My 5 Year Old Daughter Is Wearing Me Down

Is there any opportunity to enroll her in a pre-school program. maybe you 2 need some time apart. And it may benefit her to have interaction with other adults in charge prior to Kindergarten.

I feel like she is going to have a REALLY hard time adjusting to Kindergarten if this continues.

There's a pamphlet that I read & reread when my girls were little. You can find it online at http://www.ntmu.net/lovingcommand.htm.

I really wouldn't recommend the Love and Logic thing with a child who is already totally in control. That's more of a program on how to give her even more choices and giving yourself ways to think of all different reactions to her tirades while re-adjusting your own thinking rather than NIPPING THE DISRESPECT, TANTRUMS AND ACTING OUT. Love and Logic is a good guideline for having a loving logical house in general, but it has no discipline. All my friends who used that program, had very bratty kids.

Time outs: Do not phase spirited kids, and as you have seen they enable tantrums like crazy.

Taking privileges away: Correct, not immediate enough, and in the privileged world our kids live in, losing a few luxuries they didn't earn is a far cry form a serious consequence, since they still have lots of nice things.

The occasional pop on the butt: Does nothing at this age. It would have done wonders if used consistently at age 1, to prevent the terrible twos, and would have continued to work well through the 2's if consistent enough. Ideally she would have phased out of spanking by now and cared about other consequences, but her foundation didn't stick for whatever reason.

So. Here is maximum discipline for a 5 year old gone awry (after a calm explanation of her behavior and warning at first, so she gets it before you follow through. this will cut down on the amount of times you follow through, but you WILL have to follow through, because she won't believe you just telling her.) It needs to be consistent for all things (after a warning) so she understands that NONE of the different behaviors: tantrums, making faces at you, screaming at you, throwing things, telling you no, refusing to eat, going limp, etc etc etc, are allowed. You want ALL this bad behavior to stop NOW. Do not listen to Love and Logic telling you to do all different nice creative things as reactions to each different thing she does. NIGHTMARE results.

First, start by telling her that from now on she will not be allowed to do x, x, x, and x. You will not yell, you will not warn her twice. She will get a serious spanking (this could be as many as 5 hard swats on the butt for 5 years old-I know it sounds harsh, but this has escalated and wasn't prevented), and THEN she will ALSO be removed from any nice activity she is doing (technically a time out, but at least she had a consequence first) and while she is there crying from her spanking (not having her own spastic cry fest for no reason-and if she's "not crying" to show you she "didn't care"-all the better) you will ALSO take _____(insert favorite item) and put it away for a week. ALSO, she must DO something like a difficult chore that she would not normally have to to do. (make a list of chores she can do so when the time comes, you're ready) ALSO she must EARN back the favorite item with a week of good behavior, or she doesnt' get it back.

ALL OF THIS. Every time. For EVERY THING. It didn't have to come to this, but it has. I admit, I have not had to go these lengths with my 3 kids, but I was this diligent within their age ranges from age 1, so now at 3 and 5 my oldest 2 don't ever try this kind of stuff. But this is what I would do in your case.

Let's take tantrums: You see the FIRST SIGN of tantrum. She gets one CALM warning not to begin it. She decides to proceed. Do the above ENTIRE sequence. If she tries to escalate the tantrum after a few minutes of normal crying, she gets another warning, and a repeat.

Next tantrum, same thing. You may not stop a current tantrum in it's tracks, but she will eventually choose not to have them knowing what will definitely happen.

She tries to make a face at you: Warning (first time only), then same thing if she proceeds.

She throws things: Warning (first time only), then same thing if she proceeds.

After she has been warned for something, at 5, you can just enforce with no warning for following times at the same things since she will understand and remember what she's allowed to do. But give the first warning, for the sake of teaching her to follow warnings.

It seems like an out of control overboard consequence, but soon you won't need it anymore. In public, if you can't enforce, she is old enough to have her consequence when you get home. Never skip it. And to be honest, you probably don't need 5 swats if a swat or two stings enough. I've never needed more than one with my kids, but there are some super difficult kids in my family (boys) that occasionally needed a few swats. The key is acting immediately, firmly, and always.

Never get mad, never yell. You are showing that your reaction is because of her choice, not your anger. Always give her a chance to stop the wrong action, and make the right choice. She never should have been allowed to carry on a tantrum that long without intervention. That will make this a very hard habit to break, but it can be done.

You will see her turn around QUICK. And you'll see her growing much happier as her behavior improves and your relationship will blossom. Kudos to you doing it on your own. My husband is always gone and I do this with my 3 and they are all well behaved. It's was a lot of work at first, but now all the fun we have and their self pride made it worth it. You can do it. I've seen difficult kids of divorce turn around when people stepped up and started enforcing firm rules this way. If your fiance is really going to be her dad, he needs to be right there on the same page with you, not the good cop, and this will go twice as fast. As your relationship is now though, I'm not sure you feel comfortable letting him discipline her, that's your call. A united front is always strongest if he is trust worthy.

Don't forget to spend extra loving close time with her in general. Her wanting to have your respect because she loves you is part of the big picture.

If you firm up this much within a happy loving home, and see no improvement, yo can take her to the doctor for evaluation with a clear conscience.

Oh, and for the not eating, one chance to eat, or nothing until next meal. I wouldn't enforce the rest of the discipline for that or force her to eat. But I would enforce good table manners.

Sister. End the battle of wills. Pop her on her little butt and put her in her room for a nap. Take back control of your house. She is testing you and waiting for you to set some limits. Kids crave discipline. It's how they know they are loved. It's how they know they are safe and protected by an adult strong enough to protect them. Still employ all the Love and Logic techniques you want. Be reasonable and explain your reasons for punishing her. Use a lot of positive reinforcement. Set limits and consequences. But seriously, sometimes they just need an attitude adjustment. You'd be surpised how the tush is connected to the "Act Right" in a child.

How about a nice swat on the butt for not listening to Mommy?

You said you work from home....well, depending how much time that is taking sounds to me like she's acting out because she wants attention. I've never worked from home, but I'm sure trying to find a balance between work and time with kids has got to be difficult. It seems to me you need to be coming up with something because this is total attention seeking behavior.

I'm a divorced over-40 mom with a young girl (now 9) with two stepkids in their 20s and I'm a work from home graduate student. It's tough to get work done and keep a child occupied, and parent older kids, and have a relationship!

I'm sure you do everything you can to give your daughter attention, yet this seems like attention-getting behavior. At almost five, she's ready for new things and a lot of time with other children. I agree with another's suggestion about pre-school or other away from home activities with other kids. How long has your fiance been around? Sometimes adding a new person to the mix will bring up behavior issues (happened in the extreme with me and my stepdaughter, when she was only one!, and lasted for a year)

If nothing else works, then I would suggest a child counselor. Because you don't want to live with this, or allow it to get worse, or wait until Kindergarten brings new stresses.

I completely understand what you are saying. In fact your story is very similiar to mine. I too work at home, have a 19 year old daughter, a 7 year old daughter (who is like yours) and a 19 month old son. My 7 year old dtr has been diagnosed with ADHD and has been a real challenge for us. Aside from having ADHD she is extremely defiant especially towards me. I am with her the majority of the time so maybe that's why. Unfortunately, I am not able to give her one on one attention at all time due to my work load and having to care for her brother. We currently have her counseling on a weekly basis. We have tried positive reinforcement along with consequences for bad behavior. With some success. It's been a struggle since day one with her. Like your daughter, mine will act like a total spaz to being completely sweet. LIke Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide. I would maybe have her evaluated just to make sure it's nothing neurological. I will tell you this, when my daughter starts to throw a complete fit, I will get up turn around and leave the room. (If I'm home of course) She will sometimes follow me and I will continue to ignore her. Once she realizes she's not getting the reaction that she is looking for, she stops. That's when I will ask her, Okay are you done now? Can we discuss this calmly? Or she will actually just drop it all together and moves onto something else but I will make a point of explaining to her when all is calm why she can't act that way. It's frustrating I know!! Know that you aren't alone. If you ever need to reach out for some support, feel free to pm me. Good luck!

Honestly, I think she is bored out of her brains. I would make every effort to try to enroll her in a daycare program.

Good luck,
L.

You need to think carefully about which battles to pick. Think, "Is this a hill I want to die on?" My son was extremely defiant when little. Hitting or pinching others? Yes, it's important to nip that in the bud. Food battles? Not so important.

You might also look at the book "Try and Make Me," by Ray Levy and Bill O'Hanlon. Dr. Levy is a Dallas psychologist who specializes in defiant kids. I took my son to him and he coached me on dealing with my son as well as working directly with my son. But the book lays out a lot of his techniques.

Dear J., You may want to pick a few less battles. If you fight her on every little thing it makes the big things unnoticeable. When she grows up she'll rebel at you being too strict and unbending. Hang in there! It will get better. Channel all her energy into achieving success in the future. I also agree with the other moms that she is ready for more kid interaction and daycare or pre-k outside the home at least a few days a week. Best wishes and God bless.

Figure out what her currency is...a toy, time with you, and take it away. My nephew did this for a long time until my sister made him throw his FAVORITE toy away and take the garbage bag to the curb and then watch the truck take it way. It stopped the cylce and made him realize who was in charge.
Take charge...Give lots of hugs and kisses when she behaves the way you want her too and ignore the attention getting behaviors she is exhibiting...hang in there mom!

My daughter was doing this too, and I was about to tear my hair out. Then my husband went out of town for two weeks on a work project, and her behavior improved instantly. I realized I was happier, too. I don't know if this is part of your problem, but do the older sisters or your fiance pick on her or give her a hard time over little things or ignore her unless it's to criticize her? If so, she's probably acting out. Once my husband was out of the house and not picking on her about a million little things, such as the way she held her fork (and that's a bit hard for little fingers to do properly all the time!), she was a different child. I've had to re-examine my marriage in light of this, and I've absolutely laid down the law to my husband that he will be a better father to our child or he will lose her. So far, he's been nicer, and my child is thriving with the positive reinforcement.

Good luck to you.

I feel your pain! I have BEEN THERE!! My daughter is now 8 and I also have a 4 year old. My oldest was TOUGH. First off, I agree with the others that you would be well-served to put her in a Mother's Day Out program or something. At the very least it would give you time to renew and the twice a week programs are relatively inexpensive. But I also think being around other kids would help quite a bit. My other bit of advice is to start giving her choices in everything. I learned the more times I could give choices, the more in control she felt and the less we battled. Now that said, the choices are YOUR choices. Would you like your dinner on the real plate or a paper plate? Would you like milk or juice (or would you like your milk in the pink cup or the blue cup). Would you like to pick up your room by yourself or would you like me to help? You just have to make it second nature and give those kinds of choices in everything (it gets easier the more you do it). When my daughter constantly had the chance to choose, she tended to fight me less. I also learned to pick my battles and prepare her for things when I felt a battle coming on (play for 10 more minutes before we have to clean up, five more minutes before we have to clean up . . . we are having your favorite pb&j for lunch but we are having chicken for dinner tonight and I expect you to eat it, etc). So much is in how you present things :-). Oh, I agree the immediate consequences are the way to go!!! Good luck, you will survive!!!

In addition to reading love and logic you can look into going to a training session. Part of what I admire about the book is how it describes consequences, and how much it is needed from a young age.

Sounds like she is just trying to get your attention and is bored. She is old enough for you to tell her that her actions are not acceptable and that she will not get her way by acting this way.

Try getting out of the house and take her to some free kids things in the area. Reading time at the Library, Play group, Dance Class, a sport, or even a Pre-K program a few days a week.

I have 3 girls. 16, 10, and 6. I know you say you only work an hour at a time and that you give her lots of attention. I'm sure you do, but what this sounds like to me is she is craving friends. I would seriously consider putting her into some type of preschool program. Even half a day will probably do her some good. We started preschool at age 3 for all of mine and I could see the difference in them just after a few weeks. Kids need friends just as much as we do.

Plus with her getting close to kindergarten age, she really needs to develope some social skills with other kids. Otherwise kindergarten is going to be a nightmare. If it take her teacher a year to teach her how to sit still and be in control, then you could be looking at repeating kindergarten when shes 6.

Good luck, I know your a great mom and only want whats best for your child.