Friend's Child Is Mean and Getting Violent

Mamasoncall did a good story on this. It's at http://mamasoncall.com/2010/03/mommy-he-hit-me/ and talks about how to deal with the mom and the kid.

You are your son's advocate first and foremost. Please do not put your friend's feelings or your friendship before your son's well being. Do not let him play with this child again. Can you imagine how your son feels knowing that your are continuosly putting him in a scary situation. I can tell you the answer is not good and also not as trusting towards you. You really should tell your friend why you aren't letting the kids play together anymore. That would be the best thing for her-sounds like she needs to hear it. But even if you are afraid to tell her you will need to make excuses. If you need to see her do it adults only.

How about this for a response the next time your friend suggests a playdate, "I'm sorry, but Johnny does not want to play with Sally anymore, I'm sure you can understand why he feels this way after what happened the last time. I wish things weren't like this but honestly, it doesn't seem like our children are very good playmates, so we'll just have to decline getting our kids together" See how she reacts. If you really cherish this friendship, offer an opportunity to get together, just the two of you, no kids, like dinner, movie, or coffee. If your friend gets all defensive, so be it. Your son's well-being is more important. You can hold your head high, knowing you were completely honest without ripping apart her child or her parenting skills, and most importantly taught your son that you don't stand by and keep being in the company of those you treat you so badly.

I would just tell my friend, I'm sorry but since the last time the kids played and your daughter drew blood with no reprocussions, I'm gonna have to say no. Maybe they can play together when they are older. If she asks you what you are talking about site the stair pushing and the eye incident. If she thinks you are over-reacting, thank her for the opinion and move on. If a parent can't correct their child do you really want to be friends with them anyway? Your son is almost pre-K age he'll make a whole bunch of new friends and you'll meet their moms and make a connection there.

Just say I'm sorry but i think its time that your daughter and my son take a break for a bit until your daughter learns a little better control. Tell her it is to hard for you watch him getting hurt so much. Maybe your friend needs that wake up to start to address the issues with her daughter.

Well every mother here has said it, time to break the connection. Is this the only mother that you connect with or are there other mothers you can socialize with?

I am from the old school that if you see that a child is being hurt by another you say something at that time. If the mother does not step up to the plate so to speak it is time to end the playdates. How would you feel if you were you son and that every time this girl is nearby you cringe because she is going to do something to you and your mom doesn't do anything to rescue you? Not a good scenario. He is not old enough to tell you.

Look at it this way, friendships are for seasons some long and some short. Yes, it will hurt to lose her but you will make new friends that are better. Put your son before the friend and protect him. I would have had a reaction to the deep scratch under the eye but the steps would have ended it.

Please trust you gut instinct and move on it and not let your son encounter any more mental and physical pain. The other S.

I agree - talk to your friend. You will be helping her and her little girl as it sounds like she needs some loving discipline. She's not "mean" just misdirected. If the talk doesn't go well and your friend isn't up for helping change the behavior that isn't acceptable, I would remove your child from the situation - at least for a while. I dont' know this little girl, but remember some kids are tougher to raise b/c of their disposition, your friend may be struggling and embarrassed that her child isn't as "well behaved" as she'd like. I'd approach it from a caring, but not condescending approach. Good luck.

Youn need to tell her mother no they cannot play togethr until her daughter can treat your son better. This little girl or her mother have no regard for yours sons feeling or well being. yes he will have to fight his own battles one day but not now! And how can you teach your son not to beat up girls( which i'm sure you have taught or will teach him) when he has one beating him up! He going to one get tired of her and may possibly hurt her worse then what she has done to him. that build of emotion and please don't underestimate his feelings about this situation. so i think you may have to let them go if the mother does nothing about her daughter's behavior. you lose friends in life sometimes and they may fall in that category. good luck.

Why can't you talk to your friend? Don't say her daughter is "mean and violent", but that you are concerned that she's more apt to act out than use her words when she wants something. That it seems that she is acting out more and your son is getting hurt, which is unacceptable. Ask your friend how you can resolve the situation together. That there are some rules for the two of them playing together and what should happen when one of the kids violates those rules.

Talk to the kids before hand, tell them that if they are going to push, shove or hit each other, the playdate will end - someone will go home. Remind them to use their words and not their hands or feet.

Little kids squabble and that's normal. Pushing down the stairs and drawing blood on another child and the parents do/say nothing? That's NOT normal. I'd find a new, close friend.

If they are really close enough and wonder why you are distancing yourself from them remind them what happened.

I suspect they won't even ask.

Blessings.....

I was in the exact same position with my best friend. Her sons were out of control and her attitude was 'boys will be boys'. Well that's fine except when my kids are the ones that are always battered and bruised after every play session. Speaking to her didn't do a thing so instead I was busy all the time. Never had time to play dates anymore but always seemed to have free time in the evenings to meet her for coffee after the kids were alseep.

So my advice is to avoid playdates with this child. If you do have a playdate meet somewhere like a park or mcdonald's playset. The first time the little girl does something out of line say something like 'ok next time it happens we're going to have to leave. I can't let my son get hurt when he's suppose to be having fun." And the next time pick up your stuff and leave. Your friend will get the picture or not. Either way your little boy won't be subjected to battering.

Well here is what you could do :). You could come up with a list of ways to decline getting together. They would range from vague " oh no we can't" to specific " oh I have a doctor's appointment" to in between " I am so swamped that day, count me out". Personally I would throw in " we just aren't up to it, he is still getting over this black eye". Also you can choose an approach that deflects blame if you are trying to be cautious with your friendship " I just don't know. My family is really starting to get on my case about all the injuries he is getting when he plays with your daughter" or be more direct " I love it when we get together, mommy friendships are so important but I just can't put my son through another injury. Maybe we can try again in a couple weeks but I am very concerned about your failure to step in and stop or prevent your daughter's violent behavior. She is young and needs your help as a parent to curb these tendencies to lash out. Plus I find it alarming that she laughs when my son is hurt. I just can't relax and enjoy the adult visit when I see my son being treated this way. As his mom I need to decline for now, but I will miss our adult friendship. Let me know if you have any ideas." Since you have mutual friends in common, you could decide with your husband that you will avoid this family unless it is a group gathering with the other friends, both you and your husband can attend, the two of you tag team it and don't leave your son's side through the visit and make sure nothing happens. You can do this and just not say anything unless asked why and then have a mutually agreed upon answer prepared. Bottom line, there are many ways to handle this and either attempt to preserve the frienship or not, BUT you should make sure that your son is not injured by this child again! This is not a situation for helping him develop his social skills. This is a situation where you as a parent can see potential for harm, and you do need to step it up and protect your son from further injury. Best of luck!

Be up front and honest with her. Maybe your candidness is what she needs as a wake-up call. And if the friendship is ruined then so be it, you need to protect your son first. You don't have to be mean about it. You can tell her that her child "has become very aggressive towards your son" and you are "just concerned about the safety of your son and until something changes you don't feel you can put your son's safety at risk." Good luck!

Everyone seems to be telling you to avoid playdates or talk to the mom.

I personally, would do neither, but discipline the little girl myself. If mom doesn't want to, I'll do it for her, without comment. If she objects, you can explain that there are ramifications in your house for bad behavior and that they apply to all kids. Period.
If mom's not giving her a time out, you do it.
If she's not responding to the time out, take toys away for a few minutes.

It's up to you to advocate for your child, and that will also teach him that it's not OK to behave that way. (I've been in this situation myself). On the flip side, he will learn to react to her in order to protect himself/toys, etc...
My son had this problem with a neighbor boy, and he now "works the system" and guards his territory with the other boy. They have a ton of fun together, but when the other boy acts up, mine shifts into defense mode. I have no problem taking toys away, scolding or removing this other boy from situations...and it has worked. He actually listens to me better than his mother.

Hi.
As a mom too, the answer is quite clear, don't expose your child to this little girl until her mother gets a handle on the girl's bad behavior. One of your most important jobs as a mom is to watch over and protect your son at this young age. I would call tis friend and be honest with her. You can tell her you'd like to meet with her without the kids for coffee or a soda to talk. When you meet her then calmly and nicely say that you have a big concern you have been wanting to talk to her about but have been reluctant too. Tell her that you really value her friendship, but for a while it is best that your kids no longer have play dates because of her daughter's aggressive and negative behavior. I imagine she will be upset and defensive, but tell her you have given it a few tries for them to play together and things are not working out. It sounds like your friend needs to get a handle on setting boundaries and disciplining her daughter and teaching her how to treat people nicely. Your child can not be the only child that is experiencing this little girl's wrath, so dont feel bad Mom, you have to do this asap. Then you need to explain to your son privately that you will not be playing with ..... for a while since she has not been playing nicely. Don't go into the details with him, keep it simple and don't say bad things about the girl or family in his presence if you hope to rekindle the friendship once the girl 's behavior problems have improved. Good luck mom , you can do this.

Next time she calls to plan a play date say something like "you know I've been thinking about how there is a lot of conflict when our kids play together and I seriously don't believe that their personalites mesh well. I think it would be a good idea to not have them play until their maturity levels mesh better". If she asks what you mean then give her a couple of examples and tell her your concerns about her daughter's way of playing and your son's way of playing, but kindly =-) They are just too different right now. Best of luck!

Hi, T.;
The parents are the problem.
You can not help the parents

I would write the parents a letter:

In it, tell her: Describe the incidents of what happened and then
tell her:

1. What you thought about when you realized what had happened.
2. What impact these incidents had on you and others.
3. What has been the hardest thing for you?
4. What you think needs to happen to make things right?

The parents need to be held accountable for the actions of their daughter. You can do it assestively without being mean. What you are doing is holding up a mirror so they can see their reflection. This is being loving.
Good luck. I support your decision. D.

I haven't read all of your responses here, but I do have an opinion. I'm guessing that you will continue to see these life long friends of your husbands. Even if you eliminate playdates, your families will likely still interact. When you are together supervise the children at play and correct the friends behavior every single time she is out of line. Do it respectfully and calmly. The other mother may be embarrassed or offended, but she will know it is time to control her daughter or you will. That includes informing the little girl whe she is being rude or hurtful and why it is wrong to behave that way. Tough little kids can handle proper adult intervention. Parents who convieniently miss their childrens terrible behavior tend to notice it when another parent begins to address it every time. Good luck!

It seems like most people have suggested that the children can't play together, but I'd like to suggest a middle ground (particularly since you mention that these are close friends)... I subscribe to a "my house, my rules" attitude with other people's children. If they are playing with my kids, I treat them the same way that I treat mine - they eat only where my kids are allowed to eat, they play only the way my kids are allowed to play, and they are subject to the same discipline as my kids. So far, I haven't had any issues, because I always explain to the child that "at my house, we don't do..." and kids are quick to understand the new boundaries :)

It is more challenging to reprimand or discipline someone else's child (although I have done it :0 with family or close friends) at their home or a mutually agreed upon location. I have found that the best way to do so is to use a "We don't do..." discussion directly to the child. Most of the time, the child is taken aback by the reprimand from someone other than a parent and responds well. If not, you may have to explain "I saw her doing... and didn't figure you'd want her doing that so I told her to stop" As long as it is something obviously wrong (I don't use this for nose-picking moments, just the big stuff), very few moms are going to argue when you phrase it this way. I have yet to lose any friends over it, but I have already decided that I'm comfortable with the choice (anyone who would let their child endanger the safety of my child isn't going to stay at the top of my friends list for very long). Good luck with whatever path you take and good for you for tapping the Mampedia wisdom ;)

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Whenever we had play dates we would always ask what the house rules were. In our house we take shoes off at the door and sit while we eat, in other houses shoes were allowed but you could not chase after the cat, etc. We always included: use your indoor voice and friendly hands. It was also common for moms to speak up to all the kids if the kid's own mom was not looking or talking in the kitchen, to kindly re-direct them when they were tugging on a toy. These were large play groups with 8 moms and 9-15 kids. But still in smaller groups we would talk to each other's kids. I agree to be blunt but kind with the mom, especially Whitney's simple statement. But if you do give her another chance in your home, and you see something about to happen just discipline the girl yourself. Grasp her arm/hand and say that we do not shove in this house (yell, take toys, scratch) and if you do it again I will give you a time out or you will have to leave. I feel that I am the "queen of my castle" and in my house my rules will be followed. My mom used to babysit and kids would behave for her and be horrible to their own parents. Kids soon figure out who they cannot cross and who they can manipulate. Good luck.

I would step in right away and correct the other child even if their parent was there and failed to do anything. I do this at the park, library, etc. if another child is being rude, mean, etc. to my child. I feel it's important for me to model courteous ways to stand up for yourself for my kids! When I say "correct," I mean I'll say something like "We don't hit in this house, you'll need to take a time out." Or, I'll just tell my kids to not play with someone who is going to treat them badly. If the other parent doesn't like it, tough - they can leave or you can. You need to make sure your child is safe and learns how to appropriately stand up for him/herself! Good luck

HI -- I haven't read the other responses, so, I don't know what you've gotten, but, here's my 2 cents! My wonderful, sweet 2.5 year old son is a hitter. He has his favorite targets, and frustration will definitely set him off, but, so will the desire to get a reaction. One of his favorite targets is also one of his favorite friends. It's embarrassing and difficult to deal with. So, assuming you talk to your friend to work out the problem, here's what we have been doing: We do time-outs, but, frankly, they weren't really helping. He'll put himself in time-out even. So, then we introduced a sticker chart with a big prize at the end. That worked, for a time. But, a few months later, the hitting started again. We are currently doing another sticker chart, for a truck, AND a removal of privileges. Specifically, he has 3 TV tokens for 3 TV shows that he is allowed to watch per day. We remove a token for each episode. He DOES NOT like it, and, while it's been hard on us (less down time!), this lesson appears to be sticking. The sticker chart will end, but, the revocation of TV time will not. Anyway, gotta go, so, I wish you good luck!

Updated

First of all -a THREE year old who laughs when someone is hurt IS NOT A SOCIOPATH! PLEASE! I'm directing this at Karen H -not you even though I know you're concerned about it -it's actually rather normal behavior for this age. However it's incredibly misguided of her parents to allow it! Most small children are amused by almost any reaction -good or bad- until they're taught that some things are NOT okay. Small children don't feel a lot of empathy (just like sociopaths), but they're NOT sociopaths because of their age -it's a developmental phase. Google it or go to the library -there are so many references to "little sociopaths" because it's a hallmark of the 1-4 age group. Around age 3 and certainly into 4, kids DO start to realize that everyone has feelings and it's not nice to hurt others physically or otherwise. It takes some years and experience to really get the full message though (think back to your elementary years). Unfortunately some people never get that message, but parents are there to help get it across!

You should remark to the girl's mother that she plays a bit too rough or better yet -the next time the girl does something mean, don't yell, but say to her (in front of mom), "Let's not push (kick, bite, hit)_____. It's not nice to hurt others or to laugh at them when they're upset." If her mom gets angry -so what? Maybe her mother never learned this lesson appropriately either. Definitely let her mother know that you aren't going to be able to play together unless the child IS held accountable for her actions. She's most likely not a sociopath, but she IS in need of some guidance!

I think you should be honest with the little girl's mom! I think it's best for your son to see that you're being honest and addressing the situation (which is what you would want HIM to do, I'm sure, as he gets older and is faced with other situations). I think at 3 years old, it's still okay for you to step in when it's necessary - especially when there is an issue of "safety". He may not have gotten seriously hurt - yet - but next time the little girl starts being mean, it could end in your son getting a broken bone or some other serious injury. If the little girl's mom is as good of a friend as you hope/think she is, then she should understand your concern...

It is so sad to see your little one be hurt. I definately would take a break from these play dates . You sound very rational, you know the little girl isn't trying to be mean, but just likes the reaction. You could share with your friend that you love her and her daughter dearly and don't want to damage the friendship, but that johnny and sue are just on different development levels right now and you feel that difference is causing friction. We need a little time to get johnny used to playing with older/moreaggressive/(insert your adjective here) kids and then play time can resume. In the meantime, can we grab a coffee some time?
I guess depends on how good a friend this person is, but by putting the concern on you and yours it keeps defenses down and you ultimately get what you and your kiddo need - time away.
Who knows after a few weeks/months of not having a play friend little girl might grow out of it.

i would put the girl in the corner myself..........next time the mother says "dont do that or else", the next time she does it.....id say "oh, ill catch this one" and place her in a corner,. You cant just let this girl torture your son, i know a kid like this, my best friends son. He hits, breaks things, throws wild tantrums.His mother is never consistent. So i briefly got her permission to handle it myself. He is put in time out when hes over here. Sure enough, he listens to me/

This is 100% your responsibility. You are not modeling strength by being scared to mention this to your friend. Teach your son how to stand up to bullies by doing it yourself. This undisciplined girl is being set up to fail in life by your friend. A time out wouldn't even work if she followed through. You can't send her mom to parenting school, but you can tell her you can't let your son play with her daughter because of even one of the things on this list. I've stopped playing with a few mean kids and told the parents why for WAY less than the stuff you listed here.

Suck it up, don't wait for it to be easy for you while your son gets beaten up and learns bad behavior from a brat. Even if he doesn't do it now, he may one day if he's used to seeing a close family friend do it all the time. You'll be a better friend by being honest, she needs to hear it from somebody that everyone is starting to think negatively of her daughter.

I've had to do this, and it gets harder as they get older (our kids are 6 now) so it's important to make a stand now. Several times over the course of their friendship I've had to say "I'm sorry A doesn't want to play with B for a while. He needs a break because B is being too mean lately." I just tell her like it is. I also went to the elementary school and requested that they be separated when they enter Kindergarten next Fall. She knows about this also. Right now I am in the process of separating them outside of school. I've only let them play 3 times this summer, and each time it reinforces why I need to keep them apart. My son is learning to be a victim, and he just takes it. The hardest part is that his Mom is (was?) one of my best friends. I am honest with her to a point, but I really think her child IS a budding sociopath and I can't bring myself to say that to her. There are some deep seeded issues there.

So that's the long way of saying that you just have to say No when she asks for a play date. You also need to be prepared to take your child and leave when things get out of hand. I have done this many times, but I've warned the Mom in advance. It might seem hard at the time, but in the end you will both be happier.