daughter needs a caring and present mother.

My question to you is, what kind of expectations does your pregnant 14 year old have of you and dad? I would suggest that you put your motherly desires into what's happening with your child and how she will face motherhood at such an early age? Will she give the baby up for adoption or will you and husband take on the responsibility? What roll, if any, will the baby's father and his parents play in the child's life.

If you are too depressed over your "lack of a mother", how do you think your pregnant child is feeling?

If you are unable to care for you daughter because of depression and dad isn't up to the task, perhaps you and dad should consider a foster home while you get some help and you and she could have some stability during a very difficult time.

Keep us posted.

Blessings.....

Just because she gave birth to you, do not feel "obligated" to love her, worry for her or need her. Surround yourself with people that will truly love you and know that YOU are what a mother truly is.

I am so sorry for the pain that you are feeling :( UGH!! This is when being a "grown up" sucks...you are allowed your feelings and they are validated, but you still are trying to be "mature and grown up" and not let them affect you (which you cannot help!).
The only thing I can say is that you should wake up and pray that your family is healthy (growing grandchild and all :), and that you are alive, and made it thru the night! What you have been thru takes A LOT of courage, and as you know, things can turn on a dime. Two days after Christmas, my husband went to urgent care with what we thought was extreme dehydration from a case of severe flu...long story short, he was admitted to Intensive Care and put under a medically induced coma and on a ventilator for 6 weeks (he also managed to get an extremely bad case of pneunomia, a blood clot which traveled to his lungs, MRSA staff infection, and a crazy rash which involved many specialists to diagonisis, and lastly, he had to have a tracheostmy). You never know what the day will hold when you wake, but if you do wake up and all your loved ones are accounted for...that is a good start ;)
Hope this is finding you strong and content.
p.s. some women are just not meant to be mothers...just because they gave birth does not mean they have that "mommy gene". It is not you, it is her. She may realize it someday, but I would hate for you to go on waiting for that "day", you need to live your life and enjoy, well, just LIFE with what you have. Your mom will deal with it when she slows down from work and life and realizes what she has done. Hopefully she will have a loving daughter who forgives her and understands that some women are not programed that way.
xoxo

Oh, K., I so know what you are talking about. For whatever reasons, my mom is in many ways similar to yours (minus the irony of being a counselor, though she can be quite a preacher of 'the gospel according to her').

It is sad that you will never get the childhood you needed from your mom. Does that mean you don't still need that? No, you'll probably always feel that need in some way. (Sigh.) And not all needs can be met, no matter how legitimate they are. Or at least, they can not be met in the way we picture needing them met.

Your mother has something about her that is different than you. Without attaching blame to it (because the possibility exists that your mother is blameless – but that's something you may need years to discover), let's just say she's 'color-blind' to affection. She can't see that color, and doesn't know it's missing. She can't comprehend what "affection" or "nurture" mean to you, because she has no experience with those needs. Or at least, not in the same way you do. All the wishing in the world won't give her your understanding of those concepts.

Forgiveness is important – for you, whether or not your mom ever feels a need for your forgiveness. But forgiveness means "letting go of the hope for a better past." And that's huge, for almost all of us. As long as that impossible desire to redo the past has a hold on you, there are parts of you that will never be able to grow up, move forward, take possession of your own one, singular life.

I'm so deeply sorry for all you have experienced. Keep up the counseling. Come at healing from every angle open to you. Don't be afraid to explore alternative therapies (for example, investigate EMDR and EFT; visit www.theWork.com; keep a journal, write poetry, ask others what has been helpful for them).

I was an extremely dysfunctional young woman by the time I left my mother's home. I'm 63 now, and still learning, still healing. But as a 'wounded healer,' my life has taken on meaning and usefulness to others that may never have happened if my childhood had been easier or more satisfying. Everything has a silver lining, if you're open to it.

I wish you the best.

Every time you feel sad about it, look in the mirror and say SHE is the one that missed out, NOT ME! over and over. She wasn't a mom to you. You do yearn for a mom and you did deserve one, but she wasn't there. You tell yourself that she missed out on you, an awesome person. You tell yourself that until you feel better, more confident. I'm sorry you had to go through that, I've seen many of my friends go through it with their dads and I was never close with my hands-off parents either. Lots of hugs :)

I understand the whole deal with your grandpa, my dad is like that. He loves my daughter, but he wasn't a hands-on dad... he'd just yell or ignore us.

My father is somewhat like this too. His mother was very cold to him and I finally realized that this was all he knew. Sure, I wish we had a daddy daughter relationship but I know we never will. I think we are as close as we'll get. He never gives a strait answer, so I've learned not to expect one from him. I've learned not to expect anything different than what he shows already. He will sometimes surprise us and show us more. I know he loves all of us but just has a hard time showing and expressing it.

I was 18 the first time I heard him tell me he loved me and that was only because I had told him first. I still remember his stunned reaction when I said that to him. When I see him we will hug each other and tell each other we love each other, but it isn't the closeness that a lot of daughters and fathers have. But, it is, what it is.

I get closure in knowing that I will be a different kind of parent and our daughter will have what I didn't have with my husband who is an incredible loving man. I think if you just realize and accept that your mother will never be what you want her to be and that YOU can be different than her, should be the closure you need. If you have siblings to talk to that really helps out a lot too! You just need to accept what reality is telling you and yes, your counselor is right.

On another note, can't you still press charges on that creep?!! He did a horrible thing and should be put away so he can't do that to anyone else!

Take care of yourself!

Dealing with relationships that are not the way we like them to be is part of adulthood. You will need to find another way to deal with your mother. Would you choose her as a friend if she were not your mom? You need to seek out other friends. I have had my issues with my own mom and have sought out other women as friends who have children closer to my age then my kids as a way to replace that lost relationship. I have to agree with the counselor about your mom however I feel your pain and hope you find ways to deal.
J. O

I don't know you-but I wish I did. the woman who gave birth to you-I could not even to begin to call her a mother-a cat is a better mother-is emotionally bankrupt. She is ill and a devoid.

Imagine walking in a room-and facing your mother-tell her she is nothing to you-say good bye-walk out-shut the door -walk down the hallway-and turn the corner. Don't look back-complete strangers have more compassion for you-I love hearing that you are a good mom, determined to be a loving mother for your children and not at all like her-Do you even get how strong you are? I am praying for you, Sweetheart, be strong-and don't take any hurt from anybody ever again.

Ya know, I went through something similar with my M. not too long ago. She lives in Fl, me in NJ. She hadn't seen my son since his 1st b-day and he is now 3. We talk maybe 1 time every other month and really the only reason she knew of anything in my life was through facebook. When I told her I was pregnant with our 2nd, she said "don't you know how to prevent that" Not congratulations, how exciting, i'm happy for you (since she knew I wanted another baby). She also dodged every invite I extended to her and told her me that she is "just not a kid person" basically telling me she did want to come and see us because we have a "kid". Meanwhile, its her grandchild!!!
So, I know where you are coming from in that aspect. Honestly, the best you can do is just to forget it. Its hurts and it sucks, but if you no longer expect things from her, she can no longer hurt you. It is her loss not to be there for you and to miss out on the things going on in your life. You just have to remind yourself of that. You can't make her care, or be there, or be the M. you need her to be. So you just have to accept that she's not. I deleted my M. as a friend on facebook and now, she only knows of things if she calls. I stopped calling her. She has made a few attempts, so maybe she really does care : /
I am sorry you have had such a rough year. Us M. are here for you whenever you need!

.

I feel for you because I also need my mommy!! I grew up in a very dysfunctional family that just told me how everything I did was so stupid and I would have done anything to gain their acceptance but it never happened. My kids even say that they are really surprised to see how dysfunctional I few up.

I can tell you how I learned that it was never going to happen and accepted it. I stepped back and began to look at the entire picture. I saw the pattern the formed and they are all victims. My mom was never loved by her mother and her mother was never loved by her mother. That is as far as I knew of this first hand. My sister was very spoiled with material things by my mother so my mother did not have to deal with her. I was never loved and grew up a very sad and needy person. My husband took the brunt of this when we first got married because I knew no other way to act except the way I was taught. I began to see things in a whole different light and changed my way of thinking. I realized that I was never going to change the past and I am never going to be accepted so the best option for me was to make myself strong. I began to read self-help books and decided that I was going to be happy and have lots of friends!! I was going to make the future bright for my family and I. I was going to break the cycle of unhappiness. I love my kids and will do whatever it takes to help them succeed. Things happen for a reason!! You are far away from your mother and her harmful behavior and this should make you smile. (Believe me, not having that dysfunction in your back yard is a blessing!) It is hard because a mother/daughter bond is very important and to admit that is not ever going to happen takes a very strong person. My brother and my dad are very wonderful men and I miss them tremendously. I have talked with my brother and told him that I don't need that extra drama in my life so there is not a chance that I am going to move into the state with them. I do know that my grandfather (my mother's father) loved me lots and talked about me very highly to other people and my mother did not like this. In her eyes it took away from his love for her but my grandfather was a wonderful man who had plenty of love for everyone. I think your mother thrives on the fact of knowing that you are sad. I know mine does!! Be happy and strong and realize that your family needs a strong leader.

I just wanted to tell you that my mom is very much not a lovey touchy huggy mom either and that it has been difficult for me growing up. Recently I went through a tough situation, just a lot of stress all at once, what really helped was telling my mom precisely what I needed from her, and when I told her what I needed she came through...my mom will never be one to tell me she loves me spontaneously and even getting her to give me a hug is difficult...but you have to accept her for who she is, she does care, it is just different people express things differently. Be the best mom you can be ( which it sounds like you are) and maybe tell your mom that you wish you two could be closer. Maybe try to find a common interest to start with, I know I have gone out of my way to read books that my mom has read Just so we had something to talk about! = ) Lots of luck, it is not you...it is just her, and the sooner you accept who she is the happier you will be.

Hi K.,
I am so sorry what happened to you. I am very happy you know it wasn't your fault.
I don't know what to say about your mom, is hard to believe that there are moms out there that just don't have that bound or need to demonstrate love to their kids but I know it happens.
It happened to my mom too. My grandma was so nice with me, she readme books, dress me like a doll, bake, etc. All those things she never did for my mom. She was a good mom to her youngest daughter but very cold and distant to the rest.
Maybe she was like that because she was married to a men that treat her bad and she grow these feelings against her own kids because they were also his kids, or because she resent his kids for not be able to leave, or maybe because her mom was 10 times worst and she thought she was better just because she didn't leave them and she stay with her husband because of them, I don't know.
But I know that it hurt my mother a lot and unfortunately they could never fix their relationship and we (my mom and I) move away from her and she died when we were gone.
My mom is a great mom, and she used that as her medicine. I know she use her bad childhood as to what NOT to do. My aunt (my grandma's only loved child) is so different then my mom, I know my mom is what she is because of her mom, and I am so proud that she used that sad experience and turn it around in to something positive.
After my grandma die, our family told us that her mom looked for her everywhere, she also let my mom a piece of land, I want to believe that in a way she did care for her...at least on her last days.
I don't think your mom is going to change, and I think you know too. You can keep try to make her be what you want or you can try to find the good on her (for your good more then for hers) and accept who she is. I don't know her or your childhood but is a fact that she bring you to this word, she kept you, and you (like my mom) become great moms knowing what is like to be like her. People learn from mistakes they do or mistakes others do.
warm hugs to you.

I think you answered all of your questions in your "question." One of the hardest things in life is our ability to predict or control anyone's response but our own.

I actually don't think it is so ironic that your mother is a pHd counselor. The field often attracts those in need of seeking their own healing. (Ask me how I know this, lol). It doesn't however mean we all succeed or to fit another's definition of healed.

You certainly have been through a great deal, haven't you? I wish I could wave the magic wand and give you the mother you need. We both know that is impossible and what your counselor has said regarding your expectations is true. Bur you can find ways to be tender to yourself and nurture your soul. It would be more sincere than what you described you mother's capable of anyway. Best wishes.

I am so very sorry for all that you are going through--it sounds like a lot for anyone to deal with at once. As for your mother, my relationship with my father is similar. Finally, I did have to accept that he was never going to change. Nothing I could do would change his behavior. Then I had to decide whether I could have a relationship with him based on who he actually is or if I would rather NOT have any relationship with him at all. Nothing you do will make her come to her senses and change. You could cry and scream and pour your heart out; she will not care. It's not that you should "suck it up and deal." It's a loss and you will have to grieve that, but expecting that she will somehow change and be the mother you want is too hard on you. You have to take care of yourself and your kids, and the only way to do that is to stop worrying about her. I don't know if there is anyone in your life that you can look to as a sort of mother figure--one of your husband's realtives or an aunt or even an older woman in your church or at work, maybe one of your close friends' mothers. Maybe someone else to fill that role in your life would help. Of course it won't be the same as your mother, but if you can find other people to fulfill the needs/roles that she doesn't fulfill, then maybe you won't fell you need her as much.

What you are describing kinda reminds me of something I read in a book about dealing with toxic parents. Specifically daughters of narcissistic mothers. You might want to check out some books on the subject to see if they are applicable.

My father is very toxic so I cut off all contact with him as an adult. Sometimes I'm sad and even envious that I don't have a dad like those around me. I don't think that feeling will every totally go away but I try to focus on the good things and people I do have in my life.

Good luck and God bless.

I'm not a health care professional, but I'm wondering if your mom might be slightly autistic herself. Does she have ANY close relationships? You didn't mention your father, is she still with him? This might give you some insight into her. She might not be selfish, just incapable of making any connection. To be a councelor, you don't have to make a connection, in fact, you need to stay disconnected to give them an outlet that doesn't judge.
You might set up a weekly call with her (or monthly), at a time when you both can talk, that way you can know you can connect. As for her not responding to your situations, it's not easy to know what to say, especially when you first hear about something, then you feel it's too late.
I agree you need to focus on your daughter and how to guide her through this very delicate time in her life. I hope you don't make her feel like you are so focused on trying to get a relationship with your mother that she has gone by the wayside, does it really matter what your mother says or thinks at this point? I agree you need to get past this.

She will never change - only thing you can do is completely cut her from your life. You may not find a Mother alternative... but I would consider continuing therapy and maybe include your husband in it as well - once you've gotten to a certain level for yourself.

Her having a PhD in Counseling isnt ironic AT ALL! Most people who go into therapy or counseling is because they want to reach out and help others who have gone through what they have. I agree with your counselor, you are going to have to 'forgive' her for not being the mother you needed or need. I love Maya Angelous definition of forgivess, its something along the lines of.....forgiveness if letting go of the HOPE, that the past ould have been any different. Let that resonate in your heart and move forward and BE the Mom you always desired...and guess what...THAT may not be the mom your daughter longed for either. Its life, you're not perfect, your mom isnt perfect (though it sounds like she could care less, you dont need that in your life whether shes your mom, sister etc)

You want your Mom to be someone other than who she is. She is not going to change no matter how much you want her to. You want her to react to you. And she treats you like a patient - with clinical detachment - which doesn't make you happy at all. She's there for you. She's just not reacting the way you want her to.
Some people are just very low on drama. How would her weeping and wailing and tearing her hair out over your troubles make you feel better?
Do you feel it would lesson the emotional burden on you somehow if more people wept on your behalf? I think some group therapy might really help.
About the only thing you can do is to examine why you need her reaction so badly. If you find you still need mothering in a way that she can't provide for you, you are going to have to get it from somewhere else.