How Do You Potty Train a Hard Headed 4 Year Old Boy? Adrian, MN

The first mistake is not being consistent. That's the biggest mistake. I see it all throughout your post.

You're also giving him far too much control. At 4 years old, unless he has some sort of developmental delays or special needs, he ought to be toilet trained. Take charge and tell him what you expect from him rather than asking him permission to toilet train him.

No more bribes. Enough is enough. Kindergarten won't take him if he isn't toilet trained, let alone swim lessons. He needs encouragement and positive reinforcement, but not bribes. He also needs to know that he no longer has the choice.

I would try two things:

Talk with your child's pediatrician. If you have already done this, try again, and present a few-day log of how/when it's happening. Ask them for strategies and if there is any cause for concern.

See if he will try sitting on the toilet (even when he doesn't have to go) with two feet on a stool. For some children, they really do feel like they are falling into the toilet. A stool can be grounding. If this is going to work for him, he may want to experience it when he is not also experiencing the urge to go (might be less anxiety-producing).

Good luck.

It sounds like you've been doing too many things and that you started way too soon. Age 2.5 is way too young for most kids, especially after you figured out he couldn't manage it.

I think it's a huge mistake to let him sit in his poop until he is sore and red! That's just not healthy.

Sitting on the potty for an hour is absolutely not productive. It's punishment, and you cannot win a battle where he has complete control. Same thing with making him sit in the park and watch the other kids. Watching other kids is not connected with potty training at all. I'm not sure you meant that you made him sit there because he pooped in his pants in the park - in which case you had him sitting in his own mess. Or, if you made him sit in the park because he pooped in his pants earlier in the day, then you are separating the punishment from the act by too long a period of time. Either way, not productive.

Some kids just take longer than others. Some kids really have issues parting with their poop. I'd suggest you just put him back in diapers or pull-ups, and stop the arguing. It's a battle of wills right now, and he's winning.

I think it's fine that you make him clean up his own poop in the pull-up, as long as you supervise. Be matter-of-fact about it. Don't make it fun, and don't make it a lecture. The less attention he gets for this, the better.

The summer is a long way away in the life of a child. I wouldn't focus on the pool right now, and I wouldn't discuss it. He knows what you want, and he knows it irritates you when he does something different. He's getting more attention from you when he poops in his pants and when he laughs at you than he does with prizes and sticker charts. I'd put it all away and just let him know that whenever he is ready, he can tell you.

Let things cool off for a while. Stop talking about it. He may just do it by himself. Maybe not. Then you can SLOWLY introduce the idea that cleaning him up takes time away from things HE'D like to do. I'd put him in the shower and let him wash himself - you can read a book nearby to be sure he's safe, but don't engage him in conversation. Hygiene needs to become a required activity that is within his control in terms of how long it takes. When he completes his basic tasks (peeing, pooping, brushing teeth, cleaning himself), then there's time for playing and recreation.

Same goes for other chores - clear the table after dinner and get the dishes done, THEN there's time for a story and some special time. If he doesn't help in some small way with the clearing of dishes, then he has CHOSEN to give up story time. If he doesn't pick up his toys, then he has CHOSEN not to have TV time. If he continues to poop in his pants, then you're not able to do other things with him. When he's older, it will be different. You have to make it more matter-of-fact and less judgmental/punitive. Because it's turning into a control session - and they say that kids control what they eat, when they sleep, and when they pee/poop.

Good luck.

ETA - as soon as I posted this, the other responses popped up. I have to say I disagree with humiliating him in front of his friends. Shame is not a positive emotion or motivator - it makes it okay to bully and humiliate someone. And I don't believe in spanking - again, it just teaches that it's okay for a big person to hit a smaller person. Not the message you want to give him. Just ignore his laughing at you - leave the room. Do not reward him for it.

I would just stop talking about it. Put him in underwear when he wakes up in the morning and don't mention it. Let him use the bathroom when he wants and don't force it anymore. When he poops in his pants, quietly and calmly hand him what he needs to clean himself up and walk away.

If he poops in public, go straight home. Don't make a big deal out of it, just say "ok, we need to go home to clean you up now." He'll realize that missing out on the fun activity sucks and he'll want to learn.

Does he go to any kind of preschool or day care? What do they say? If not, maybe it's time to put him in a program where he's around other potty trained children.

The main thing is just stop worrying about it and making a big deal out of it. I KNOW it's frustrating, upsetting, annoying, disgusting, etc. But if he's laughing at you when he poops in his pants, then he's obviously doing it for your attention. Stop giving him the attention and he'll stop doing the behavior.

Have you had him checked by the doctor? It sounds as if he is capable of knowing he needs to go, and can control when and where, so there may not be any medical issue -- but frankly, if he's not crazy about going to the doctor, taking him there for this issue may be enough to shock him into poopiing on the toilet. I don't advocate scaring kids on purpose, but he might realize that "Mommy's going to take me back to the doctor if I don't do this." OK, not a great way to "use" the doc but still.....

Is it also possible that he still sees his poop as a part of his body and he is afraid of the idea of it being flushed away? Some younger kids have that issue: They can pee OK, but somehow poop, because it's more solid, is "part of me" in their minds and they are frightened when it comes out, and frightened again when it disappears forever down a hole. He sounds a bit old to be having this issue but it's possible.

I agree, it's worrying that things like "You cannot swim unless you do this" are not motivating him. At four, he is very close to kindergarten age. Is he in a preschool? Do they let him wear a pull-up there (they shouldn't, not at four). Having to be fully trained for preschool might be more motivating to him, if he were put somewhere he just loved. But certainly by kindergarten he MUST be trained or you will get calls the first day about whether he's ill, etc.

It sounds like you've stopped and started several times over a very long period. Don't go back to pull-ups now -- it will really send him the wrong signal. Having him sit for an hour at a time is not a great tactic because it turns into a battle of wills and control in his mind -- "I will NOT do it no matter how long she makes me sit here -- ha, I did it as soon as she let me get up!" More, much shorter but enforced toilet breaks might help. Also, do you distract him while he sits? Does he have special, very interesting books (favorite characters, etc.) that are only for potty time? I would ensure that you have some very distracting, very desirable books or toys that he gets only when he sits, plus a really desirable (to him) reward for pooping where he should. You may have to keep custody of the potty time books etc. so he can't get at them except when sitting on the toilet, but again -- don't let him sit longer than maybe 10 minutes.

Boys like poop in their pants, and you are making a big deal out of it so even the more a laughing matter to him. Try to reverse the message - "Son, I am so proud of you wanting to use the toilet to poop. I know you will get it soon" be consistent when he goes and try to not shed so much light on the fact that he is not going..it sounds like he is being stubborn about it to get your reaction.

Talk to your pediatrician. Pooping can be painful or feel really weird for kids. They may have some alternatives for you. Some kids are freaked out by toilets and pooping, some are freaked out by the pooping itself. Next time you poop, actually pay attention to the entire process and you'll see what I mean. Peeing is easy in how it feels body-wise. He may need some extra help so its better to find out.

Well first I think there is too much of a pressure build up around the potty. One thing every human being has total control of, in most cases, is using the restroom. So if I were in your position, I would totally chill and let the whole power struggle of the potty go. If it were me, I would very calmly tell my child that we were going back to diapers bc he was super duper close to being potty trained but just not quite there. Then I would change him when needed and say absolutely nothing about it. If he wants to potty, I would say, sure baby, let him take his diaper off and potty and then put it back on . Then I would get some awesome new underwear, like whatever super heroes he likes, an just set it out in the package in plain view. When he asks, not before, I would say, oh that is special big boy underwear, when you can pee and poop in the potty for one whole day, you can use your big boy underwear. And I wouldn't say another thing about it. My first was, well is actually very strong willed. I did this and he would just look at his new underwear and think about it. One day he said, 'ok, I am ready!' Three days later he was in underwear, overnight, totally trained. I did something similar with my three yr old who just trained, and two days later, he was in underwear, doing great. With both of mine now trained I have not done stickers, rewards or any of that. It is just the potty, so I kept it low key. Good luck, I think you can have it all done in a very short time if you let it just chill for a little bit.

Our son was almost 18 months old when he was trained and then my husband and I went on vacation and left him with my parents, who were with us everyday, so not much change there. When we got back, he refused to go on the toilet for us. We let it go until he was 3. We started telling him a month before he turned 3 that at 3 he didn't HAVE to wear diapers anymore. On his 3rd birthday. We said, "Yeah! No more diapers!" His look was contrary. Within a week, he was perfect, no "accidents."

This is NOT a pediatrician issue. This is a willful/stubborn kid. Its not like he's 6 months old. He's 4 years old. You have to appeal to him logically, as the emotional ramifications are not impressive.

My daughter is like that, she has almost no currency. We finally took away all of her dresses and THAT worked. No punishments and emotional persuasion ever worked for her.

Ask him why he does it and don't take "I don't know" for an answer. If my kids tell me that they don't know, I ask them, "why do you sick a soccer ball" and they tell me, "Because it's fun." Ok, so there is a reason that you do everything....something that motivates you. WHY ARE YOU DOING X?

Sit down and talk to him like an adult. I think you will find that he has a reason, but stop with the emotional punishments. It'll never work for him. Use logic. Trust me. I bet he wants more control over his life in general. some kids at 4 are wired more like 12 year olds. Do you pick out his clothing? Do you wake him up? Give him back as much control over his life (within reason) that you can....but sit and talk with him. Don't start off or even discuss emotions. Once he knows it upsets you, he has control. Just start off by saying, "So, we need to chat. I'm trying to understand you, so I need to know why you like poop in your pants. I'm interested, because I've never met anyone else like you. You are super smart and so I just wanted to know." Appeal to his male stubborn side with compliments. ;)

Oh yeah, and let him do laundry...especially his own. My kids are 4, 6, and 10 and they all do laundry. I showed them once and once the basket gets full, they do it. It's not rocket science.

Good luck!