I have two sons, one will be four in a week the other will be two in December. I ferberized my first son at 6 1/2 months or so. A few days of crying and three years of easy bedtimes with kisses and sweet dreams. My second son we never had to ferberize, he was always happy to go into his crib and listen to his music and talk to himself and go to sleep. Fast forward to three months ago. My oldest son started whining and throwing fits that we needed to sit with him. The younger followed suit- monkey see, monkey do. Now my husband and I sit in the hallway or in the door way to their room for anywhere from a half hour to an hour every night until they are asleep. If we get up the oldest screams and has tantrums, the younger will just come down stairs. If we shut our younger sons door he will scream too.
I am an at home mom and stick to a strict schedule. You could set your watch by us. We have the same routine, nothing has changed. Dinner, bath, 1/2 hour of tv, 15 minutes of books, five minutes of snuggle time. Now, an hour of sitting on the floor!!! I know some of it has to do with their ages. But what do I do to end this? Do we say good night and walk away, go back after 5 minutes to reassure, then 10 etc? Keep in mind that if one is screaming, they will both go at it until there is silence.
I miss my happy boys who gave kisses and went to sleep and slept through the night. Often they get up in the night as well and cry for us to sit. Blah.
Thanks for any thoughts, I need them.
By all means do. Refer to the book again however, because there are tips for dealing with two children, and for dealing with older children, and for addressing underlying problems, if any.
Hooray for sleep.
I'm not sure how old your boys are, but I'll tell you what we do (and, I know this doesn't work for most people!). If they are babies, we rock them to sleep, then lay them down. If they wake up in the night, we give them a few minutes to settle on their own. If they don't, then we go in rock them to sleep and lay them down.
Our slightly older kids (3 and 4) go to bed at the same time. I sit in the rocking chair in their room (as I'm doing right now actually!) and play around on the laptop while they fall asleep. There's no yelling, screaming, upset feelings. It's something we've always done. We do a bedtime routine prior, and we chat then, but once they are in bed to go to sleep, I let them know that it's time to be quiet and I won't be talking anymore. I let them flip and flop and chat to themselves if they want. They fall asleep within 10-15 minutes.
My 8 year old puts herself to bed and falls asleep herself. Somewhere along the line we do switch to them doing it themselves. Can't remember how old she was.
The reason I do this is because my mom was more strict and always put us to bed by ourselves and never responded to our cries except to get us in trouble. I was always terrified at night and really wanted someone to be there with me. It lasted for YEARS. When I was ten, I finally started being able to sleep more on my own without making it rough for my parents. But, even now, I still struggle going to bed if I'm by myself, which luckily rarely happens.
So, due to how I felt as a kid, I have no problem sitting in with my kids to help them feel comfortable and safe when they go to sleep. My 3 year old is allowed to come snuggle with us at night if she needs to. My 4 and 8 year old need to stay in their own beds now, but they can come chat with us if they have issues. We sometimes have them share a bed if the 4 year old is feeling scared. That helps him a lot.
Anyway, it's probably not the solution you want, but it works great for us:-)
This sentence is huge: "My oldest son started whining and throwing fits that we needed to sit with him."
Let me say it a different way: "My oldest son started telling us that he needed more time alone with us."
Some kids need more attention than their brothers/sisters. It might be a phase, but it sounds like he needs reassurance that, when he says he needs your attention without his brother (aka: rival), he can get it.
But of course, now its evolved into a 3-way power play--and no one is winning. My suggestion is that you break-up bedtime; put the youngest to bed first, let your oldest stay up just a while longer to have special bedtime story time with one of the parents. You can introduce a reward chart for cooperation at bedtime. Figure out a reward that will address his need for more attention & one-on-one time. Perhaps one parent takes him for an ice-cream one Sunday if he goes to bed smoothly the entire week prior.
I don't think the reward idea will work for the 2 year old. I personally think that age 2 is too younger to grasp behavior incentives.
Good Luck!
Well, you used to have great sleepers, so you can have them again! The good news is, you know they have the skills and the understanding somewhere since you have seen them before. Both are definitely old enough to be ignored at nighttime. Do they share a room? They need to be placed into bed and once you know all needs are met, they need to be IGNORED. They have just fallen into a rotten new habit that can be broken. My advice is no going back and forth etc as this is helpful maybe with small infants to know that you still are there, etc. Your kids don't need reminders that you are there in the same way a small infant does. My advice is to explain to both the rules (the 4 yo should be able to handle this) and use gates to keep them in the bedrooms. If they climb over gates and come to you or you find them wandering out of the bedrooms, place them back in bed without ANY speaking ( no explaining it's bedtime, you should have already done that) and do this as many times as necessary. I wouldn't sit outside rooms waiting for them to get out because then they still have you on hold like they want and you're at their mercy. Just go about your night and put them back in immediately if they come to you. They will soon tire of this if they are not getting your attention or what they want. Important thing is to BE CONSISTENT. The 4 yo may even benefit from a sticker reward chart or something, but I don't really think it's necessary. Good luck to you, this can and should be unlearned behavior.
Rotten habbit? Oh dear! Like Lipstick Mama said, this is his way of saying something to you. ESPECIALLY if it happened out of the blue! Just don't count it as he is turning rotten and it's something that needs to get cried out of him. You have to fix the root to the problem and good things will follow.
They may have some honest anxiety about bedtime due to being separated from you or fear of the dark, etc. or they may have just gotten in a bad habit or pitching fits and gaining attention.
At their ages, it's a bit too late for the cry it out method. Instead try a reward system. Explain before bed that if they go to bed nicely without crying and without getting out of bed, in the morning they will get a sticker on a chart. Then give out a small prize in the morning.
Some kids will still need reassurance that they can get an extra hug or kiss. In that case, you can try giving them 3 small tickets or tokens (pretty much anything goes here, handwritten on a small piece of paper, domino, cards from a deck, etc). When they call you back into the room (no screaming, no crying), they have to hand over a ticket. When all the tickets are gone, no more returning. After a few days you can go down to 2 tickets.
Both of these methods worked for us. Our kids still need an occasional extra hug, sip of water, etc. and at 6 and 8 they go to bed very well.
I'm with Teresa C. I sat with my daughter (well, in the hallway where she could see me) for the transitional period when she was getting used to her toddler bed. It kept her in bed and quiet and gradually it ended; I spent less and less time each night sitting there and she could settle well on her own. It's not an admission of defeat for you to do this, but I get the impression you think it is.
This will end too. But it doesn't seem like it because you're so used to a perfect schedule, perfectly followed by your kids. Realize that this will not be the last time one or both of them shifts sleep patterns; the sooner you know that, the better you will be at handling it as they get older. Routines are essential but so is some flexibility and meeting their bedtime needs (see what Teresa said about that....). Your sons will get out of this phase, possibly sleep very well for a time, and then just as you think you're done with the sleep "training," one will start having nightmares and coming into your bed, or the other will start waking regularly at 5 a.m. ready to start his day and not understanding why that's a problem for anyone else. In other words, don't expect a lifetime of kisses and sleep until morning. It's OK and it's normal. My 10-year-old has restless patches then months of fine sleep. Wait until puberty starts! That affects their sleep too.
I would definitely eliminate the TV at bedtime; there's twice as much TV time as book time by your account and it's not really needed. TV can rev up many kids, even if the shows are gentle, quiet ones; it's still flickering images being impressed on their minds for them, rather than their minds having to come up with their own images for what you read to them.
Yes, try going back after 5 minutes, then 10, then 15. They may take some time to learn that that means you DO come back but eventually it should help. I did that with my daughter too and she realized it meant I was still there. I'm not clear on the ages of your sons but if they're under about 18 months, they may feel like you disappear completely if you leave a room, which distresses them.
It's called fear... the age of boogey men, nightmares, strange noises must be something nefarious is upon your children - and the dark is terrifying... You and husband find comfort, security and safety with each other in the night time when things don't always appear or sound as they are... why do you think your 2 vulnerable children with inexperienced imaginations are able to handle the big dark scary night alone when you nor your husband do?
Hmmmm, so sorry to hear this. You have a good routine down, but TV can actually "wire" some children so I would cut that out completely, best to have it before dinner at some point. Spend that time singing quiet songs or reading more stories.
Put up a baby gate in the doorway, stack two if necessary, and that keeps them in the rooms. Tough as it may be, once you know all needs have been met, you hug, place in bed, turn out the light and leave. Sit outside the door (cut the time that you spend sitting outside their doors by 5 or 10 minutes each night) and point to the bed when they get up, the less interaction the better so no talking, etc. You have to make them believe their behavior has no effect on you, hard, I know, but the only way they'll stop doing this. Reaction = more acting out, no reaction = why bother?
Hang in there!
