Being Called "Man"

it's awfully nasty, and i'd be looking for appropriate responses.
but i agree with you that it's not violent. we've become too quick to classify things as 'violence' and 'bullying' and 'harassment.'
what's the school's policy on verbal harassment? that's the direction i'd look.
khairete
S.

So... Let me get this straight... Someone stated a fact(albeit rudely and unnecessarily), and that's violence? Good grief, political correctness has run amuck in an even more extraordinary fashion than I previously believed. There comes a point that people need to suck it up and move on, we are all spoken to unkindly at some point, but it's not an actionable offense...

Hurt feelings are not violence. When they are, then free speech will no longer be allowed.

You're ugly. Wanna call the cops?

This wasn't bullying, hazing or violence.

It was an observation. It might not have been nice, but it's a true observation. He is, according to his anatomy, a man.

While the observer could have been more kind, the fact is that we cannot control everyone around us. Perhaps it would be smarter, instead of trying to punish the person who made the observation, to talk about ways to respond appropriately to those observations. How can the person who made the observation be kindly and respectfully educated so as not to bring further ire onto the LGBT community?

ETA: To be clear, when I say "how could the person who made the observation be kindly and respectfully educated," I do not mean that you write a handbook or make him attend a class. I mean that the transexual individual should know what to say in response at that moment. In the military we call it an "On the spot correction." Educate the person respectfully and kindly right there, immediately. No snide comebacks, just a simple response that makes the situation clear to the person who doesn't appear to know better.

Please remind your fellow advisors that when they apply exaggerated terms to insults, they cheapen the real instances where there is violence.

No, of course it's not violent.

I completely support transgender people, 'cause I don't care what body someone chooses to live in, but that trans student needs to get a little backbone. It won't be the last time he/she hears a hateful remark.

Yup -- per Theresa -- "sticks and stones...etc."

The campus, must have some sort of "school handbook" with its rules/regulations/student conduct in it?
Since this is a "club" on campus and is part of the school, probably all those same rules apply, to the club also.

Things like this, is sad.
Meaning, this type of thing will probably happen again.
To him.
To you.
But you are not an "Attorney" who can then fathom the legalities of it, nor how to perfectly... word things, for him... so that he does not get madder. About being called "a man."

No, this was not a violent act.
And that woman/man, better grow up.
It is, not even name calling. I mean, that spectator, just loudly blurted out "your'e a man!" And he is or was.

It cannot be expected, that all of society never ever refers to him as a "man."
And if society is expected to perfectly know what he is despite how he looks, then he will be sorely disappointed. Again. This is life.
If he looks like a man, then anyone will think he is, a man.

violent no, however, stupid yes, and not the most sensitive.

Does the campus have a newsletter? if so.. then maybe an article in the paper about sensitivity to others might be a could idea..

Does the school have a bully / hazing policy?
What does it say?
Verbal harassment might qualify as bullying, but I think 'violence' is usually considered to be a physical thing - some contact was made, someone got hit/kicked or something was thrown, etc.

I spoke with our daughter. She graduated with quite a few people that are Transgender and identify in different ways. Her college campus is very clear that the way people identify should be honored at all times, with respect. Here was what she had to say.

"I agree that it is violence
it counts as violence against the student
because it is like
rejecting that student's identity
and putting putting them in a bad mental state/opening them up for further ridicule. "

"i suppose you could argue it WASNT "violence" in the way it wasn't a physical attack
but not all violence has to be physical
so i don't think i can provide verbiage for that person"
_________________________________________________________
Ronda I do not feel it was violent, but it was not appropriate and this person that yelled this out needs to be spoken to about appropriate behaviors and respecting other peoples privacy.

Maybe give them a warning that if this behavior happens again they will have in school suspension and will not get credit for that days classwork.

I would also inform them, if they were working, the employer could terminate them for this behavior.

This young "man" better get used to it. Punishing the other kid is not going to fix this. It will, however, piss off the kids and they will pay him/her back in spades.

Instead of punishing this kid, have someone on the faculty WHO HE RESPECTS, perhaps a favorite teacher, give him sensitivity training. That would be SO much better than making him hate this kid for getting him punished.

It is ridiculous to expect kids this age to actually understand the very complicated reality of transsexuality. TEACH the faculty this. I'm sure this is part of your job.

Sounds like free speech to me. Unless there is more to the story.

Many women get call a lot worse in college. I will not list all the words, but this wishful female is in for a rude awaking. Women who bleach their hair will get yell at "Pull your pants down b&*ch, and prove your a real blond" Yes, rude (also it was said by a jealous female because the blond got her man).

Often the person does not look enough like a female and my four year old will still say 'he' to the person trying to be a lady. It is not something I explained. For some reason small kids just know. Just like the know little people are adults not children.

I would think that the school with have a definition of "violence" in the code of conduct. Violence is usually defined as a physical force meant to cause harm. Simply name calling in and of itself is not an act of violence. Name calling may CAUSE a violent reaction, but simply saying "You're a man!" is not a violent act.

Violence? "I don't think that word means what they think it means."

No, it isn't violence and it isn't bullying. Saying something non-threatening one time - especially since this almost sounds like it was a passing remark - does not qualify as bullying. The other student did not threaten, physically or verbally, to harm the transsexual student. In addition, unless the transsexual student has undergone a 100% physical and hormonal transformation, she technically/medically IS a man, at least in some ways. So the other student could argue that he was just stating a fact or telling the truth.

One thing to discuss when you're talking with the other advisers is that, while society is starting to become more accepting of gay people, most still have a much harder time understanding (and therefore accepting) transsexuals. This student needs to come to expect comments like that and simply come up with a phrase that she is comfortable saying back. It can be short and simple, like "not anymore" or it can be a little longer and slightly explaining "I never felt like a man on the inside and now I'm not a man on the outside either."

We need to reserve words like violence and bullying for a time when we are truly in danger. This is a case of name calling. Is it right? No. Should the other student be punished? No. We cannot punish people every time they say one thing that they shouldn't.

I agree with what Nervy Girl said about the possibility of bringing more attention to the student's trans status if there is a push to punish the offender for 'violence' (probably not her desired outcome). I also agree that it's a stretch to call those specific words 'violent.' It does seem s/he intended to cause hurt through speech, and therefore s/he needs some education on appropriate behaviors in a community.

Good luck with the conversations!

Is it true? If it is, then nothing was wrong with it. It isn't libel nor slander. Transexuals make this choice to appear as the opposite sex of their physical identity. If they are called out on it - that my friend is called 'freedom of speech'. The 1st Amendment is hard to fight.

Being a LGBT is a tough life. By demanding that this person be punished only reduces their plight. Just because they don't want to be outed doesn't mean others have to adhere to their wishes.

Plus, I think your friends @ the GSA need to read a dictionary on the term 'violence'.

I would simply ask them to connect the dots. How is that actually violent? It is an opinion and if you expect people to respect your opinion you need to do so as well.

You push, especially in an irrational manner, like saying words equal violence, you can expect an equal or greater push back. In other words their action, and not the person's words, will create violence against this person and others in their community. If they want to go ahead fine, but they need to own their part in the dance. Don't force people to hate your lifestyle by attacking theirs as wrong and they cry see they hate.

It is sort of what you see here sometimes, someone gets their knickers in a twist over someone's opinion and adds and over the top, flaming, what happened and then says see you proved my point. Unless their point is two wrongs do not make a right, no point was made.

Sounds like hair splitting to me, really...violence...bullying...harassment...borderline hate crime...take your pick.
Who "innocently" screams "you're a man!" At a preoperative transsexual?
To be an advisor, surely you have SOME expertise or resources available to you?

I'm positive this transgender has heard worse than being called a 'man'. If the name caller really wanted to hurt this transgender, there are much worse names to be said, if he really wanted. I bet these kids have a beef with each other.

I don't think it's VIOLENCE per se, but it's bullying. And that's a bad thing. I personally would be more concerned about stopping the bullying than about the semantics used to label the bullying.

It could have been a silly outcry when someone realized this person was of the male gender.

I am sure the person who was outed can expect this for years to come. Our society still has a long ways to go before everyone readily accepts those who feel different than their body's parts say they are.

This could give this student the opportunity to observe their manner of dress, mannerisms, hairstyle, etc....that gave themselves away. Many times I wonder about a person I see, it's human nature to put people in nice comfortable categories, and I simply wonder if they are a cross dresser, in the wrong gender body, or other if they don't fit the generally accepted stereotypes.

One of my friends from long ago was a cross dresser, he was not gay nor did he want to be feminine, he simply loved the feel of women's clothes against his body. He was absolutely wonderful in bed and was very much "the man".

He made the most beautiful woman you could imagine. Something between the gorgeous girl next door and Barbie. He was amazing when he dressed up. I couldn't tell he was not a perfect woman.

He married a gorgeous woman and they have a really nice family now.

So, again, it's up to the person doing the "different" thing to realize they can be found out at any time. It's hard but they do have a lot to deal with their entire life. I wish this student that was found out didn't have to go through this.

On the other hand, if this student that was found out has been having issues in the past with this person that blurted out their secret and a pattern can be proven they perhaps have a case of harassment. They could have threatened them with telling if they didn't do something for them, this person could have previously done any number of things to this person who was hiding their birth gender.

I feel that in that case there would be a plain, easy to follow, interaction trail between them. IF the other person was malicious in their intent then it's a different scenario. If the simply made an spur of the moment utterance then they are not guilty of any sort of wrong doing. The person who was found out just got caught. They can move forward and see how they are accepted or they can deny the allegation, or they can ask to have their transcript forwarded to a more liberal university where they can blend in more readily.