Kindergarten Bully - Sterling Heights,MI

I don't care what Joe's problems are.
The school is obligated to provide a safe learning environment for ALL their students and socializing Joe does not give him a right to use anyone as a punching bag.
S.H.'s advice is right on.

Principal's office asap. While I understand this child needs to be taught the rules it seems like he's not being supervised enough to protect other children.

We had a similar child in my son's Kindergarten class. My son would comment on how disruptive this child was and the awful things he would do to other kids. He also mentioned that he was constantly getting into trouble with the teacher. I had not mentioned it to the teacher because my son was not a target or having issues with this boy.

However, several other parents immediately made complaints to the teacher and the director and he was EXPELLED. Please know that this is a private, not public Kindergarten. But his behavior was unacceptable and disruptive and threatening to the other kids. I suggest that you go immediately to the principal/director and request a meeting. A form letter is clearly not the answer at this point.

Best of luck to you! And I have to add that once this child was gone, the other kids had an amazing class and all was peaceful and perfect.

I'm going to say something that many aren't going to agree with. "Joe" needs a kid to punch him, knock him right on his butt, and stand over him and say, "you stop picking on other kids right now!"

Bullies only stay bullies until someone stands up to them.

I'm not saying it should be your son, but it needs to happen.

This child has issues and most likely the school is working on finding an alternative for him.

However, I think I'd get ahold of the 6 other moms and schedule a trip together to the school and a meeting with the principal. Don't get angry and badmouth the teacher. DO stand together and ask for the school to get another adult in there to shadow him until they figure out what they are going to do. If this doesn't work, you can always go to the school board.

I have a friend whose own son was a "Joe". He exhibited all of the same types of behaviours in his first weeks of kindergarten, and mom was at the end of her rope. He was kicked out of daycare and off the school bus, and she was really worried about what was going to happen with school. She was trying to get him a diagnosis so she could get him a para-professional, but these things take time. Prior to kindergarden the mom didn't want to accept the fact that her son had problems, but kindergarden opened her eyes. It was several months before he had a diagnosis, medication and an educational assistant in place.

I am going to guess they are VERY aware of what is going on and are following a procedure.

The parents have probably been made aware, the child has probably been given a behavior contract.

Arm your children with the rules of behaviors and remind them that this boy is not following the rules and to not play with him and to just stay away from him..

He actually sounds like he has some issues.

The deal with school is they have to accept and work with EVERY child that walks through the door, unless they are a private school, for an education. BUT there are procedures and documentation that must happen.

You have to be careful about ganging up on a child, if children begin to see this child as someone "bad", instead of a child with differences or problems,Then you run into, if he drops his pencil wrong, some classmates, will be tattling and looking for ways to report this child.

Our daughter had a boy just like this in her kindergarten class.The parents reported every thing their children told them and we told our children to not "tattle" about every little thing, but to let the teacher know if this boy was hurting ANYONE.. Turns out this child had some major issues and did not return to the school for 1st grade.

Early in first grade there was a kid who (though he did not target my kid) was a real issue on the playground. He was a bit subtler than "Joe" in your case and he tended to get boys off in some shrubs at the edge of the playground before he swung at them. He was Joe's opposite -- a pretty thin, small kid.

The classroom teacher was instrumental in dealing with him. I don't know who complained or how, but the kid ended up swiftly with his desk actually touching the teacher's desk, so in class his face was about five feet from the teacher's at all times. If there was a group time sitting on the floor together, for instance, he had to sit directly in front of the teacher, all the time. He also spent portions of each day in the principal's office doing his schoolwork -- he would be immediately removed from class and sent to the principal, who had him sit at a table inside her own office to do his work. In other words the principal and the teacher worked together and were not afraid to isolate this kid from other kids swiftly and without fuss. It was all done very matter-of-factly and they did not harangue or shame him, he was just either at the desk that abutted the teacher's or in the principal's office doing his math or writing or whatever. And the school instituted a "no one goes near the shrubs, period, ever" policy (and later trimmed back those bushes and small trees pretty heavily so teachers could see better in that area).

In a K classroom, you may find that there are not desks for each kid so the teacher can't put Joe right at her side, and the activities mean he must be around other kids. But I would suggest that it's time for Joe to become pretty much all but tied to the teacher with the option of removal from the classroom instantly if needed -- to do his work, not to be punished or his parents called, but to do his work alone in a place he KNOWS he can't put a toe out of line. That worked in the case of the kid in our school. And....the school, I think but don't know, probably worked with his parents a lot. I know I heard that they had come in to school several times for meetings with the principal when this new routine began.

It helped a LOT that the classroom teacher had 25 years of experience and was totally confident about how to handle this child, and not afraid to set him apart by moving his desk, or to tell him that today he was going to be her shadow. A less experienced teacher or a timid principal might be afraid to do what our teacher and principal did. And the teacher might really be unable to have him tethered to her as happened in our class those years back. But there needs to be an agreed, consistent "Here's what we do when Joe does X" response that the teacher, other teachers, the principal, the playground monitors, the lunch monitor, librarian, everyone uses.

And if needed, yes, tell the principal clearly that if your child is hit again, you are going to go over his or her head and contact the school board to let the board know that the school district's anti-bullying policy is not being followed. There surely is a written policy so get it and keep it nearby and use it to tell the school that if they don't end the hitting and other physical contact, you WILL go beyond the school walls for help.

Ask yourself what if this was your kid everyone was talking about? Think what would you do if you were that kids mom? How would you handle it? Take those ideas and work with the teacher, princpal and social worker.

It sounds like A. The child has uncaring parents, and treat him that way. or B. He has ADHD/Autism something that is wrong and they have to get a handle on it.

This could be the first experience with other kids for him and he does not know the right way to act or could be developmentally delayed for XYZ reason.

No, I would not be happy if this kid hit my kid. What school needs to do is find out why he is acting out, is he realitating for being ignored (at home or at shcool). In order to fix the problem, you need to find the root or you are just covering a small problem until it blooms to a bigger one.

Good Luck. Hope this gets resolved before it gets worse.

From my years working at elementary school, I would have to say that something is off with poor Joe. Sorry, but reading your post I felt more badly for Joe than for the poor kids who are taking his pinches and punches right now... I would wager that the school is trying to figure out what to do with the kid, if he needs to be evaluated, how to approach that with the parents, and possibly already going through that process and trying to find proper placement for him... Or get him a 1:1 aide... Those things take time.

Or not... But I am sure the school is trying to figure out what the heck to do with him. If you aren't getting much reassurance from the teacher and the problem for YOUR son doesn't seem to be improving, it might be time to call the principal. But don't get all riled up on Joe with the other parents, I'd focus on what has happened with your own kid and if it is still happening with your own kid.

I bet it sucks to be Joes parents right now. Sorry but sometimes I just can't help seeing the other side of the coin.

Something similar did happen to my son in kindergarten. It took a long time for the issue to be resolved despite extreme concern from the teacher and administrators. For one, there are district guidelines and required procedures they had to follow. Second, in this particular case the parents were in denial and didn't initially cooperate, which slows everything down. In our case, the first step was requiring the parents to spend time at school "shadowing" the child. The next step was suspension. It wasn't until the end of the school year, unfortunately, that the parents finally agreed to have the child test and he was moved to another school that could provide the services he needed. I suspect the parents were threatened with expulsion because he hurt a girl in class and he hurt my son on the bus. The school needs to balance the rights and needs of the child with the safety of others. It does sound like, at a minimum, he should not be allowed on the playground unsupervised. Losing playground privileges was one of the first tactics employed at our elementary school. In our case I had a good and previous relationship with the teacher involved and she gave me perhaps more information than she should have, although still not as much as I would've liked. I know she was trying really hard, had a lot of concerns and was doing her best to protect the safety of the other children, but she was frustrated because she felt her hands were tied by the hoops she had to jump through and the uncooperative parents. Good luck.

I understand your concern, I too would be livid. That said, I don't necessarily think this is a case of "bullying" as it applies to the "zero tolerance" bullying policies. Not that his behavior isn't similiar to the typical "school yard bully" because it is very similiar. But this a a 5-6 year old acting out, needing guidance on behavior (and possibly has a condition that requires a para-professional to be with him to help him control himself). They need to address this issue in a way to help this child WHILE insuring the safety of all the children.

Since the teacher is aware of the situation but it continues, it is time for all the parents to go to the next level. All of you, either invididually or as a group, needs to make an appointment with the principal or vice-principal and maybe the counselor and/or teacher. Calmly but firmly tell them "XXX is happening and I know "teacher" is addressing the issue; however, our children continue to be hurt by "Joe" and it needs to stop immediately. We fear for our children's safety. While we understand that you are most likely taking appropriate steps to address Joe's behavior in a way that is supportive of him and his circumstances, and we hope you do, that is not our concern. We expect our children's wellbeing to be insured immediately. We are hear today to formally ask how you are making that happen starting today."

If you are able to, or if you can all take turns, start going in to observe EVERYDAY. Document what you see done/not done. If things don't change immediately, go to the school superintendent. If that doesn't work, you go to the School Board. If that doesn't work, try your local media outlets.

Zero tolerance applies to bullying, if the child has an IEP the school is not seeing this as bullying but a child with control issues. You allude to this with "socializing", para, a few other things. If the child is spectrum he isn't bullying anyway.

Not sure what they are doing to protect the other kids but I am sure they aren't going to share it with you because legally they can't.

My son was the spectrum kid with anger control issues. He never struck other students but then I was all over the school about making sure there was no chance another student could be hurt. After all what is the point of inclusion if all the other students are scared to death of and avoid the child?

One thing they should be doing, of course this is me speculating the child is spectrum, is monitoring his interactions with other students. Like asking for a snack, things like that. Nothing you described ever happened with my son because social interactions were the basis of his IEP and that was watched closely so they could teach him proper responses and understanding the emotions of others. If he were to ask a child to share a snack a teacher, resource or regular, would have been right there to manage the interaction.

If you are a SAHM, I would let the school know that you will be attending class with your son for the next week so that YOU can protect him since the school is not. Take your phone; watch "Joe and photo his actions. Also, watch the teacher. Is she paying attention to Joe? Knowing what she knows about him, her eyes should be on him MOST of the time.

Then, take your photos of Joe's actions together with photos of the injuries he has caused, and the e-mails you have sent to the school putting them on notice. Then, sit down and write a letter to the superintendent of the school district, copied to both the teacher and principal providing a copy of your documentation and tell them that they should consider this official notice of what's going on and now that they have official notice, you will hold them responsible. You will be contacting legal counsel and will file a lawsuit alleging their failure to provide a safe learning environment and specifically their failure protect your son and the other children. Send your letter certified, return receipt requested so that there is no doubt but that they received the letter.

The ONE thing that gets schools off their butts is the threat of legal action because it will cost them money. There is NOTHING the police can do about a 5 year old bully. They cannot even come to the school and talk to the child. He's just too young for police involvement. But if the school and the district think you are gathering evidence for a lawsuit, they will stand up and pay attention.

Oh, and I did have this happen to my grandson at the 5th grade level. I handled it with a letter from a lawyer. Went to the police and they said that until the child is 12, they can't do anything. But they were the ones who suggested the letter from the lawyer and it worked. After that, the bullies (2) were sent to the office just before the dismissal bell and they were kept in the office for 10 minutes allowing the rest of the kids to leave without being hassled or bullied by these kids. That would never have happened if I didn't have a letter from a lawyer threatening a lawsuit.

You need to first go into the school calmly as a group. If you go in guns blazing, you are going to find yourself going nowhere.

Clearly Joe has some special needs, which means Joe should qualify to have an aid with him at all times.

One of my DD's attended a special classroom, half the kids were 'normal' and the other half were of varying special needs. It was a great class, it did have problems, but there was one teacher, and 5 aids for 15-20 kids. The kids learned a lot from each other.

One other DD had an autistic child her in class. He was a handful, and he could be really mean when over stimulated. The kids were able to recognize when a blow up was going to happen and would 'run' for the hills so to speak. It didn't get better till the school brought him in an aid. They found more activity for this boy helped so if he became overwhelmed they would get up and go outside.

Sounds like Joe needs this in place. His parents might be fighting for it, and going no where, but as a group of parents fighting for it, the school will have to listen. If not threaten to go over the principals head. It's not about just protecting your children, although I understand that is your priority, but it's also about making sure Joe get's what legally he is entitled to.

I am so sorry you and your children are dealing with this. I had a similar problem when my son was in kindergarten to the point my son started fighting back and getting in trouble. I do not encourage hitting or fighting at all but at the same time even a child can only take so much and they will defend themselves or atleast mine did. I had sent emails, visits to the school, talked to other parents even went to the school board. It just became a nightmare. I finally went to the school and had his class changed. Nothing else was being done and now my son was acting out so I had to nip it in the bud. I would suggest you and the other parents go to the school and meet with the principle and demand something to be done. If that doesn't work, call the school board and you can file a complaint. Best of luck

My daughter was being bullied this summer at daycare. She came home with fingernail marks in her hand that were still there the next morning. I took pictures of them that night and showed them to the administrator and teachers in the morning, along with her hand and the fact that the marks were still there. They had conversations with all the kids about being kind and talked to the parents of the kid that had hurt my kid. We didn't have any more problems with anything physical against my kid.

You need to make sure that you are documenting the marks that come home, and I would suggest talking to the other mothers, seeing if they'd documented it, and even if not, all of you visiting the principal together. I don't care if the child has developmental problems or what, they need to protect all of the other kids. Perhaps the threat of a lawsuit by multiple parents will get them off their butts to protect these kids.

I would be a squeaky wheel. I would ask the teacher how is it being handled, because on three occasions this week your son reported being hit by this kid, even after the letter. You might want to photograph the marks and ask why your son continues to come home banged up like this because they can't prevent Joe from hurting him.

I would encourage the other parents to do so as well, and all of you can take it to the principal and/or school counselor if it persists. It's one thing to blow off an email. It's another to blow off 7 angry parents sitting in your office.

My DH once wrote a school and said that if they wouldn't deal with SS's bully, that he had given SS permission to defend himself if attacked again. SS was also told to first try to walk away or say, "Sam, leave me alone."

My SIL works with special needs children and sadly sometimes the support isn't there til there's a problem. So if he should have an aid watching him and they've cut the budget, they need to figure something else out. He cannot be terrorizing the class.

ETA: My DD got a form sent home the first week of school. If she is bullied, we are to fill it out and make a formal complaint. If there is no form in your child's school, then you should find an appropriate substitute or write a formal letter (not just an email) reporting this based on the school's own anti-bullying policies.

I would actually TALK to the teacher. Standing around talking (gossiping) with the other moms doesn't do any good. Find out exactly how the behavior is being dealt with.
If you feel you're not getting any reasonable answers from the teacher then TALK to the principal.
Sending emails is a great first step but if you feel like nothing's being done you need to take the next step.

At this point you all need to send an email to the Principal and the teacher jointly telling them that this issue needs to be resolved IMMEDIATELY or you will have to take it to the school district.

There was a student in my child's class in 1st grade that behaved like that then escalated to throwing chairs at children and adults. It took threatening the school staff with going to the school board and law enforcement before they took things seriously and remove the child. Yes they have a fine line to walk if the child has a 504 or an IEP (which they can not legally inform you of) but they are not allowed to put your children at risk. "Joe"'s parents may not like it but he needs more help than he is getting in that class room.

Yes, I would be emailing the Principal while still keeping a dialogue open with the teacher. I would also be coming in for lunch and recess so I could observe this behavior myself - if the school allows you to do so.

I am a lunch/recess supervisor at my daughter's elementary school and let me tell you, the behavior of that boy would not be tolerated by any one of us. We have 7 total. 2 supervisors in the lunchroom and 5 outside at different stations. Our grades are separated for lunch (only have grades 3, 4 & 5, with a little over 100 kids in each grade). We work very closely with the teachers and administration when there are problems. For example, there is a 3rd grader that has a "3 strikes and you're out" card. There are little baseballs that we can velcro on the card. He is larger than the other kids and super competitive verging on violence. But once we started the card for him, he's been so much better behaved. Other kids get cards where we can grade them on their behavior (Respect, Responsible and Readiness). They work as well. Other children have aides and we have to let the aide know what they did.

Some of the discipline actions we can take are, time outs on the bench, banning them from an activity (soccer, basketball, kickball), talking to the teachers who can send notes home to the parents for us and writing a child up. Write ups can get a kid a writing detention, recess detention, in school suspension or out of school suspension. We have policies in place that fighting gets automatic write-ups.

You should tell you son that he needs to inform the teacher or lunchroom staff immediately when this boy does something. That's the only way the staff can keep on top of the situation.

Good luck and let us know what happens!

You said here exactly what you need to say to the principal...

'Why are you more concerned with "socializing" Joe than with the safety of the rest of the kids? It's been 2 weeks and we mom's feel like 2 weeks has been too long to allow him to run free on the playground and the lunchroom beating up our kids.

It's that simple and do not let the principal give you a form letter or response.

ETA: Where is Joe's mom during these conversations, if everyone must pick up? Do you get the sense that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree or there are mitigating circumstances? Regardless the issue needs to be addressed.

I can promise you that this child is well on his was towards suspension.

I am familiar with our school districts policy on discipline. The first few issues that get them sent to the office is a "stern talking to and calling the parents"...then they try a on-campus solution...then eventually they will suspend "Joe"...then he will be back, and probably then suspend him again after going through all the steps with a few cut out the second time, etc etc,

The teacher is doing the best she can...and I am sure sending Joe to the office every time he lays hands on another student...it just takes a long time to get to the point where they DO something like suspension.

I have subbed in four Kinder classes this year...sense the beginning of school and there was a Joe in each of them...and I called the office and had them removed when they touched another student inappropriately. It takes time for the process to start working...that is the way with bureaucracy.

I know you don't want to hear what "should" be done, but I will tell you that anytime I want to see real action taken from a teacher I send or cc the email to the principal. It always works.

Also, maybe a little peer pressure might work. I know they are pretty young to organize, but if they could all confront Joe as a group when one gets hurt to let him know they won't put up with his garbage any more he may stop.

Yes, my son had a bully in Kindergarten. The child was an absolute nightmare. He physically assaulted several kids before he was moved towards the end of the year. He was verbally abusive to my son and I addressed it with the teacher and the Principal. It finally stopped when the child was moved.

You have worked through the teacher and her hands are probably tied. I would go right to the Principal's office. I disagree with some of the advice here. You ARE entitled to know what is being done to ensure that your child is safe from physical harm. I would insist upon knowing this information.

Photograph all visible injuries.

Talk to principal.

Ask teacher: "specifically what is being done to protect" your son (she CAN and SHOULD answer that specific question).

If nothing changes: leave. Switch kindergarten classes. Your son does not deserve to be traumatized because some school couldn't get its act together to handle a bully.

My son is in kindergarten and is dealing with something similar, although not that extreme.
The school is worthless in "correcting the behavior". And honestly, there is nothing they can do.
I have told my son that the next time this boy hits or pushes him, to push back as hard as he can.
He will never get in trouble with me for defending himself with "violence" in turn.

That's how I was raised...that's how you stop a physical bully....and that's what I'll teach my son. Because it works.
The school can take whatever action they want, but at the end of the day, it's going to be on my son to take care of himself. No one else is there to do it for him. Just like in life.

Okay. Take a breath. He's probably being observed and they're working on getting him a 504 plan or something. He's obviously in need of one.

I'd say the teacher is at fault here. It's her job to manage the kids in her class. That's the point that makes me mad, this teacher is aware and has done nothing...like requesting an aid, or getting an assistant teacher in the room. If she already has an assistant then that person needs to manage this child.

Call the principle, if that doesn't get the issue resolved then call the admin office for the district.

I have not had to deal with anything like this in my child's school. Wow. Did you all go to the principal yet? Do that and I bet things will happen quickly.

I feel like i wrote this post. Only it is my daughter who has been hit, scratched, pinched and bit by another student. This child still is in her class and is an ongoing issue daily with different children. I kind of understand they have to have so many occurrences to be able to figure out what to do with him. But how long do our kids have to suffer daily torment?!?