Keep in Contact or No?

the lovely theresa N, FTW!!!
good luck, J.. i suspect this move is going to be brilliant for all of you.
:) khairete
S.

Yes, my husband and I both come dysfunctional families.

I had very, very limited contact with my family at best, and I too am the black sheep ( mom, dad, two sisters). Always have been.

I, however, am also the only one who got therapy as a young adult and tried to address the problems with family members. They had no interest in my "crazy talk".

For the past decade, the boundaries I had in place were sufficient until one year ago. My father fell in July 2013 and needed emergency brain surgery and in August 2013 my mother was hospitalized. She died of terminal cancer November 2013. My father was then diagnosed with vascular dementia and needed skilled nursing.

All of this brought me back into the circle of dysfunction. Even though they abandon me in my childhood, I could not abandon them in failing health.

What I learned is that none of them have changed. I found out that my mother and two sisters have personality disorders= they will not change and everything will always be my fault.

Dealing with generational dysfunction requires a therapist who can teach you about it, and therefore teach you to be healthy. I was lucky I found one and what she helped me to learn and do is beyond words.

Personality disorders and their behavior are beyond explanation. They behave so irrationally that when you try to explain it to others YOU look insane BC the behavior is just unbelievable. Which is why you need help dealing with it. It is exhausting!

One of my sister's kidnapped my father with dementia at 4:00am and moved him by med car 4 hours away on my Birthday with out telling me. Happy Birthday! She didn't even ride in the med car with him, and only stayed with him for 4 hours. She switched the final resting place of my mother, lied to my father about it, and then refused to take him to see it (he requested to see it). This was my past Christmas. My other sister refuses to come to my child's birthday celebration because I was not thoughtful enough to send additional reminder emails or phone calls after she responded to the email a month prior that she would come. So she decided to go to a free play with her husband that she got tickets to the day before, and of course told me how selfish I was for not being happy for her to get to go to the play. This is the third time i have been selfish when she had made a mistake. I cannot win because no amount of trying to communicate them would work (yes I tried them all). But this the the pattern of provoking and sabotage in personality disorders.

Yes, some days when the phone rings I do not know if it is Jerry or Dr. Phil calling.

I decided to not abandon my parents in their failing health (but have very strict boundaries) because in the long run they developmentally did not get what they needed and that is sad. But some how I did and they were a part of that, and ya know what? I am happy and healthy and they are not. But somehow they did their best, did and out of respect for them not having it, I felt I owed them.

I did not expect their failing health to come so soon or for the other family members to have arrested emotional development. Even when I thought I WAS DONE, I wasn't. They needed my help.

This experience has given me peace, allowed forgiveness, and given me closure.

Sorry this is such a novel.

I think my point is that some dynamics are so complex that the depth of them does not come across in a post, and needs outside help to navigate.

Please feel free to PM.

I have been hoping good things for you and your family :-). Glad you continue to do well!

It sounds like your family cannot handle success, even the steps you are taking to make something of yourself! I'm sorry!

I can't imagine being a mom and telling any of my boys that they are bad. My children are not bad, they make bad decisions and choices...they are not bad.

Please let that voice of your mom go. Look at everything you have done and be happy for yourself and what you have done. Walk away knowing that you will succeed on your intended career path and motherhood.

So I guess I would walk away and not look back. You don't need people pushing you down in your life. You need people building you up.

I hear you. I have some of this in my life also.

The best thing I have learned is to be myself. Put my family first, my husband and our daughter, and try to stay out of the drama of the dysfunctional family in my life. .

Some people just cannot be happy for other people, some people just do not know how to be supportive and I just cannot be a part of their drama and dysfunction.

You are on a good path. You are on a new adventure with your family, you keep on the path and do not allow anyone to drag you down or back.

All of this said. You do your blog. If they want to call you they will. If you want to call them just to see if they are ok, go for it, but when they try to pull you into drama, or try to push your buttons, you can tell them, "I do not have time for this" or "I am not going to get into this with you" .

I have also been trying really hard to say "Do not speak to me like this."

It might be a good idea to make a total break from all of them for several years (no communication - no Christmas cards, no phone calls/texts, no FB or social media, don't tell them your new address or phone numbers (consider doing unlisted so they can't find you)).
Establish a life where YOU feel good about you.
You, your Hubby and kids become a part of your new community, make new friends, establish your careers, live your lives.
Any contact with the old group will just prolong the guilt trips.
And really - get over that feeling of being ostracized.
This old group isn't one I'd want to be a member of in the first place.
You've got a brand new start in a brand new place so make the most of it!

That first move away from direct sources of craziness is a a big step, and I commend you on making it. I made that movement when I was 23 and single, and it was quite a process--ultimately extremely liberating, however also scary. I did stay connected with family and found ways to work through the issues, as well as learning to not get sucked back into the drama. I will say that for me, attending 12-Step meetings despite being 1200 miles away from my sources of craziness was a really important part of that process, and you might consider whether that would be helpful for you and your husband. I'm thinking of your past posts there, so ignore that point if it isn't relevant.

Laurie A has some great thoughts. I do think you will find that with separation, your interactions with your brothers and mother may change and you may be able to develop healthy relationships with them. It may take time and might not happen, however I think you can follow your instincts and see how it goes. If you need more distance for now, take it and know that you can always re-make decisions as circumstances change. It is great that you're taking these steps for yourself and your family, and I wish you a great transition!

ETA: all the other posters have good things to say too; I mentioned Laurie A's post because that was the only one up when I started writing :) Good luck again.

I like Laurie's suggestion of "Do not speak to me like this," but then you have to be willing to hang up, because that statement will probably invite argument in someone like your mother.

It's up to you whether to cut ties or not. If you don't, then yes, you need to learn to build boundaries.

Decide upon your truth, and speak it firmly. That's how you apply boundaries. Do not engage in argument once you have spoken your truth. Your mother won't like it, but too bad.

Good luck. Some of us don't get to experience a nurturing, caring, loving mother.

There is no such thing as a perfect family. Every family has its problems, crazies, etc...

You are looking for a fresh start, take it. Build your family. Get your family STRONG and one unit, then work on making sure you are strong enough to set boundaries and SLOWLY work your mom back into your life...not the other way around...

If your family cannot support you? then maybe you don't need them. I personally can't fathom a life without my family. We are very close and support each other.

You need to learn how to communicate with your family. "Mom. This is my career path. This is what I plan on doing. If I weren't on this path? then yes, I might have considered finding a job at John and Jane's school."

You and your husband MUST be a united front. You MUST set your boundaries TOGETHER....

Good luck on your move!!!

I don't think you should cut all contact, but I would severely limit contact. My brother and I had a major falling out many years ago (long story). Both our parents are gone so it's just us and various cousins. We speak maybe 4 times a year and see each other at Christmas. That's about all I can take of my brother. I'm closer to my cousins than I am to him, and I'm fine with it.

The bottom line is that you need to do what's best for you and your family. I hope that distance helps.

Don't call her, let her call you. Never stop giving her your number or contact information but just....keep your distance. Absence does make things so much easier. I promise. It's so much better when you move away.

Most of my biological family is messed up.. The drinking goes way back.. from grandparents to my own mother and father, including siblings and aunts. NOW.. most of those mentioned are now dead... HOWEVER, the addict behavior has now found its way into the next generations... drinking, heroine and so forth.. for those of us who don't USE... I have found that the dysfunctional thinking and behaviors have still hit home... what have I done...and to me has been my saving grace.. I attend AL-Anon and OA... the 12 step programs have helped me learn how to better manage my feelings and moreover, get rid of negative people in my life, which up until recently, I attracted a lot of.. after all, as a kid, dysfunctional people was what I was used to being around and then as adult that is what I attracted.. Of late, I finally mustered up the courage to ask my sister who agreed to be a part of my wedding as well as her little daughter at the time, why............... all of a sudden she stopped speaking to me.. without notice.. she just dropped out of sight.. and did so for years.. now, I thought I was prepared for most answers... like , hey I didn't want to do it.. OR I think you're an ahole and therefore, I chose to distance myself.. instead, I got.. ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.... and she proceeded to call me an eternal victim, delusional and well was just downright mean.. it hurt at first, but then I got past it and realized that I was chasing some dream that one day she and I would have a "functional" relationship... I finally woke up to the reality that unless all parties are willing to talk about issues, nothing can ever change... you can't just sweep things under the carpet.. you can still confront issues without holding a grudge, but IF no one else wants to talk about feelings, then you will get no where... my best advice is to get yourself into a 12 step.. do it for you... there are so many people in the groups who can relate to how you feel..... and so many success stories.. thing is.. even if you move away , delete facebook... you can't run from your feelings... also, the addicts of the family will always try and make YOU out to be the bad guy.. in which case.. you have to find ways to cope and deal.. ways that help you to live a positive life...
As for me.. unless my sister and can talk openly and honestly about feelings, then I have no use to be in contact.. and well, I realize now.. that she probably hasn't wanted to be in contact with me anyway.. again, it was ME chasing the dream..... I finally woke up to reality... just because your blood related doesn't mean you ll ever be close to certain people...
work on your own emotional health and gather the tools that the 12 steps have to offer and it will make life much easier.. I wish you all the best..

A lot of us have terrible stuff in our families, and it's so hard to accept that a) we didn't cause it and b) we can't fix it. We deserved better, but we didn't get it. All we can do is minimize the further harm to us and prevent that legacy from being passed on to another generations. We didn't get what we deserved, but we are obligated (perhaps more than we realize) to make sure our kids get what they deserve! That means they get loving parents who are focused on their mental health (not their material possessions) and who are raised with a sense of family (whatever that family is). We have a small family and a good chunk of it is pretty messed up, so my husband and I made sure to surround our son with "friends who might as well be family" and extended relatives (e.g. third cousins) who are terrific and loving.

I agree with the ways suggested below to get off the phone (anything from "This conversation isn't going anywhere" to "I refuse to allow you to speak to me that way") - you choose what works for you. One thing I do is write real, hard copy letters to my mother. I think about what I'm going to say (and not say), then I actually print it out and put it in a stamped envelope. She has to read it and then make arrangements to respond. There's no email with "click send and then regret it" and then her immediate, un-thought-out response. She can't interrupt me. If she forgets what I said, she can reread it. I also assume that my brother is reading it at some point so I put things in there that I either want him to read or don't care if he reads. Mostly I focus on light stuff, what our kid did or what the dog did, what was on sale at the farmer's market, what volunteer work I did, etc. My mother used to live here and so she knows the people & places; now she lives near my brother and is miserable. So I put in things that I think will be happy memories without causing her pain.

If you think your career path is a problem for your mother, don't put much in the letter unless it's too good to pass up ("I was commended by my professor"). Put in stuff about the kids and maybe a picture of them or something they drew. Think hard about a blog - if it invites more contact or criticism, go "low-tech" and keep it off the internet. You should be able to have a Facebook account without "friending" toxic siblings.

Geography is going to give you some boundaries that you have had trouble establishing up to this point. Let the natural divisions and space be the buffer you need. Focus on your new life and don't feel you need to justify it to those who will never be satisfied unless you fit into their mold.

Try, on some level, to feel sadness and pity for people who have so little to be happy about that they have to bring others down, for those who spend more time sounding others than building them up. Somewhere, your mother was shortchanged or abused or raised by someone who was damaged, or perhaps some mental illness was involved. Your siblings (as least some of them) adopted the same viewpoint. Try to view their attitudes as something profoundly sad and pitiable.

I feel compassion and pity for someone with a serious illness. But if it's contagious and incurable, I draw the line at getting close enough to get infected myself.

Good luck to you. Continue to be strong!

AMEN Theresa N.

Also, I like outofthefog.net (the Unchosen relationships section).

Good luck to you!

Thankfully I don't have a dysfunctional family, but maybe part of the reason why I don't is that I let stuff like you're talking about go in one ear and out the other. When someone in my family tells me things that I should do, I say "Ummm, that's interesting." Then I change the subject.

Look, you don't need your mom's approval. It's obvious to me from your post that you're trying to get it. You and your mom don't get along because she tries to control and you try to get her to stop. What you need to be doing is ignoring her trying to control you. She could tell you that you need to go to the moon and do your job for all you care. She can't make you. You don't answer to her or work for her. So why are you worrying about her telling you that you need to work at your kids' school later on? Let that go. Just say "Interesting idea, Mom. Something for me to think about..."

You don't have to tell people what you plan on doing next, either. Your mom can't fuss about your plans if she doesn't know what they are. In your family blog, only talk about what you DID, not what you plan on doing. That way you don't get on a guilt trip about anything...

Instead of cutting people in your family out of your life, just go with the flow and float up above it all. If you aren't talking about anybody, just listening, if you aren't pushing anyone to change their life to suit you, if you don't accept responsibility for things you don't want to do, you will be doing well. Only call your mom once a month. Let her call you some. If she is demanding, say "Oh, I'm sorry mom. That doesn't work with our schedule. How about date x instead?" And don't feel guilty. tell her what works and let her work within your schedule.

Stop worrying about being the outcast of the family. If you aren't asking for anything, if you aren't participating in the jerking around of others, if you aren't fussing and complaining about anyone, then you will have your boundaries. You do need to move forward, but that doesn't mean to walk away from people in your life.

I really think that you need therapy, to help you work through overcoming your history. I can stick out my arm and hit stacks of dysfunction, but it rarely bothers me because I don't let it. (It gets on my nerves, but it doesn't impact my daily life. I talk to the people I want to talk to when I want to talk to them. It's not all up to them.) You HAVE TO get to a place where you don't let it bother you--because you CANNOT change any of them, and you have to get yourself to a place where you stop trying to. You are expecting something other than what they are capable of; you've got to come to terms with that for your dealings with them AND everyone else in the world. Since your husband comes from such high dysfunction, as well, he can't really help you with that. I don't think that it's a bad idea for you to move--we do what we've gotta do, you know? I do, however, think that HAVING TO move is indicative of some way bigger problems, and moving only solves the immediate issues. It gives you space and time to work on what's really going on. Don't expect it to solve all your problems.

Please seek professional help. This won't just go away because you change residence. If you don't learn how to manage the crazy in your life--versus just running away from it--it will show up in other ways.