Ferber Method - Groton,CT

Hello J.; My son had his days and nights backwards. I finally had to try to switch him to night sleeping.I started letting him cry for a couple of minutes the 1st night and added another minute every night. I will say that it was very difficult hearing him cry but within 10 days he was sleeping fine. If he did wake up all I had to do was let him know I was there by rubbing his back.

I feel, in my opinion, when under the age of 1, I feel you need to do what ever baby needs to do to sleep. If she needs to be fed, rocked, swaddled, pacifiers, etc..etc...etc.. I wouldnt try any sort of sleep training, CIO, or other methods until baby is over 1 yr old.

I know that the asker has already responded to this request, but I read through them and I just felt I had to answer to some of the comments made here.

I had my kids long before Ferber ever "invented" his "method". I nursed all of my kids on demand and one of them long past one year of age. I was a stay at home mom and frankly, tending to the children's needs when they were infants was paramount.

All of my children are grown. They are intelligent, well adjusted and healthy.

I never "gave in" and fed my kids junk food, in fact none of my children tasted sugar until they were at least two (and not by my consent). I home-made all their baby food, the kids ate all natural, organics, etc. etc. etc. blah blah.

There were problems in my marriage and problems as a result economically and I can tell you without a doubt that without the security and comforting my children received, I don't think that either I or they would have made it through those tough years as emotionally intact as they are. The nursing helped to form a bond that insulated them from the outside world and had me as the center of a universe undeterred by outside influences.

My children actually have exhibited better self control and discipline than most of their peers as I was a strict parent, but in a positive learning appropriate way. I am certain as well that the strong bonding with their mother and the strong sense of security they had assisted this. They weren't whiners, criers nor did they exhibit serious emotional problems. Each was an individual that was allowed to develop as such.

Sure, I'm from a different generation, but please folks, there was life before "sleep training". Frankly, I came from a generation that resented the rigid potty training routines, Freudian rationalized sexism and structure of the 40's and 50's. I had a philosophy of free development for my children. I didn't time them, didn't push them, only stimulated them as much as possible and nurtured them as much as possible.

So, please have an open mind will you? Stop characterizing all non-Ferber children as lazy, junk-food swilling, tube watching slobs (or their parents for that matter)!

Oh and for the record, we never had cable and most of the time no television for years (even now), which I guess was what gave them advanced reading levels as well.

So there. (sticking out tongue at Ferber snobs)

a 5 mo old with bad habits! give me a break! if you aren't tending to your your baby's sleep needs now , get ready for bigger ones down the road. Crying it out is shameful!!!!

Well, first thing. Rocking and pacifiers are NOT bad habits.

She is five months old. She is still very, very, very new. Right now, her cries mean "I need you, mommy, I need you right now". For a five month old, there is no difference between a 'want' and a 'need'.

Crying it out is grossly inappropriate for such a young baby. You'd be teaching her that she can't trust you.

When a baby starts sleeping through the night due to a crying it out method, it ISN'T because he's learned sleep is good, or because he feels happy in his crib. It's because he's learned that no one cares enough to come.

It's the same phenomenon in orphanages...it's eery. Rooms full of babies...all perfectly silent. They are silent because they're neglected. They haven't developed appropriate attachments with caregivers.

Americans have this weird idea that we should push our babies to grow up as fast as possible.

Right now your baby needs you. She needs to be rocked, and swaddled, and cuddled and nursed to sleep. She needs you to respond instantly to her cries.

You have all the time in the world to push her towards independence...when she is developmentally ready. A five month old infant is not developmentally ready for independence. It's not biologically appropriate.

Enjoy these months. Trust me on this ;)

Hi J.. 5 months is too young for the Ferber Method.
If she is sucking on her fingers, try swaddling her with one arm out. Use the Kiddopotamus swaddles - they stay on much better.
There are a couple of books out there that are much better when it comes to sleep training advice:
The No Cry Sleep Solution and the Baby Whisperer Solves all your problems.
I don't think 5 months is too young to start sleep training, but it is too young to let her CIO.
There is no problem rocking your little one to sleep - I used to do it too. And do enjoy it!
I only found it to be a problem when I started to put her down and she would wake up, or she would not stay asleep long - and not know how to put herself back to sleep without rocking. I did not want to rock her to sleep all night long, and I tried co-sleeping (it did NOT work for us), so at that point I got into sleep training. It was hard work, but I chose much gentler methods.
I hope this helps!

Well, I probably am not saying anything new here, but my son is the same age as your daughter (5 mos on tuesday) and we have had some of the same questions you have! We gradually got out of the swaddling thing by taking one arm out for a week or so (we used the Kiddopotomus wraps, they worked great!) and then both arms out, then the sleep sack, then nothing. This is such a crazy time because so much is changing for them all at once. We transitioned to the crib, out of the swaddle (because he was fighting his way out), got rid of the sleep positioner (because he was trying to roll around off of it), used the crib for naps (instead of the swing)...that's a lot for such a little person! Some of these changes were in response to what we thought he was "telling" us, but some were just because it was time. Anyway, my point is that with all that going on, it may not be the best time to throw CIO or Ferber on her, too. If she still gets up once to eat (my son does, too...usually around 3 or 4, he goes to bed around 8:30), she probably really needs that meal. The thing that helped Jake the most was having the freedom to move in the crib and get in a position that was comfortable for him. Without the swaddle and the sleep positioner, he can flip and flop around in the crib until he gets comfortable (he seems to be a side sleeper). I usually nurse or rock him to sleep (or close to sleep) and then put him down and let him get comfy. Your daughter may just need a little freedom to find her sweet spot! Hope this helps, good luck!

J.,
I have read all the posts to date and am amazed at how many are so comfortable with the CIO method. It wasn't until I read the first post from Joanna S. that I finally agreed wholeheartedly. I have a 9 month old girl who has been sleeping with me since she was about 4 weeks old. She is my 3rd girl and they were all different. My 1st slept 6-8 hrs by 2 months old, my 2nd daughter didn't sleep "thru the night" until 10 months old.
BUT, now after sleeping with her and nursing her whenever she woke up, she has been sleeping about 10 hrs with one waking to nurse and go back into her crib. I admit I was getting a bit frustrated with having to sleep with her and her kicking and squirming. And there were nights that I'd put her in her crib and she'd wake up an hour later & I'd end up taking her into my bed right from the start. But I believe that with all the attention and love and cuddling and nursing that she is a better sleeper because of it. I only use one thing to help her sleep and that's a CD of sleepy kids' music. I used it with my 1st & she loved it. I just slowly weaned her off of it by playing fewer and fewer songs.
My first child LOVED the pacifier and I am a huge believer in using them. She would wake up during the night & all I did was pop it back into her mouth and off she'd go to sleep. My 2nd child liked it too but not as much as the 1st. HOWEVER, I admit that I wasn't as persistent with my 3rd (and last) and she NEVER wanted a pacifier OR a bottle. So for a while I felt like a human pacifier! BUT, she's crawling and pulling up to stand already & I think the extra activity really gets her tired out and ready to sleep.
If you and your husband plan to have more children, you'll understand what I mean about the peacefulness at night with the youngest. But enjoy it all now because it is just you and her and in a few years I guarantee you'll look back on this time & think, "Where did my baby go??" She'll be 2 or 3 yrs old, talking and dressing herself, and going on the potty, and taking swimming lessons or gymnastics or something and you'll wish you could "hold your baby as a baby just a few more times!" I know because I am watching my youngest of 3 girls grow up SO fast, I cherish EVERY moment even when I am totally exhausted!! Good Luck!!

Try one of those swaddle wraps that snap closed or the blanket bags that zip she might sleep better if she doesn't unwrap herself. I also rocked my oldest son til he was 2 when he moved into his big boy bed it took a few nights but he realized that was where he needed to stay and has slept fine ever since. I also rock my youngest until he is almost asleep and place him in his crib if he cries I go back in put my hand on his back and tell him its okay mommy is there and he goes to sleep. You may also want to try a binkie it won't damage her teeth just help her soothe herself. If your daughter is still feeding once during the night than she isn't ready to sleep train so enjoy those quiet times at night when its just you and her and she's feeding those are some of the best moments.

Hi J., I don't have any specific info for your question about the Ferber method, but I did have two thoughts that came to mind as i read your message:

1) We have been using the Miracle Blanket with our daughter who is now 4 months old. She does get her arms out of it sometimes, but from what we've experienced and heard from others, this is the best swaddling optin, over all the others. We plan on using this until we absolutely can't and hope she'll just transition from being swaddled to rolling over and sleeping on her stomach (wishful thinking, perhaps!)

2) From about 4 weeks on, I have stopped unswaddling her for her nighttime feeding (usually between 2 and 4 am) and found that she never (believe it or not!) has trouble getting right back to sleep. She never poops during her sleep, so there isn't any reason to change her- I know this sounds counter intuitive, but I talked to our pedi, lactation consultant and have read several places not necessary to change pee diapers right away, espcially if it interrupts sleep.

Hope this is helpful.
S.

Wow - this is hard. Look at the different advice you got!

I think how you sleep train your child is VERY dependent on your temperment, your baby's temperment and your baby's age.

5 mos is young for the Ferber method, but I do not think it is to young to start sleep training. That does not mean you have to let your baby scream her head off either.

I too, like most moms, did the rocking etc... to sleep. As some moms suggest you can continue to do this, and should as long as your baby needs you to.
That is certainly one approach and a very loving and patient one.
I did it as long as I could and DID enjoy it, but then it got to be too much. I was NEVER sleeping, and neither was my little one. The older she got the more rocking she required. I could nurse her to sleep, but then if I moved a muscle she would wake up. I tried bringing her into bed with me and my hubby, and she had no intentions of sleeping there!
I was SO sleep deprived I tripped down a my stairs while HOLDING my baby. I knew something had to change. I NEEDED sleep, I was not enjoying rocking and boucing her to sleep anymore, and she was getting heavy! My baby needed to learn to sleep on her own.

I felt guilty about it, and I know babies in other countries hardly cry, and stay with their moms all day and night. But you know what? I was only half a mom without any sleep.
I was not enjoying it anymore. AND we DO live in America, and my baby is an American! A lot of us get up the next dday and have to go to work, and some of us have no family around or cannot afford help.

However - I did use a gentler approach. I bought a stool and placed it next to her crib - as it was the same height as the mattress. I laid my torso down in her crib and soothed her to sleep. Some times she cried and cried, but she was never alone. Sometimes she just fussed and off she went to sleep.
It took a while, and there were some tears, but it was worth it in the end.

I also made her crib a fun place and played with he in it whenever she did wake up from a nap or in the am so she thought of it as a fun and safe place.

We BOTH sleep now - much better.

HTH!

Sleepless nights are awful, I know. However 5 months is way too early to be thinking about the Ferber method, especially if she is still night feeding and/or you are nursing.
I do remember an article in the Wall Street Journal (see link below) a short while back interviewing Dr. Ferber and he was back peddling on his original theories. We tried his method with our 2nd child (who is now 12!) and were horrified when the article came out!
The "method", applied as originally written was very stressful, we still regret trying it.
If your daughter is able to self-soothe, all the better. I would suggest a white noise machine, we had great success with our 3rd child and the soft rain sound.
Here's the link to the article:
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB113202093371197166-...

Dear J.,
Ok..Just read about the Ferber Method and for the most part I have been doing it with my Daughter who also is almost 5 months. The only thing is that I got all my information from a book called Baby Wise.. How to give your infant the Gift of nightime sleep. But we have been doing it since she was 2 weeks old. The book goes trough and teaches you about being on a routine and how to be flexable with it but how to stick with it!! You can get your daughter on a sleep routine and it is hard but the beni's out weigh everything. My daughter sleeps 10 to 11 hours a night with 2.5 naps during the day..naps depend on if she is with me or her grammies, who watch her while I work. But even they are getting better with keeping her routine. Try whatever you want to but the best advice, I found, was in the book I mentioned. I now give it out as a gift to any first time mom, and I still go back and read over some chapters. Also.. is your daughter really hungry at night or does she wake up and expect to be fed because that is what you have been doing?? And allowing a pacifier at night has been shown to help prevent SIDS and she may just want to be sucking on something, not necessarly hungry...Also have you started her on cereal yet? That may help her to feel full longer at night. I hope I was able to help you and your hubby to get a FULL night sleep even if it wont be for a little while. Good Luck

Hi J.,

For what it's worth -- we had similar issues after rocking our baby to sleep each night for several months. I really enjoyed doing it, but obviously got my daughter into the habit of not being able to get herself to sleep. I always sang to her, and she really seemed to enjoy music. One gift I received was a voice-activated music box that came on when she cried and played music for five minutes. As the music played, a light came on (I had it clipped to her headboard, facing AWAY from the crib) and as it progressed, the light slowly dimmed and the music did as well, until it went completely quiet.

She seemed to respond well to it, and if she kept fussing, I would reach my hand into her crib and hold her hand (without talking to her). This was enough to soothe her and I would slowly pull my hand out of her grasp while the music played (about 5 minutes).

One other option is to cover her with an afghan with some heft (if you're able to keep the room somewhat cool so she doesn't get overheated). The weight of the afghan kept her from moving around and waking herself up, and almost immediately, she was sleeping through. I would suggest a crocheted afghan that has holes incorporated in the design, so it's breatheable, but made with a heavier weight yarn.

One other suggestion is for you to wear a t-shirt to bed for a couple of nights so it picks up your scent. Place it in her crib and lay her on it when she goes to sleep. Just the scent of you may be enough to get her back to sleep when she's still groggy, but wants comfort.

Good luck to you!

I have a 10 month old son. We did the Ferber method with him when he was almost 7 months old. It is about a week of torture- followed by bliss. We have a great night time routine; bath at 5:15 dinner in his highchair from 5:45-6:15, play time and then bed at 7:00. At 7 we go upstairs and I rock him and he has a bottle. When the bottle is done he goes in his crib- awake/asleep it doesn't matter.
In the beginning he would cry and we would go in every 10 minutes and rub his back. It would take anywhere from 10 min to an hour to get him down. Less at first and then after 3 days he would fight it for as long as he could. Whatever you do do not pick her up, or it will not work, she will think "if I just cry a little more Mom will break..." We would do the same thing if he woke during the night to eat.
With in a week he would go to bed without a sound and do the same through most of his naps. He also stopped getting up during the night because he had learned to self soothe. He now sleeps 7-6:30 every night and wakes up happy. If he fusses at night we keep to the 10 minute rule. If he fusses more than 10 minutes or if he actually cries we go right in and get him, rock him bottle, whatever he wants because you know he REALLY needs something. My son was always swaddled as well and once he was able to roll over we let him sleep on his belly and that seemed to make him so much more comfortable. He now sleeps with his arms under him, ankles crossed and bum in the air- a very cute tight little ball.

Hope this helps!!!

L.

Im not sure how the Ferber method works but I dont think there is anything wrong with a CIO mothod. I did it with all 3 of my boys around 3-4 months and they were not neglected and there is nothing wrong with them now. They are all great sleepers. If you do do it though you might want to wait until she is ready to give up the night feeding. I did it by giving my kids a pacifier and if they took it and went back to sleep then I gave up that night feeding. As long as she doesnt start crying real hard or screaming then it is ok for her to cry. I would give my boys a pacifier right before they would start crying hard then soon they wouldnt even need the pacifier to get back to sleep. Anyway dont feel bad if this is something you want to try.

I agree with most of the previous posts. Binkies and snuggles with mommy are not bad habits. They are providing comfort that your little one needs. Personally, I do not believe in Ferber for any age but especially for an infant. My girls have both learned to sleep through the night without Ferber. My youngest was 2 when she learned so it takes longer if you choose not to let them cry it out but it was so worth it. My girls are 2 and 4 and they both still snuggle to sleep with me. It is time that all 3 of us treasure and there have never been tears when I say it is bedtime.

Is she rolling over yet? If she is, you might want to slowly break her of the swaddle. If she is swaddled and rolls over, it might become a safety issue. I had to do that with my 4.5 month old at 3 months. I started with taking just one arm out of the swaddle for a few nights, then the next arm for a few more nights. Following that, I took her out completely. It seemed to help the transistion for her.

Rocking, swaddling, soothing, feeding are not bad things. What you decide to do to get her to sleep is a personal choice between you and your husband.

For us the CIO method was the right choice. The experts say you can use this (or the gentler Ferber method) between 4-6 months. I returned to work at 12 weeks post partum and dealt with sleepless nights for 5 weeks after. I was having a difficult time functioning during the day with just a few hours of interrupted sleep, so I needed to to it for me. It was the hardest night ever (it is emotionally taxing to listen to your baby cry for an extended period of time), but it worked in one night. The next night she slept for 9.5 hours.

With our son we did the ferber method. It took longer (2 weeks), but it was a gentler way of CIO.

Whatever you do, J., it needs to be right for you and your husband. Whatever decision you make, good luck.

i would say get rid of the feeding first. i did the ferber at 5 months because all of the sudden my daughter was waking up a couple of times and i would nurse her to go back, but then it was an everynight thing. so i read to get rid of a feeding to nurse for a minute less each night until her stomach gets used to less and less milk. but if you are bottle feeding i am sure doing an ounce less each time would have the same results. but after that, the ferber method was the best thing i ever did. she was 5 months and it only took 3 nights. but your husband will have to hold you back. you will feel bad, but she'll never remember it. good luck

First of all you're already creating a "habit" by swaddling and rocking her. She now can't fall asleep without it... With my son who is now 16mo old I used an Avent pacifier witch never left the crib. It was strictly for sleepy time only. I also tried not to let him fall asleep in my arms, as soon as he started rubbing his eyes and sounding sleepy I put him right to bed and just walk away... some times he would cry for a minute or two but then fall sound asleep.

Get a pacifier! It dosen't have to become a bad habit.

I have friends who did not use pacifiers and there kids started sucking there thumb or fingers for comfort "talk about a hard habit to break..." Just remember you can take a pacifier away when it's time but not thumbs and fingers...LOL. Also a few more tips, try to do the same things every night around the same time... like around 8:30pm every night we brush our teeth together then I change him, put Breck's lavender baby lotion on him, get his PJ's on and lay him down 9:00 lights out- night light on- WALK AWAY... I think the lotion helps a lot cause to him that smell means "bedtime"- wake her up about the same time too, this will help to set her body clock.

It may be hard to break what you're doing now so instead of rocking her to sleep you may want to start out lying beside her (close enough so that she can feel you breathing, it is a familiar rythem that may comfort her.) Once shes asleep put her in her own bed.

As far as the swaddling thing? I don't know I never did it.
I did use the little sleep sack outfits with no arms to keep him from scraching him self. Hoped this helped.

I never let my son CIO, I just felt it was not going to work for him...or me. I was greatly criticized by many but I continued to rock him and snuggle him to sleep at night and naptime. We did try to stick to a schedule & routine but it always included a snuggle, song or story and lots of snuggling and rocking & sometimes jsut walking around in a sling. He never liked being swaddled and is a finger sucker so I kept his hands available to him for self-soothing. He is just over a year now and can be put down in his crib awake and falls asleep without a tear! I think this began maybe sometime around 7 or 8 mos...I can't remember but I do know, as previous post mentioned, that our pre-bedtime snuggle is still a ritual and very valuable to both of us, the only difference is that now he can be put down awake.

Good luck and please do what you feel is best for you & your little one, take the advice from friends, family and experts and adapt it to your needs and wants. And if it feels right DO IT!! ESPECIALLY if its working for you!

I would look at the Baby Whisperer for a gentler CIO -- although this is only if you are really set on CIO. I think that there are gentler more gradual ways of getting your child to fall asleep on her own. It will just take longer and require you to be patient. I also think the binkie is a life saver and have no problem with using it.

Clearly this question has hit a lot of people right in a sensitive spot. I just have to say that whatever you decide to do, really think it out and then do what's right for you. If you love rocking your baby to sleep and just feel like you "shouldn't," keep right on rocking your baby to sleep and just know that's the way you parent. If, however, bedtime is totally stressful for you, your baby weighs a million pounds (mine was already 23 lbs at 5 months, so rocking for extended periods of time was actually backbreaking), or you just think its best for a baby to put themselves to sleep, then know that the baby will probably cry. Everyone makes different parenting choices - people who would never let their kids cry to fall asleep might let their kid eat more junkfood then you do, or watch more tv, or ride a bike without a helmet, or 900 million other choices you are also going to have to make as a parent.

We "ferberized" our daughter when she was a little over one year old exactly 2 years ago (it was my birthday, so I remember). It felt like torture listening to her cry. But she wasn't neglected - we went in after 5 minutes, then 10, then 15, just like Ferber says. We told her that we loved her and we knew she was unhappy, but she just had to learn to go to sleep. You know what? After one hour of crying, she laid down, went to sleep, slept through the night and was absolutely fine the next day. (And is still fine. She loves us, we love her, she's not the least bit neglected, etc). We didn't have any crying the next night at all. Now, obviously my daughter was older than yours, so you'll make the decision about when to "ferberize." I wouldn't at this age only because you don't know exactly why they're crying (hungry? teething? ear infection?) but I am not you.

My son is now nine months, and really needs to fuss for a couple minutes before he falls asleep. He doesn't scream, never really has, but he doesn't like to be rocked. He wants to be put down, roll around for a bit, let us know that he's still awake, and then fall asleep. Even still, when he's whining/crying it feels like forever listening in, but in reality it's almost never more than 5 minutes. Maybe we'll have to ferberize when he gets older, but this is his pattern now.

Did it "feel right" for my daughter to cry? Not exactly. She was unhappy, and as a parent I hate when my kids are unhappy. But my daughter is unhappy when I don't give her ice cream before dinner or let her hit her little brother or any number of other things. She cries then too. In my mind, learning how to fall asleep on her own and stay asleep through the night was something that she just had to learn how to do. So my best advice is, think about what you really want to do, when you want to do it, and then just ignore what everyone else says. Competitive mommying isn't good for anyone.

Just do it. It really does work. And, you would be starting it at a great time, when it's not too late that it becomes so painful for you. I started when my daughter was 18 months. That was a painful 3-4 nights of being up all night listening to crying straight throught the night. Now she is 7 1/2 and a wonderful girl. Totally well adjusted, independent and secure with herself. Being able to learn to soother themself to sleep has huge significance into their adult lives. Think of the larger picture --- the learning to soothe themself, not being completely dependent on your parent to help you to sleep and calm yourself. You would actually be teaching your baby a very powerful and helpful skill in life. Even at 5 months they learn to be independent from their parents. And you get to gain some sanity through the night! So when we had our second child, we immediately put our baby even at 2 weeks down to fall asleep on her own. She would get up, not crying but learned to entertain herself in her bed. I would walk in and find her up playing with her crib toys. Good luck. Just stay focused and disciplined and it will work!

"I know all about the "bad habits" of rocking, using a pacifer, etc. so we would want to break the habit(s)."
Those "bad habits" of rocking and cuddling my baby to sleep are the most precious memories I will have to look back on. It is hard to have your nights sleep interupted but in the grand scheme of things this time when your child is the most needy and it goes by in a flash.
Also, it is completely normal for a baby to be waking up at night. You are one of the lucky moms who has a baby who only wakes once. Soon she likely to wake more due to teething and developmental leaps. She may wake because of pain in her gums or anxiety due to learning new skills. She will really need the comfort and secutity that comes special from you. If you feel that you must sleep train there are gentler ways than CIO. You may want to check out "The Baby Sleep Book".
good luck and enjoy your little one.