How Do I Handle a Touchy Situation with My Best Friend Regarding Her Son?

A blind parent is what you are dealing with. My child does no wrong syndrome!

This child should be monitored and video taped to show them point blank of his actions.

I have learned, through the years, that sometimes you grow apart from best friends. Some girlfriends last your whole life but more often than not, some friendships aren't meant to last for 50 years... Some will only be best friends for 3 years, 5, 8, or 15... And you just have to let that happen. Its apart of adult life.

Unfortunately, you've lost respect for your friend as another mother role-model for your children and as a peer for yourself. Trust is a primary pillar of friendship, and she isn't coming through for you on this. She doesn't seem to care that your children are being harmed, insulted or at risk. She is unconcerned that her own children are without boundaries. The trust has been compromised. Time to become acquaintances.

A true friend would tell you if your child has poor behavior. A true friend would care about your children like their own family. What's next for J...? Sounds like he's on track to become the next school bully. Will he chokehold a child at school and get suspended? Will he seriously injure another child and get expelled (and your friend get sued for those injuries)? Will his lying escalate into shoplifting? Will his disrespect for other's property escalate into vandalism?

Unfortunately, these types of longterm behavioral issues can mar the childhood and adolescence of undisiplined, bully-prone children and set them on a more difficult path as young adults. I recently saw on Amazon; it had earned 5 stars from people who bought it... The book is called 'The Bully, the Bullied, and the Bystander: From Preschool to High School--How Parents and Teachers Can Help Break the Cycle of Violence'. Perhaps as a final act of friendship, you might want to give her that book?

http://www.amazon.com/Bully-Bullied-Bystander-Preschool-S...

O wow. I had a situation like this. The older boy was very physically aggressive towards my younger daughter. One trick I learned from another mother was to ignore the parent and go right to the kid and get right up into their face and say menacingly "This is my child and you are not allowed to touch him or be mean to him. My job is to protect my child and I will do whatever I need to do keep him safe." That kid knows exactly what he is doing and no one has told him he can't. I have found this very effective against bullies on playgrounds where you might not even see who the parent is. Don't touch him, don't threaten beyond the vague "I'm going to protect my kid". It usually scares the little bully enough to at least pick on someone else's child instead of yours. If your friend sees you doing it and questions you- repeat the exact same thing. One of my friends "got it" after that and we just made a point of not letting the kids be together unless they were totally supervised. Another friend that I had the same issue with did not get it so we ended up meeting for lunch when the kids were in school more than with the kids together. For the first kid it was a phase that he grew out of- probably because his mom actually stepped up to the plate and realized there was an issue. The second kid went wild and finally ended up living w/ his dad in Colorado- they went back to the land and off the grid-and I totally expect him to be on "America's Most Wanted". Last I heard a few years ago he spent his time on his property with his gun shooting things. Not sorry that friendship didn't last! You must do what is best for your child. With the second kid- my husband and the other dad were together with the boys when the other boy did something aggressive to our son and the other dad said nothing. My husband - who was never that big on kid behaviour- also did nothing since they were at the other kid's house- he was waiting for the dad to reprimand the kid- and he said our son turned and looked at him with the most betrayed expression. A "Why aren't you backing me up , dad?" look that just blew my husband away. Protect your child.

you did the right thing!! you have to distance yourself away from people like this. the parents have created that monster and sounds like the parents let that kid run the roost, poor parents and kids. there is nothing you can do but have nothing else to do with them at all!! B.

I can give you some advice because this past year, I was in the same boat. The difference is that the kiddo was not my friends child, rather her niece, (she watches her Mon-Fri) We would have weekly playdates with my DD and her DD that are about 6 months apart. Her niece is about 2 years older than the other two. Let me tell ya', BRAT cant BEGIN to describe this child. I never thought I would EVER say this in my life...but I cant STAND that kid!!! The last time she came over for a playdate, I had to end it (felt like I was breakin' up with a boyfriend ;) She took it really well. I simply explained that I did not want my impressionable two year old picking up bad habits.

If this woman is truly your friend, she will remain your friend. My friend and I are meeting for lunch tomorrow (no kids) That is the relationship we have now. It is the relationship we had before kids.

I think that if I had to choose, I would choose my childs well being over ANY friendship I may have. Its sad to say that, however, my child and my husband are most important.

How does the old saying go....friends may come and go, but your family is forever.

Good Luck to you, I know EXACTLY how you feel...

Margaret :)

Kids can and will divide friendships.

I feel bad that it is your best friend. If you can, see her without the kids. Work with your husbands and try to pick days where you can lunch or shop without the children.

It's not going to change. You spoke your view. That's her "baby" and they will parent how they choose, right or wrong.

I was in your shoes but it was with a neighbor. Her daughter lied, lied, lied about EVERYTHING. Problem was she would hurt feelings and she is a "big" girl, it just seemed everytime she was around someone got hurt. Her Mom yelled at her but nothing changed. Finally, one day she literally almost ran over my one year old with her bike (she said she couldn't stop it). My dd had a TIRE mark on her shirt, thought my husband was going to explode!! That was it for us.

Gotta do what you gotta do.
Oh, and just to add, I'm not crazy about how she had to come back and tell you what her husband and sister thought. That's a little childish, she shouldn't need back up on what she feels is right or wrong. Maybe she needed the assurance b/c deep down she knows her son isn't an angel.

Kids sounds like a brat bottom line. Spend time with your friend alone if possible. Her son may get better or he may get worse, you don't want TIRE tracks on your kids, trust me! :) Good Luck.

Hmmmm...I'd venture to say that a real friend would listen to what you are saying to her, and reflect upon the situation! I think distance may be just the thing.

I have found over the years that people who I was friends with before they had children might not remain fast friends once they have kids. I think it's because of the way I see them disciplining (or *not*) their kids, and the behaviour their kids exhibit when the parents' heads are turned (and sometimes facing the behaviour head on!)

I think you are doing the right thing to put some space between your kids and hers. I have been known to point out to my kids other kids' behaviour, to tell them that while they may see Z doing something, that it still is not permissable to me. And, yes, within earshot of the other kids' parents. Sometimes the hint has figuratively prodded the parent to address the situation. Sometimes, my kids will say, "But Mom, I didn't ______ !" At which point I'd say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you had. But you do understand why that behaviour is not OK, right?" kicking off a conversation between me and my kids about why that particular behaviour is unacceptable (with the hope that some of that rubs off on the other kids/parents). It may not be direct, but it often results in the other parent addressing the behaviour with their own kid.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

I was in this situation. You have no choice but to not see her anymore. Your child is worth too much to be around that.

Stay away. Period.

If your friend won't control her kid and gets mad when you try to defend yourself and you children you need to stay away.

It sounds like the big kid has some issues and could be a danger to your child, so just stay away. It's not your kid, you can't fix him, you can't change your friend's parenting techniques and you can't fix a problem someone else doesn't see.

This stuff is SO hard! With my best friend, it is how she treats her kids -- just as alarming to me as this child's behavior is to you. But otherwise she's a great friend. One thing I've done is to decide not to stay at her house when we're visiting -- being inside her family system is overwhelming for me. I have also considered that her anger at her kids is upsetting to me in a disproportianate way because my mother was often very angry and sometimes physically violent, and she did NOT have my friend's affectionate and caring side to counterbalance her meanness, at least not toward me.

Parenting is a very, very difficult job, and we all, inevitably, make big mistakes. Sometimes they just have to do with approaches that don't work for a particular kid, that would be fine with a different child. Sometimes we unthinkingly re-enact things our own parents did that were just completely dysfunctional because we haven't realized how crazy those particular things were. Or we try to correct hurtful things from our childhood by doing the opposite, which is equally crazy. One thing is for sure -- even if we SEE our failings, they can be extremely hard to correct. Like I know that I should set firmer boundaries more consistently with my child, but I have a very, VERY hard time doing it. For your friend's situation, this may mean that she is more aware of the problem than you realize, but may be panicking because she doesn't know how to address it. Alternately, maybe you really are over-reacting to something about this child -- maybe you had a sibling who lied and got away with it or was mean to you without being called on it. Or maybe you and your friend are unconsciously in competition in some way -- I know that my best friend and I have always taken opposing approaches to life, with her emphasizing discipline and boundaries and me emphasizing nurturing and care-giving, and I know that plays out in our parenting with her judging me as too soft and me judging her as too hard. It's our own form of sibling rivalry, and I believe it has to do with each of us being deeply afraid that our own parenting is not good enough. Both of us, I think relieve that fear by focusing more than is appropriate on the other one's parenting mistakes.

As far as sharing concerns about parenting, I disagree with your friends husband and sister -- I think a true friend tells the truth once, gently, and then stays quiet, because of corse we hear any criticism of our parenting loud and clear without needing the criticism repeated again and again (which is likely to make us tune out because it is so painful to hear). But I do agree that a good friend should be tactful and respectful, which means saying things kindly and then letting a friend make their own decisions. And you ahve the right to expect the same -- she's said once that apparently she doesn't want you to separate your kids from her kids (she said this when she repeated her husband and sister, but in a healthy friendship, she'll respect your decision if you choose to socialize only with her and not with your kids and her kids, if you make the change as tactfully and respectfully as possible, not as punishment and not to try to force her to change, but simply to make your own life, and your kids' lives, work for you and for them.

I also get the feeling that you are in a close-knit community where people passing things around is doing damage to your friendship, since you received information about what your friend's child did the day before he was aggressive with your child, and she is passing on what her husband and sister are saying about your decisions. If you possibly can, stop participating in these backdoor networks both as a way passing things on TO your friend and her kids and also as a way of finding out things about them. The book The Dance of Anger has a lot of good stuff about what Harriette Lerner calls "triangulation," and I find my relationships are MUCH happier and healthier when I am able to spot communication that is not directly between myself and the other person or persons involved and cut all of it out. I suspect you and your friend are both getting worked up at least in part because of communication that is NOT happening between the two of you directly and is instead occurring indiirectly through others. Any time someone repeates to you something a friend or family member thinks or did, whether they mean to or not, they are harming the relatiionshp between you and that person.

All the best!
M.

Things become much more complicated in friendships when your children are involved. I've been in a similiar situation. I would not leave my child alone with the other child, and overall limited the amount of time they spent together. If you want to continue the friendship, you can have lunch with her, a mom's day out, and just be careful when your children are together.

The other thing I did was just speak directly to the child. When little "Johnny" was about to take my son's toy, or something else, I would tell Johnny, no, don't do that. That is not proper behavior. The mom seemed oblivious to her son's misbehavior, and didn't take umbrage at me speaking to her son either. Soon, Johnny learned he could not do that around my son and not get spoken to, so the bad behavior diminished. I also would tell the child that I was an adult, and it is not okay to speak to an adult in that manner. Make it short, stern, and then move on in the conversation and ignore the rude child. The child will get the msg.

Best of luck. It is a difficult situation for sure. Remeber though, your child looks to you for protection. You asked if you did the "extreme" here. No, you did not do anything extreme.

Dear M.,

It sounds like "J" is accustomed to getting his way and getting away with it without consequences. That's unfortunate for his family, but shouldn't be a problem for yours. It sounds like your friend is upset with you because you are bringing this to light. Parents know their children so certainly this is nothing new for them, maybe they just haven't wanted to admit his behavior because they think it is a reflection of their parenting skills. I think I would express to my friend that your way of "disciplining" your children is different and if he wants to come over and play,then he needs to follow your rules...if he can't, then he needs to stay home. When he is over, I would have them play where you can monitor them from afar so that you can step in, when necessary. Though, I've always been an advocate of "kids working it out", there is an unfair advantage between an 8 year old and a 5 year old, especially if the 8 year old is a bit of a bully. Good luck.

I completely understand. I had the same problem with my 5yr old son and my 10yr old nephew. My 5yr old thinks he's the greatest thing and my nephew bullies him and treats him like a servant. Bottomline, your children come first! An eight yr old does not need to be doing a choke hold on a 5yr old regardless of what the 5yr old did. Her son is a bully and if he can't respect you and your son he doesn't need to be playing with them. It sounds like this boy has serious issues. I wonder if he is on any meds for ADHD? Reason I ask is that my nephew has been on several and when he was on the one particular med. it caused him to act mean and throw tantrums like a little kid and the lieing too. Once they changed his medicine he improved almost 90%. My husband and I got to the point where we supervised their playsessions too and it shouldn't have to be that way. 5yrs is a very innocent age and they can easily pick up things they see others do. If your friend sees nothing wrong with her son's behavior than you should probably distance your son from hers until she can get control over her son. Don't feel bad, this is your child and you need to do what's best for him. Good luck! God Bless! :)

Bottom line, you have to protect your children from liars and people who might harm them, weather they are children or adults, I believe that you should distance your children from hers until she can see the problem.

Ok..... WHAT??!! A chokehold? How on earth would any parent think thats appropriate?
I'm with you on the distance thing, and a real friend would open her eyes!! I would never let my son be disrespectful to an adult.
"J' sounds a little like a bully. I feel for you, this is your best friend, but as such, she needs to think about what if it were the other way around? What if it were your child disrespecting her and mistreating her child?
I wonder if she would see things differently.

this is what you tell your friend "My feeling is that I can't allow our children to be together anymore. I can not allow my children witnessing behavior that goes undisciplined. Not only that, I can no longer tolerate the disrespectful behavior her son has exhibited to me...both the lies and the correction of things that I say. "

Distance is a good thing.
These parents do not want to discipline their child. They are not doing him any favors and he will probably get worse and worse..

We have over the years, dropped friends because of this exact behavior. We would try to point out problems, concerns and outright prove to them the behaviors of their children. We would even use our own daughter as an example of how she was not perfect and made wrong choice, but that we used that as a way to reinforce better choices, or have her face the consequences.. They just did not catch the reference or did not seem to want to deal with it..

You must protect your children first. If you do not want to out and out talk with them about their child and explain why you are no longer going to socialize with them, then just do not invite them to do anything or do not accept any of their invitations..

They may never deal with it. We have some friend that have the most beautiful, talented and intelligent girls, but they are totally scary! Everybody loves the parents, but it is such a shame that people refer to them as the parents of "those scary girls". They have friends, but even those people do not accept invitations to do anything if those girls are going to be there.

An 8 year old and a 5 yr. old is a rough combination of friends' ages, unless the personalities mix well. These do not.
You can still do things with your friend, but don't mix the kids anymore. Period.

I have a similar situation. I have a friend who I absolutely love! She is great. Her 16 yr. old son is a bully and a liar. When they used to hang out, her son would do something dangerous or destructive and say that my son did it.
Our kids do not hang around together, but we still have lunch or a cup of coffee together from time to time.

M.,

Wow! I am so sorry you and your child are experincing this. You are doing the right thing. You need to protect your child. Sometimes in life we have to make difficult choices this could be one of them.

The age difference could be part of the problem.

How does J behave at school? Is J allowed to watch violent TV/movies? Has J been bullied by someone? How does J behave with other children? They may not know how to correct the problem. Sounds like they may need some parenting classes.

It is sad when parents don't discipline their children. I had a police officer friend tell me once either you discipline your children or the courts will, and you may not like how the court disciplines your child.

You will be so pleased when your children grow up and are polite,kind, responsible adults.

Good Luck,

Because of the huge age difference in the children, I would recommend you not allowing the kids to play anywhere where an adult is not constantly supervising them.

If this is not possible I would explain to your friend that because of the age difference the kids cannot be alone and therefore cannot play together.

A real friend? How about what a real mother would do. You're doing what a real mother would do - watching out for her children and protecting them.

Friends will come and go through your life - it's possible this friend is one of those that you have begun to outgrow at this stage of your life.

Protect your kids and stand up for them - you're really the only voice they have.

I have had issues with a friend of my daughter's and I was obvious that the parents weren't phased by their daughter's behavior. Instead of allowing my child to be the one upset every playtime together, I chose to pretty much stop getting together with them. The parents were good friends of ours but they did some things I didn't like our daughter being around.

It seems like your child is suffering in this situation and as your child's advocate, it seems like perhaps these children should just not play together.

Good luck!

I know that I am a bit late on responding, and I haven't read any other responses, but I wanted to give you my opinion. The most important thing for you to do is to protect your child. The problem with most children today is that the parents do not understand what the consequences are for not teaching their children obedience. A young child is very impressionable and must be protected from sin. Disobedience is sin. You never spoke of your religious beliefs, however, you speak as if you are a Christian. Your best friend says that real friends will not stop their children from hanging out together, but it is a 2 way street and your friend should respect your request of teaching your child only good. There is nothing wrong with that. Teaching your child good at a young age is what directs their paths for the future. Train up a child in the way they should go, and when they are older, they will not depart from it. It is vital, for the sake of your child, that you protect them. One thing that you can do is talk to your child. When J does something that you disapprove of, and your son sees it, remind your son that is was not right. However, with what you are saying that J does, personally I would seriously limit their time together and I would pray for J. Your first priority is to be a parent, then be a freind to J's mom. Nothing, other than a life with Christ, is more important than how you raise your child. Good luck and God bless your family!

It seems that your BF is not seeing what your seeing because it's her child. You have the right to choose who your child is around and plays with. You cannot have your child associate with children with rude manners and unacceptable behavior, because then they will think that is the way to act. You both have different parenting styles and you prefer to raise a child that does not lie and is not rude. You have to do what's in the best interest of your child and if she does not understand that, then so be it.

Keep up the great parenting work.

Be Blessed,
E.

Yes, your kids need to be apart. Have ypou mentioned to your best friend all these things? There is no need for you to be disrespected or your kids to be made to be around it just cause you all are friends. Hang in there!

sorry but if she dont like it then i would just have to end that friendship with her because u and ur childern are the one's paying the price for it.sorry i would not take that trust me there is more friends out there..dont let this get to u her lose but please put ur childern first because ur babys will only think its right to act this way dont put urself there.take care and i wish u well:)

Wow I'm really sorry because I know real friends are few and far between. It just sounds like you are going to have to do what is best for your kids. I took my son to a family members house so she could watch him while my husband and I went out for our anniversary. He was only like 13 months old at the time. When I came to get him I found that he was in bed crying. She had put him down at like 6pm because he seemed cranky and wouldn't eat. So she proceeds to put him down without supper and let him cry off an on until we got there at around 8:30pm. He was soaked through his diaper and pretty upset. I was mortified because he never went down before 8pm. She disagreed with my approach to parenting because her children went down between 6-7pm regularly. So needless to say he never stayed there again and to this day she and I just aren't close and we were pretty close before. It hurt me because a good friend is a real treasure, but of course my son comes first. I will still take him to her kids birthday parties etc, but I never leave him when we are around them because she and I approach parenting so differently. Hope you can resolve it with her, but if not you will be ok.

M.,
I have a suggestion - it's born out of my own experiences and, even though it seems harsh and not what the norm in society would do, it is the only move to make. First, establish your priorities - which it sounds like you're well under control of that. :) Second, you need to "own" this feeling of control over your priorities...meaning, feel good in what you've already decided. It sounds like you KNOW that this child doesn't need to be playing with your son anymore. You've given him ample time to prove himself, and your friend room to do something about this. You've done all that you can so you should feel good about seperating from them. Detaching is sometimes the only way for YOU to have what you want in this life and it's also. sometimes, the only way for SOMEONE ELSE to re-evaluate what they need to be doing for themselves and their family. If enough people don't want her child playing with their children, she might do something about this, which would be really great for herself, her son, their friendships and their family. Win -win! :)
Third, the trick here is that you have to remove the fears of...what people will say...how she'll react..your deep motherly emotions of how your son and her son might feel about being seperated...etc...and replace those feelings with positive value feelings. ie...you're doing what's best for all concerned. You are not fueling this to continue and for you to feel bad or trapped. You are freeing yourself and your son up for new and more compatible friends.
And fourth, let go of all of it that is negative, and I mean, just let it go. Don't examine it, don't discuss it over and over, don't doubt yourself, just literally forget it for a while. God will handle all sides of, this and work it out for the best.
I am going to bet that your friend will be indignent at first and vow to hate you forever. She might talk behind your back, cry to her husband and feel badly. You might even get calls from mutual friends, but just remain calm, state your side and let it go. In time your friend will come to look at her part in this and realize that YOU were not the problem. The disciplining of her son and her son's general behavior is the problem and maybe she'll realize that it needs to be addressed. He might even need special attention. Her denial is NOT your problem. Step back and pray for them - that's all you can do. God will do the rest. After a while she might even come and thank you - ask forgiveness and move into a new and better friendship.
God bless - I hope you can work this out.
D.

Hi M.,

This is a difficult situation, but your heart is telling you something needs to be done. As a Life Coach for busy parents, I give a talk on personal boundaries and I'll share some of the message with you. Basically, who is more important here - your child or your friend? I know she means a lot to you, but this is a situation where your son will learn by example from her son's behavior - enough said about that!

You do have options: 1) Do nothing, 2) Cut off all relations with your friend and her family, 3) Gradually distance yourselves from all interactions, 4) Get together only with the adults in each family, or 5) Get together just you and your girlfriend. If you think about it, there are probably other options, too.

This is a tough situation, but you are up to it. Weigh your options and take action. It sounds like you've tried on several occasions to address this with your friend. Remember, too, that you don't have to have an in-depth conversation with your friend to explain your decision. If she cannot accept that her son's behavior is bullying - which it is, she will learn this over time when her son does this with others.

Your first obligation it to see to the needs of your son. That is a healthy boundary that needs tending.

I wish you the best of luck,
Parent Coach J. B

M., I'm so sorry that you are having to experience all of this. Been there, done that. Unfortunately all to often what you see their son doing is probably a constant behavior witnessed at their house. We've had to cut ties with other friends because of things going on in their home that we were totally unaware of.

Your kids are the most important. Tell your friend that the kids just will not be around each other anymore. Period.

Good luck,
D

M.,

I agree completely with you! I think that if your son continues to hang around "J" he will begin to pick up the same behaviors. Your child is more important; especially if your friend doesn't seem to care. Good Luck!

You have to decide what is best for your children because you cannot control what other parents do with their own. I have rules in my house that I expect my daughter to follow as well as anyone else who is in my home. If people don't want their children to follow my rules then that's their choice. However you do have to make it clear from the start and I'm not sure you have done that. I do realize the situations you mentioned were not in your home, I don't think, so that changes the dynamics.

No child should speak disrepectfully to an adult and not sure how well that will go over in school. Seems to me that both parents are on the same page and that page is not the same as yours. You are not in their home so you cannot see what the parents do for discipline. If anything. They see things differently than you, which is obvious, but since they see nothing wrong with that behavior then you aren't going to change them.

it may be time to find another person/family to be around. I've had to stop seeing certain people for the same reasons. Their parenting styles didn't match mine and I didn't want my daughter to pick up what I considered to be bad habits or disrespectful behavior. You are fighting a battle not only with your best friend and her husband but her sister as well.

You said it, nothing changes. But you can change you and your situation. We all have choices so I guess you have to make a choice.

Hi M.,

I got to agree with Karen N. shes right and so are the others.There is a season for everything. Friends change when they have kids. Whats going on in your sitituation is not friendship on her part. You and your family will not miss this kind of friendship. There are plenty of good ones out there. Its a shame whats your friend has allowed to happen, but sometimes things happen for a reason. I have a saying when something bad happens, something good will come. And something good will come, the season of your friendship is coming to an end to make room for a new one.
You arleady on a good start :)

I applaue your actions. More people need to stand up to parents that allow their children to misbehave. Your actions show that you care greatly for your children and want them to grown up respecting others. When "J" is older and has to face his actions, this will be the same mom that just can't understand and believe their child is an angel. Your friend does not seem to respect you or your children and I believe that the loss of her friendship will far outway the safety of your children. Way to go.

M.,
Be like Dr. Phil, tell it like it is! I'm sorry she can be your best friend but you are talking about your child here. If she does not see what her son is doing then let her deal with it now or later. You can only do so much for her. This relationship sounds like a one way street. She does not discipline her child especially when he is misbehaving. Sorry I am a mother of T. and just don't have patience for spoiled children.

Best of luck,
Elisa M

You are doing the appropriate things for yourself and your children by ending this friendship. He sounds like a willful child who receives no immediate consequences for his behavior, perhaps even a disturbed child. What must he be like in the classroom? - or perhaps he just enjoys bullying younger children. AT any rate his parents are in denial about his problems and I would cut off any social outings with them, for the sake of your kids. Be strong and be at peace with this decision.

I think you are right. Maybe just hang out with her without the kids. If she asks why you never bring your kids over anymore, explain it in a loving manner. If she chooses not to hang out with you anymore then so be it. You have to make your stand. I have stopped hanging with people because their children were horrible.

M.. I think you are definitely doing the right thing. I had a similar situation with my best friend and our daughters being friends. They did get to be friends who spent the night together etc. until about 4th or 5th grade. The first incident was when my daughter spent the night at her house and my best friend and her husband got into a huge yelling argument in front of both girls. My daughter was afraid because she had never seen anything like that before, but my daughter told me that my best friends daughter just kept on playing like nothing was wrong. My daughter told me that she never wanted to spend the night there again. When our girls became teens her daughter started doing things like sneaking out of the house, sneaking boys in the house, etc. She never got into any trouble for this. She was also allowed to do a lot of things that I would never allow my daughter to do. My husband and I made the decision to not allow them to hang out without us right there with them. Long story short, her daughter lost her virginity at 14 while visiting her boyfriend over 1000 miles away. My friend let her little girl go to this boys house and let him stay there. His mother let them stay home alone while she went to work! I was beside myself! Her daughter is a senior in high school and has no plans on going to college because she was allowed to make whatever grades she wanted with no punishment. Our daughter is 18 and still a virgin (I know this for sure because she just had a pap smear two weeks ago and the doctor confirmed for me), and she is a senior in high school and has already started applying to colleges. This is because we gave consequences for certain behaviors and she was only allowed to make A's and B's without punishment. It's not my friend's daughters fault that her life turned out this way. I think it is because of the lack of parenting she received. We love her to death, but couldn't allow our daughter to see that behavior go unpunished. A "true friend" will listen to your concerns and not judge you on how you choose to discipline your child. Each one of us will have to answer to God one day for how we raised our kids. Do what you think is right for your family and let her do what is right for hers. Stay strong. You will be glad you did one day!

I had the same type of relationship with a childhood friends daughter. Just a bad seed child if there ever was one. Sometimes I examined the kids head from a distance looking for horns or a 666 pattern under her braids. My saving grace was I moved and I know my getting my kids away from hers really helped. By the time her girls made their early 20's they both had given birth multiple times. You primary responsibility is to protect your children.

No, you did the right thing! Some parents these days, unfortunately, feel that to discipline a child is to 'ruin' them. Hah! They ruin them if they don't in my opinion. A real friend WOULD bring this to the parent's attention so please don't take their negative, immature comments to heart. If you were wrong, you'd do nothing, then your kids would most likely p/u the same bad habits so the right thing, in my opinion, IS to separate them from the other kids & unfortunately not allow them to play w/your kids. It really sounds like the kid has this unending need for either being the constant center of attention or just simply trying to get attention from anyone he can get it from. Sometimes kids act that way out of neglect like not getting the attention they feel they need or perhaps he has A.D.D. or A.D.H.D.?? Somewhere this kid saw or experience bad behaviors either from other 'mean' kids being mean to some other kid(s) or mean to him, himself or in the worst case scenario, parental mistreatment of some sort. A kid will also lash out from anger or feelings of being mistreated or neglected either literally or just b/c they THINK they're being mistreated. I experienced the same thing as a kid w/myself. I too would act up b/c, honestly, I really didn't know any better, I acted up/picked up wrong habits from others I saw do the same thing & thought it was okay & also b/c I was being bullied constantly so I became a bully to kids & even adults I thought I could bully or manipulate to get what I 'thought' I needed or wanted. I did learn better as I grew up & understood what bad I was doing & now I have this HUGE guilt about past wrong-doings but at the time, it didn't matter to me as long as I was getting my way b/c I really didn't get my way on anything so I had to fight for it or the fact that as long I was getting the attention I wasn't getting that I really needed (I was abused & neglected as a child so naturally, I didn't receive a whole lot of 'good' attention). It's unfortunate that the parents don't care that their child behaves like this. Perhaps they will soon realize their child's bad behaviors & really do something. Don't let them make you feel like your in the wrong coz you're not! Be strong & just keep in mind, the longer your kids are exposed to this misbehavior, the more chance they may p/u on that. Good luck!

sounds like your friend's son is a bully and I think you are doing the only thing that can be done, which is remove you and your son from an unhealthy relationship.
I have no idea what other mothers are saying here but go with your gut instinct and you won't lose sleep at night over it.

-Jen

Hi M.,
It is obvious this child needs some professional help. parenting is not getting the job done with this child and he (and parents) are in for a long time of dispair if something is not done to correct this behavior.
it is obvious the mother does not see what you see and is blind to the circumstances. I would recommend you slowly start to distance your self and your children from this enviroment as soon as you can. Use excuses like- school has started and you are starting a new schedule in your home. Or you child is having some of his (same age ) friends over or he is going to their home for a while- what ever you can do to avoid having these children together. Your child could be hurt and you need to protect him.
Now that school has started perhaps the teacher or counselors at school will see the destructive behavior and talk to the parents. Also, if they go to the same school be sure and "alert" your childs teachers that you do not want them to play together outside strict supervision. it is not likely they will be playing at the same time due to age differences.
If your friend questions your new schedule etc just let her know that sometimes age differences cause friction between children and you think her child might be happier playing with children his own age- make it seem like your interest is in her child- that way she can't get mad at you. You can still be friends- just not when the children are together.
Hope this does not seem too harsh- and I wish you all the good luck and blessings in the world.

Bless your heart for being in this situation so early on in your son's life. It really does complicate things that the child's mother is your best friend. I completely understand your strong reaction to this problem and your wanting to just remove them from your lives. I don't think anyone would blame you. Your first responsibility is to your son and this may result in some negative feedback from those around you, but remember, you are his advocate and no one else's. You must do what is right for him and your family. I have come to accept this as a mother myself. It is not easy, especially if you prefer to avoid conflict. I have found my strength in my love for my son and my responsibility as his mother.

No matter your choice, this is an opportunity for your son to learn that others may not always make good choices, treat others well, or listen to those that care about them. It is good that he will now be able to recognize these unfortunate traits in others and know that he should not choose these individuals as his friends. You might explain it to him this way... J is having a hard time learning how to be a friend right now. Someday, he might be able to be a good friend, but right now, we need to let him learn more about it and get better at it before we are his friend. This is, of course, if you decide to remove J and his family from your lives.

If you decide to keep your best friend, then you might include in your conversation with your son that he and you can teach J to be a better friend by treating him nicely and telling him point blank when he is not being nice. That might sound like this from your little one... J, I don't like when you do ____. It makes me feel sad. That's not what friends are supposed to do. If you aren't going to play nicely, then I am not going to play you. Make sure he understands to come directly to you when J does something to him and if I were you, I would never leave them unsupervised, meaning you should be right there, not your friend.

I hope this helps.

It is true that you can not force others to do what you think is best, BUT you must do what is best for you and your children. Get a new friend.
I know that sounds harsh, but I would not subject my children or myself to that.
Those parents will reap what they have sown with that child by not teaching him correctly. He will have huge problems in life, but your children and yourself do not need to be subjected to it.
Do not say or do anything to make it a big deal, just widen your circle of friends and begin being way to busy when they want to get together. "It is just not convenient for us today, sorry." All parents have had to do this at some point with various people and it teaches your children that they also can choose friends that treat them respectfully. Friendship or actually no relationship includes being abused and that is what you are subjecting yourself and your children to in this situation.

Distance yourself and your family away from these people. Your kids come first and if your "friends" feel offended, that's their problem. You don't need to be around people who won't discipline their kid and you don't have to put up with an unruly kid who can potentially seriously hurt your children. Good Luck.

i agree with the previous responses. it is no longer really about your friendship with this woman and her family. from what you've shared, she seems more concerned with how much of a "true friend" you are being to her, without seeming to reciprocate the same respect she gets from you.

it is no longer about them. it is about you and your family. it is not only your job to protect your children, it is also your job to model healthy relationships and behavior for them. if being around your "friend" and her family jeopardizes any of your primary objectives as a mother trying to raise intelligent, healthy, respectful, compassionate (insert your adjective here) members of society, you need to cut ties, no matter how painful that may be for you in the moment. you do not want your children growing up thinking the kind of behavior exhibited by those children is acceptable. its one thing if they see it from other children at school, it something entirely different if they see it from children/families you consider "close friends". if you do not condone the behavior and it will not change, you need to remove yourself and your children from the situation for the well-being of your family.

i hope this helps you. best wishes to you.

M.,
As a MOM, I think you are doing the right thing on seperating yourself from them. Hopefully this will pass and in a few years it will all be over. God Bless.

WOW! So sorry that you have to endure this with your best friend. My opinion is that you are doing the right thing and you are doing what is best for YOUR child and your friend is being selfish of how your feelings are just being dismissed and she needs to understand that you are not being mean but letting her know that this behavior is unacceptable and you will do anything to protect your children even if it means telling someone that this issue needs to be resolved. I know what you are saying because I know some parents just let their kids run all over them and do not discipline them when needed. Their children will grow up with this mannerism and believe me it will not be tolerated in school,work or when they meet different people who will not put up with their selfishness. I believe that discipline is needed now as they are young because it will teach them to respect others as they grow up to be adults, too many kids are not disciplined and look at this world today. I'm not perfect and neither are my children but I will discipline when needed and know when they are doing something inappropriate and will take care of it at that moment and not wait till you get home because it will be forgotten by then and the child will not learn. Children need to know when they make mistakes and be talked to so they can understand why they are being disciplined and then you make mends and not bring it up again, you don't keep drilling them because it will only cause resentment between you and the child, but if it happens again you remind them of why we don't do certain things and help them to understand. Children need DISCIPLINE and guidance. Everyone has a opinion and we have to be willing to listen to each other if your friend is a good friend she will understand, sometimes people need to be told and either she'll accept what you are saying or just keep on ignoring her child's behavior. I'm a believer in God and I would pray before you speak to her and pray for wisdom. Blessing and best wishes!

Your friend's child may have a chemical imbalance in the brain. Seriously. This type of behavior can certainly stem from that. I experienced this same kind of nastiness with my son was younger and at a party where another boy was ahead of him on a ladder to a slide. The older boy started stomping on my son's fingers. His parents were not present at the party and I put a stop to it. His Aunt was there and put him in time out and I laid down the law and later talked to his father. Their attitude was that they could not control their own child and thought it was part of growing up. I watched this boy go through elementary, r. high and high school with behavioral problems. He is anti-social and I must confess I can't stand him but if I see him I am nice and say hello. I often wonder if this type of behavior defines who and what they become in life. I feel sorry that he got no help and has been allowed to grow up in this manner and I really feel sorry for whoever he marries because I think he will be abusive. If I were you I would not put my children in a situation to be forced to be around this kid. They need positive influences in their lives and that is your responsibility as a parent. Your friendship with your friend becomes second and if your friend is unwilling to open her eyes and see her child's behavior or ignore she will have major issues later in life with her kid and it is sad because he needs help.

Hi M.. This may sound a little harsh but if I had someone in my life that put a chokehold on my child and has done it to others I would put distance between my family and theirs. Life is too short to be on edge about hurting their feelings at the expense of my child. Surely to God you can find people more deserving of you and your family. Good luck and move on.

L.

Ok....I realize you already have been flooded with responses, but here is one more.

Sometimes, you try to tell someone something and they don't listen because they don't WANT to acknowledge that there is a problem. Obviously, if they are parents and having to be told, then you are probably wasting your breath. And, of course, now you are the "bad guy."

All you have to do is back away. Just always be busy. This way there is no confrontation and hard feelings. But you are totally correct to do so because basically, in a nutshell, you only get one shot at messing up your kids, and then you will have to take many shots at trying to fix them. You may as well save all of you the trouble and just teach them right the first time.

Good luck to you! You are doing the right thing. Your kids come first. And, you don't want your kids to see this behavior as acceptable.

I have read all your responses. I think it is clear. I have to tell you though...God Bless You! You have been the "friend" here!(attempting to be the adult, considering a frienship. That's why u wrote right!?!) You didn't mention any real thoughtfulness or consideration for you, your feelings, or your children from your so called "friend". You don't need "friends" like that. How can you seperate your frienship at this point!?! Raising our children isn't about "our" ego, perfection or denial. I personally found it to be the most humbling experience of my life. Fortunately, in the best interest of my child. I am surpisingly proud to say.(I certainly wasn't a expert) You can't make her be the parent/adult or person you think she should be..but...you can stand by the parent/adult and person you CHOOSE to be and who you surround yourself, and children with. I'm sure you know the boy "J" didn't develop this obvious inappropriate behavior all by himself. However he IS the child..and his parents ARE supposed to be the ADULTS!

I think you did the right thing by bringing this up to your friend. I wouldn't allow my child to play with someone who was abusing him and acting out all the time because then my child would pick up those bad habits.

I don't think it's "J"'s fault for the way he acts, he's been allowed to do that for so many years so he thinks it's okay. It's really the parents fault. That is probably why your friend is having a hard time with it, because it does question her parenting style. People usually respond to criticism (however deserving) with a defensive attitude so her reply is understandable. This is when she really, as a good friend, should stop and examine the situtation and realize that you wouldn't have brought it up if it weren't a serious issue. I hope she acts on it and starts correcting her son's behavior. But if not, I'd distance our children until the behavior is corrected. Your kids come first and as parents it's our responsibilty to take care of them and stand up for them.

You are a great and caring mom. It's good that you watch and observe how your children play with others. YOu did the right thing!

-M.

This is a mess. You need to have a serious sit down with your friend and end it. She is not listening to you and her children are hurting yours.

I hate to have friendships end like this, it is not pretty. It seems like you have expressed your distress over and over again and she is not getting it. Disciple needs to be done immediately for it to be effective.

I do not agree with disciplining my friends children (unless they are in my sole care) but, with my close friends (and only very close friends) I will disciple their child if I see something egregious. Then I apologize to my friend for stepping in. Most do not mind. Maybe, if you are all together and her children do something, instead of going to your friend, take care of it yourself. At the very least, "J" will get the message that he cannot get away with things with you and at the most it will end your friendship. THis is not about being mean and nasty, or "not a true friend". You are taking care of your kids.

Good Luck!

You did the right thing. You have to protect your children.
J should be disciplined right away. He seems to need immediate consesquences or its not sinking into his head. Even if it means losing your friend, your children have to come first.

You will have to tell her in a loving way "I am really concerned about J and his behavior". You could tell her how much you love her and how much her family means to you and your family and then tell her your concerns. These seem like very serious concerns. They sounds like very serious behavioral issues. If her response is negative to you and harsh, you may have to cut the relationship off. Best friends should be able to talk to each other about anything, so her sister is crazy. Most of my friends and I feel 100% comfortable talking about loving discipline. I even correct my friends kids in a gentle loving way and they correct my kids in a gentle loving way. If you are going to continue to spend time with them you may need to start doing this. If he speaks disrespectfully to you, maybe say in a firm voice, in front of his parents or not "you may not speak to me like that". Also, if he does things to your child, maybe haul him over to your friend and say "J" just did this and it was not kind. Then your child sees you reacting to the behavior and giving the child consequences. Be sure you also try to show "J" as much love as you can when he is being good. Like I said though if your friends doesn't like this new way you are showing her child love you may have to cut things off. These are serious behavioral issues that your child will start picking up on, especially the lying. Perhaps you and the mom can just do things by yourself if things don't work out with the kiddos. That way you don't have to sever the relationship completely. Good luck M..

Find a new best friend ( I KNOW HARSH ) for the safty of your child you need to do this. You can be around the friend with out children around but that will be up to you. This friend has a child that sounds like has a bigger problem than she will be able to deal with. And may need to see someone professional. Keep your children safe been there also.

I had a friend with a mean son. She had the nerve to tell ME that she didn't like the way our kids related. The friendship ended, but you know what - it was good riddance. Sit down with your friend alone and have a heart-to-heart. It probably won't do any good - she's in denial - but if she ever comes to her senses, she can't say she wasn't warned. If she doesn't make any commitment to address the problems, terminate the friendship. It sounds cold, but it beats having your kid in a chokehold every time you turn around.

Quite frankly, I think you should send this letter to her and explain that altho you would like to continue your friendship with her that it will have to be between the two of you and omit the children from your get-togethers as the two of you, altho friends, have different views on rearing children and you cannot expose your children to hers any longer. Are you the only person who has this problem with her children? If not, perhaps you could find someone to back you up.

To me it sounds like your friend is not very considerate of you or your child. If you want to remain friends you should consider just meeting for lunch or doing things that dont include the rest of your family. it is apparent that the sister of your friend does not have any of her own children if she thinks YOU are being rude to even talk to her about this. YOUR family and son are the primary concern and you know what is best and what you have to do. Dont second guess yourself!