I Need to Talk It Out

I avoid taking my kids to Walmart like the plague- it brings out the worst in them and me. I think the best consequence for all of you is no more Walmart!

Nope - being forced to give away new toys isn't a good consequence. Having a toy be put in "time out" where they can't play with it for a week is a consequence. But if you force them to donate, they'll resent you and the donation. They're not learning to be charitable. They'll learn that when mom is mad she can take things away.

I think you should concentrate on them giving because they want to and should, not for being "ungrateful little jerks". Have they ever actually seen poor children who have little or nothing?

As for the WalMart incident, they could be punished in a different way.

Blessings....

I understand that. And although I've been tempted to do the very same thing for the very same reasons, I stopped myself precisely because giving is very special and important in our family and I certainly don't want it to be looked at with negative feelings. I think that's how kids could end up being grinchy or resentful.
I would punish the behavior at Walmart by some other means (by now, in my opinion, too late----just plan/prepare for what you think is more appropriate and realistic for the next time).

Time for the talk about embrassing their family in public...

I swear I think it's the Evil Empire (Walmart). My kids turn into little monsters in that place when they were perfectly fine beforehand. It's like there is subliminal messaging going on over the loudspeakers that only they can hear.... lol
Anyway, sounds like a good plan. Let us know how it works out.

I think if you had the audacity to drag two kids into a Walmart 4 days before Christmas at nighttime, then you should cut them some slack. LOL

Seriously. I was in our local Walmart last night. I needed marshmallow fluff (never could find it, must've been sold out). As I was walking down the rear main aisle (that connects the automotive and grocery ends of the store---you know, you walk past all thew rows of sporting goods, bikes, toys, electronics, then shoes then baby clothes, THEN you hit groceries!)... in the area by babies clothing and girls' clothing... there were two big groups of "adults" literally SCREAMING at each other. Profanities. Threat's to fight. Calling "B*tch" "bring it on" etc etc... Thankfully, one of the #*$&#*)'s group of friends dragged her away, bc the other person was waving her arm and yelling bring it on. I am not making this up. There was no where to detour around it. I thought security would be called and show up... never saw them. Eventually the one group wandered off and an opening in the crowd allowed me to pass on through to the grocery section.
I was so thankful I didn't have my kids with me. Such a ridiculous spectacle. But, unfortunately, not completely unexpected after dark at a Walmart this close to Christmas. Don't know why people feel so free to act so angrily and aggressively at Walmart, but it sure seems to happen there more than any other stores.

Please don't make them give up their toys as punishment. They will be angry about it rather than having a happy heart. Not what you want. Let the lesson be yours this time: don't drag them to Walmart 3 days before Christmas, lol. Not to mention, it's 3 days before Christmas! Kids get so caught up in the excitement and anticipation that it is stressful for them. The anxiety makes it harder to behave. Even for normal little angels.

If you still choose one of their gifts to take to church, don't tell them it WAS theirs. Just tell them that you have this/these gifts to take to church for the less fortunate. Let them feel good about it.

Ugh. Tough O.. No--I would not make giving seem like a consequence...step back from this, T., and look at the big picture.

Better to do the portablenorthpole.com video and make sure to fill out the "need to try harder" items........

Why do kids get so CRAZY the week before Christmas? It's like they all grow horns and devil tails!

I agree with your thought that you don't want charitable giving to be seen as a punishment.

I think you should wait a day, because when kids pi$$ the heck out of you, you usually get over it in a day or two. The truth is, at that age, you just have days like that with them sometimes, because they are tired, or overstimulated, or whatever.

I think you will feel better about it tomorrow. Sometimes it's best to let things go, and this time of year is one of them.

I think you should just take them shopping to pick out gifts to donate. I did that with my kids and at first they were upset because it wasn't for them but then I told them how lucky they are to get gifts and how not every family can afford gifts for their children and some children get nothing. And that I had already shopped for them and so they would be getting stuff. Once they figured it out they loved picking out gifts for other children that needed them. I think that lesson would be more valuable than teaching them that charity is punishment.

Nope. You're just mad, and I do understand! :-) You are right, charitable giving should be a joy, not a punishment. Don't tie the two together. If they need a consequence or punishment, take away tv or video games for a couple of days, or something that matters ALOT to them. Get them to give a gift because it is a beautiful thing to do. In fact, maybe there is a family you guys know of who are on hard times and you could go over there with gifts and a meal? But not when you're mad, and don't "force" the kids to do it, only do it on their willingness so they're not resentful. That's my opinion.

You are absolutely right about charitable giving not being equated with punishment...if you are in the mood to take something away, just pick something near and dear out of their rooms and give it a "time out" for a week or so...that has worked with my daughter (almost 13).

I feel your pain T.! I went through periods like this with my daughter, where nothing I did seemed to work. We still have episodes, but overall it does get better...Comes down to consequences, consequences, consequences : ( I know, it's no fun being The Warden lol

I would still have them give the gift, but not as a punishment, but as a life lesson on giving. I wouldn't even mention that the gift was supposed to be theirs. Teach them to be compassionate and giving. That's a good thing.

About your children acting like that, well, that's a whole nother thing. ;) I want to encourage you to work purposefully and with great diligence to get them under control. At nearly 5 & 6, there is not one good reason for them to behave the way they did. Okay, maybe if they are sick or someone just died, I don't know. But, overall, no excuse. Children, like adults, should be a joy to be around. Teach them to respect you and those around them. Don't allow the disobedience. Yes, there is a learning curve there, but one that should have already been overcome by this late age. It will only get harder the older and stronger they get.

Quick question. I think I probably already know the answer, but do you call them names to their faces (like little jerks)? I doubt you do, but just in case, I wanted to encourage you to stop that now. Kids have a way of living up to our expectations. Create an environment of joy, one where they know that they are treasured, loved, etc. And not one where they know they are annoying, pesky, irritating, etc.

Parenting is hard, isn't it?

Charitable giving should never be a punishment. Think about it -- you want to instill in them a lifelong desire to give and share. Punishments are things that we want to avoid. So if you make them do this as a punishment then how will you be fostering a love of giving to others. The punishment needs to be logical to the crime. Here's what worked with my kids. They were being perpetually bad at the store. "I want..." "Pleeeeeeessssseee!" "Whine, whine, whine." Running away from me in the aisle, being mean to each other. I was done with that kind of behavior. So when we pulled up to the store and I clearly told them what was acceptable behavior at the store. And I laid out the consequences. If you make it through the whole grocery trip without any warnings on your behavior, you will get a treat at the end. Both of you together get two warnings on behavior total. Once the two warnings are gone, if you behave poorly then we will leave and your dad will have to go to the grocery store instead. Dad will not be happy about that, and I will not be happy about that. Then I had them repeat back what was good behavior and what were the consequences to be sure they understood. I left our cart in the middle of the aisle that day and I dragged screaming kids from the store "I'll be good, we promise, we'll be good." I calmly told them that they knew what the consequences were and that if I let them stay now I would be a liar.
That was the last time they behaved poorly in a store. Now all I have to do is give them one warning, and an occasional review of what is acceptable behavior. They know I am serious and will follow through on punishments. One thing to note -- I fully expected to leave the store with them that day. I had already set up with my husband for him to do the shopping later in the day if the kids were bad on that trip. I also knew that we were out of what my kids love to eat for lunch (extended consequence). In other words, I was prepared to put such a drastic consequence into action.
Good luck! Find a natural or logical consequence for their poor behavior instead of mandatory charitable giving.

Giving to others comes from the heart not from a punishment or consequence. Also,we have to remember that this time of year is stressful for everyone, including children. Parents are rushing around, probably fussing at kids more than usual because of stress, kids are excited and out of their normal routine of going to school. It's normal for children to act out, but we as parents get more angry about it near the holidays because we think our children should be grateful for having loving parents and so many material things. I don't think your kids aren't grateful, they are just being kids. They aren't going to become thoughful, giving, individuals over night. That is part of what we need to teach them as they grw and your kids are still very young. I would sit down with them and tell them how disappointed you were with them and why. I would, also, let them know that you are planning on giving something to the church for a needy person and that it would be wonderful if they would consider giving, too. I believe it should be their choice, without being guilted or shamed into it. Then go as a family to donate the items. Also, find some other ways to give back in the coming year. Maybe volunteer as a family so your children can learn more about helping others. Merry Christmas!

I think if your kids have more than enough, it would be awesome for you to give a couple of things to the church. There may be a child somewhere who would not get anything if it weren't for your donation. But don't make it a punishment for your kids. I think your consequences were very appropriate.

If you want your kids to know the joy of giving, you could wait until after xmas and have them choose a gift to give to the local homeless shelter or battered women's shelter. Or, they could just donate some of their "gently used" toys.

But I would still pick something myself to give to the church before xmas.

A dilemma we all have - our kids really have so much. it's said that if you can afford to buy a book and have the education to read it you are richer than 2/3 of the world's people. nearly half of the world's population lives on less than $3 a day - including food, shelter & clothing.

I am determined that my kids and I will spend a part of Christmas day to go online to World Vision so we can pick out a goat, chicken or water filtration device to buy for kids in another part of the world who are really in need - and I plan of getting some of their Christmas money from them (from Grandmas and Aunts/Uncles) to pay for it. I've already planned it into the day.

Also - if at all possible make sure your kids, as they get older, get involved in outreach opportunities in your area. Either at church, through a food pantry, etc. Now that my kids are older they are required to joing their youth groups in outreaches. My kids have helped at food pantries, picked up garbage, raked leaves for the elderly, etc. It's our responsibility to make sure they learn this stuff from us.

I would not handle it that way. But I can see your frusteration and I too could have lead to that conclusion in the moment and the season.
Watching videos of kids who are not healthy in india or africa on utube may give them the heart of greatfulness and the spirit of giving on their own in which they may choose to donate or give away such a gift and make that a yearly or month contribution.

I think you're right.

I think your consequences were fine - just always be consistent with the discipline for bad behavior. My son, now at 15, knows when he has pushed too far and knows "the look" - 90% of the time he immediately shuts it down.

As for donating to the church - go for it! But do not make donation to charity a punishment - it will negatively tinge charitable giving for them. Just quietly pick a present that you know they will not miss and bring it to church. Next year involve them in holiday giving by picking a family/children to purchase gifts for and have your children help select them.

Merry Christmas

To me it sounds like your answer is in your SWH. You say they don't behave that way with their dad and he's much more strict.

If you want them to behave with you the way they behave with their dad, then you need to take some lessons from how he handles them.

At the same time, kids have bad days. Especially around Christmas. They feel the stress, too, they just show it in different ways. I don't think forcing them to give up a gift they didn't know they were getting will accomplish much.

And I'm not clear on how donating a gift to the church would be a "concrete consequence" for arguing with each other and talking back to you. The consequence has to be relevant to the infraction. They would remember the "consequence" but they would remember it as mom being irrational and mean - not as a result of anything they did. It's not like they were opening their gifts on Christmas morning and complained about them the whole time...

I think you already know the answer -- charitable giving shouldn't be a consequence of bad behavior. By doing that, your children will grow up resenting it, and giving should be a joy.

I agree with your original hunch to not make charitable giving a punishment. And if you did, that negative experience would be their memory of this Christmas. All of your love and labors would be overshadowed by this negative memory. - Best wishes for a JOYFUL Christmas!

No No No! Don't give your kids toys away and don't make them do it. It was a moment in time, it's the holidays, everyone is antsy, and they are really too young for that type of lesson. If they want to give, it should be their choice. That is how they build character in making decisions on their own.

Are your little ones still 3 and 4? It would be very hard for them to connect 'give up a toy' with crappy behavior at the store. They won't reflect on their own actions; they'll just think you are a 'mean mom'.

If you have the resources, consider not taking them out with your for errands for a few times/days. When they ask, just tell them "I only bring kids to the store who are using good manners. It's not fair to other people when you are rude." Short and sweet and it isn't about you gettng mad at them.

The consequence (in the moment) might have been a 'take a break' stop at the store or no videos/fun at home when they got home. My sister has older kids and when they act up on outings, she just tells them "don't worry about having to come to X with me; next time I'll be getting a babysitter, and you'll be paying for it from your allowance." This helps, when kids are older.

My son is four and knows that if he misbehaves at a store or restaurant, we leave. Now. Right away. A couple of times (out of consideration to my husband, who wants to eat his dinner of all things!) I've just taken him to the car and told him 'We are going to sit in here until you are ready to cooperate.' and then, zero interaction. I pack a book or magazine in the car for those occasions... deep inside, I'm sometimes fuming, but staying emotionally disengaged is the key to not feeding attention-getting behavior.