Dilemma... - El Segundo,CA

My aunt and uncle are in this situation. He is from Italy, she is from the US. They were going back and forth for years, spending a year here and a year there. Then my aunt got leukemia and they finally just settled down here. For him, it was that he wanted to be close with family and friends. His mom was coming over here for 3 months every year since my aunt got sick, but now she is a little over 90 and doesn't want to/can't travel anymore.

Tough situations!

Hi Beth,

I am married to a man from Belgium, and I lived there for a while with my (then) 6 year old daughter. I know what you mean about feeling cut off from the US and family. I made some wonderful friends there (a woman from Madrid who was in the same boat as me lol--we were freezing our rear ends off and very sad. We bonded in the Carrefour market...but I digress...)

We are now here in California, in my hometown, but it wasn't a question of me "winning that battle" or anything. My husband got a job that he loves, and that pays well...better than Belgium...plus he loves the weather.

Here are a few options you guys might want to discuss: would you be open to living somewhere besides Amsterdam for a few years, to compromise? Maybe you could get warmth and lifestyle, he could get a job he likes while still being in Europe, and your child will grow up bilingual?

If you pick a place that has some English speakers, and maybe a part time job for you, to feel connected, you might actually enjoy it. I made some great friends living in Europe, and having kids makes it even easier to connect...

Does your husband not like the US or does he just not like his job? I know my husband HAS to live around some Europeans...he feels too alienated otherwise. Could you possibly move to a city here in the US where there might be a small community of Dutch people so he doesn't feel so alone? Here in Pleasanton where I live we have Dutch and French friends, but no Belgians : )

I guess what it comes down to is that you both have to want to be together, no matter what. Everything else will sort itself out. I moved to Belgium initially but due to legal and financial considerations had to come back to the States. Prior to that though we had discussed living in France because I didn't really care for Belgium.

Sorry if this is long...I hope things go well for you guys and that you come up with something that pleases everybody...

I too am a California Girl born and bred - lived in San Diego, LA and SFO. However, you may not like what I'm going to say - you can take it or leave it. To me it sounds like this is all about you and YOUR considerations, wants, demands....desires....you aren't really considering his - you are simply stating "it's too hard" (it's whining in my ears!!)

I've lived in Europe too - Germany and Belgium and visited Amsterdam many times! LOVED IT!!! Learning Dutch isn't easy - but then again - nothing worthwhile ever is. However, Dutch people are VERY happy to help those who want to learn and to top it off - the Dutch language (not the Flanders Dutch) has a lot of English words.

In your own words you enjoyed living aboard!! NOW?! You are ALREADY convinced that you won't enjoy it. Negativity gets negative results. Think happy thoughts- think promising future....it will happen.

You sound to me like you are digging your heels in and not opening yourself up to the possibility of life with him....it's your way or no way.

I can understand YOUR frustration about being away from family - been there - done that. I can understand HIS frustration about having a job that is not in his chosen career field - he's TRYING - you are not - in my opinion. This isn't a pity party. Get off the pot. You made a decision to have a baby with this man - HE is your family now!

You are expecting someone else to drop trow for you - he did. He's given it a try. You aren't doing anything but bemoaning the fact that you would have to leave YOUR family - didn't he do this for you?!

In Amsterdam - you are kidding yourself if you are going to be sitting at home all day with the kid(s). There is just too much to do. The people there are VERY family oriented. Having lived there you know this.

Make a decision. Are you going to be a big girl and go to be with the man you had a baby with (I could preach about the problems of having children out of wedlock here) or are you going to whine and say "it's all about me" and YOU have to give up everything for me? Make a plan - execute it.

I know others are going to rag on me for not being more sensitive here - but sometimes - someone needs to tell someone the truth or at least show them what others are seeing.....and this is what I see.

If you decide you won't be happy in Europe, then you won't be. If you decide to be happy in Europe, then you will be. I would go now while your child is young. Once your child is close to school age, you can reevaluate.

I'm not saying this because he's the man, or because "god" said so, just that I couldn't be happy if my husband totally wasn't, and that I think living, at least for a few years, in a European country would be an adventure I'd be up for!

Your husband's job satisfaction is important, too. If he can land a good job, then a trip home once or twice a year may be possible. In the meantime, there is Skype.

My stepson had his first two children while living in Saudi Arabia going to school there. We used Skype a lot. They visited for several weeks each summer.

After my parents got married, my dad was offered a position overseas - and that was the beginning of a lifetime of travel and living abroad for them (30+ years!). As a child, I got to live in several different countries and have many wonderful experiences. As far as I could tell, my mom never felt isolated because she approached each new adventure with an enthusiasm that was contagious. They made lifelong friends that they continued to keep up with even after they retired to Florida. Yes, it was somewhat of an unconventional childhood for me, but I wouldn't have traded it for anything. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you CAN make it work, if you are willing. I know it seems like a huge upheaval for you, but change can be good for you, if you let it! It seems like you are putting up so many roadblocks and obstacles for yourself, instead of looking at all the positive things a move could bring. I think the experience could be great for all of you, if you can open yourself up to it. If I were in your shoes, I think I would at least give it a try. I don't see it as a choice between making your husband happy, or yourself happy - you can't "know" you will be miserable if you haven't even given it a chance - you might end up loving it. If it's THAT important to your husband, and you love him and want to maintain a family with him, I think you owe it to him to be a little more open-minded to the idea. JMO.

Well, you all planned on staying here for a while, and now he's pulling the rug from under you and changing his mind about going back. Same reason I broke up with my fiance from Iran...

I really think the support should be with you since you are having a child and need/want the support of your family friends.

I'm all for marriages staying together and really think you all need to sit down and do a compromise and focus on making each other happy... A depressed/lonely mom does not make a happy wife/mother after all.... Like, a compromise could be, we'll stay here fin Cali for 4 years and when the 4 years is up let's reevaluate. In that time, your husband can teach you and the child the language. Baby will pick it up more quickly than you though!

If you love the man and he loves you and you want to remain husband and wife, the only suggestion I can make is compromise. Six months here and six months in Europe. If you spend a solid six months with his folks, they will learn to love and you them. Hopefully you will also learn the language and customs. Ditto for him.

If this won't work for either of you, I think you know the answer.

Blessings.....

Wow, i dont anyone can have the right answer to this. The only solution is see is Living in Europe with many plane rides home for you to be with your family. Otherwise you guys will have to pick one, which both of you have very valid reasons for wanting to live there.

We have a similar situation but I am the one who wants to move "home." We made a deal...we will live where we currently are for 5 years and then we will move closer to my family provided that we can afford to do so and then we will reevaluate things and decide what is best for our family. It is a hard situation to be in for both parties if you both feel strongly about it (luckily my husband has no real attachment to this area). That being said, I can relate to your husband's position....so with that said I feel like you should give Europe a shot. Go into it with an open mind and heart and see where it leads you. You can always move back to CA if things don't work out. For us it comes down to compromise and I insisted that we visit my family a minimum of twice per year, no ifs ands or buts. Good luck.

Obviously telling you that hindsight is 20/20 and that you guys should have talked about this a long time ago isn't going to help anything right now. My BIL is in the same situation (while the two places aren't across the globe, they aren't the same state). He decided that he needed to focus on what was going to make their FAMILY happy. It is no longer about you or your husband individually- especially now that you have a little one too.

It is hard to give you a definitive answer because we aren't you, so I guess giving you some questions to ask yourself if the best way we can help.
- do you see the marriage ending if you told him you must stay in CA?
- is Amsterdam 'bad' for you or is it just an adjustment that may take a few months?
- Does he have family still in Amsterdam? If you live in CA are you close to more family on your side then if you lived in Holland?
- has he told you, without question, that he wants to go back or is this just something that you think he is thinking?
-if he finds a different job here that is more in his area of interest, would it change the way he feels about the situation.

It is always tough to make these kind of decisions, but just focus on asking the right questions of yourself and him and try to come to a decision together without ultimatiums.

These types of problems are what premarital counseling are for. I am not being sarcastic...I am totally serious. If the two of you had discussed this and come to an agreement before being married and having children...well...anyhow, I totally sympathize. It seems like a lot of people have issues like this, and what's done is done.

In my opinion, and based on my belief in God's law, really, you ought to do what your husband says is best for your family. If he can get a much better job there, and would be happy, he's going to want YOU to be happy and do what he can to make it so. This country is really going downhill, anyhow...if I had the opportunity (and don't get me wrong, I do love America) I think I would move to Europe. I only get to see my parents once or twice a year because they live across the country, so nothing would really change.

Plus, if he's making more money, maybe you'll be able to afford travel back and forth to visit.

It's a really tough situation, though, because I understand how lonely you would feel. On the plus side, you would be able to focus so much time on your child and husband (which is the way marriage is intended) and I'll tell you one thing...now that my parents live so far away (they have for about three years) my husband and I get along better, spend more time together, and I get along with my parents better, too.

But like I said, I sympathize...my sister-in-law lived in Turkey for about seven years and gave birth to and raised her daughter there for the first four years of her life...and now that she's back in the states, she won't leave. They are divorcing over that issues (plus many others, so don't worry...it's not just that)

Really, the two of you ought to sit down at night when you have lots of loving time, and decide what would be best for the family. Also, think about things that COULD make you happy while you were over there, and really talk about it.

Best of luck...I'll say a prayer for you! :)

I agree with you. I would never want to live in another country without family that I am close to. I think your husband is being insensitive and babyish not you. Home isn't always a place it's where your family is. He doesn't want to be with his family so why can't you be with yours? Your husband should make some friends if he doesn't have any already then maybe he won't be so homesick.

I married a man from the Czech Republik. I've wanted to move back to Europe for a long time, before I met him. I've lived in Germany 6 years and as a Mothering Advocate, Breastfeeding advocate, Family rights Advocate and Feminist - - Europe is the better and safer place to be, especially as a Mother and to raise children.

I have a 5 y/o and #2 is due in July... we've seriously contemplated moving to Europe, not necessarily his home country - once the baby is about 4 or 5 y/o. I don't see being in another country as isolating, I see it as stimulating and adventurous - even when I know what it's like.

Yes, your post makes sense.I understand your dilemma. You are wanting for your children here what he is wanting for your children there. He just doesn't fit in. Maybe being close to his family is not that important to him as is the fact that he just doesn't fit here, doesn't like it here.
So, now you have to answer the following questions: do you love him? Do you still want to be married to him? Do you want to make it work for you two? Do you want more children with him? the answers to these questions, will give you a better idea as to what you will do.
Learning a new language is not a big issue. Your children will be bilingual, even more than just two languages. His parents living outside Amsterdam is not that big of a problem. The waste distance that you have in the US is much less prominent in Europe. It's cheaper to travel from one place to another place.
My husband and I have the same issue. The difference is I decided to stay here for the time being while I do not fit it, I am lonely, no family around. But we have an agreement that we visit as much as we want Europe, and once we retire we will live in both continents, that way we both get what we want.
Don't stress out. Don't be afraid to move to a place where you have no one. You will make friends through your kids, neighbors, workplace etc. Just don't be afraid. Take some time to yourself and decide. But try to understand him. He tried here. Don't you think he tried? Maybe it won't be that bad. :(
Good luck

My Husband is from Europe.
We live here.
He likes it here as well.
Over the years, he has gotten his own life/work/friends.
Sure, he misses home... but he says that home is where I am and his kids.
And that, he knows, I would not want to live, in his home country.
My Dad passed away about 10 years ago, and I want to raise my family/kids here. They are the only lineage, of my Dad. It is important to me.
But we do travel to Europe. When we can or can afford to. Which is rare actually.

Amsterdam is nice. I have been there.
If you have friends and a life there, then it is easier to acculturate. This is an "acculturation" process.
Likewise, for your Husband, IF he has friends and a life here, it will be a better experience.

Europe and the USA are very different. Culturally. So, each person has a different ability... to adapt or not. Or their level of acceptance for acculturating in a place of residence.

I ALWAYS, appreciate my Husband's 'sacrifice' for living here. With me and per my preference. But again, he is happy here too. He does like it here.

This is probably not much help, but I would LOVE to live in various parts of Europe! I would love to learn the languages, customs (especially about the food and drink)! With or without a baby I would def embrace such an exciting life.

I know you just want to be close to your family now you're a mom. :(
Seems like an impossible situation. Unless one of you steps up and tries really hard to enjoy the other's preferred country......I hope one of you will soon!

:)

I think that you should have discussed this before getting married, let alone having children. Now that ship has sailed and you need to decide what to do. If I were you, I would stay here...you are from here, your child was born here, your family is here, and he said he didn't want to live 'there'.

You and your hubby really need to have a heart to heart on this.

You are in such a difficult situation. Honestly, I think you should go where he is leading. He is your family now. You will be fine. Love on your husband and baby, and build those relationships so that they are super strong. Don't let geography divide the two of you. I know, it's hard. But, it's where you are. He is the one providing, and while he has no guarantees that he gets to love his job, it would be nice if he does. Be one with each other. Thankfully, modern technology helps connect people across the world. You can skype and email, etc. to keep up your long distance family relationships. And, you can chose to be happy or not. It's a choice. It is all about perspective. Be thankful, and live life. Enjoy what you have and where you are, wherever that may be. (By the way, I have lived in Europe and Asia as an adult. I totally understand what is involved moving to a different culture. Even 1st world cultures are very different from America.)

This is tough... and honestly should have been thought of WAY before hand. Now that you have a family together you two have to figure out what is BEST for YOUR family. There is going to be no way for us to say what you should do, but I completely understand the stresses of the situation.

My dad is a pastor, when I was a freshman in highschool he became a missionary in Bulgaria. He moved the WHOLE family; my mom, my 3 younger brothers (ages 12, 10, 7) and I (14) over there, but after MUCH counseling and talking with the family. I ended up staying at a dormatory high school in the States, visiting them during Christmas and Summer vacation. They LOVED it over there and so did I, in total they were over there for 7 1/2 years.

The biggest and hardest thing was being SO far from family. Now we would only see relatives 2-3 times a year because we always lived states away from them. I have married, and they are back in the States and live only 30 mins from me. I love being so close to family and I would miss having my daughter spend all that time with relatives. Right now I would only move somewhere if family was close by that I can hang out with, do family stuff with and so on, hubby and I are on the same page.

The plane tickets are pricey to even come back every year if not more. So if it is a MUST for you to see your side of the family once or twice a year figure out what plane tickets will be when all 3 of you have to pay and see if you can afford that. Since family means so much to you and you are close with your family your hubby has take that into consideration when you two are thinking this out. In return you need to be considerate of his thoughts of raising a family in Europe.

The TWO of you are your own family, so both of you should be trying to figure out what you want for your family and try what you think is best for your family. Both of you should have a chance at being happy, and it should make both of you happy by making the other person happy. Also hubby should keep looking for a job that he would love, if possible, and that should also play in where you will live. There is no winning, just figuring out what is BEST for your family, what you vaule, what he vaules and what you want for your child/family.

Life is hard, and tough decisions have to be made, sometimes we have to do things that we don't like but put your whole heart into what ever you two decide. Thinking of others first, make the most out of what or where you are.

UGH! this happened sort of with my friend..her husband wanted to move back east..and she had to leave all of her friends back here in Ca...but she did it for him..well they wound up breaking up..their son is now 16..the divorce was final a year ago...where does her husband live now? ...Here in L.A. ..why? b/c she came back here w/ her son..after the divorce was final he wanted her back..but it was too late..
what i would do is this..i would go back with him in the winter..when its horribly cold there..just for a visit..see if that doesn't make him want to come back to California..
my parents are from Denmark..my mom was whining about going back..etc..and she went back for some reunion thing..it was during the winter..she came back with her tail between her legs..not ever wanting to go back there again..
have him go back by himself if u don't feel like going..but make sure its in the winter..hopefully he'll appreciate it more here ..i can see why u don't want to go..i love europe too..i grew up here in LA..w/ all of my relatives in europe..i happen to have 2 cousins in town visiting..that is so rare..i can almost count on one hand how many times family has come to visit..and i feel cheated that i have not been around them..you should stay near family if that's what u want to do..

xo

D.

I am sorry, it must be hard, I can see why you would want to stay close to your family, on the other side, we move and keep moving if my husband work is far from here.
Would you think different if you guys actually married?
I mean, I don't think I would leave my family for a boyfriend but I would for the men I would spend my life with.
Maybe compromise and stay here until your baby is a toddler and starts school you can think again where you will live and where your kid will go to school.
However, how knows where you as a family will end up on years, I sure never thought I will be in NJ, bahhh!

America is so crazy right now I think it would be a fun adventure to try to go with the European flow. If it doesnt work out after a few years of trying you could come back to America. Make your hubby sign an agreement to that....It would be the mutually respectful thing for you both to do.
Having your family get to plan vacations to visit you in Europe would be fun for them. If you have a webcam you can always skype everyone here in the states.
I would go where my husband would thrive, honestly.

Beth, I'm sorry you two are struggling with this. I have a good friend (US citizen) whose husband is from Germany and who worked in France for 2 years. She went to live there for those 2 years, and she said that it was the hardest thing she has ever had to do, even though she does speak French (and so does her DH; he had a 2yr research job there). She had her 11m old daughter with her, and she was really very lonely (her DH had to travel for his research, too, so he wasn't even always with her--he'd be gone for 2 to 3 week stints every couple of months.)

I don't have any good answers, though.... One thought I did have was for you two to compromise, and maybe try to move to Canada. Canada is more like Europe in a lot of ways, but they (mostly) speak English. And I believe that they are always looking for educated people in technical fields.... This way, both of you could feel like you were equally giving up something, to start somewhere new.

Another thought is--would he be able to work somewhere like the UK? That would be "European" but you would probably be able to find more like minded people and definitely English speakers...

I visited Norway several years ago, and while English is not the first language there, everyone is taught English starting in 2nd grade, so most people can actually speak it really well. And that is definitely European.

Were it me, I would probably follow my husband, especially if the earning potential were higher for him in his own field (rather than working outside of his field in a lower paying job--though you don't indicate that). But I would probably struggle just as you are/do. Because if he earned a good amount, you could then take extended trips home for visits, or have your family come & visit you, and maybe hire someone to tutor you in the language or help with the baby so you could get the time needed to try to find a group of people you could bond with.

And no, I don't think either of you are crazy or childish---I think you are actually both trying to work out a really hard problem that really does not have any ideal solutions.

I wish you the very best and hope you two are able to find a compromise that works for both of you.

You didn't mention what your husband's job interest is. A life time
of not doing what you want to do would be hard.
I married a Dutchman years ago and lived there for some time and had two
babies there. My problem was that they all speak English and that make
learning Dutch very very hard.
My husband always worked at what he wanted to do and we did move to
other places and finally the US, but not to suit me but for his job.
Why not give it another try and travel home as often as you can.
Good luck.

Well, since you guys didn't come to an agreement before getting married and having a baby there probably isn't a truly 'correct' way to decide where you should live. If it is truly important to both of you and you will resent him if you 'give in' and move - I would flip a coin. It's fair, neither one of you should resent the other and honestly you each have equally 'valid' reasons for your positions.

Hello Beth,
I can sympathize with your dilemma. My ex-husband was French Canadian and I was in a relationship very much like yours, however, I had my daughter in Canada because I didn't have health insurance in the U.S. I lived there for 2 years, didn't know French, and ended up loving in, regardless of the endless frigid winters. I found many friends due to the fact that I had a daughter, all activities surrounded her. I still have 2 dear friends who live in Montreal and wouldn't have left if not for more work in the L.A. for her dad. We visited relatives twice a year, and they come to Montreal. The biggest regret was my daughter never learned French from her dad, which we were told was easy, if only he spoke French to her as a little girl, excluding English from his vocabulary every time he spoke to her. If you don't move, make sure your husband speaks Dutch to your child so he/she can grow up bilingual a lovely gift.
Good luck Beth,
Wendy