My child was one of 3 girls in 3rd grade who finished their work and were helping another girl hold her project together while it dried. A girl who was still working on her own project kept telling my child "Cindy, they don't need your help. Cindy, stop holding that project because they can do it without you. Cindy, sit down. Cindy, she doesn't want your help." She never said a word to the other two girls who were helping. She is one of the high school teacher's kids.
My child was embarrassed, looked to the teacher to help her, and decided to sit down since the teacher ignored it. My child asked me why the girl was acting mad at her and why the teacher didn't help. I emailed the teacher and asked her to please help me understand from her perspective since she was stading right there when it happened. My child has been bullied and I have been up there and documented it. I asked her if that girl was in charge or the teacher's assistant because she felt she could boss my child around and I don't understand that. I told the teacher it sounds like exclusion and picking on my child. I reminded her that she told me she would intervene to stop the bullying and the school administrator said if we told them when it was happening, they would step in and stop it.
The teacher gave some answer about not seeing it as a problem and not knowing what the child was thinking(it was not the child's project or business). She did not see it as exclusion and still insists my child is doing better, but if she feels excluded to speak up in front of the other kids(they get meaner to her when she does). Other kids called it "being mean" and the teacher just ignored it again.
The girl who was telling my child to sit down later jumped up to help hold the other girl's project.
Me and my kids choose not to be victims. We are not threatened by mean girls, rotten kids, grouchy people, hostile remarks, bulliers, etc. We are better than them, so why would we CARE what they say? We are not bully-able.
:)
I really don't see this a bullying.
Just sounds like someone being bossy.
My daughter has problems with bullies at school , also 3rd grade. That includes name calling , teasing , doing things to deliberately make her mad so she goes off and gets in trouble for it.
This calls for ignoring the child and going on about her business , not really intervention by the teacher.
I agree with SK sounds like the little girl was hoping for some help since there were 3 helping the other little girl.
Why do teachers not stop this? I think the teacher is mostly at fault for not telling the girl to quit playing teacher or boss.
Some kids are the bossy, bratty kids. Some kids are the quiet, turn-the-other-cheek kids. Its always been like that, but now parents are way over-protective, IMHO. Your daughter could have told the kid to buzz off, but she is sweeter than miss bossy pants and didnt.. She wasnt bullied, she was over-personalitied.
It doesnt sound like bullying to me, sounds like girls being bossy girls. Role play with your daughter and teach her how to handle these situations because they are LIFE LONG situations.
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Nope, not bullying. My 7 yo LOVES to boss everyone - even me. LOL! It is super annoying though, and I have to tell my 7 yo that bossing is a turn off for friend making and he gets it.
I have also had to have conversations with my 4yo on how NOT to get bossed and he is slowly starting to stand up for himself.
My recommendation is same as already offered, continue to reinforce and teach her ways to respond to incidents like the one you described.
Best,
In this exact scenario I wouldn't call it bullying by exclusion - I would call it a little girl being a snot. The other girl had nothing to do with what your daughter was actively participating in and was just being mean. Is it nice? No. Is it bullying? No, not in my opinion. Hope your little one is able to ignore this kid...summer is soon...
I wish I knew. It's only getting worse.
I think a lot of the problem starts in homes all over America. First we decided that spanking is wrong and time out is okay. Then we decided that time out should be only 1 minute per age and wow, that's not going to help when a child is konking another child in the head with a toy at the age of 3...3 minutes isn't enough. Then we decided that no child should EVER suffer the harm of thinking there is something wrong with them. So we are to tell them their potty doesn't stink and that they are so darn special they can think pretty much anything they want because nothing they do is really wrong.
How in the world are you going to impress upon a child that they are being mean when they have been told all their lives that they are so good and righteous and perfect? They have no idea what shame feels like so they can't feel it.
I think this sounds more like a situation of the girl being Miss Bossy Pants as opposed to bullying.
I have two kids, 24 and 15, and for some reason, there is always a kid around who feels the need to tell everyone else what to do or what not to do.
Just because someone is bossy, it doesn't mean the other kids have to do what they say. Instead of going after the teacher, I think you need to talk to your daughter about how to handle situations like this. For instance, the girl told her the OTHER girl didn't want her help. If it didn't come from the girl she was helping, there was no need to become subservient to Miss Bossy Pants and sit down.
As long as she continues to do that, kids will boss her around. Empower her. She doesn't have to answer to a little 3rd grade control freak.
There would have been NOTHING wrong with your daughter saying, "Please stop telling me what to do!"
My kids used to say, "What are you, my mother?"
Please don't take this the wrong way, I don't know what other issues your daughter has had with kids, but I don't see this as bullying and you can't run to the teacher everytime something like this happens. If your daughter knows she can speak up for herself, you won't have to.
There are going to be mean kids, bossy kids, kids who think they're better than everyone else, kids who stick in cliques and exclude anyone who isn't "in" their clique. Our kids will grow up to be adults who have to navigate in a world full adults like that too. If we teach them young enough, they understand that other people's issues are not a direct reflection on them.
Like I said, your daughter wasn't being bullied, she was being bossed, and, she did what she was told. She sat down. She didn't need to do that. It's okay for her to stand up for herself. Please let her know that.
Best wishes.
How is this bullying? Why didn't your daughter look to the other girl and tell her to stop? I understand bullying but I think we are starting to take it to the extreme. People have to learn to deal with difficult people. That is a fact of life. However, there is a line and I just don't see this as crossing it. Was she a brat? Sure, and yes she was bossy. She wanted to be the helper not your daughter so she manipulated you daughter. Your daughter needs to start standing up for herself.
I find it so interesting how we can just say "oh, it is just being bossy." This is why we have such a major bullying issue in this country and why children are killing themselves as a result. It is vital that we acknowledge that any behavior that belittles or uses power over someone else is bullying. Minimizing behaviors and saying that they are just teasing, or being bossy, or trying to help is one of bullies sneakiest tactics. They know how to manipulate their victims as well as the system. What was they bullies intent? To make the other person feel small, less than, weak, etc. Even if it is unintentional, if the other person still feels those things, it is bullying.
Please continue to pursue the subject at your child's school. Go to the library and get books on bullying and educate yourself about what bullying is and the solutions to it so that you can be informed and better support your school administrators and teachers.
There is a really good book out there for your daughter that may support her in looking at bullying and being creative in finding solutions. It is called "Don't Pick on Me" by Susan Green. It is simple, easy to undestand, and in a workbook form. Kudos to you for being so supportive of your daughter. It isn't easy to stand up to a system that is just too apathetic, and in denial, to take this subject seriously enough.
It likely is a bit of bullying, it definitely is snotty behaviour by this girl. But I would say that things like this in life will happen and this wasn't so bad that it can't be looked at as an opportunity to teach your daughter how to stand up for herself. She was in a pretty safe environment since a teacher was there so you could coach her how to handle it differently next time. Tell her to start taking steps to stand up for herself when an adult is there to back her up if needed. Eventually she can do it when there are just kids around. If she always looks to the teacher or an adult, kids will see weakness and pounce on it later when there isn't an adult. She could have responded with something like "I want to help "suzie" and that's none of your business." And then just ignored any more comments. Sure it's not easy but she could start trying to shut this girl down.
It sounds like a bossy girl, not bullying. There Is a difference between bossing someone, and maliciously bullying. The intent is completely different. I"m willing to bet if another girl had been doing what your daughter was, she'd boss that girl. I don't think this situation happened specifically, because your daughter was involved. You said your child looked at the teacher. Did she say anything, or ask for help? Perhaps, you could take your daughter to a counselor that specializes in self-esteem and combating bullying. She can be taught ways of gaining confidence and speaking up when she's treated unfairly. Often times, kids who are "easy targets" are bullied. Meaning, the ones who wont speak up, are insecure, have learning problems, etc. It sounds like your daughter might need some confidence encouragement. (I'm not saying you aren't doing that already, just that perhaps a pro can help even more.)
She was probably hoping your daughter would offer to help HER finish since three people were helping the other girl.
I really don't think this was something you needed to jump down the teachers throat over. Next time have the decency to call the teacher instead sending her a nasty email.
I don't think it was necessarily bullying or exclusion since the girl that was saying that to your daughter was not excluding her from what she was doing at the time. I do think this girl has control and boundary issues though. She needs to learn not to be so bossy and not get involved in activities that don't concern her.
I was helping at school one day and about 6 kids came up to me on after another telling me another kid was pushing my son and hurt another kid. I told the teacher and she tried to brush it off as tattling and that he should tell the teachers on the playground. he said he did and when he said he didnt know the teachers name she kinda laughed it off. She should have done something about it if one of her students told her since the other teacher didn't. She told the kids to stop tattling and I told her that I tell my son to let me know when people push him around. The fact that the other children were concerned enough to tell me was a big enough sign. She had me talk to the principal then because I wouldn't just leave it at that and then he talked to the boys. How can a teacher just brush it off when other kids are complaining?
My daughter has been the subject of bullies. I understand where you are comming from. You are correct to document in writing to the school each and every time something happens. I would tell her to ignore the other girl and do what she wants to do. The problem is as soon as your child stands up for herself and defends herself she is the one who will get in trouble and even suspended. Their is no fairness for victims in the school. You can not stop words of bullies but I would tell them in writing if they cannnot get control of the bullying situation and your daugther gets hurt you will hold them personally and civily responsible. It is very very important that you document each and every instance that something happens. You will need to be able to pull dates and times. You cannot let them see you waiver and must make sure every meeting is followed up in writing so each party is on the same page. The kids bullying are probably are either kids of the teachers or the pta. Teachers cannot do much though because they are told to keep neutral.
Well...not sure if it's bullying by exclusion but at my son's elementary school, "respect" is a big thing. It's part of their motto: "...prompt, respectful and responsible" so if a teacher at our school aw a student talking to another student like that, they would most likely call that student out for NOT being respectful.
It doesn't sound like bullying, but definitely not nice behavior and something to keep an eye on.
I know its hard as a parent to watch your child being treated poorly. But I try to look at these situations as opportunities to talk to my kids about how to handle situations like this. Just the other day while walking home from school with my son, I watched my son get flipped to the ground by another boy. (They were up ahead of me, so I could see what happened, but the boy who did it was not aware that I was around.) Of course I was upset and wanted to address it myself, but I know that won't help my son. So I talked to my son and told him his options and asked him how he wanted to handle it. He kept wanting me to talk to the boy's mom and get him in trouble. I told him that I wouldn't do that and that he had to handle it himself. So, we ended up going to the house where the boy was staying and asked to speak to the boy (my son's choice). They talked it out, the boy apologized and they moved on. My son even told me that the boy apologized again at school the next day. So, my point is that I try to be grateful when these things happen right in front of me so that I can talk to my kids about how to handle them. The reality is that I won't always be there and my job is to teach them how to deal with these kinds of situations. I read somewhere (maybe on this website) where someone said,"Don't prepare the path for the child. Prepare the child for the path." That has stuck with me and helped guide me in raising my kids. I feel your pain. I hope this helps.
Your daughter sounds like the sweet child that doesn't want to cause any trouble, so she goes along with whatever someone else says to do.
In the future, this could really lead to problems. (Going along with her 'friends' and getting into major trouble, like shoplifting, or drugs.) She does need to learn how to speak up for herself and tell people to quit bothering her, or how to say "NO" when something doesn't feel right.
I would suggest starting some "role-playing" with her, and maybe a few of her friends, so they can learn to me more assertive without being rude or cruel, themselves.
Start by re-enacting that same scenario..... have her start rehearsing what she could say to her, and do that over and over. Go on to other situations where she feels that she has been picked on.
She will encounter MANY children in her school years (and adults, in her lifetime) that will try to tell her what to do, even when it isn't their business. The sooner she learns to become gently assertive, the happier she will be, as other children will learn they can't take advantage of her.
Be sure to tell your daughter to speak up for herself or she will continue to be an easy target. With class sizes getting larger, teachers have to pick their battles. They don't look for what is wrong with a situation as much anymore. Can you imagine a whole day of constantly looking around to see what is going wrong and figuring out how to fix it. With so many parents not being parents these days, kids have a lot more issues. Hurt people hurt people. That means that hurting kids are going to want to take it out on other kids or the teachers or both.
If you must leave your daughter in a public school, role play with her and give her good ways to stick up for herself. If a girl keeps telling her to not help another student, all she has to do is keep telling the girl the same comment over and over again (word for word) until she gets it or the teacher hears it and steps in. For example, tell her to put on her smile and say, "We are doing just fine, thank you." It's polite and if she says it over and over again, by the time the teacher notices, she will see your daughter as the polite one and the other one as the bully. The more confidence your daughter has, the less interested the bullies will be in bothering her.
Not to sound harsh, but the world is harsh and poopy. People will target the soft spoken because they are deemed weak. Help your daughter find her voice instead of stepping in, from your post it sounds like high school. The world will eat her alive if you do not let her find her empowerment. She needed to tell that other girl to "shut up and do your finish YOUR work." If she allows them to talk to her any way they want then they will continue the behavior. You are not always going to be there. I used to be that girl, quiet, unassuming and picked on. I found that once you start speaking up for yourself, people are less likely to say anything in the first place because you are no longer an easy target. I am not saying she has to act like she is going to kick their butts but a little assertiveness goes a long way. I know it breaks your heart to see her hurt. Good luck.
Honestly, yes. I think the teacher isn't telling you the whole truth. I would listen to your daughter and document everything. Be your daughter's advocate. Bullying is awful and this needs to be stopped immediately. It may not seem like a big deal for some,but to those who have been bullied as a child----you will understand exactly what I am talking about. Start talking to your child about assertive ways she can "fight back" without fighting of course- so the bully child or children get the point.
Is there any way you can volunteer in her classroom and see if you can observe some of this?
Best wishes.
M
Like the teacher said....... sometimes it's hard to tell. I know this is difficult for you, but instead of obsessing over it give your daughter some tools to find the answers on her own.
When your child asked, "Why was the girl acting mad at me." Tell her (if you didn't) that you don't know but next time ask her the other girl... Give her communication tools. ....... "You sound mad at me? Are you?" or, "Why does it make you feel good to tell me what to do?"
I would also focus on finding your daughter friends, possibly out of school through clubs or classes not affiliated with the school. This may help her to socialize and build her self-esteem.
You're a good Mom. You are paying attention and looking for ways to help and protect your daughter. I think that is really great. I'd advise to check out the potential teachers for next year now and meet with the principal to help him/her choose a teacher that you think would be a good fit to help your daughter grow next year.
As a former teacher, we can't do everything and really you should be teaching your children your own values. One teacher per 14+ kids cannot do everything.
The basics of Queen Bee behavior is to make themselves look better by putting someone else down. She only wanted the glory and had to do whatever it took to get that attention. The teacher may be wiser than you think by ignoring this behavior-some children relish any attention-even from negative behavior!
What you must do is teach your child that the only "boss" during school is adults. She does not have to do anything else for anyone else at any time during the school day which includes lunch and recess.
Next year, it will be someone else and will continue until she is older and maybe even at work.
