Disrespectful 15 Year Old Daughter

M., you have gotten some excellent and frankly tough advice here. It's true that the boundaries you describe aren't really boundaries. I'm not going to repeat all that good advice given below (please re-read Diane B's in particular) but am just going to add a couple of points.

Near the top of your post you mention that you "asked her to turn her music down or I would throw her speaker out of the window." I totally get the exasperation that can drive a comment like that toward a teen but -- is this typical of how you speak to her? The "or I'd throw her speaker out" is a red flag; if you couldn't stop at saying, "Please turn your music down" there's a problem. As others noted, where are the consequences for her? Tossing out her speakers is not a consequence. Do you have real consequences that she knows about in advance?

For example: You ask her to turn the music down. "Please turn down the music." She doesn't and you then say calmly, "Please turn it down. This is the second time I'm asking this. If I get to a third time, it goes all the way off, and you will lose your phone for the rest of the day and tonight." Or she loses whatever she will feel the loss of -- TV time, an outing, whatever. But there are advance warnings to her and a very, very clear statement about how doing (or not doing) thing X will result in consequence Y. Did you do this when she was little? It's totally applicable to a teen, too. Do it.

Think about this: When you say, "I wont give her rides anywhere until she talks to me respectfully for a period of time (maybe a couple of weeks)," that is very vague. What do you mean by "talk respectfully"? Specifically? You may feel she "ought to know" without being told, but apparently she doesn't, so and she AND DAD need to have that conversation. Not a shouting argument -- a laying out of rules at a calm time. And "a period of time" is totally unclear; she has no idea if you just mean "forever" by that; you can say "a few weeks" but in her head she hears "as long as mom wants, so, forever."

I strongly suggest you, dad and daughter need family counseling and you and dad need parenting help. There is no shame or stigma in getting an outside, objective, third party professional to look at your parenting and your family dynamics. Please consider it.

I want to second Diane when she says that if you don't fix this ASAP, you AND DAD (get it? He's got to be on board) will be doing daughter a huge disservice.That's why involving someone outside the home could be a huge help.

One other thing that jumped out at me. She is disappearing from your house for hours and hours, apparently on school nights too, and walking around "in the countryside." Why does she not have enough schoolwork and enough organized activities that she is too busy simply to vanish? Does she have any activity that she likes and values? A club, hobby, sport, artistic activity, anything at all? So she just defies you and goes out the door (or out a window)? You may need to require her to join some activities if she has that much free time on her hands. And because you drive her, you can know she gets to the activities.

I too wonder if the friends she's going to meet are also under-occupied and have too much hanging out time. Frankly, hanging out is not good for many teens, and your daughter is flat-out defying you to go do just that.

If she will stay in the house if dad says to, he needs to start being home when she gets home from school, even if that means he has to rearrange work for a month or so. If you need to do whatever is necessary so she can't get out windows or walk out of the house, do that. And get all of you into counseling ASAP and her into activites that she chooses and that you cheerfully support - but that she has to attend.

I don't think your goal needs to be for her to show you respect (as in, she shouldn't be upset when she can't play loud music or has to follow a curfew). She doesn't have to like your rules, but she does have to follow them.

You and your husband need to be on the same page and need to decide together what the rules are, how they will be handled and what the consequences will be if they are not followed.

For example, she doesn't need to have her phone in her room. Decide where her phone should charge at night, and tell her that she needs to plug it in there by 9:00 pm. There it will stay until 7:00 am, the next morning. No exceptions. (or something like that)

Don't ask her not to go out with her friends after school. Tell her what time she needs to be home and decide what the consequence will be if she isn't.

She should speak to you in a respectful way, so it's not ok for her to swear at you. But if you ask her to turn down her music and she refuses, it's perfectly ok for you to say, "Turn your music down now, or I'm taking your speakers out of your room for 1 week."

She needs boundaries, so get rid of that crazy idea that this is because you try to enforce boundaries. One of the hard parts is remaining calm and consistent. If you can do that, she will begin to respect the boundaries you give her. She doesn't have to like it, but she does need to learn how to accept it.

do you really think that it's having boundaries that has caused your daughter's disrespect?

shutting off the internet was a good start. but other than that, you don't describe actually having boundaries.

in this situation i wouldn't be *asking* my rude daughter to stay home, or turn down the music. conversely, nor would i make a silly threat like throwing her speaker out the window.

i think it would be helpful if you decide in advance, when you're calm, what your responses to her typical rude behaviors will be. let her know. then stick to them. the speaker thing indicates a tendency to wait until you're exasperated and then react in an over the top fashion. that's not having boundaries.

might also help to recruit her to help decide what the boundaries will be. obviously you have to do this while you're both calm. tell her that you're concerned about the escalating levels of disrespect and ask what her suggestions are to handle it (nb do NOT ask her to be the final arbiter. that's the difference between just asking a defiant teen to be nicer and actually having boundaries.) LISTEN to her suggestions. they might involve you being more courteous to her. even when you don't feel she deserves it.

where is your husband in this family dynamic, other than criticizing you?

it can be difficult to change a family paradigm, but if you are clear and consistent, you can do it.

good luck!

khairete
S.

I don’t think this is the result of too many boundaries. I think it’s the result of too few. You make requests but don’t have consequences. And it’s a huge problem that you and your husband are not on the same page. Is he her father? If so, he needs to step up and present a united front with you. There’s no reason for her to respect you if he doesn’t. And it’s teaching her that women can be ignored. As defiant as she is now, she’s going to wind up being a woman who is not strong enough to stand up for herself because you, her greatest role model, are not willing.

You made a good start with taking away the internet. It’s a privilege for responsible teens, not a fundamental human right. As long as you provide her with food (reasonable), clothing (reasonable), shelter, education and medical insurance, you’re good. You don’t have to give in o every demand just because she HAS to have this outfit or that snack. I think you waited until you were too furious, and threatened to throw the speakers out the window – I understand your exasperation, but you showed her it’s okay to act impulsively, and that’s not effective. You want her to think ahead and predict consequences. Instead, I’d have unplugged the speakers the next day and put them in a box, and I’ve have asked a friend or neighbor to store them for me. I’d have picked someone without kids she’s friendly with.

You refused to give her rides, which is good, and she’s walking, which is good. At 15, she should be capable of crossing a street safely. You are worried about her though – has it occurred to you that she knows this, and is defying you as a way to punish you and make you give in on other things? Has it occurred to you that she may be getting rides from older kids? That should concern you. She’s not honest with you, and that’s a problem. So, you either have to catch her (which means following her) or you have to convince her she will have more privileges and fun if she can be more responsible. She’s going to want a learner’s permit next year – let her know it’s not happening unless she shows you a solid year’s worth of responsible behavior so you can trust her in a two-ton death machine. And make sure your husband is not making this your fight only. There is certainly a marital break here – you’re not a team.

Bedtime – you can’t control it. But you can take away the distractions. Get her a simple alarm clock and take away the phone. Start taking it at night, and if she doesn’t go to school, she can talk to the principal to explain why school isn’t important. Or she can talk to the school resource officer (if there is one) or the truant officer. (You might want to have a conversation yourself with these folks – the SRO is typically a police officer, and in most towns, they want to work with parents to prevent kids from going off the rails. So a kid out roaming around in the dark with unknown acquaintances is a red flag. The SROs also see how your kid acts when you’re not around. ) In any case, let the school impose penalties on her – do not listen to her say this is a reflection on you. You cannot make her sleep. You can only make it so boring in her room that sleep is her only option. At 15, she can set her own alarm and be responsible – otherwise, no use of the car. It’s training for being an adult.

I think you can engage her in an adult discussion about ways to make her life better. You can lay out the privileges that come from abiding by reasonable rules (not requests), and let her know she will actually have a lot more fun if she works with you rather than against you, so you don’t have to impose more restrictions.

Are you positive she’s not using drugs or alcohol? Do you know how to determine this? You have every right to go through her room and her phone, check texts, look for drug paraphernalia, etc. It’s not her room, her phone – you provide them, and you are legally responsible for her.

But as the stepparent of a girl whose mother failed to intervene and has had a lifetime of terrible choices and legal repercussions, I’ll tell you now that letting this go on is a disservice to her and to you. This is parenting, not a popularity contest. If you need help, especially because your husband is not providing it, it’s a sign of strength to get some counseling and family support from a neutral expert.

M.

Welcome to Mamapedia.

You're not helping your situation., You are becoming your own worst enemy. Why would you threaten to throw her speaker out the window? You're supposed to be the adult here. Come on. That's not the right way to handle it.

You need to sit down with your FAMILY - not just your daughter and set the ground rules. There are SET BOUNDARIES and rules - no "maybe a couple of weeks". If you do not treat me with respect - and this is what I feel is respect...and give her examples. She will be grounded for X number of days. PERIOD. Not, well, I'll see how I feel about it.
Keep in mind? Respect goes BOTH WAYS!! You need to treat HER with respect. And it sounds like you don't. You BOTH have issues. You aren't her best friend. You are her MOTHER. HER PARENT. You must parent her. However, if you do NOT respect your daughter? She will NOT respect you. It's a two way street.

Cell phones? Sorry - not in the room at night. Get her a regular alarm clock. She doesn't need her phone for that. EVERYONE should keep their cell phones in the same place at night. We have a charging station. When my husband goes to bed, if he remembers, he unplugs them (if he had his way - cell phones would NOT exist!!)

Curfew? If she going to go somewhere AFTER school? She needs to ask permission FIRST and tell you WHERE she is going. You have the right to check up on her. My kids tried just "doing" and realized that I meant what I said - I would check up and since I work from home? I have that ability. If they weren't where they said? It hit the fan. They realized life was easier when they worked within the rules and asked permission and kept me/us informed of what they WANTED to do.

Homework is always first in the house. Get it done first then have the rest of the time to play. for a while, I would give them 30 minutes to chill - and that ended up getting stretched out. So they ended up not getting stuff done. Now that I have a freshman in college and a junior in high school? Life is different. She's 15. She's in high school. She'll be driving soon. Do you want her to be RESPONSIBLE or what? You NEED to teach her. You need to ROLE MODEL and threatening to throw the speaker out the window is NOT a role model move. Nor is being VERY VAGUE about time-frames.

You need to ensure the rules are the same for everyone in the house. If cell phones aren't permitted in the bedrooms at night? then it's that way for EVERYONE.

Teenagers are hard. They are finally "growing up" and it's hard for mama's to see their babies grow up. This is life. Instead of fighting her? ROLE MODEL and HELP HER. Show her what responsibility is. SHOW her that life CAN be good and she can still have fun if she follows the rules.

Don't be vague.
Don't threaten something you will not do.
Rules the same for everyone.
Tell her what you expect of her.
Give her rewards (Freedom) when she does what is expected of her.

This doesn't have to be a horrible time.

Is she seeing a therapist? That’s my first thought get her to someone who she can talk to out side of the situation. She may not like it or even talk at first but keep it up. Go to a therapist for yourself as well. It is so important to have someone you both can talk to. Take her phone for a week. Until she can be respectful no phone. Make her stay home. She leaves you call the police. Good luck momma teen girls are hard! We will survive!