"Carrying" a Marriage

R.,

No. This isn't right or correct.

You BOTH need to learn how to work together and COMMUNICATE.

Marriage counseling - joint and single - you need to learn how to stand up for yourself (you seem to be doing it but I don't know). You don't "accept" this - unless **THIS** is how you want to live the rest of your life. If not? Don't "accept" this.

You can and should get a marriage YOU like too!! :)

The way that your husband deals with anger bothers me a great deal. Your husband doesn't seem to know how to deal with a disagreement, and that is very upsetting. You might need to try talking to a counselor about this one, but I do have one thought that might help.

You said that he won't deal with the issue unless you force him to. What if you just decided that the issue didn't need to be dealt with? Now that's not going to work for everything. We can't just avoid everything that we disagree on. But what if you decided that if it's his issue, it's his issue. Let's say he was upset about something that didn't bother you at all. So ... let him be upset about it. Just put on a smile and treat him as though nothing was wrong and just go about your day. If he sees it's not bothering you, he just might decide to quite being a little, bitty baby about it.

I'm jsut wondering what his payoff is. Right now he knows that you will pursue it. You will do whatever it takes to get the situation resolved. I wonder if he's feeding off that attention you give him. Maybe it makes him feel in control. He might feel as though he has all the power. I think by always trying to have resolution, you are feeding in to his need for control. Not everything needs resolution, and if you can work towards letting go of some (if not many) of these things, he will realize that he's not getting the same payoff and start treating you differently.

Date nights, together time, intimacy ... that isn't quite fair to always put on you. At the same time, that's a little bit how many guys are. My husband almost never arranges for a date. I feel like I can tell when it's time for the two of us to connect (not with sex, but with a date), and I've learned that he doens't always notice. That's not to say that he doesn't enjoy date night or appreciate later how much it helps both of us and our marriage. It's just not on his radar. It's not always fair, but there are many, many things that he "takes care of" in our marriage, so I try to remind myself of the things that I probably take for granted.

My husband's parents fought and argued - and never resolved anything. I see you have negative in-laws, so maybe this is what they modeled for your husband too. It really sucks if that's what your husband observed growing up. I don't know if that's the case - but I didn't understand why my husband avoided discussions. He hates conflict. No wonder.

We went to marriage counseling early on. I had to teach him (over and over) how I wanted to be treated, how to communicate, etc. Don't assume he knows. It doesn't take a month or two.

We agreed how to argue. I know that sounds weird, but my husband needs space if he gets upset. So he will walk away if he gets upset. So long as we can talk whenever - sometimes it's the next day - fine. I had to ask for that - he didn't know that's what I would want. He didn't get it. His parents could be resentful for weeks. So have a plan - and stick to it. Now it's second nature. But early on, we hashed this out.

Remember - you can't change him (you're right on that) but you teach people - including husbands! - how to treat you. That's ongoing. People change throughout marriages and we do - we're continuously changing - so you have to keep teaching.

I would just let go of your expectations of him to be an equal in his interests in some aspects of the marriage. Think of how men are with their other relationships - they don't put time or effort into their friendships like we do, or relationships with their families, etc. They just are wired so differently - to take that personally is pointless. So that I let go years ago.

As for initiating stuff - I would stop doing it all - take a break - focus on you (do what makes you happy, own that) and I bet he'll notice you and put effort in. Tell him what you want. Be specific. Some men are utterly clueless.

If after you've been utterly clear - and he still doesn't bother - then I think this will be easier for you to know what to do. If he doesn't want to do more counseling, I personally think counseling just for you (even a few sessions) would be helpful. Best to you

time for the old ann landers question.

are you better off with our without him?

i myself would vastly prefer blessed solitude to living like this. YMMV.

ETA brilliant answer from margie.
khairete
S.

I agree with you that you cannot change another person. You can change your response to the other person, and you can change your circumstances. But you can't change him.

With this in mind, I think you should talk with a therapist to very specifically work out what you want from life. Is this it? Or do you want to try different ways to respond to his cold shoulder? Only you can decide.

He sounds lazy, to be honest. I think Gamma makes some good points about going out and doing things for yourself and finding your own happiness. You can't make him do better. So focus on you. Plan a dinner/movie night with your friends instead of him. Go out in the world and pursue your interests. Maybe it will inspire him if he sees you're out having fun. I'd do that for awhile and see if he steps up on his own, if you've been doing everything for a long time. If he doesn't, you have to decide if you can accept him as he is, or move on, on your own

I know there have been many times during my 25 year marriage, that I've carried the weight and I knew it was going to happen because he was deployed for months. This sounds different to me.

I would tell my husband that 20 years is long enough. He needs to get some skin in the game and start communicating. Tell him he needs to attend counseling with you so that you two can communicate effectively and deal with issues as they arise. If he doesn't go? Go yourself. And find out if this is how you want to spend the next 20 years. I'm not a proponent of divorce, however, this is not how I'd want to live.

I think in a lot of marriages the wife does all the emotional work...I seem some of this with my husband. He doesn't ever bring up emotional stuff or difficulties in our marriage. It's like he doesn't really even see them or spend any time thinking about it. I see this as not being right but it's pretty normal. It's really frustrating and tiring. The way your husband handles anger or an argument is really wrong though. Because of this I really think you should do marriage counseling for a while. It's worth a try. Maybe it will help him to understand how immature he is being and how bad that is for your relationship. My father in law was like your husband and he and my mother in law did not have a close relationship. She did ALL the work for the family all the time. Once all their kids went off to college she ended up getting this amazing job opportunity working in another state and she took it! They made it clear they were not splitting up. She rented her own condo, furnished it, bought new clothes, decorations she liked, made new friends and became close to work colleagues and had her own life. For the first time ever I saw her being happy and more like her true self. They would visit each other about twice a month. My father in law suddenly started appreciating her a LOT more. She did this job for about 10 yrs till she retired. They became a lot closer and their marriage was better after this. I'm not saying you should stay married...I don't know the answer. Good luck.

Go to some more marriage counseling.
A couple sessions isn't enough to make a lasting change.
I think it needs to be ongoing for awhile - quite awhile - maybe a year or more.
Maybe go to a few sessions on your own too.

You need to remember why you fell in love with him in the first place.
And then you need to figure out what you want with the rest of your life.
It sounds like it's a chore being married to him - he doesn't care about making you happy.

If you left him - you wouldn't have to waste energy on trying to get some/any reciprocation back from him - which might be a relief.
You may or may not find someone else.

I don't know if this will help because I don't know what you have tired or for how long but I will tell you my story. Counseling is a great step and it seems you have given it a go a time or two, you might consider it again. It defiantly helped us. But on to the other issue, my husband and I spent years thinking about what we thought the other person should be doing for us, which seems to be the point of what you are saying. I decided at one point to stop thinking about what he should be doing for me and instead focus on what I could do to make him happy. I started doing little things that didn't hurt me at all and made him happier, like picking up his favorite foods, having more sex and being more experimental in the bedroom, planning outings, ect. And you know what happened? As he became happier and more content in our relationship and in his life he just automatically started doing more things to make me happier as well, because when we are truly happy we want those close to us to feel the same. He started doing little things like sending me away for a bath when it was time for dishes and doing them himself, buying me flowers for no reason, planning more outings, ect. That along with the counseling helping us learn to communicate better and listen without judgement has made all the difference in our relationship. In 2010 we had divorce papers filled out, now we are happier then we have ever been.

It sounds like the counseling wasn’t long enough or that you did not complete the course. You also don't disclose what you learned about your marriage and each other (which I understand is personal and private) which may factor into what you are dealing with right now.
Successful counseling requires you to learn tools to change your behavior and then offers support while you learn to use those tools. This is why therapist sometimes recommend only coming to see them once a month or once every two months. It allows the couple to use the new communication tools with each other in real life, and the monthly counseling sessions allow the couple a safe place to discuss if the tools are working or not. Sometimes they don’t and the couple has to ‘go back to the drawing board’ and increase the frequency of appointments to find new tools to try. Or sometimes the tools do work and the appointments just happen a few times a year to “check in”.
Twenty years is a long time to be married. It sounds like you both have grown as individuals, but not as a couple. Seems to me it would be worth a shot to try to build a bridge back to each other, but your going to need professional help to figure out how.

You both need to enter marriage counseling. It sounds to me like perhaps his mind is elsewhere, maybe work, maybe he has other issues going on, or he's the kind of person that likes to ignore problems and hope they go away, rather than confronting them, or having someone else deal with things. Some people just hate conflict and run away from it. Maybe he just doesn't know how to communicate, and assumes that if he has nothing to say, you will take that as your cue to do as you please, or that he agrees with you. Maybe it's his way of being passive-aggressive, and heck, may not realize it is coming off the wrong way to you. It could even be a case of a mental disorder, where he forgets things or is scatterbrained (ADD).

If you both love each other and want to make it work, and honestly, throwing away a 20-year-marriage over something so petty would be silly, then I would suggest counseling and some date nights alone to work on bringing some romance to your marriage. I don't see the harm in getting your own hobbies and friends as some suggested. Maybe once he realizes you're pulling away, it will make him realize something is going on and he'll want to talk, or be included on the outings, rather than sitting home alone. If not, at least you made some new friends, have a purpose in life and have fun without depending on him. '

Some people are just very independent. I have some female friends who only spend weekends with their boyfriends, and they spend weekdays with other women or people of both genders attending movies or having book club meetings, which their boyfriends don't really care for, or they are busy with work or spending time with their own friends. They have been together for decades and both are happy and in love. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, I guess.

Maybe you both need some space, and then come back together strong. I can't tell you what to do or what would work in your marriage as I don't know him and if he's the type of person who is more traditional and controlling, expecting the wife home all the time and cooking a fresh dinner, doing all chores, and would flip out if you assert yourself, making your marital problems even worse. For some people, it works, for others, it's a divorce waiting to happen. After counseling and seeing whether or not he wants to fix things or if he couldn't care less if you decided to leave, you can decide whether divorce is the only option or not.

If your kids are close to finishing high school, hang on until they are done. Make sure you have seen a good divorce lawyer, have all your ducks together, and then leave him. Life is too short to live with someone who really doesn't actually love you. This is why he does this. He doesn't love you.

If your kids are young teens, you will have to decide if you are willing to go through so many more years of this.

Lastly, if you do decide to divorce, don't "ask" for a divorce. Serve him with papers. No discussion. He won't deserve a discussion. He never wanted one anyway, as he has made clear for years...

I will tell you that living out in the world on your own can be wonderful if you have enough money and the things you need to get by. If you don't make enough to fully support yourself in the lifestyle you like then consider that.

My husband is similar in attitude. He thinks we're fine and he's not that into talking or anything. He wants me to be independent and not bother him with some things.

Recently I decided that I was going to make changes in myself. I started going to a weekly bible study program and to a weekly book study group. I started visiting other churches and have found some where I like the preaching styles and the praise and worship music.

I am gone most every evening of the week doing something for myself. I go to the Y and work out, take a shower, and grab something to eat on my own.

I have basically left him at home to deal with home. I am starting to enjoy life and almost feel like my old self, the person I was before I met my husband.

Do I want a divorce? Not even. I like have the stability of marriage and a house and things that I've worked hard to obtain. I like having the ability to let the kids enroll in extra activities and that they can have pretty much anything they need. A few wants get done too.

If I were single I'd have to pay all my own bills and then try to explain to the kids why they don't get to play sports or do dance or go out for baseball anymore.

There are pros and cons to being married and being single. Being married at least you get to have sex that's familiar and safe.

Just stop counting on his to be your partner. Be your own partner and go live life. Let him stay home and feed the kids, clean the kitchen, and figure out who needs to be where.

Go life life and have some fun. Become yourself again, the woman he fell in love with, before you became Mrs. Someone and so and so's mother.