Fair Share

Fair share is If I pay 10% of what I earn in a year, then the person that makes, $250,000, $500,000, etc should also pay 10%

I am earning what I can, they are earning what they can.. It is still 10%.

I think that by "fair share" means that everyone pays the same amount. If I pay $66,000, so should everyone else. If someone pays only $10,000, that is how much everyone should pay. Flat tax. Why is someone's "share" more than another person's just because he is more enterprising/educated/hard working/"lucky"/whatever than another person? If people really want fair, then they should want fair. It sounds more like some people want revenge or something.I don't get it. It doesn't work when we redistribute the wealth and keep everyone "equal." People lose their drive for success if it is just taken away and given to someone else who won't work as hard.

It’s true that the top 1 percent of wage earners paid 38 percent of the federal income taxes in 2008 (the most recent year for which data is available). But people forget that the income tax is less than half of federal taxes and only O.-fifth of taxes at all levels of government.

Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance taxes (known as payroll taxes) are paid mostly by the bottom 90 percent of wage earners. That’s because, once you reach $106,800 of income, you pay no more for Social Security, though the much smaller Medicare tax applies to all wages. Is that a fair share?

What about hedge fund managers? Do you think that's OK that they pay NOTHING until their wealth grows for decades? Is that a fair share?

Frank and Jamie McCourt, who own the Los Angeles Dodgers, have not paid any income taxes since at least 2004, their divorce case revealed. Yet they spent $45 million O. year alone. How? They just borrowed against Dodger ticket revenue and other assets. To the IRS, they look like paupers. Is that a fair share?

Added: Most INFORMED voters know that the Governor of NY is Mario Cuomo, and Michael BLOOMBERG is the mayor of New York City? Whoooooops!

I agree that this system is broke. Another problem is having husbands and wives paying the same rate of tax. My husband makes considerably more per year than I do. By the time he pays taxes, insurance, mortgage, and commutes to work with high gas prices, keeps his car running so he can work, there's little left over. And yet, I'm paying the same rate of taxes he pays. So it makes it impossible for me to get a part-time job or even consider working outside the home because I'm not educated enough to make a decent wage. It's hard to pay 50% in taxes (when all taxes are combined), when a person is making a small amount of money to begin with.

I'd be glad to give up my tax breaks if it was more fair all the way around.

Once again it depends.. If we are going to publicly fund all kinds of medical research, misc. research programs, pet projects (pork spending), throw more and more money towards elementary education, bail out big companies, increase college grand money, give our politicians nice retirements, stimulate the economy with one plan after another, re-build peoples lives after every flood, earthquake, hurricane, or tornado, send our young men all over the world on so called peace keeping missions, then re-build those same countries we bomb, support massive political campaigning, ..... add, add, add a few hundred more programs each year... Then no, it's not enough money.

We could cut the pork, trim the necessary programs, bring our politicians retirement plans in line with the average USA citizens, and leave business ALONE to the survival of the fittest, and we would not need more money from the wealthy.

Here is my take on everything. Flat tax, say 10%, no deductions. Oh to whoever that weirdo was that posted on my thread last week, a flat tax is the same rate as everyone else, not a sales tax.

There is something very wrong with a system that requires a professional to get what is coming to you. I say this being an accountant. I am not worried there are still plenty that can't do math, I will be fine.

Someone who makes $50,000 shouldn't be exempt from taxes when another guy making $50,000 pays $7,500 in taxes. Someone making $30,000 shouldn't pay 1,700 (my retired father) when another making $30,000 gets an extra 2,300 plus any withholding (earned income tax credit)

Someone who makes millions shouldn't pay 17% when someone who makes 300,000 pays 33%!

The system is broken, taxing the rich and giving the money to anyone with a good accountant or can play the system is just not right!

This is an interesting question, but most people (my self included) just don't have the information to answer it. Which is why we elect a government to deal with these questions, and why we need to be very careful about who we vote for. People making $250k a year are probably NOT paying $66k in taxes because they can hire people to game the system and get them out of paying taxes. And some of the other Mamas points about the cap on social security etc. are well taken. Why should the poor have to pay 9% SS/Medicaid tax when someone making $300k is only paying 3%?

Here is an interesting point-- and I was told this by someone who is pretty high up at the IRS (and have also seen it in print in a number of magazines so it is *probably* true). If corporations simply paid the taxes that they owe under the current system-- even with all the loopholes-- individuals would have to pay NO income tax. Not a dime. Not any individual, no matter how rich he or she is. Corporations are simply not paying what they owe, and we are getting stuck having to pay and still having huge deficits.

Personally, I never mind paying taxes. I believe taxes are the price of living in a civilized country. I am successful because I was educated (through tax dollars). I am healthy and can work because I have (mostly) clean air and (mostly) clean water and can buy food that was inspected and regulated, was vaccinated from diseases that would have killed me 100 years ago, etc. I can be successful because I slept all night secure in the knowledge that my family was safe and that if something happened, the police or firefighters were going to come. I have a job to go to because somebody built the roads I drove on to get here. No body is successful on his or her own, and people who think they are just don't see how dependent we all are on one another. But even further than that, I am successful because I was born intelligent, and to a family that loved and cared for me, neither of which are anything I had anything to do with. So, do I mind paying taxes? No. As my dad always says, "You can't pay taxes if you don't make any money." And I am grateful every day that I have money to pay taxes.

I would LOVE to make $250,000 and pay $66,000 in taxes...

For me...as a single mom...with a dead beat dad...it would be UN imaginable wealth...

Guess it is all a matter of perspective!

***And...BTW...dead beat dad was making that much before the divorce...now all the sudden...not so much!

Michele/cat

***ETA...my thought was that the 'flat tax' idea meant EVERYONE paid the same percentage...a flat percentage...few loopholes for anyone...correct me if I am wrong***

There are many problems that the government is facing right now. Taxes are just one of the issues that needs to be addressed and reevaluated. Do you know that companies, many companies, are making Billions of dollars in Profit and pay NO taxes? It is true. Why are they allowed to make Billions when families do not get the same tax breaks and refunds? The "rich" also make more and pay less percentage wise than do "low" or "mid" income families. There are many different tax breaks, refunds, and loop holes that the "rich" have access to that others do not.

If the two groups I have mentioned payed their share, there would be more money for everyone. If everyone paid 10 or 15 percent of their income, NO tax breaks, refunds, or loopholes it would be a "fair" system. Then it would be great if that money was used for people who needed it, not for the foolish subsidies that are being dished out to those who can get crazy bills passed.

But remember...fair is not giving everyone the same thing, fair is giving everyone what they need to be successful.

There are a lot of problems out there that won't get solved until the folks in DC start working for the people of this country instead of their own glory and power. It should not be democrat vs. republican...non of us win when that is the order of business.

I'm not independently wealthy but I do well by getting very educated, working my butt of and have increased my income and responsibilities. I would LOVE to pay what a person making 25K does per year in taxes! I certainly do not have access to more benefits than that person making 25K so I personally wish I could keep more of my money.

Where I live, $250k is nowhere near 'wealth'. In Manhattan, you'll be lucky to afford to rent a 2 bedroom apartment on $250k.

:(

I don't think it has as much to do with rich or poor and the ammount of taxes the upper lever earners make. I think it has everything to do with how the government spends it. As long as that money is mis-spent then it won't matter how much money we take in from taxes. I think the focus is on the absolute wrong point. Not by posters, but by the candidates, the news, everyone.

I think there is so much misspending it's crazy, and everyone wants the deficit down as long as it doesn't cut THEIR program. Our country gives aide to every country in need, which is great in and of itself, but we have our own children that are hungry, we have our own people who can't find work. I mean, think about it as a mom (or dad). If you were busting your butt to make money, would you feed someone else's children first, or your own. Would you protect someone else's family first or your own. And would you let your kids go hungry, or scared, or without shelter while you filled another childs plate, gave another child a bed, protected another childs well being.

We've lost all common sense, and that's the problem.

ETA - Preach S.L.M.! I wonder how many people know that if a person serves even one term in the congress he gets his paycheck for the rest of his life, along with benefits like medical. We are a military family and my husband has to put in 20 years to get a percentage of his income. When the govt. was going to shut down they already changed his pay statement and we were getting half of our pay and none for the next pay period, but it is illegal to freeze or cut congress's pay without a vote...wait for it....by the congress! Who else here gets to choose their own salary that isn't self employed? RIDICULOUS!

I think everyone's percentages should be about the same, EXCEPT the people making such low salaries that they can't survive by forking over the same % that a millionaire could easily contribute. You shouldn't be homeless and in debt after taxes when you work full time because your living wage is less than the cost of basic housing, utilities and food, in addition to being uninsured and not having access to decent schools.

Not every single person in the country has the option and foundation to grow into a high earning position, nor are there enough high paying positions for all. I have worked extremely hard my entire life and STILL realize I was privileged to be able to work that hard with an educated stable background as a foundation. I don't feel like people with less are "less worthy" than me like so many people frowning on low earners.

The same way your sales tax on an expensive item is going to be more than on a cheap one, a big salary is going to equal more tax. I don't have any wealthy friends hurting for money after April 15th each year. My wealthiest friends are democrats who think they should be paying higher taxes, and give a lot to charity.

I've earned decent salaries in the past and had no problem paying "more" than people who make smaller salaries.

I've lived in countries where people are happily taxed 50% (Germany and France). Our taxes really aren't that high here. It's just hard for the poor to afford. Especially if they need to pay for private medical insurance and college educations. Which people in countries who tax more don't have to pay. And they're on vacation 3 months out of the year in those countries. PAID. With no student loans to pay back or medical debt. They wouldn't trade their high taxes for our situation.

$250k in the DC region is FAR from rich...you're lucky to stay middle class that way. And it is not fair to pay more because you went and bettered yourself to provide for the people who do not care to improve their situation. A flat tax seems fair, but I haven't done my research there. I think socialism is ignorant, and the rich should NOT pay for the poor. Money earned is just that...and I certainly do not plan on forking my check over to the people who want to sit on their butts. My current schedule involves me working 9 hour days, taking my kids to and from their activities, plus busting my tail on my MBA EVERY night. I make good money for 28, but why should any of that go to anyone else outside of my family? We need a Government that will respect the money that people earn and hold everyone accountable, not the mess we have now.

I am military so you paying your taxes it actually funding our paycheck.

Saying that I also think it is unfair. Ex: here in Hawaii a very small condo is a million dollars, milk is 5.50 a gallon and fesh fruit/veggies are on sale at double of the mainland full prices!

I know many people that cn not afford to have 2 kids and mom and dad have to work full time to make ends meet!

If they lived in Kansas making as much as they do here they would be able to own a 5 bedroom home on an acre of land and eat lobster every night! The fact is they make 250,000 but here that means they are middle class while else where it would mean they were rich! It is the reason that there should be a flat tax. Also saying the poor shouldn't pay taxes is kinda dumb too as the poverty line here is something like 35000 a year... While in other areas that would be a living wage!

It is why I think a flat tax would be best.

A person making $250K with 6 kids in a high cost of living area is not the same as someone making $250K with no kids in a low cost of living area.

A person on disability or working in the military getting welfare or other government aid is not the same as that person who is lazy and choose to live off the system.

So I think a money value is not fair, but since everyone should pay their own fair share of taxes to cover the needs of the citizens who can or cannot afford to do so, then a fair tax should be in place, but not a flat fair tax, but a fair tax based on your specific situation/circumstances.

So just like stores market based on demographics, I think the govt should levy taxes based on demographics as well.

Why leave out State and social taxes from this example?

In regard to statutory payroll withholding, you're typically looking at close to 37% of your income going towards tax withholding:

25% FIT
6% SIT (some states have a lower SIT but higher sales tax; others have high SIT and low sales tax... Let's just say 6% for this example.)
4.2% FICA (until the annual ceiling is met)
1.45% Medicare
0.08% SDI (again, let's use an common rate)

Then add additional FIT and SIT rates to get to your tax bracket... Maybe 3-5% more in FIT and 2-3% more in SIT. So, it's probably closer to 45% for upper-middle class income.

Yeah, 45% !!! HALF!

Now, this is my understanding... everyone pays the same tax on the same amount of income earned. (Note, I'm not a CPA; talk to your tax advisor for specifics.) This means, EVERYONE pays the same tax rate on the first $15,000 in income... Everyone pays the same rate on income earned between, say $15,001 to $50,000... Everyone pays the same rate on income earned between $50,001 to $125,000... etc. (Again, these dollar amounts are examples, look at the IRS website to get the real tax rates and income brackets). The reason I'm familiar with this is because we had some stock gain recently and I thought our entire annual income would be taxed at a higher rate--until our CPA explained that only a certain amount (that which went into the new level) would be taxed at the higher rate.

Now, worth mentioning, the tax man is very shrewd at collecting taxes and confusing everyone on how the taxes work. Really its not in the IRS's interest for us to understand clearly how we are taxed--We wouldn't make as many mistakes and end up double paying. Different types of income is treated different... And what you pay in taxes depends on what type of income you have... Short term gain, Longterm gain, ordinary income... what can off-set/reduce your declared income (as in longterm gain can be offset by longterm loss, but short term gain cannot be off-set by longterm loss; ordinary income cannot be off-set by capital loss; etc.) And of course, it might not matter what your ordinary tax calculations & deductions would allow you pay in taxes if your AMT income is higher than your ordinary income calculations... in that case, your AMT income determines what you pay in taxes.

Looking at the family making $250,000: They will probably pay the same rate as the family making, generally speaking, $150,000 because the tax rate is applied to a range of income between (for example) $125,000 to $264,000. Once you earn $265,000 then every dollar over that threshold is taxed at a different rate, until you hit the next level of income and tax rates.

This is my understanding... But again, I'm not a CPA.

POST EDIT: Honestly, it amazes me that we spend so much time running around & bargain shopping and coupon clipping... trying to save $5 here, $10 there... BUT THE REAL WAY TO SAVE MONEY IS UNDERSTANDING HOW YOU ARE TAXED AND HOW YOU CAN REDUCE YOUR TAXES. We pay a CPA to do our taxes--Did you know that you can deduct the cost of tax preparation from your taxes?! If you can deduct the cost of a professional tax preparer (and use all his/her knowledge to your benefit), why wouldn't you use a CPA?

Flat tax would be the way to go...but it'll never fly in Washington because there are too many special interest groups that would fight it.

The $66,000 figure seems fair to me. I believe that the wealthy who are living off of investments only should be paying taxes on their gains at the same rate that they would pay if that money were their income. I think this is the sticking point for people who complain that the wealthy don't pay their fair share. Investments aren't taxed at the same rate, so the uber-wealthy who don't have to work and can just live off investments don't pay their "fair share."

J.C.- I never looked at Mr. Buffet's return, but, he probably does pay a lower "effective" tax rate than his secretary. Also, when you sell your investments, you are only taxed on the gain. Proceeds from sale of investments - cost of investment (initial investment + reinvested dividends + cost of sale) = Taxable Gain.

I wouldn't have part of my job to do anymore - but, IMO - the answer is a flat percentage. Scrap the deductions, exemptions, tax brackets, credits, complicated tax laws, AMT, marriage penalty, etc. Everyone should pay the same percentage.

Hi, J.C.
I was wondering how many people on this conversation line go to
their City Council meetings, their School Board meetings, their Party's (Democrat, Republican, Tea Party, etc.), andd Civic club meetings to determine the needs of their community?

Anybody can sit in their chairs and give an opinion about anything their heart desires, but who gets out there and does something about their concerns.
Just wondering.
D.

I'm all for across the board taxing, everyone paying the same % and forgetting the kazillions of pages/deductions. Making those who earn $250,000+ pay more taxes makes no sense because cost of living is different everywhere and the same salary in one location maybe much higher/lower than elsewhere. Taxing (penalizing) people more because they spend below their means and doing what they want (legally) with their savings makes no sense. The government having ANY say in taxes, while they overspend, overpromise, borrow (at extreme high rates no less) and porkbarrel makes no sense.

We make just a tad over qualifying for WIC, but we're debt free and put away for savings. There's some investing with the extra. When/if that investing gives us more, we do sooooo much more thru charity than the government would do with taxes.