Mom About to Break...5 Yr Old Absolute Defiance!!! Help!?!

I recommend the book Have a New Kid by Friday, but you probably don't have time to read with everything else. But I did this for my tantrum thrower, set her outside (out back of you have a fenced yard) and lock the door. Mine calmed down relatively quickly and appologized. It only took doing it twice. You may want to warn the neighbors. I know this may sound extreme, or even crazy, but it stopped me from losing it too.

Hi S.- Sounds l;ike your angel is trying to test you. I actually do a discipline training called Discipline: Two Choices. We basically follow three rules:
1. Say what you mean, mean what you say- don't make threats you are unwilling to follow thru on and be sure the battle is worth it. ie: no running in the house...insted if you want to run-go outside. Insted of punishing for the action.
2. Say yes as often as you can! I know this one sounds crazy, but why not make it work for you...example: Can I have this candy? Yes, as soon as you clean your room. The child knows what is expected and what they need to do to get it. Thus-stopping the power struggle-you will never win a power struggle with a child!
3. Give them tow choices-only two...example: Sara you have two choices. You can stop crying or you can go to your room. No, those are your only choices. Which do you choose? no! she screams back? I'm sorry you are the one who can decide...be strong. If she continues to scream take her by the hand and lead her to her room...she screams louder? Sorry you made the choice. Would you like to stop crying so you can stay out in the living room with me?...follow her lead but always go back to her choice and remind her of her choices. It will be a rough week....but in the big picture ONLY a week, right?

It does work. I have been working with children for almost 20 years. Feel free to contact me with any questions...

Good Luck! H.

Consistency will help bring resolution. Here are a couple ideas:
1. validate her wants/needs first. "Yes. I hear you. You want ...." Maybe say it more than once.
2. bring your agenda. "Right now I need you to ..." You don't have to say why, just what you need.
3. offer two choices "Crying/screaming is not a choice. You can ___ with the family, or you can go to your room until you feel better." Then sweetly lead her to her room.
4. Welcome her back when she returns, or even go invite her back because you miss her.

Hang in there. Maybe you can read a book or two while you try these bare essentials. Two of my favorites are Love and Limits by Crary and The Discipline Book- Birth to Ten by Sears (just the last half; the first is about babies)
Good luck,
A.

I'd definitely agree with the counseling idea, you need a pro. Especially with your husband changing things up, good or bad it is stressful, and a counselor may be able to to talk him and her through it, as well as help the whole family with issues unforeseen.

I'm having a similar defiance problem w/our 13 year old. I was in our PX looking for a book I couldn't find, but walked past "Have a New Kid by Friday" by Dr Kevin Leman. I had to go back & check it out. I'm 1/3 of the way into it & while I still don't think it's possible in 5 calendar days, I think his process could work in a week or two. We're at the point where he's expelled if he gets in another fight & I'm willing to try anything! Dr Leman's philosophy basically boils down to this: say it once, turn your back, walk away. Expect to be obeyed, instead of pushing until she does obey. If she doesn't do what she was told, use natural consequences-if she doesn't pick up her toys, take what was out (I make my boys bag them up themselves); if she throws a fit, tell her you need to leave because you can't handle her behavior right now-& walk away. If she follows you, put on some headphones & listen to some music so you can't hear the screaming. Consistancy & calmness are his two biggest things. Keep doing what you're doing, the same way. Being calm lets them know you're in control of the situation-because she's screaming, you don't have to as well. She'll shut up to hear what you're saying if you use a quieter voice. It's all common sense, what he's said as far as I've read, but it's training yourself (myself) to do it that's the hard part.
We've also got some anger books at our house that we've re-read together several times. One is "when Sophie gets angry, really really angry". I'm not sure if it's that one or another, but one of the coping skills was to run as fast as you can, as far as you can (obviously you can't unleash your 5 year old to run wild)-you could send her running around the house & yard. I can't tell you how many times my mom made me run around the house to calm down! Have her run 5 times since she's 5 years old. Have her go to her room, close the door & scream her anger out til it's over, if that's what it takes. If there's so much change in the house, she's probably not sure how to take it & is way beyond confused so she's just being a snot. Sit her down, explain to her that all of the change is really confusing for you & the rest of the family too. Sometimes I can get through to my boys better by telling them how I feel, instead of how I want them to behave.
Good luck!

You have received a lot of advice. While you work toward a solution to this problem, may I suggest that you think about how scary and uncertain life seems for your little one right now. Things are changing around her, Dad is changing, Mom is stressed out. She has only been in this world for 5 short years. Her brain doesn't even come close to understanding what is happening to those around her--and she shouldn't be expected to. I would suggest that she, and you, needs a lot of hugs and quiet time cuddling up on the floor with her Mom. Even in the middle of a tantrum. A sweet silent hug and "I love you" goes a very long way. Pick your battles and step back for a while from needing her to be perfect. You all need a break right now. You are all working hard toward a new life. She is showing outwardly what you are all feeling inside. It is just the only way she nows how to deal with all of the uncomfortable feelings she has inside. Give yourself a break and, while you remain in control, remember to give lots of love and hugs and less punishment.
Take care,
B.

My 4 year-old daughter became very defiant after the birth of my twins. I realized it was her way of vying for attention. But her behaviors were out of control. I too tried time outs and corners but it didn't work as well for us either. What did work was remaining calm and offering her "choices". "If you continue this behavior you will lose your privileges." And then I'd list off tv, computer games, swing time, etc. (things I knew she really valued) and after a few times when she did lose her privileges, she learned there are consequences. I didn't have to struggle; I could keep my calm, and it worked. I'm not sure every approach works for every kid. But I do believe that having consequences and then enforcing those consequences does work. It's not the severity of the consequence but the predictability of the consequence that will change the behavior. (With two babies, it was easier for me to enforce losing privileges than making sure she stayed in the corner or went to time out.) Also, since I knew she was just screaming out for attention (literally!) I did try to give her as much positive mommy time as I could too. Good luck!

Hi S. -

This sounds like classic middle child behavior to me, especially in light our your husband's recent issues and changes in how harsh he disciplines. Look at your daughter's behavior as a sign of stress that needs to be addressed rather than some flaw that needs to be corrected.

A middle kid has to resort to a whole bevy of behaviors in order to be heard and acknowledged. They often feel invisible in the family. The older kids are bigger and better at everything and the younger ones seem to get away with anything. Defiance and anger is a textbook response - not easy to deal with by any means but very normal. It's awfully hard not to notice a screaming tantrum.

I dont know exactly what your husband has been dealing with but encourage him that discipline needs to be reasonable and fair and that harsh is not always best. You are the one who needs to stand up for your kids. If his anger is gets of control, then inform him that it is not acceptable and wont be tolerated especially when it is directed toward the children.

I encourage you all to have a family meeting so that everyone knows what the new rules are and the consequences for breaking the rules so that things are very predictable around your house. Inconsistency is the breeding ground for discontent. I encourage you to make your middle daughter feel like she is very important during this meeting.

You might try a different tack with your daughter when she starts acting out. When she calms down, try getting her to talk about how she is feeling and about the changes going on in your family. Tell her that her behavior is one that a lot of middle kids choose but that it's really hard to deal with and maybe give her some other options to work through her feelings.

I listed some links to articles you might find interesting about middle children.

http://www.lifescript.com/Life/Family/Parenting/Middle-Ch...

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,5547,00.html

Been there, and still there sometimes - full out toddler tantrums!!! I've found there is a particular sibling that throws my 7 yr old into the attitude and it cycles to crazy from there. If I'm good to give POSITIVE love and affection with her at good times on a consistent basis, it helps a lot. She also gets anxious, and I usually don't pick up on it right away, and that leads to a lot of behavior problems. I found VitB12 has helped, and lots of time in the sun. Also, for some reason, the more she plays with friends (whom she NEVER acts this way with), the better she is overall with our family. Good luck! You can also try the school counselor?!?

Since there are a lot of changes she could also be having trouble with transitions. My son has that problem and giving him 5 and 3 min warnings helps alot. We also punish bad behavior with time outs and time in his room alone. We always send him to his room when he's screaming. We tell him if you are going to scream you need to do it in your room. Having them face a wall or corner helps too because the sound reverberates back into their face and they really get a sense of how loud they are. We also put favorite toys in time out and he has to earn them back. We also do positive reinforcement with a reward chart where he can earn dots to go special places or special toys.

Hi S.,
I hate to tell you this but your 5 year old didn't just start giving you problems. She's been at it for a much longer time then you give her credit for you just haven't seen it. She's been getting her way and she's definately the one who's been in charge. It's not too late to redirect her but it will take some serious take charge attitude on your part and a lot of consistency. I would recommend "To Train Up A Child" by Michael and Debi Pearl or any number of their books. But start with Train Up A Child. You can order it online at "No Greater Joy". They are very inexpensive and so well worth the read. I think the Pearls would also have a number of items that might interest you and also tremendously help the rest of your family. Husband included! Blessings to you, L.