Would You End a Friendship Because of This?

The 2nd chance happens right up UNTIL he does any of the following
- treats her children badly
- uses her
- is cheating on his wife
Then it's not a 2nd chance anymore... it's STILL being a douche... and it's 2nd chance BLOWN.

Yeah. I'd be vexed as well.

Have you been telling her "straight", no holds barred BLUNT? If not, do so. It will probably end the friendship AND she might just get some sense knocked into her.

I dont get exactly what about her makes her a "bad friend". She sounds like a clueless doormat but that doesn't mean she is unworthy of friendship. It takes all kinds to make up this world, that includes the pathetic saps, the people who drain them and the ones that can love them anyway, and the ones that leave them. Which one of those are you?

Do her and you a favor and be her friend, and part of that is telling her the truth.

Call CPS.. they most likely WONT take the kids away but it'll give her a wake-up call.. and it sounds as if that's what she really needs. If you do end the relationship tell her why so she's not in the dark.

Here goes an Ephie Ramble:

Well, JUST to answer your question. I don't know. I've stayed in friendships where my friend/family member has been actively engaging in dysfunction and I've left friendships/family ties where the same has been going on. In either case, I've had to do a LOT of internal check ins.

What it comes down to is this: Am *I* getting something from this relationship. Is this relationship affirming my dysfunction and/or does enable me to shift out of it. When I'm with this person, am I the person I AM (and am learning to act as); do I feel like I have value and compassion, AND/or do I become someone who is fearful, shameful, obligated, compartmentalized, dishonest, self destructive, etc. Is that the inherent nature and product of this relationship, or something in ME that is stimulated by the situation, and CAN I learn about myself from working through it within the relationship? Am I here to fix THEM (which we don't get to do, no matter how we try), or am I here because it feels right, for me, to be here.

It's hard for me to work with/be in relationships with myself/people who are coping BY living in dysfunction (this is both a coping mechanism, as well as a system of damage). It's not something I get internally to change/fix, for another person. Though, I do get to choose (should that be my choice) to speak up and talk about my experience, what I see, how I feel, what's worked for me, and to share information about childhood trauma, adult addiction, statistics of domestic violence, etc.

For me, it's a LOT harder maintaining friendships/relationships where children are involved. Usually, it's been too hard for me to keep up. I can't deal with it on a personal level. Working next to folks in this situation, is somehow different because I'm not quite as emotionally invested and I don't make it about ME. The lines are clearer. I sometimes feel...toxic bearing witness to a loved ones damage. And, I forget that besides loving a person, offering resources and support, and being really honest (with myself and them), there's not a whole lot I CAN do to. Sometimes that feels liberating. Sometimes that feels really crappy.

And also, one minute it will feel right, and then it won't feel right again. So I have to spend a lot of energy checking in with myself (is this draining or invigorating. Is my investment conditional, is it about what *I* want them to do (am I pushing my agenda and what I think their path should be), or can I/do I want to/am I able to meet them where THEY are at?).

I've been in your friend's situation (before I had kids...although some elements of dysfunction are still with me/in my relationship and I get to/have to work out as a mother and wife too), so I resonate with your description.

My past is part of the reason why doing advocacy work, and sticking around for friends/family who are struggling in and with/their dysfunction, is productive for ME. I learn a lot about myself. I'm able to give back some of the strength and support that was lent to me (which feels empowering). AND also, it's dangerous, because it's VERY easy for me to fall into the: "I'll SAVE you" fallacy. Also, for me, it can be healing AND dysfunctional, and it's difficult to sort out.

If I'm able to see things as Just the Way it Is right now, it's different, for me than, this is what I want and I can't let go of it / this is the way it should be / this is about me.

PS, you're not going to be able to punish her or shock her into willingness to change. If she's willing to hear you out, about what you observe, that's fantastic. It's really more about where SHE's at and is *able* (within her internal context), to bring to the table, than what you're bringing to the table. This is decision is really, IMHO, about what feels right for YOU, and if you need to set boundaries for yourself...which is a personal decision and not about her or hers.

I would be pushed to tell her how bad it is for her kids and how selfish she is. Every time I have had these conversations, the relationship ended and I didn't miss this.

Once a Toxic person, makes me or my life toxic and/or my family (because they are affecting the way I am with my own family/Husband/kids)... then that IS a toxic dysfunctional situation and relationship/friendship... and thus, YES, I end it.
Because, I am cognizant of the ill-effects of a particular person/friend, upon me... and that is it.

Mind you, this is after my possible attempts at being the typical 'understanding' friend and knowing that no one is perfect and la-di-dah... and doing what is rational and possible.

So then yes, I end it.
Because, Toxic people/mentally ill people... can, over time, make YOU toxic too... and then directly affect you and then, how you then treat others. Because that person/friend, is making you, miserable and/or their "drama" and maladies... are making your own life... degraded. And damaged. And, making you... Toxic as well, mentally/emotionally.

And then you must decide to be your own person, or become an 'enabler' or not.
Or, if you then will need counseling, JUST because of this person, because they are degrading you, too.

And, ya know... being the "ONLY" "friend" she has... to me, is not an excuse or a reason... to keep on going.
It is not a friendship.
It is a dysfunctional... rapport. And you are that person's "Dumpster".
And who wants to be, that.

So then, yes, I end it.

Again, Toxic dynamics, are toxic, unless the person, realizes that and, takes FULL initiative in it, to move on.
If not, then don't grumble about it.

It is not worth it.

Case solved.

The other bottom-line is: I... will NOT "allow" anyone, to make me mentally ill or Toxic or emotionally unhealthy.... on purpose. Regardless if they are a friend or family member.

She's your cousin.
You can either speak your mind (not that it will guarantee any change in her behavior) or keep a quiet eye out for the kids.

Most beneficial would probably be the latter, don't you think?

I'd put some distance in the relationship if it were me. It's crappy the way she is doing herself and her kids, but what can you do, it's not your life and getting a front row seat is not helping anyone. When I have friendships like this, I put some distance for all our sake. Still be friendly of course, and maybe make a point to call her every couple weeks. If she is blowing up your phone, oh well. Just tell her you have been real busy when you call. She knows you are stable and that if she really wants to change you are there, so I wouldn't just cut her off, but I would back way off. I don't know that I'd call CPS bc foster care is not always rosy either so I'd get out of it. The less you know the better and the more likely you are to not be judgmental when you do talk, it is hard to know intimate details and then just listen and being someone's sounding board who has no intention of changing is not helping her or you. So that is what I would do, I wouldn't end the relationship but I would let it breathe a bit. Good luck!!

Although no one will like what i have to say i will still say it. YOU CANNOT HELP HER! She has to help herself and in order for her to do that she has to know what she is doing or not doing needs work. Its no different than an addict of any kind. You can try and try and try but until they truely see that the need help it will do no good. If the children are in an abusive situation or situation of neglect or foul play of any sort. around drugs violence or anything that poses potential harm/ danger and you know this for a fact(not just assume or feel like they are) then file a report with CPS. Protect the children in a way that legal action and keep them protected. And pray that she seeks help but until she does atleast you will know the children are in a better position. Good luck and I hope for the best!

Poor thing... sounds like she is a very damaged person, a person who has a bad past & no self esteem or self love because of it. Her life may be completely crazy in our eyes, but to her, it's most likely her "normal".

Have you told her how worried you are about her? I'd say, if you really love your friend, the best thing you can do for her is to talk to her about seeking some help to heal herself, from a 3rd party. Until she acknowledges her past & her issues, she & her kids will be in a cycle of destruction & dysfunction & she'll bring everyone around her down with her.

Now, if she is in denial & won't get help, then I'd say it might be time to back away. You can't help someone who won't help themselves. I am understanding of people's issues, but if they do nothing to help themselves & only complain, then it gets very draining. You are who you surround yourself with. For me, if a relationship becomes one sided & only a source of negativity & stress, then I'm done.

Do what you think/feel is right. Calling CPS is really hard, but....if they can stay together and be in a better enviroment, then call. Hurts so bad, but children should never, ever be put thru this type of abusive enviroment.

You want to be there for her because you have a heart. But she is in a constant state of crisis, which, is draining in everyway to anyone close to her. She contributes to her misery with her terrible choices, but she doesn't take anyones advice. I can't tell you what to do with the friendship, because only you know what you can live with. But it scares me to think of her kids safety. Too often you learn of kids being raped, beaten, neglected by the loser boyfriend. Don't you always wonder why these women leave their babies alone with their loser boyfriends? Please do call CPS or her family or both if their welfare is in question.

I am so so sad for those kids. Call CPS. Though it won't be easy on the kids, she needs direction of some sort. Her focus is not those kids. She is selfishly making decisions to feel better and feel loved. A huge disservice for those kids. You may be feeling guilty yourself if you call, but get over it. Those kids need a lifeline, someone in their corner. You are their only voice, the person, who truly sees into their life and what's accepable. You wrote this letter because you know its wrong not to do anything. Stop your loyalty to a codepedent friendship and be the angel these kids need. Step up, know matter what the cirmcumstances and loss of friendship that may occur. It surely won't be easy, but if you are waiting for things to get better for your friend....sounds like it won't happen and worse these kids are subject to vial hateful people. I am a single mom of one, I certainly do not have the same pressures as her, but my priority is my son. I grew up with a single mother who like her, couldn't get it together and subject to neglect and abusiveness of others. I only wished I had an angel to help us. Sure, it was the only world I knew, but I was miserable and lost. I am still wreathing with anger in my 40's for my mother's poor choices and lack of love to do the right thing. Be brave and do the right thing to protect those kids before soemthing worse will have and them you will really have to live with the guilt.

I am not certain of the detail here. When she "turns to you" is it to help her out? Help her kids? Just listen to her woes? Are you in a position to be of any assistance to her kids that they would not have if you were estranged from their mother? Is it so bad that you feel Child Protective Services should be involved? Is this a danger issue, or a moral one? It is obviously a messed up situation, and there seems to be a real shortage of adults behaving as responsible adults around the kids, but as for what should be done.... I'm afraid there just isn't enough information. If you feel the kids are in some sort of danger, but you end the friendship without following up in some way.... well, that is a burden I would not want to bare. Sometimes it is worth a little bother to "keep tabs" on a situation so you at least know if things go real far south, you would be a phone call.

Sorry, I'm not much help, but it seems like a delicate situation, made even more complicated by the fact that this isn't just a random friendship, but she is family. Have you involved other members of the family in your concerns? Had an intervention?

I'd be worried about the kids, and not so much her. It's sad, and you don't want to enable, but if all you are doing is offering advice or listening on the phone, then seize the opportunity to tell her everything you posted here. Maybe no one has ever told her directly, what she is doing, and the cycle she seems to be repeating. Usually if she is continuing to pick these kind of men, she has something else going on. You should suggest therapy so she can find some inner strength to be her own person, and not let people make her think she deserves this for whatever reason.

Stay in it for the kids.

I think it is time for you to get the family together and do an intervention. I am not a fan of CPS (or DCF as it is called here in CT) so I would suggest you use that as a last resort. I would hope that if her parents, siblings, other cousins, or aunts and uncles were to step in she would do something or something would be done. Number 1 concern would be the kids. You might consider telling her that if she doesn't get her live together in let's say a month then you are going to call CPS and have the kids placed in your custody and that she would have supervised visitation, maybe that would turn the lights on for her and give her the motivation to step things up. Lastly her ex needs to start supporting his kids and that means back support too. I know here in CT they will track him down and attach his pay. Let us know how things work out.
Hugs to you and the kids.

She needs help that you cannot give her...family or not....

the only thing you can do is tell her that she needs to stop dating losers...get into a counselor to help her find herself and her inner strength and confidence that she needs in order to chose better men in her life...

She can't use her bad childhood as a crutch or an excuse...as long as she has to you to turn to when things go bad, she will continue to make bad decisions...you can tell her that her decisions are bad - she needs to better not only for herself but her children as she is setting a VERY POOR example for her children but you cannot help her...when she is ready to make changes and to think better of herself - she can contact you - but not until then...I'll be here when you hit rock bottom...I love you but I can't do this anymore...the ball would be in her court

I"d call CPS - she's not a responsible adult and inviting strange men into their lives is just asking for trouble. It may give her a reality check she so desperately needs.

She needs to attend counseling to break the "loser" magnet. Been there, but I always had the strength to walk away and put my kids first. What children witness, they repeat. I did not want my kids growing up thinking this was acceptable behavior for adults.

I had a friend who was in a similar situation. She would call me crying and seeking advice...and would never take it. She ended up loosing custody of her kids, her house, and job. I had to break contact with her after she showed up at my daughter's 2nd b-day party covered with his blood. She said right before she was leaving to come to my house, he "accidentally" put his arm through the door window and she needed to take him to the ER.

Found out a few years later all she had lost by being with him and that they had gotten married. I do not contact her, but I do pray for her.

Whether they are family or not, right is right and wrong is wrong. Call CPS and get those children the help they need. GL

M

I call BULL$#it on her. Lots of people have bad childhoods and don't turn out crappy. My mother is like her and I have hardly any relationship with her - and I"m happy with that.

If she's doing anything worthy of calling CPS, do it. She is not your friend. Protect the children. She won't know you called, so you can still be there for the kids.

Good luck!

This is a very difficult situation. The situation is bad but eventually it will bleed over into your life and make you suffer also. She has no self esteem. Sometimes people have to reach the bottom before they can bounce back up. Call CPS and give her a wake up call. Sometimes that is what it takes.

Why don't you just give it to her straight and if the friendhsip ends than so be it! you will feel better in knowing you were the friend who did not pretend she is making awful decisions. Before you call cps I would talk to her and if you still feel the need to do so let her know, so she will understand this in not a joke to you and it shouldn't be to her, and she will think if my own friend will do this to me than I need to change.

She is not taking good care of her children, she enters into relationships to quickly and as mothers we cant do that, she is putting her own wants before her childrens ect.......

Good luck and I hope she will hear you!

I would suggest calling CPS...the relationship she is in it sounds like its only a matter of time before something happens to one of those innocent children...they are the ones that need to be protected...sounds like she neglecting them right now (at the minimum)...if read to many articles about women leaving their babies with losers and things ending tragically...as a mother your child always have to come first!

Unfortunately she isn't just a friend but your cousin. What you should do is call CPS on her. She is not protecting the emotional, physical or mental well being of her children through her actions. They have all kinds of couseling, classes in parenting and childhood development that may help her.

Her esteem is so low she would rather have a looser that be alone. Her esteem is so low she doesn't believe she can do better or have a better quality man in her life. If you care that much, you should take the classes for CPS to become qualified to foster children. They do have some pretty strict guidelines when it comes to how much space children need but if you can provide a stable environment for the children why not do that. Any call to CPS is anonymous and they assess the house. She should go to the courts and request custody and child support. It is her kids right to be supported financially by both parents.

You should help her. Don't walk away or distance yourself just yet. You obviously see a problem here & perhaps CPS can be the change that she's needing. She may be co-dependent for some reason like she has low self esteem or thinks that she couldn't possibly deserve better, but she does & you need to say that to her very adamently again & again, be adament on trying to help her. If you still can't get anywhere w/her then at least you tried & at that point after trying all options then maybe CPS would be the only answer but I'd really try to help her as best you can at first before walking away. Sometimes walking away is the only thing you can do. I had to do the same w/one of my cousins so I can really understand how you feel right now. Good luck.