Just a Rant, Really: Feeling Unappreciated and Undervalued.

We both work full time. The boys are 6 and 1 and in school/ daycare. Hubs does drop off. My parents do pick up and after care. Hubs does laundry, shopping cooking and bill payment/ finances. We use a monthly cleaner. Scheduling, party gifts, clothes shopping organizing summer camp, doctors runs etc. fall on my shoulders. That which he does, he does without being asked. Anything outside of that realm he needs to be asked to do, sometimes delays and sometimes resents.

Frankly so do I. Working on how to improve this.

Good luck
F. B.

First off it is not men. My husband is a fifty-fifty person by nature. In fact if I don't pull him back, he'll take over and take charge so I don't do "too much." No questions asked he'll do what needs to be done and never expects a thank you for it. My husband loves our kids and is a kid person in general. His marriage and his family are his number one priority. In contrast my first husband was the total opposite. Sat on his butt while I did it all. One of the main reasons I divorced him was because I could not imagine adding kids to that dynamic. I could barely do it all for two adults. What a thankless existence.

Second go see a counselor. Sort through how you are feeling and move on from that knowledge. "Ranting" to a professional can make a world of difference in how you view yourself, your place in this world and the relationships which make up your world. My husband and I went together for a year and it changed both of us for the better. I had no idea how many stumbling blocks I had in my thinking which was spilling over onto every facet of my life.

an awful lot of your rant was prophylactically warding off disagreement.

why do you assume most women will make excuses for your non-partner?

i don't know many modern women who say 'men are different' as an out for men who don't participate in raising their kids or running the household.

i myself would not 'settle for' a lousy husband who is 'amazing with the kids'. i don't believe lousy husbands ARE amazing daddies. part of being an amazing daddy is being a decent partner.

i guess my perspective is skewed from having had a fully participating partner from even before we were married or had kids. i don't get how anyone tolerates anything else.

as for your final question, if it's real and not just in there to make your rant okay, yes, men who participate in family life and parenting do exist. i'm sorry yours isn't one of them, and don't have any advice for how to handle yours, but they absolutely positively do exist.

i hope you do more than rant about your sucky situation. i hope you take steps, whether it's counseling or laying down some decent boundaries or moving on, to get yourself out of serf mode.
khairete
S.

Was he always like this? What drew you to him?

My friends in situations like yours married men that were like this. My friends took care of them. I used to shake my head, but that was their thing. Once they had a house and kids, it wasn't working. They started to complain that they did it all and were expected to. But that's what their relationship was.

Sometimes you have to change yourself to see change in a marriage. I would personally suggest counseling for you.

One of my friends in a marriage like yours divorced her husband. She hasn't changed though. In a new relationship and she's still the giver.

It sounds like maybe you've lost yourself a bit because you are drowning in chores. And you are resentful because you have lost yourself in house and family and your husband has not. This is understandable, but instead of resenting him for taking care of himself, why don't you do something that is just for you?

I suggest you take some "me" time - sign up for a class at the community college - painting, gardening, etc, or maybe a fitness class - whatever strikes your interest. It can be anything that gets you out of the house and acting like an adult one evening a week. In addition to helping you find some sanity, your husband can take care of the kids and anything else that needs to be done that one night a week - since he says it's easy, this should be no problem, right? (I suspect he will learn it's not always easy, which is part of the point).

I know what you are thinking - you are thinking that you can't get everything done now and if you take a night off once a week, things will fall apart. Guess what - they won't. It will be ok, and you need to find some happiness doing something that you like to do.

If this doesn't work, then I suggest that you find a therapist for yourself - your husband doesn't need to come. Good luck.

I feel for you and I wish I had a good answer.
Perhaps it's time to print out what you have written and go see a marriage counselor.
If Hubby won't go, then go see one yourself.
You have to figure out if you're better off without him and figure out what straw is going to break your camels back.
Why did you fall in love and want to live with him in the first place?
Is that quality still there?
If you raise your kids together like this - they'll think this is normal and will emulate it in their adult relationships.
I wouldn't want that for the boys or for the girls.
By the way - get the kids on the chore list and get them all helping - then everyone is on the team except for Hubby.
Also - every so often take a week off and you go off on retreat by yourself and let them all fend for themselves.
Will you stay together to raise the kids and then split?
Good luck to you and I hope you find happiness where ever it may be.

No you aren't crazy for wanting a partner in running your family.. Unfortunately his background is different so he feels that he's doing his job by working hard to provide for his family. Period. Nothing will change unless he wants to change or you accept what he's willing to do.

Its sad when you fall into a pattern of behavior that you really don't like. Once the kids are grown and out you may be one of those couples who looks at each other and doesn't really have a relationship anymore.

A.C.

Instead of ranting here? Why not print this out and hand it to him and say - WE NEED TO TALK. ?

When we got married 20 years ago? We sat down and stated our expectations of each other - that came from being married before and learning from those mistakes.

When kids came along? We sat down again and said - okay - we need to change the expectations. I am NOT a night owl. I need my sleep if you expect me to stay home with the baby all day. You will need to take the late night feedings and diaper changes until he sleeps the night through.

As for the chores? I am notorious for breaking things - I can break a bowling ball (and have, put a nice big crack in it). I don't mind the house cleaning (now that I work, even from home? I have a crew come in every week and clean so I can work). During the week? I vacuum and pick up..

My husband takes care of the trash, outside stuff and things I break.
We take manage the finances together. Other than mortgage and a car that will be paid off this year? we have no debt, so everything is auto-pay (gas, electric, water, HOA, etc.). We do have a credit card that is only used in emergencies. I have small credit cards that I don't even use anymore, they are paid in full as well.

Does what you want exist? Yes. It does. You need to tell him what you need from him. WITHOUT NAGGING. Tell him marriage is a PARTNERSHIP and not some one-sided venture where he gets to come home to a clean house and pretty wife. Tell him YOU ARE FEELING OVERWHELMED and he MUST step up to the plate.

Tell him you feel he makes a lousy husband. He needs to hear your words. Do NOT tell him "YOU ARE" - tell him "I FEEL" he won't be as defensive at that point. This is going to be a hard conversation since you've let it go for so long. Nagging isn't a conversation. Telling him what you need and expect from him is the conversation.

Tell him you've thought about divorce because you are that unhappy. Changes MUST be made so that EVERYONE is happy - not just him.

YOU CAN DO THIS!! Chin up. This is your life too.

Your not crazy. Marriage is a partnership. It is teamwork. This is his marriage, his family and his house, too. My husband and I don't always feel like the other person is pulling their weight. Sometimes that true - we both get lazy from time to time. We both get overwhelmed at work or get sick or something and aren't as productive or helpful. But most of the time we forget that we just don't always "see" what the other person has done. We don't always appreciate each other like we should.

The problem isn't that you are asking too much (you don't need to sell me on that one :-) I suspect the problem is that he doesn't see all you do (just doesn't notice), he doesn't realize that you are asking for help and feeling like he doesn't do anything (because you haven't communicated it to him in a way that he "gets it") or he truly believes it not his job.

My husband was a little like this the first couple of years of our marriage. We had a honeymoon baby, and that's really tough when you're still just getting used to being married. It took me a good part of that first year and half of being married to learn how to communicate my needs to him in a way that didn't make him feel like I was just complaining. One thing that helped me was to be very specific and say, "Can you fold those clothes and start another load while I ... " That was a good start for me, but everyone's different.

It's difficult to know what you need to say to him or do differently without you writing a book about everything you've tried over the years. But I think the best thing for you to do is to talk to someone about everything you've tried over the years. You might really benefit from seeing a marriage counselor. You are at your wits end. You have reached your limit. You need someone to listen to you and really hear you and help you see what you can do differently to make a real change. Do this for you! You might find that going to couple's counseling together will be a very good idea, but start with you.

ETA - You mentioned your grandparent's marriage. I look at my inlaws, and I just don't get it. My FIL suffered from Alzheimer's and just recently passed away. My MIL said she did everything (housework) in their marriage, and she really resented it the last 10 years or so (when he had Alzheimer's!) She resented the fact that she worked outside the home and did all the housework and he would just take his retirement check and spend it on anything he wanted. But she did that to herself!!! She trained him all those years to expect just that! He complained to some of the guys that he didn't know what she spent her money on and they told him that it was his money too and to just go the bank and take it out and ... My comment was, "Wow, I would have said if you don't know what she spends it on you should ask her. Sit down and have a conversation about the bills and where the money goes and ... " She looked at me like I had 3 heads. "We don't talk about things?" She was honestly confused. (Shaking my head) How could talking to your spouse possibly confuse her?

Some great answers below and I won't repeat too many of the things I agree with. Just a few additions:

1. You teach people how to treat you. Stop excusing this as typical male behavior. It's common, but it's not biology and it's not universal. It's learned, and it's taught.
2. You use the term "help" with childcare. Why is it your job and he's a saint if he does one thing? Add up his hours at work (oh, boo hoo if he has a "physical job") and compare to your hours - I think you'll be shocked. And YES, you do need it to be 50-50!
3. How is he an "amazing daddy" if he abuses his wife and runs her into the ground? Would he endorse a man who treated your daughter this way?
4. You've hired out $500 worth of services. Good start. Why don't you total up what it costs to hire a nanny, chauffeur, cook, laundry person, personal shopper, nurse, entertainment coordinator, social secretary, bookkeeper/bill payer, appliance/equipment repairman, and... and... and....You can add in sex worker if you want to. There are tons of resources on line to do that. My guess is that it would cost somewhere around $150-200,000 to replace you, not counting your income from your job.
5. Why does he get a pass because he doesn't go out with his guy friends? If he's playing video games, watching football/TV or sleeping a full 8 hours, he's still not available to you.
6. Go to counseling. Figure out why you value yourself so little, and why you and your husband can't communicate and don't want to (and the communication problem is 50-50, for sure).
7. Go away for a 3 day weekend. MLK weekend is coming up - do that! Cancel the deep cleaning service and whatever else you pay for to keep you sane. Let the dirt build up. No one ever died from a bathtub ring or a bunch of dust bunnies. Do not ask. Do not take your cell phone. Do not pre-cook meals or stock up on food. Do not tell him what size diapers each kid wears. Do not ask his mother or sister to come help. Do not tell him who the pediatrician is or what time Jimmy needs his allergy medicine. Go see your old roommate, your mother, a friend or just go anywhere alone. Get your nails done if you're into that (I'm not) or walk in a nature area or take skiing lessons or sit in a hot tub or go to a wine tasting or take a yoga retreat. Go to a book signing, browse furniture or design stores and create a wish list. Take a scrapbooking or bathroom tiling class. Take yourself to lunch (I take a book all the time!) or read a dumb magazine or do Sudoku. Sleep late. Eat too many calories. Get on a hotel treadmill or in a hotel hot tub. Or both. Tell him it's either that or divorce or commitment to a psychiatric institution because you are going to break. Do not let him talk you out of it. DO NOT answer his calls. Let him manage. Honestly, the children won't die if they only eat cereal for 3 days or if they don't get a bath. Really, they won't. Get restored, and let him experience what you go through.

My husband is a hands on dad for cooking (well, reheating and making salads) and dishwashing and laundry. When my son was little, I took 2 days a month for JUST ME and my husband/son bonded like crazy. No one called me. No one asked me where I was going. I told my husband when I would be back so he didn't worry, and that was it. He encouraged it because he wanted me to be a whole human being, not just a mommy. It's the reason we're married for so many years. And our son grew up knowing that 2 people loved him enough to do his diapers and baths and play time and story time.

DO IT! You deserve it, your husband needs to learn it, and your children will not be whole human beings if they don't grow up seeing this!

AC, as others have stated, it's not all men, universally. It's the one you have chosen to make a life with, who is currently disappointing you.

I don't mean to diminish your feelings, but this falls into the category of Disappointments/Unmet Expectations. Try to keep it there. Sometimes this stuff has a lot to do with what your spouse grew up seeing. For example, my grandmother did all of the housework and the majority of the cooking.I don't think I ever saw my grandfather do any chores. Even when I was a little kid... he would sit in his chair, smoke, and watch tv while everyone else danced to his tune. My mom had the same expectations when she married. I was previously married to a man like this (who had his own deal-breaking issues and was happy to let me take care of him). I had to do my own work in counseling to get to a point of leaving and realizing what my own mistakes were so I didn't make the same choices again. My husband (now) was previously married as well, so we did a few years of counseling *before* we got married. We were committed to making things work and knew it wouldn't be easy. Counseling helped especially when our son was a toddler and I was overwhelmed with the demands. Our relationship has survived some strains because we both were committed and willing to listen to hard truths and good advice.

I would strongly encourage doing counseling for yourself. Over time, I've come to see that while my husband is really strong in some family-oriented tasks, he leaves me surprised sometimes in what he doesn't "see" that needs to be done. I also remember that he is using those skills at work constantly -- he has a complicated job that involves lots of foresight and problem solving. We both have our skill sets, things we notice that need to get done. We acknowledge that we are very different people, with different ways of doing things, and yet we are committed to making things work because we realize we are happier with each other and love each other a lot. We chose each other.

Please, get yourself some outside help for you. Dealing with the demands of young children most of the day can be draining. I homeschool my nine year old and some days, I'm cranky and wiped at the end of the day. Interacting with other humans all day can be draining. I don't have an outside job to apply myself to, where I would get some acknowledgment and kudos for a task well-done. I have had to learn to give that to myself. I do go out with friends in the evenings and try to be around people who are engaging and feel good to be around. Striving to find balance is important. Pick and choose what you find *really* important, and go find someone to help you figure out what you want.

So sorry dear, your married to a lazy, macho guy at least in relation to housework. Why not one or 2 days say you are sick and not do anything, insist on going to the Dr. or just stay in bed and not get out at all, let him do everything you have been doing for one day and perhaps he will be more appreciative of all you do........otherwise, ignore and find other ways to bring joy to your life, in lieu of a divorce that's really all you can do. Life can be happy and meaningful even in a lousy marriage.