My 5 Year Old Has Already Been Labeled “Troublemaker”

Does the program have a half day option? This sounds like too much for him. Could you discreetly observe him in the library? After a comment like that, I would really want to see what is going on.
Also, there is a time and a place for questions (but NEVER interruptions) and when a teacher is giving direction to the class he needs to listen and do what he is told, no questions asked. When the teacher asks if there are any questions, that is his time to talk. Maybe you could do some role playing at home for practice. Play school, and when he follows directions quickly and quietly, praise him like crazy.

I would go spend the day with him for 2-3 days to see how he interacts and then you can see what's going on too.

He does need to learn to understand that in an academic environment where the teacher is responsible for 20-30 kids all at once they simply don't have time to coddle each child by answering 20 "why" questions when instructions are given, he needs to learn to do what he is told when he is told to do it at school unless the instructions are somehow dangerous or harmful, in which case he should seek out another adult of course. Changing schools will not change this fact, he has to learn to stop talking back and do as instructed or he is taking educational time away from the other children. Keep working with the teachers and your son to see if you can find ways to correct his behavior, maybe by applying more positive reinforcement when he does as instructed without back talk etc.

Hi Mama,
Your situation sounds really stressful! I see two main issues: 1) You mentioned that this pre-k program requires a lot of sitting and writing. I don’t think that is an environment that works for most preschoolers. I think pre-k should be mostly about play and socializing. He has his whole life to have to sit in a desk.

2)Although I don’t agree with the school’s extremely structured curriculum, I also recommend that you consider the possibility that your son might be developing some problematic behavior patterns. I wouldn’t just write this off as solely the product of a bad fit with the school. I would also try and determine if he is contributing to the situation by making disrespectful or disruptive choices. If so, I would evaluate what is going on at home. I say all this with the hopes you don’t feel attacked. I would follow up with the librarian to find out what happened. If he was disrespectful, I’d have him go apologize or write her an apology. My sister, a very loving and awesome mom, has difficulty setting limits with my nephew. As a result, he is a handful in the school setting. She keeps chalking it up to the school’s fault and never considers looking at her approach with him. With each passing year his behavior gets worse because she only looks at what the schools are doing wrong. Perhaps go talk to a therapist to get some parenting strategies. You mentioned that none of the consequences you give seem to make a difference. I wish you the best with this!! Blessings!!

I don't think changing schools is going to make a difference.
He's not labeled as a trouble maker - he has something he needs to work on and changing schools isn't working out what the problem is.

There's a difference between asking questions to know a rule or get an answer or asking questions to stall or just to engage a teacher to avoid doing what the class needs to be doing.
Classes have large numbers of kids and it's often like herding cats to keep them on track.
Your son needs to realize that there is a time for asking questions and a time for listening and doing as he is directed without asking questions.

Our son is an only child - and while I hate blaming things on 'well he's an only child' - one real consequence of having 2 parents talking with him all the time is - he never really considered himself to BE a child - he always acted like another adult - and wanted to talk with other adults in the same way - and sometimes thinking the other kids were pretty childish.
In some ways wanting to talk with a teacher all the time was for putting himself above the rest of the class.

What helped was - letting the teacher know that he considered himself to be older than he was - and also we had to tell him that he has a lot to learn and he needs to listen and sometimes just do as he is told to do without talking back.
He needed to know that we support the teacher and he needs to listen to her.
The teacher I think was good in having times when questions and discussion was allowed sometimes - and then directing when discussion time was over and now the whole class needs to do what ever it needs to do next.

It's going to be a work in progress for awhile - but consider that he's not the only one in his class that needs to work on his behavior.
The green/yellow/red system is not there for just one kid but is used on the whole class - and every single one of them gets a red at least once in awhile.

It's ok (and, in fact, I would encourage you) to let the school deal with this without extra negative consequences at home. So I wouldn't do anymore time outs or take things away or any other punishments at home for behavior at school.

Simplify what you say to him. Listen to the teachers. Follow directions. Make good choices.

While it really is very good that he is inquisitive, it is disrespectful for him to always be questioning authority. This is a good time to teach him that. Sometimes it's ok to ask questions, especially if there is time. Other times we need to respect the person in charge and just do what we are told.

I used to think "because I said so" was a lazy reason. As a mom, I've learned that "because I said so" is sometimes the only reason I need. I do want my boys to remain inquisitive, but there I times when I simply don't have time to explain or I've already explained and they are just asking in order to challenge me and not have to do it.

I'm guessing your son's teachers are interpreting his questions as him being disrespectful and challenging their authority.

Let the teachers handle your son at school. They need to be able to do this, and he needs to recognize them as having authority without you backing it up with consequences at home. Keep working with your son on curbing his desire to ask questions when he's told to do something. He doesn't need to know why you have to hurry. He just needs to hurry. Maybe for now say, "I will tell you once we are in the car. For now, I just need you to hurry." Keep repeating that without giving in and answering his question. You could even practice this on a day when you aren't actually in a hurry (just so you are not stressed and can remain calm).

Just like so many other things in life, your son needs to learn that there is a time and a place for questions. The more you are able to teach him this now, the easier it will be for him going forward.

I have read through this about 3 times. Please, paragraphs are your friend and they help decipher the post much easier.

I am a 17 yr substitute in a highly rated public school district. I see a lot going on here.

You have an inquisitive child and that is great but there is a place and time for all the questions. In my classroom of 18 or so children, I cannot focus on 1 child and his/her specific questions. There has to be time for instruction and attention to ALL students. No teacher can put all attention to 1 child for numerous questions and banter. Now during independent work when the teacher is available more for one on one is the place but still... keep in mind there are other children in the class as well. When 1 child keeps up with numerous questions, it disrupts the instruction and the other children.

Our all day kinder program is excellent and not as structured as you describe. Through 2nd grade, we have routine breaks to get up move around and stretch. NO child should be made to sit still for instruction for hours on end. They WILL lose interest and get fidgety.

The pat that bothers me most on this post is that you have a 4 year old in this program. I personally feel a 4 year old should play, have fun and be a kid. I am not saying no preschool or preK but make it fun. I would not have my 4 year old in such a structured program.

You mention that your program is optional and it sounds like you are in the program per your convenience. If that is the case, put him in a Mothers Day Out or Daycare/Preschool where he can continue the social aspect and back off so much structure. He needs to enjoy being a 4 year old!

It is fantastic he is so smart and communicative... he needs play.

I wouldn't worry too much about the labels. Yes, teachers talk and know who to watch out for and students are strategically placed with specific teachers for a reason. That does not mean any kid is a bad kid or labeled poorly.. some children need specifics and we try to place them in groups that best meets the child's needs.

Questions are ok when there is something to question but you've set up your son to think that everything needs his input and no instructions given by a grown up are just to be followed.Very bad habit to get into and something you need to change asap.

When you tell him to hurry up and get dressed and he asks why? The correct answer is 'Because I told you to'. Getting into 20 questions about why isn't something helpful or necessary so stop playing the game and it'll stop.

The problem here is that you have different people telling you the exact same thing and you somehow think that they should all change to accommodate your child instead of letting your child get negative behavior marks. Not going to happen. Maybe you would both benefit from some therapy like getting him into a group that teaches social skills.''

And keeping him home to avoid all this? Just teaching him that he doesn't have to face difficult situations. Mommy will make sure of it. Squash it now because in 14 yrs he'll be quitting college because the professors were mean. 20 yrs from now his boss will be mean and he'll quit. Then his next boss will be mean and that job will go. Nothing will ever be his fault

I agree with Diane.

I have a little gal who visits our house often. She challenges me. "Why can't we do this?" or "Why .... " such and such..

I'll be honest. There are a lot of days I'm not up for having (Hannah) over to our house. It's draining. Although she's a lovely child, my family kind of finds her rude. I find I have to remind myself she's a lovely child. I do feel badly for that - because she's a kid, and I tend to love kids.

Her mom loves that (Hannah) challenges authority. I don't know why an adult would think this is a good thing. My kids were taught not to challenge authority. I mean, I'm all for standing up for yourself, advocating for yourself, and if you feel something is not right, then yes - come tell a parent or teacher - and check it out. Sure.

But a teacher who is teaching a class? No. You don't interrupt, you don't distract, you fall into line - and that's how it is.

We had a chatty kid. He was bored, and kind of is more of an adult than a kid. He's very bright. He also thinks he is kind of above it all. He's my 'trying' child out of all of them. The teachers found him easy because he does well and gets his work done. But socially? He's hard on the head at times. I let the teachers discipline however they felt like it and I backed them up.

Kids found him hard on the head too. Lesson learned. No kids want to be corrected. (Hannah) finds it hard too - she's a bit of a know it all.

I think this is a learning opportunity for you and your son. That's what the first couple of years of school are for. I would not take it personally so much this is room to grow. Tell him he has to follow direction because he's making it hard for the teacher and librarian to teach the other students. They are there to learn also - and they can't if he's always asking questions.

My mom was a kindergarten teacher. She nipped this in the bud every year. She had ways of expressing this to the child in question - and got through to them. Some teachers are really good at this. Parents would thank my mom, every year.

I'm not sure they communicated this very well to you - maybe in front of your child was not the best way (I don't think). I think you need to know this about your child, and work with him.

I have a shy kid, an overconfident kid, a joker kid, etc .... we all have to work on stuff with our kids - so don't get discouraged. Just keep helping him to be more considerate at school and it will come :)

You have a very inquisitive child and that's a great thing in many, many ways. However, he's having trouble taking "no" for an answer (from you, from the teachers) and that's just a developmental stage.

I think there is way too much emphasis on academics for where he is developmentally right now. He's having no trouble with content, but he's not socially ready for this level of structure, nor is he quite mature enough to defer his own gratification (wanting immediate answers) for the direction of the adult or the welfare/benefit of the other kids. He doesn't yet see that it's "not all about him" or sense that others don't have the same questions. He's also apparently having problems with some of the kids and either is on the receiving end of some negative behaviors (not atypical at this age, but still unpleasant) and he's feeling rejection by playmates even if the teachers don't see it or assess it the same way. So, he's a fish out of water.

I would absolutely ask the school psychologist to sit in on the class a few times to observe him - that can give you great info and insight from someone who is only there to watch one kid, while the teacher has to deal with everyone. Ask the counselor to also attend library time and watch that interaction.

Pushing him to get through this to be ready for kindergarten is putting pressure on him, and perhaps on the teachers. I think the librarian was WAY out of line to discuss this in those words with your child present, by the way. But that doesn't mean your child is really at the readiness stage for kindergarten.

I think you have to work at home - and I'd ask the most effective teacher what language she uses to defer questions - and implement some of those at home. Yes, I know it takes longer to argue with him about why you can't answer his questions, but it's actually reinforcing the "I want the answer now" habit you want to break. What needs to happen is he needs a choice: "Do you want the questions answered, or do you want to go for ice cream? You can't have both, so choose." "Do you want your questions answered, or do you want to ride bikes? There's only time for one thing. So choose." He needs to miss out on something. From there, you "graduate" to you not having time to do X or Y because you had to spend time answering questions. That means that his favorite snacks weren't picked up at the grocery store (because there wasn't time) or something else didn't get done. It's also okay for him to see that someone else is unhappy or frustrated because of his demands. So then it's Mom's turn the next time, and there are no Q&A sessions at all - he goes to the store in his pajamas (because he refused to get dressed) or whatever. You're giving in to him because it's easier for you than not answering (which I totally understand is more time consuming). He needs to lose your attention and have you walk away. Maybe you need a code word/phrase like "This is not the time."

As always, I suggest talking to a good children's librarian about recommended books, not necessarily about school but about what happens when everyone goes their own way without thinking of how we, as a group, get from here to there. Anything visual, like a train whose cars go in different directions or a caterpillar whose segments don't cooperate, or perhaps a bunch of people with bricks who all build their own tiny building without cooperating as a group to build something larger that suits everyone's needs (something with only room for one person vs. something that holds everyone). Anything along those lines that helps him see the bigger picture, that a group cannot function if everyone in it does their own thing.

It's also possible that your child will not be ready for kindergarten in September. There's absolutely no shame in that! He is developing just fine in some areas, and is still waiting for skills to emerge in other areas. Stop pushing the area where he's accomplished, and strengthen him in the areas where he is not.

I don't entirely agree with changing schools - that teaches him that 1) he's a failure and 2) anytime things don't go his way, he doesn't have to learn and adjust, he can just leave. That's not how life works. But perhaps a play-based program is more what he needs now. Discuss with the counselor when you have more data.

Sounds to me like you need to work with him at home on not always having to have a reason. Yes teachers are going to think that he is disrespectful and disruptive if he always asks way and wont move on till he knows. Kids don't always need to know why. When my kids ask me still if I don't want to go into detail I or don't feel they need them I will say because I said so. I don't owe them an explanation I am the parent and the authority figure. Teach him now because as he get's older it will get worse and get him in more and more trouble.

the huge glaring obvious reason is buried in the middle of the post. no 4 year old should be subjected to an 'extremely structured' all day curriculum. he's barely out of toddlerhood. he wants to play. he SHOULD be playing.

yes, there are other factors here. it's perfectly possible to foster curiosity and information gathering in small children without letting them wield their questions as weapons. firm no-nonsense boundaries about when you can indulge in 100 Questions and when he has to zip it and get his butt in gear are not the school's problem, they're yours.

fix that.

but as for piling on punishments, i agree with you that it's too much for this very, very young human to spend all of his waking hours in purgatory. let the school discipline his behavior there, and you handle the parenting stuff on your end.

but i myself would not have a child in this stifling atmosphere. can you find him a montessori school? i'm betting dimes to donuts that if your busy bright inquisitive little boy were allowed to get a wiggle on he'd be happier AND he'd learn well and joyfully.
khairete
S.

Is there a different program that you could switch him to now? This doesn't sound like a good fit for him.

ETA: A bit more detail as I think about this more. If he were a 2nd grader, then my response would be different. By 2nd grade, kids should understand how school works and start to be able to channel their impulses. But he's in preK. PreK! That is still so little. He needs a less structured environment. Over the next 5 months between now and when he starts K, yes, you can absolutely starting helping him channel his inquisitive nature - there are times when it's ok to ask questions, and there are times when questions have to wait. You start to teach that interrupting is never ok. You teach that loudly correcting other people is not polite and they don't like it. He will need to learn that sometimes he needs to wait - the world does not revolve around him. Let me be clear that I'm not signaling him out as a bad kid. These are totally normal things that every kid needs to learn sometime between ages of 3 and 7. And so you need to be intentional about teaching him these life lessons over the next few months (and the next few years most likely) so that he can be successful in elementary school - socially and academically. But I disagree with your school's current approach of expecting preK kids have the maturity of 2nd-3rd graders.

Ugh. Your poor guy - he is only in preschool! It sounds to me like he needs a play-based preschool right now with tons of playground time, running around, active time, flexibility, etc. A child this age matures and changes so much in a year or two...they are so different and able to handle instructions/rules much better. I personally think that at preschool age it should simply be fun and positive for kids - after all you don't want them disliking school before they even start. Can you look around for a totally different preschool near you? One that understands child development a little better. For sure he needs a different teacher. His teacher last year sounds like the perfect fit for a kid like him. I have found that every year your child's entire school experience has a LOT to do with what teacher they get and the personality of that teacher. Added - I see you only have 2.5 months left. Argh. I guess you have to keep him where he is for such a short period of time. I would be concerned though that this year is making him dislike school.

talk to the principal or school counselor. have them observe your child and see what is triggering the behaviors that are getting the bad marks. these is a cause to all this and that should be the first step in figuring out how to correct it. this is not a teachers fault, its not the childs fault, it needs to be investigated.

your child needs to know when its ok to question adults, and when to just do it. you need to start that at home. and he needs to understand its not ok to question directions at school unless he needs help understand what (not why) to do.

diet can play a roll in behavior. keep a food journal to see if there is a connection between whats eaten and when the behavior is worse than normal. (every time my second grader gets sugar he turns into a nut with an inability to control himself. for my nephew its red dyes. he cannot concentrate on anything if he has eaten red dyes)

and finally no pre-k class should be all paperwork all the time!!! the kindergarten teacher my children have(had) is amazing. i have mommy helped in her class every week for both my kids. she has them do a sitdown activity, then a computer one then a get up and move activity. she still has a play kitchen in the classroom and kids are given times to just play. she does recesses 3x a day. so hearing that your kindergarten class will be all sitdown worktime is disappointing. and it would be for that reason i would consider a different school.

i would not give any additional punishments at home. but rather praise the green behaviors. start with rewarding a green day, then a couple green days gets a fun thing. then a whole week gets an ice cream outing with mom. but use this with caution or you will start the "i have to get something for doing what i am supposed to" thoughts and you will have to break that habit.

Kids should ask questions, but there is a respectful way and a limit to it. Just because he is 'analytical' does not mean he is not being rude and disrespectful. You see him in a different light, you cannot expect everyone else to accommodate and respond how you would to your child. You have one the one child - teachers have 10-20. He has to learn different approaches. It seems you may have been coddling him and now he expects that of everyone else. It is hard for a boy to interact with women that don't treat him the way his mother does. I am a teacher - I see it every single day.

I think that you are blinded a bit by the love for your child...every Mom is. It's ok to ask some questions. but sometimes your child is going to need to get into gear and do what he is supposed to do. A teacher does not have time to answer 5 questions from him every time she tells the class to get it line, sit down at circle time or open their books. That is not reasonable to expect. You need to work with him at home to learn this skillset. If you coddle him at home and allow him to run the show, this will be what he expects to do at school.

Every mom has frantic mornings especially when their kids are that age. Lay out your expectations of him. I work full time and have to be out the door with kids by a very early time. My kids know this. When they were young, we would have cranky mornings. If there was truly a problem, I would stop and address it. If they were just being obstinate, then no...they were not going to make us late.

I do believe that the librarian's comment was out of line and I would probably mention it to the Principal. That being said, really look at that comment and take it to heart. Why does she feel that way about your child? I don't think changing schools is really the answer. If your son's behavior stays the same way, you will encounter some level of this at any school. School is a structured environment and there are behavior expectations.