Need Help with 7 Year Olds Behavior and Husbands

I read recently that normal behavior at 7 years old would be considered pathological in an adult. Look for a book series that talks about normal psych. of children at each age, 1-14.

I would try taking her to a counselor and getting to the root of the problem. She acting out to get attention.

I am a teacher of second graders. In my class we call hurting each other's feelings "wrinkling others." Let me explain... On the first day of school I gather the students around in a circle and show them a pretend picture of a boy and a girl. I tell them that they are going to do something that I don't usually allow... they will say unkind words to the pictures. As we go around the circle the children say something mean and it is very uncomfortable in the room. Students don't know wether they should laugh or feel bad. As each child says a mean thing, I wrinkle the picture just a bit. Until by the time I get to the last child each picture is nothing but a crumpled up ball of paper. Then we talk about how bad the children must feel to have all those mean things said to them. I ask them what we should do to make them feel better. They always suggest saying sorry. So then each child takes turn saying sorry. As each child says sorry, I unwrinkle the paper just a bit. I get a bit dramatic toward the last child by trying desperately to flatten the pictures out like they had been before. Then we have a discussion about how every time you say something mean or unkind to others, it wrinkles them. Even if you say sorry, that wrinkle never truly goes away and stays with that person forever. We talk about what an enormous responsibility it is to be sure that people don't get wrinkled and that we don't want to be responsible for changing who that person is in a negative way. This really hits home with my students. It may help with your daughter. Give it a try if you like!

have you heard of the 7 and 9 year old change? unfortunately no one told me about this change, but with a 7 and 9 year old now it all makes sense. at 7 they are becoming more hyper aware of how they affect their surroundings by the things they do like lying, manipulating, seeking boundaries and seeing what they can and cannot get away with....the 9 year old change is similar but comes with the attitude and the hormone surges where they are hyper emotional, angry and somewhat nasty. But what I have learned from this, after putting them in counceling thinking they had emotional problems, is that it is totally normal for girls their age...which doesn't make is any easier for the parents - as you sit and say what do you mean, i know my kids are different they are like these little monsters...there has to be something wrong...but that is not the reality.

what it is takes is hard lined consequences which i know you have tried, but what that means is not giving in at all and not giving the negative behavior ANY attention. because believe it or not when they are being repremanded they are in the power position even though it is in a negative way. the counselor told me that what you do is very simply when they react, throw a tantrum, lying, you put her in her room and give it NO attention. if she chooses to scream for hours or be in there and have a tantrum then you just leave it alone - you have no emotion tied to it at all...and then you try your hardest to put that smile on your face and have a great time with you other kids. what she will learn is that she doesn't need to act that way to get attention and in fact if she does act that way it will not get that response that she is used to getting...getting you fired up and making a toxic environment for you and your family.

the key to this is for you and your husband to get on the same page, which is the most difficult task. TALK and speak from the heart...not you aren't doing this, you should be doing that...but maybe this is what I do, what do you think we should do...a real conversation about parenting and what works for both of you and come to a compromise that is consistant!

consistancy is the key...give her an inch and they will take a mile. the hardest we have found is when we are out and about and it happens...same thing consistancy. we have had one parent take them home while the other gets to enjoy the day. the more consistent you are now and the bigger the boundaries you draw now, it will help in the long run or so i hear from moms with teenagers.

after the moment of complete breakdown you can have a conversation about how she was feeling and why...but not in the midst of the chaos...

it has been working with us...but i would LOVE to keep this conversation going...who knows....parenting is such a guessing game sometimes

good luck
j

Many issues can lead a child to act out. Picture this, this is your child's life: (1) your family moved = new school and social "problems" for your child & issues of "acceptance" by other kids and attitudes (2) Hubby's loss of job=stress for him=stress handling kids (3) financial changes = changes in family habits & lifestyle (4) Hubby's "intimidation" style of parenting= not good and damaging for a child (5) Your 1st born girl having adjustment problems to her siblings = behavioral problems and emotional problems (6) Lack of understanding and/or communication from parents= lack of positive role modeling and emotional support for child = behavior problems & stress for a child. This is your child's world through her eyes.

Remember, a CHILD does not have "coping" skills unless they are given the tools and guidance to overcome the things which are causing them to feel frustrated. Little children can often suffer from "stress" much as adults do. Only difference is, they can't express it in a proper way that we see fit. Your Hubby using intimidation is NOT going to help...it will only cause your daughter to "shut-down" and spiral into more of a problem. You NEED to help her NOW... before yes, it gets worse and you "lose" touch with your daughter and she becomes harder and harder to "reach." You need to gain back your loving, "happy" child. She obviously is NOT happy... and has not been for a while. Parents also have to "earn" this... as they need to work at it and make sure their child has a safe place to fall. Parents need to be that safe place to fall, for their child.

I would get your girl some counseling... it is obvious she is "crying out" and reaching out for help... as this is reflected in her "problem" behavior... these are mere symptoms that she is lacking some kind of love/comfort/etc. Some kids act "tough" when in actuality they are actually feeling scared and confused and insecure inside. Also really look into if she is getting "picked on" by the other kids at her new school... what is the atmosphere there? Have you talked with the school to see how she's adjusting? Why has Gwen "suddenly" become a "bully?" (maybe she's modeling the behavior at home from her "intimidating" Dad?)

In any event, BOTH you and your Hubby need to be on the same page about this. You have to be a "team" about it. Your daughter is suffering. There needs to be consistency in her life... among other things. She needs a parent she can really talk to/spend quality time with... and just to express herself and be vulnerable without fear of rejection or retaliation or intimidation. She is ONLY 7 years old and already having these kinds of issues. I think an outside resource (ie: a counselor) for her and perhaps the family, can really help. Gwen seems to have spiraled out of control... and it's obvious she can't normalize herself by herself.

I don't know what sort of communication you have with your Hubby... but he is the Parent and an "adult." You need to tell him that he is behaving like a child... and it is damaging your daughter. No parent should mock or name-call or insult or intimidate their child. He has to be a "role model." Perhaps he needs anger management as well. Your Husbands negative behavior can rock the whole household and further alienate your daughter, although it seems it has already. But I'm sure it's only one facet in your daughter's overall behavioral problems.

Remember, a child is a child only once... but the problems upon them can last their whole life. Is your girl allowed to be a child, or does she have to "be" the big sister and turn into a "little adult" to help with her siblings? The hope being, that she does not resent her siblings in the long run... although, it seems she may already resent things in her life or at least have conflict with it. Your girl is only 7... such a young child still and a tender age... she shouldn't have to battle everything in her life like this.
Big hugs to you and I hope you find a lot of comfort and suggestions here.
~Susan
www.cafepress.com/littlegoogoo

Hi,

It sounds like your daughter has a lot going on inside and that you might really benefit from seeking professional help. I would start with you and your husband seeing a child psychologist to try to get some perspective. It might help your husband to understand that his bullying is probably exasperating the problem rather than helping it, if he hears it from someone other than you.

I would also take your daughter out for a girl's day - to whatever your budget will allow - you can have lunch, get a mani-pedi, catch a movie. If money is really tight, you can pack a picnic lunch and scrapbook in the park or something else she enjoys and see if you can't get her to open up about what's really bothering her.

She should probably also see someone herself but I think it's important for you and your husband to do what you can to be helpful to her.

Good luck!

K.
mommywood.com

http://www.awareparenting.com/articles.htm There are 2 great articles there "Why Children Misbehave" (answer # 1 - to fill a legitimate need: love and closeness) and "Twenty Alternatives to Punishments." I have a 7.5 yr old boy and a 3.5 yr old girl. I went through HELL with him when she was a born for about a year. The preschool director said that most misbehavior is due to unmet needs. So instead of focusing on "punishment" I focused to on filling his needs. He basically missed me. (One preschool teacher suggested going out with each child alone once a month. Obviously my 3.5 yr old gets plenty of alone time with me, but he doesn't. I started doing that and he LOVES it. He was such a joy to be around. I'm telling you, my son was a NIGHTMARE with me and only me. I was grateful he was great with friends, at school, etc... but he really changed for the better with me and his little sister once he got more love from me.) It took awhile, but the change was tremendous. I know you have your hands full with two little ones, but make an effort to be with her and UNDERSTAND and relate to her. Maybe once she has more positive interactions with you, she will be more pleasant to be around and less likely to get your husband going (he needs parenting classes.) But first step is to focus on her needs for closeness and TLC from you. (If all you do is focus on punishment, that's a huge mistake. It will make her see you more of an enemy instead of someone loving to be good for.) My son actually HELPS me with my 3.5 yr old (when she is having a meltdown) and he is proud of himself when he does it. Children CAN and do cooperate (never thought I'd see it) but they also need a lot of love. Listen to the words coming out of your mouth (and your DH) and imagine how that makes her feel. I didn't realize that me barking orders every morning ("hurry up! We're late! Put your shoes on! Let's GO! Eat your food!) hardly made him feel loved and appreciated. WHO wants to start that way.... so I changed my focus, made myself get ready earlier and just STOPPED barking orders and just said things in a nicer, firmer way. Much better result. She (and the whole family) has experienced a LOT of changes... be compassionate with her and you'll see a difference. But it won't happen over night. Please post an update.

Hi!
As you stated, your daughter's behavior recently is not how she has been before this last year. I know it's hard to see your life as well as one on the outside, but clearly your daughter is affected by the enormous changes over the last year. She is very young, so does not have the mental ability to process and handle these as well as someone older.

Lying at this age is normal. I can't remember which, but either Oprah or Dr. Phil recently had a show on children lying and it is very common with children so don't worry. Most important, don't take it personally or let your child see you are upset. Super nanny also addresses this. You need to follow your instinct in situations in which you believe your child is not being truthful and be consistent regarding consequences. Write the offense, such as lying, and the consequence on paper if necessary so everyone understands the rules, which should reduce/eliminate running to the other parent. If you remain calm, your child has no leverage. Her behaviors at school demonstrate she is trying to control her world, anything, because she has no control over moving, new baby, dad losing his job, and the stress at home.

Your family has undergone enormous change which affects your daughter and she is acting out. Moving is a huge stress for children. Your husband losing his job must be creating enormous stress which children can feel, even if you believe you don't talk to her about it. Kids know when there is stress in the household and they take on the stress of their parents. As much as possible, see your daughter as a reflection of what is going on in the household and taking on the stress of her parents. Even a new sibling was not her choice, yet a major and permanent change in her life. My family went through much of what you are going through, my daughter was 9 when we had a 3 child (they've always been close, but it is a huge change.) We moved a lot, including across country when she was 7. My husband was similar to your's with the impatience and lack of understanding so he created a lot of stress in the home, especially when he was personally having a hard time.

With a fresh perspective on the cause of your daughter's behavior, the situation will get better. It is not her fault, her family dynamics is creating this. Counseling can do wonders for a child in allowing them to express their feelings and learn useful tools in coping with life's stress. I would also suggest you talk with a counselor because these are affecting you, you're under a lot of stress and this affects your daughter. Most communities have free or low cost counseling. In addition, there are many great books at the library and the school counselor can make recommendations.

I hope this helps!

Hi T.,
Unfortunately it sounds to me like your daughter's behavior is an absolute result of being "bullied" and called names by her Daddy. It is my experience that when a child is acting out these kind of behaviors at school or away from the influence of the offending parent, it is because they feel powerless in the supposed "Safe Place",aka Home. It is of utmost importance that your husband understand the relevancy of his part in this, because without that, you and your daughter have a long painful road ahead. There are many great books out there, that even if he refuse to read them, you might read them and through your influence he will understand and learn a new, actually productive way to interact with Gwen. Things will turn around for you! It is truly just a matter of finding the right remedy for your family. If you try something and it doesn't work, try something else. I am a mother of 8, 5 daughters ages 22,21,19,17,15 and 1 son, age 13 and then 2 step-sons ages 16 and 14. I am still very close with my adult daughters and have very good relationships with all of the younger ones, and I can tell you that it has been by realizing that all children are not created equal and that different things work drastically different for different children, even with the same mom and dad. Keep trying different approaches to the problem until you find something that seems to work. Be flexible, but firm. Good luck!
Julie

Hi T.,
Sorry to hear you are having such a tough year! I am a mother of 4, ages ranging from 12-17, divorced and my teeange daughter whom I love beyond all reason, is a older version of your daughter. It got so bad we did some counseling together and I learned a few things that have really improved my parenting and my sanity.

Couple things you need to keep in mind. First of all this is going to be a fairly long process as she has gotten her way for a while now and will constantly test (they do any how until they move out and become people again).

You and your husband need to agree upon a few basic ground rules, no more than 3-5 to begin with and agree upon what your expectation is and what the consequences will be for your daughter if she decides to push. Consistency and clearly defined goals and expectations are the key. If homework is an issue maybe the rule is that all homework be done by 6 pm and set on the table so you can check to make sure all is complete, just an example. You must also monitor her progress and follow up. If she doesn't follow the rule then an immediate consequence happens. "Because your homework was not complete, you lose tv privelages tonight. You may have another chance tomorrow. Remember our rule is homework done by 6pm and on the table for me to check." If she gets it done early then give her lots of praise and tell her how proud of her you are.

Most importantly NEVER get into an argument with her or lose your temper, she will win when that happens. If she starts to give you reasons as to why something did happen you respond with something like that "Regardless, our rule is __________. or That may be, our rule is ______" keep going back to the rule, when you don't engage her, she will get the idea. Lastly, I learned that lying isn't about you or your husband, it't not personal. it's an effort to not get into trouble, period. So just tell her she has lost your trust when she lies and will have to earn it back. That means more monitoring on your part.

Keep your rules simple in the beginning and manageable for you. You might also try as a reward some mommy and me time for her because right now she is getting negative attention which is better in her mind than no attention.

Hope some of this helps. Life is much easier now than it used to be but still no walk in the park some days!

Best Wishes
T.

Hey T.,
You certainly have your hands full! Dr. James Dobson has written several invaluable books on child rearing and the one that I suggest you start with is titled, "The strong willed child". On the cover in the back will list some others to read after that. If you can get your husband to read them too, or get them on CD, that would be great.
God bless you as you work with your child,
V. V

I think from what you are describing, your 7 year old is desperate for attention from you. It doesn't matter whether negative or positive. I think that if you could spend some 1 on 1 time several times a week with your daughter that things might get better. As far as your husband's behavior, you really can't change that. You can talk with him in private and let him know that it is not appropriate to get angry, yell, etc. in front of the children and that you won't tolerate this. Maybe get some family counseling focusing on parenting and communication among family members to help your family on a short term basis. Good luck.

You've probably gotten amazing advice about this, but let me put my 2 cents in, from a little similar type experiences. first off, you have to realize your husband is depressed. you're depressed from having to deal with all the changes and kids tend to show their depression and loss/adjustment stuff through being, what we see as difficult. she's feeling your family's struggles, and, as a little girl, doesn't know what to do with the feelings. i'd honestly say, she'd probably really enjoy therapy for a short while. it gives her lots of attention, by herself, with no babies or little sisters. then, i'd get together with hubby and write down some real rules and guidelines for both of you. compromise, argue, but figure out consequences/rewards for behaviors. and figure out what you each expect first of the kids, and honestly, with each other. gwen will feel your tension more than anyone. that helped with my family. we didn't have as much adjustment and change, but we dealt with some of the same things. my son is about the same age and is almost completely back on his feet!!! good luck and if you want any more advice (which i'm sure you're sick of by this point), write to me and I'd be glad to elaborate on a few other things we did!! oh...put her to bed earlier too!!! that made a big difference for 2 reasons - kids feel better with more sleep and you can relax without the tension of dealing with her for a little longer!!! : )

This is a wonderful book:
"How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk (How to Help Your Child)" by Adele Faber (Author), Elaine Mazlish (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Talk-Kids-Will-Listen-Child/dp/1853...

And this is one I am getting ready to read. 7 years may be on the young end of the subject but it sounds relevant for your dd's school situation.
"Queen Bees and Wannabes: Helping Your Daughter Survive Cliques, Gossip, Boyfriends, and Other Realities of Adolescence" (Paperback) by Rosalind Wiseman (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Queen-Bees-Wannabes-Boyfriends-Adol...

Good luck!

Hi T.;

The only thing I can suggest you is try to go to family counseling. If your husband does not have a patient of handling children, he needed a parenting skills because your children will suffer and they self esteem will be lower because of the environment at home. The reason why we have so many problems with children now a days in america is because of the following issues are lack of parental skills,parents does know how to handle different stages of children and age,one parent is not good enough to raised children,remember two parents are better than one parent getting involve with children. Children needed to be busy with their favorite curricular activites. Or else, parents should guide the children what's best for them and have them enrol with other activities. Boy Scout and Girl Scout are excellent group for children. I have my children involved with this group, besides they're in Band Group in school,soccer,dance,theater. I also invested to them to have a private lesson of piano,clarinet,alto saxophone,trombone lesson. Art lesson,swimming,surfing,anything that will help your girls busy and doing something that they enjoyed doing it. Your husband needed to learn to listen to you regarding how to raised girls. Remembered you're both the parents and you supposed to be in control of your daughter's and not her. If she has a problem now, it is best to started her counseling before it gets worse and lose a friend. Good luck.

A.

Hi T.,
I'm sure a million people are going to respond to your problem. And they will all probably tell you the same thing...
You have to do something about your husband!!
He needs to change his ways!!!!
Something drastic needs to be done. You need to sit his butt down and demand that he makes changes. You can't go on living life this way. I hate to say it, but your little ones will fall into this behavior too. They do what big sibilings do. Repeat and copy everything!
How are your punishments with the 7 year old? Do you time out? Take away her toys?
My sister-in-law has a problem with her 3 year old (I know there is no comparison)
I take care of her a few days a month, she talks back and tells me "no" when she doesn't want to so something...It's not fun disipling her.
I can't even imagine what you are going through.
Maybe she needs some one on one time with her dad doing something special. Even with you too. Maybe she feels left out of the family because you are always taking care of the younger kids. I definitly think she needs some time alone with her dad....often. The school thing sounds like she is insecure and needs whatever attention she can get.
It does sound like the begin of a major problem when she is even older if you don't nip this in the bud.
I wish I had more info for you. I hope other poeple have even more advise for you. Again...it all starts with changing your husbands behavior. Get him to understand how important his role is in making your daughter a better person. It starts in the home.
Good luck to you.

The problem is not with your daughter. She is a symptom of your husband's behavior. If he will not change his behavior, your daughter's behavior will not change.

CALL SUPERNANNY!! No just kidding. To make things work, you and your husband have to be on the same page, but I think you already know that. Would he be willing to go with you and your daughter to a family therapist? I know people who have done that and it really helped. The yelling has to stop - that makes everything worse. For your daughter, do you take away privileges? That's one punishment I give my kids - no treats and/or no TV and/or no computer, depending on how bad they have been. It definitely helps because they love all those things, and when they go without, they are pretty good for a long stretch after they get punished. I wish you the best of luck. Keep trying and don't give up!

Hi,
I sense that your girl is hurt many times over and is
feeling nonclosure in a lot of areas.
As you must know, children are big on pleasing the parents
initially even if you never noticed. They love them and admire them.
Criticism and displeasure from parents weighs heavy as they
look to you for guidance and definition about themselves.
They will justify displeasure in them as their fault in
the end as, respectfullness to the parents at some point.
When that doesn't make sense they will see parents as bad.

Raging from the parents may be a venting of hot energy but
for the children it is a experience that they draw a lot
of information from because they are so open to receive
everything for future life.

I have said a handful.
Becky

This is a hard lesson to learn, but how she is "handling" issues at school is taught to her by how her dad "handles" her at home. I just recently had to learn this very hard lesson. She needs to have firm and set consequences for whatever misbehavior it is. No more yelling, no more spankings. They make things worse. She makes a choice and she receives a consequence. That can be bad or good. And don't relent. If you say it, mean it. Example: "If you do not stop, you will go to bed early." Don't give in no matter if she is an angel for the rest of the day. You say, "You were great, I'm proud of you, but you chose to do ____, so you'll still need to go to bed early." PRAISE is key to children. Make sure you are giving it whenever they do something well. A simple high five or a hug goes A LONG WAY in my children's lives.

This sounds funny, but Mrs. Cleaver's way of talking sweetly, teaching them moral lessons, and sticking to the punishment set is really the way. Even when doling out consequences and seeing them through. Good luck!

I'm no expert, but just from her behavior I think you are right to asume it started with the move. She may have a few ideas herself thinking that by causing this behavior you'll move back to where she liked it. The best thing to do at this point is to ask her. Help her to communicate with you as to what the source of the problem is. Until you figure out the problem you can't solve it. The next step is consistancy. Unfortunatly to get to consistancy you have to find the one thing that works the best (discaplane wise) and then become consistant about that. I found with my son (and I even let him pick some of the punishments) that time out in his bedroom for as many minutes as he is old worked quite well. Of course if he opened the door or tried talking to me to get attention the time had to start over. I also informed him before shutting the door that if he made a mess, (throwing things or dumping them on the floor) he wouldn't be able to do anything until he cleaned up the mess. One thing we did was sit down and make a list of rules together that he had to follow, then I gave him three consequinces to choose from for each rule he broke. After we where finished, I typed it up and posted it where we could both see it and that way everyone new the rules. For the situation with you daughter pitting you and your husband against each other. When a situation occurs say, "I'm not sure about that let's both go talk to your father." That way she won't be able to go between you. Also remind her nothing is final until it is discussed between all of you not around you. Most negative behavior is just another way of getting atention. Let her know that if she wants attention from you she needs to seek it positively. For instance if she is throwing a tantrum look at her and say, "That's not how to get attention." Then walk away. But you need to also find when she is being positive, I love the how your behaving today, would you like to do...with mom? Also praise her with her sisters let her know what a wonderful sister she is and once you've stopped reacting to the negative and reacting to the positive she'll start doing the positive to get your reactions. I know this is alot, and I know I don't have all the answers, but through the rougher times I just kept telling myself "It took baby steps to get where we are now, it will take baby steps to get back to where I want to be. Good luck, and I hope some of this is helpful to you.

Well, I can't help with your husband, mine gets stressed out & has no patience & a short temper sometimes too (I think it's a man thing), at times like that I tell my son "Daddy needs a time out, let's leave him alone." :)
As far as your daughter, how much 1-on-1 ALONE time does she get with just you or your husband? You mentioned that since your daughter came...
Maybe she just needs more Mommy time, I think all of us could sometimes.

I am going through the same problems with my 7 year old. She is ALWAYS in trouble @ school and home. My husband and I both fear that our 2 year old daughter will start acting this way. My daughter can be just plain RUDE!! She is also becoming more & more of a bully @ school and in addition to lying she will steal something if she wants it. Our biggest fear is that she will do something really bad and end up in a detention center before she even hits her teen years. I love her to death but, she is making me crazy.

Dear T.,
First, your husband may be suffering from depression. Men often react differently to depression than women do. We may be weepy, withdrawn, etc. while men become irritable and angry. Encourage him to seek help. His despondency over the loss of his job and the stress of the move are causing him to
lash out and hurt your child with his words. This type of reaction is just as powerful as physically striking her. She in turn lashes out against others. It's the same old "kick the dog" scenario. He is the man who teaches your daughter about how men treat women, it is VITAL he gets help! In the meantime, for Gwen, help her to work out her own feelings of rage and anxiety by encouraging her to write out her feelings in a journal, paint her feelings, bike ride out her tensions, any creative or appropriate physical outlet that will allow her to release her feelings. Continue to talk with her about how you recognize her feelings are legitimate but her expression is not. Show her how to appropriately express her feelings by modeling it yourself. Share your ideas with her teacher so that Gwen has the whole "team" working to help her with her anger. Once she begins to find more appropriate ways to express herself, friendships will come more easily. You may have to "set up" friendships at first as children may be wary of making her their friend at first. Once they see she is kind, patient, and fun, the rest is easy. Good luck and God bless you all!

If it happens at school then let the school place her on the line after lunch and thats where she will sit, while she watches the other kids play, when she is allow to resume to back playing have the school yard teacher give her stickers for noticing how nice she is playing, I bet the other kids don't include her and the other way to gain attention is to be mean. As for Husband, who is more important him or your girls rest of there lifes, name calling oh thats so mature !!
Parents slip here nor there, although , what you put out is what you get back, there is a tv show called nanny 911 go to her site read up on her parenting skills, sounds like your not consistent, good luck

I can totally relate, except my child is a 7-year old boy, who is actually turning 8 tomorrow! He was diagnosed with ADHD at the end of first grade last year, and we got so desperate that we allowed him to be put on medication just during school hours. He, too, had lost his friends prior to his diagnosis, he was becoming mean, lying all the time, hitting, etc. And he is a little guy for his age! Anyway, ADHD is something that generally affects boys, but girls can have it as well. Perhaps it is something you want to just look into. We thought our son had ODD at first, which is oppositional defiant disorder, but I think they heve to be a bit older to be diagnosed with that. At any rate, ODD and ADHD sometimes go hand-in-hand, as does OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and ADHD. I hope this helps. Good luck!

Dear T.,

You said you attend play groups. When my children were younger, we attended Mommy and Me groups where we had discussion sessions where we could talk/share and brainstorm ideas of ways to help your daughter and suggestions of examples you can set for your husband. Other ideas could include reading some books you get at the library... parenting books are a great idea. It sounds like your daughter also needs some tools to help her with her frustration and trying to control/manipulate others. A great parenting author who I loved, was Jane Nelsen and if you could hear her speak, that is even better...she had 7 children of her own and knows so much. But her book Positive discipline has a lot of great ideas and suggestions of ways to approach parenting any type of child. She has also written some other books. I think Parenting A-Z and a book for parenting teens as well. She is just so realistic and positive about the whole experience. I think you might her information very useful.

Best of luck and remember that being consistent is a very important part of parenting. Keep up the hard work, cuz in the end it will payoff for you, your daughter and your family.
Remember that if you say something more than twice, it is nagging....providing logical consequences for any behavior is also another good idea.

Oh and one last idea. For the whining...my youngest tries that and I just don't understand that language...and that seems to work and she gets out of whineville. For example, she says, " Maaaaaammmm, I want_______." Did you say something, I cant understand you...or something like that.

Best of luck,
T.

I would seriously consider cutting back on all extra activities like part-time work (if possible) and hobbies that are time consuming. I would pull her out of school and home school, focusing mainly on her behavior. She sounds like she is definitely traveling down the wrong path already at such a young age. You need to nip it in the bud. A good book is called The Heart of Anger by Lou Priolo. (It is a Christian book). Best of luck!

HI T. I understand your situation my daughter has also done as your daughter is doing now. Even though my daughter has issues she is still in the same catagory as your daughter. We as adults have no idea what kids go through also and they can feel and sense our stresses too, even though we may think they don't see or hear everything but they do. Your fmaily has been through alot moving,new baby, dad loosing his job and all the stress of not knowing how you all were going to make it. I had a mild heart attack last Jan 07 and I tried to keep my kids from knowing all the truth about it because I didn't want to add any more stress to them but it caused some other problems cause my kids were afraid I was going to die so we fixed that problem and are not very open with our kids but then our kids are nwo 18, almost 14 and 11. We have also involved a counselor for our daughter to talk to and they gave me a great idea to use at our home. A sand box , no not a big huge one outside actually this is arubbermaid container tht is about 3 inches tall and about 3 feet long, I can't remember the actual size of my daughters and then we went to yard sales and bought all kinds of toy figures any kind and it don't matter if it is for boys or girls we have warriors, princess, rocks. dinasours and such. What we do when our daughter starts gettign mad or havign one of her fits ew tell her to go play in the sand box and she does and it calms her down. There is no right or wrong way for her to take the toys and place in the sand box she just goes in and plays and decorates the box how ever she wants. It really works turst me isi really helping her alot. the sand we got at Lowes and it is very cheap and if you have a cat make sure the lid is put on it when not in use our kitty thought she had 2 littler boxes, not good at all. Our daughter also has a diary tht she keeps hiden and can write her feelings down and only she and her counselr sees and talks about it unless she feels she wants to share it with us. Try this sand box idea and let your daughter know that there is no right or wrong way to decorate the box and then when she is done she can take it apart or leave it till next time. Now regarding your husband wel lmy daughter and her father do go back and forth, I hd a heart to heart talk with my husband and told him his reactions and actions towards our daughter will affect how she perceives men when she gets older and she is going to remember always being yelled at by her dad and is going to think it is ok when it is not. Infact I told my husband that when he gets upset and starts to get really ticked off go play in the sand box and he has it is not just for the kids let me tell ya it works on us adults too and it keeps things from getting out of hand and things kept unsaid and we all know that when we are mad no matter who we are things get said tht hurt. Also when my daughter is mad at her dad she tells him I am mad right now and I don't want to talk right now and sepereates her self and goes and calms down. So far our house is much calmer and quieter also. Please keep us posted on things.

I believe that the time has come for some outside family counseling. Your husband is no help and needs someone outside of the family, a family counselor,guide him in fathering in a different way.
You sound like a really good mother and don't deserve the worry and harrassment you daughter is giving you,and you have 2 other daughters that i'm sure you don't want following in her footsteps. Kids pick-up on what works to get their way, and some even go father. That needs to be nipped in the bud now.
Your plate is full with all the things that you do for your household and other activities. Your daughter needs help now or she's going to become a pariah in school with no friends and that's going to be very painful for her and you too, having to witness it.

You've gotten some good responses and mine echo a few of them.
People (especially first born, strong children) have a hard time when they can't control their lives. Children are especially vunerable because they can't control anything and your husband loosing his job (for many men his identity) they both feel out of control.
I went through something similar with my son when his dad and I split and then we moved several states away.
I had to spend immense amounts of time with him and allow him to make all of the choices he could. I went to school with him and gave him control over clothes and food and playdates/ sports, etc. She desperately needs friends since you said that ignoring her and restriction has made it worse. She wants attention.
Also give her things to achieve/ succeed at. If it isn't school give her a puzzle or a game or a craft. Something to make her feel good about herself. Michael's has tons of $1.00 crafts. It started with my son getting one every single day that he didn't get into trouble at school, then every three days. Now he gets one for each week without his name on the board.
Do what works and the opposite of what doesn't.
Like many people said-if it doesn't work she may need something professional.
Try something similar with your husband-(men can be big kids sometimes too).
Find times and ways to enjoy her and get her to trust you again and not blame you for turning her life upside down.
Good Luck!

That's a tough one. I almost related to your story until you talked about her bullying. My daughter went the opposite way and is a bully target. We had to move around aLOT for a period of three years because I had a man stalking me and he found us wherever we went. The more we moved the more we became reclusive and none of us seemed to have the ability to make friends anymore. I had a best friend growing up that saved my world from all the cliques..I had her and that's all I needed to survive high school. Well, seeing all of my children's incapability of making friends and not knowing how to fix my children I was heartbroken for those few years. My kids had to watch mom have nervous breakdown after nervous breakdown and preparing for court more than once...the whole situation was highly stressful. Well, about 6 months ago we made a really big move with hopes to get away completely. SO far so good and for the first 5 months my kids wanted nothing to do with other people but just in the last month they are finally, after several years, they are making great friends. I think they needed to feel secure in their environment before they could let anyone in. Now, my kids could have easily went the other way considering the circumstances, they could have lashed out and become bullies, but they became the targets instead, neither option is good. Maybe something about your daughters environment feels shaky to her still and she doesn't know how to express it. Honestly it took me about 2 years to even put the stalking thing and our reclusive lives together. When I figured it out I didn't have what it took to fix it. Her "shaky" environment could be your husbands intimidation technique of parenting. That is not parenting, that is bullying. She does not feel secure, she doesn't like what he is doing and is practicing the same skills on other kids at school that she learns at home.

from my experience, I would say you are doing everything you can. I would expect that your husbands response is at the core of this. You can't change his behavior if he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. Your goal is to find ways to create family unity. I have a strong-willed 7 year old, and when I get demanding with him, he gets passive-aggressive like your daughter does. So it is in my best interest to be one step ahead in order to keep the peace. Yet for you, it is your husband. You know him best, if you think he would be receptive, approach him in a private, mellow time. Don't blame, because him getting defensive will backfire.
With your daughter, try talking with her also when it's just you and her coloring, or when you're hanging out, doing her hair. Like, say, remember the other night when you and dad were shouting at each other? How did it make you feel? What could you have said different.. or something that has her reflecting on her behavior. Give her the language and the road to dialouge. Don't tell her what to do. Prompt her to figure out how her behavior affects those around her, or how the other kids may feel. Find opportunities when you're at the grocery store for example. Say there's someone with a handicap. Ask her, how does she think it would feel to not be able to walk, or maybe to have a crooked leg, or whatever. That is such an important quality for children to develop. 1 out of 10 americans are handicap. My son has seizures and is slow - I don't like 'retarded.' When kids look or laugh, I call them on it, but responsibly. I let it be an opportunity to understand my son is a person with feelings.
I sure drifted in that conversation, huh? Communication and understanding could be the steps your daughter needs to become a positve role model for her little sisters.
good luck.
K.

You certainly have your hands full. My first son was also challenging at this age. I took several parenting classes to try to find the right techniques that would work for him. We were both always firm & consistent parents - he was just an extreme tester. A few things that seemed to help - devoting some time just to him each day, via a walk was good - he could chatterbox on and nothing would distract me from listening to him. Your daughter might like cooking with you. We gave our son a high quality supplement (Body Balance) in hopes that if he was lacking any micronutrients, he'd get them in his system. We cut sugar down to only foods that had less than 5 grams per serving. This helped a lot. Honey and 100% natural maple syrup are okay- it takes longer for the body to break down these longer chains of sugars. We also cut WAY down on simple carbs - no white bread, no white pasta, no white rice. Without the simple carbs and sugar coursing through his system and causing too much energy (often following by over-emotional responses & crying when he crashed from the sugar leaving his system suddenly) his behavior came down to an energy level that I much prefer and also friends at school much prefer. Even he feels better, although he still misses and craves sugar. We've found ice cream (plain, no candies in it) is okay and will also buy treats with Splenda on occassion.
In addition to trying dietary changes, you and your husband have GOT to get on the same page with parenting. As it may be hard to take a parenting class together, perhaps one of you could take a class and then the other take it. At the very least, watch Supernanny together. Her techniques have worked really well in my household. I wish that show had been on when my son was 2! Your daughter will really suffer the consequences if she is parented with intimidation and name calling. Those will be the skills she learns and takes out into the world with her.
And finally, in 3rd grade, I switched schools. My son was not doing well. I didn't like how the school was handling behavior problems and he was told he was "bad" so much that he believed it. Even when his behavior improved, it was not noticed (at school, although it was noticed in cub scouts, church and among our friends) and I felt he couldn't get a fresh start with the teachers or the students. So I talked to him about it, told him I didn't think he was happy at his school and that I wanted to send him to a school where he had recess and could play (instead of being punished every recess) and we switched to a much smaller school. He finally got his fresh start and loved his new school from Day 1. It took about a year for his self-esteem to heal, but he is 12 now and enjoys sports, has friends at school and gets all A's & B's for grades. He's helpful around the house with chores and an all-around nice kid to be around - most of the time! :)
Good luck to you - I know it isn't easy. Remember the days may be long - but the years go fast.
We also have an 8 year old - but my two boys are very different in regards to behavior/personalities. But they get along and play with each other a lot. I'm sure you also want a more peaceful household for your two younger girls.

You should check out the House Fairy. I'm not sure what the exact web address is, but you could also find it through Flylady.net. The House Fairy is a program where the child gets rewarded for cleaning their room, but you could also make it for anything that's a problem. It allows the parents to not have to be the bad guys any more. The kids are trying to impress the House Fairy, so she'll leave them a surprise. You could ask your daughter's teacher to email you, daily or weekly, as to how she behaved in school. Then the House Fairy would know if a reward was appropriate. I wish there had been a House Fairy when my kids were younger! Good luck!

I'm a fifth grade teacher, and had immense problems with a girl this school year who had some of the same behavior problems you describe, except a million times worse, because nobody had cared enough to get her help. Her mom was in total denial. Kudos to you for taking this seriously!
That said, I think you need to look for family counseling. You guys all need some help recognizing what exactly is going wrong and tools and strategies to fix it. I know this will cost money you may not have, but it is so worth it. The sooner you get on this, the better!
Good luck! Be strong for your family!

Pray and try to get her active in a youth group at a church. Sounds like you and your husband should talk to your minister or find one that you can talk to.

It seems your daughter is acting out her powerlessness in regards to her dad with her classmates. She is imitating his behavior. He needs the help -- there are often free parenting classes in the community -- look into them and I hope he'll attend. That is a heavy load of changes for any family and children feel the stress -- love her unconditionally but keep strong on the discipline/giving direction. Best wishes for things to look up.

Put your daughter in counsling, you and your husband in parenting classes,and counsling.

SOunds like she is taking over the whole house. Time to put her in her place. If any of my four children would act like that and believe me we are close with one of them, They would lose everything in their room except for their bed and clothing. And then they would have to earn it back.

Good luck

I sympathise with your plight and feel perhaps you are expecting too much to do all this alone when your husband is so far off the mark. Where can you go to get Parenting help? (best to approach this as a couple so that he gets what to do and starts supporting you rather than making your job harder.) Can the school maybe point you in the right direction for Parenting help - or offer advice about how to deal with these kinds of conflicts. Teachers are trained in all these things (at least, I was) ;-) Your husband needs information and strategies, I'm sorry he's not taking it from you, but once she is in a more stable consistent environment with united Parents dealing with her she will settle down and you will all feel better. GOOD LUCK!

T.,

It sounds like you have several problems. First, you and your husband need to be on the same page about displine. Discuss the "rules and boundries" privately, then both of you must make a commitment to stick to them and back each other up. Do not waiver or your child will continue to be manipulative. Her self esteem will come more from your husband then you, so it is vital as to what and how it is said to her coming from him. Privately tape one of his out bursts, then watch it together in private. Ask him what he sees. How could he improve. You might want to do this first with yourself, then ask his opinion, so he does not feel to attacked. You might want to get Zig Zigalars book how to raise positive kids in a negative world. Also gentaly remind your husband that you 2 are the adults. Adults respond in a calm, this is the situation, here are the consiquences... your choice mannor, while many people revert to a "parenting" style or dictator ship of do this or else... the threat, or because I said so mannor. When this is done, your most likely to get a rebelious child attitude, or a tantrum back. Also make sure your girls have a solid foundation of family and know that family comes first. Your scrap booking can help in this regaurds. Scrap books tell stories. Review your family story books often with them and remind them of the family strenght, or make a new one together only telling positive stories of your family. There is so much more that could be said, or ideas given to you,however this is a good start. Good Luck.

J.

My 7 year old is doing some of the same things. He is lying, not listening, and can be very argumentative and defiant. I think a lot of it can be developmental. They are begining to grow up. But, his attitude is getting him into a lot of trouble. My husband can also be very difficult. He grew up in a household where his father yelled a lot. He does the same with our kids and I repeatedly tell him not to. It is very hard raising children and husbands. Talk to the school psychologist (we did) and see what they think. It will get better...good luck!

Despite all our best efforts at parenting, kids mostly just imitate what they see in us. Her father belittles and bullies and so, until she is old enough to understand that her father's behavior is wrong (and this is very difficult for a child), she will act the same way he does. I would recommend a good bible class, sometimes we need someone besides the parents to help reinforce values www.newlandstcofc.org

I had discipline problems with my oldest although she was a little older and I was recommended the "Total Transformation" prgram. It worked wonders within a few days. You would have to do the program together with your husband so you are disciplining on the same page and she is not manipulating each of you. The program is a little pricey but worth it's cost tenfold. Check out their website thetotaltransformation.com. The have parental support and a monthy newsletter that I still receive. She is most likely just looking for attention. Good luck.

It sounds like a very frustrating situation for you. A move and a job loss can be very stressful for everyone. It sounds like the first problem to address starts with the concerns you have about your husbands parenting skills. Maybe your oldest daughter feels the most weight of how he responds with the children. Hopefully you can go to him first and work on this as a team effort. You need to enlist his help in changing his behavior for the sake of your children. I would highly suggest you see if he is willing to go with you to a counselor to get help. If you belong to a trusted church maybe your clergy might have a referral. If not hopefully another trusted source such as a close friend or relative or someone in the school system could give you a referral. Although it is terribly difficult to address this it is possible by your description that your husband's behaviour is verbally abusive. Both you and your spouse need to get on the same page as far as helping your daughter to improve her behaviour. There are some great parenting classes available that both of you can attend and possibly a good family counselor could refer you to other helpful resources. Don't give up as even very challenging behavior can be helped with the right plan, time, and consistency.

Dear T.,
Children imitate their parents' behavior. She learns to interact with others by watching you both. Use positive reinforcement and compliment her -- EVEN WHEN YOU CAN'T THING OF ANYTHING TO COMPLIMENT. "Thank you for...." "You're such a beautiful, wonderful daughter." etc. Otherwise, she will become exactly what you keep telling her she is, i.e., a liar, a bully, etc. And this will work on your husband too. If you want to change his behavior, "You are such a wonderful father, husband" etc. -- even when he isn't. -D.

Hi T., my name is Dene'. I work at an elementary school and I suggest that you talk to the counsler at school. They are a wonderful source of help and information. As for your husband I don't live with him, I would also suggest that he go and talk with someone other than his buddies and get some help on how to deal with his daugter because if he does not - look at the big picture 10 years down the road. Many men lack parenting skills because it is always the women in most cases that deal with the children. If you love each other and want things to work out for ALL involved then seeking professional help is highly suggested. I have 3 kids of my own 22, 20 and 19, with one grandchild 21 months. Be thankful everyone is healthy and I am praying that you find the results you are looking for. It is a FAMILY - family means (f) father and (m) mother I Love You!

T. - my suggestion is time consuming, but hopefully time in will have good results for the long run. You need to train your eldest, because the two younger will follw her example.
Your 7 year old needs time JUST with Mommy - no sisters, no Daddy - just special, loving time with you. Maybe you could take her to the store, or foor a walk, or to run errands, just some regular, consistent one on one time. The first few times, love her up - don't talk about bad behavior, lack of friends, be positive and affirming of how special she is, how proud you are of her, how much you love to be with her, how you see she is growing up. Try to make her a special meal or treat. About your 4th session alone, and try for a little time every day, begin talking about how a princess would act, about how a lady acts - with graciousness, kindness, fairness. You have to make her feel and realize how special she is to you, how much you love her. Much of her behavior is classically insecure.
When she starts her shenanigans, the moment she starts, don't meet them with force, go and give her a big hug, a tickle, a kiss - meet her with love then distract her from the situation, or remove her from it. When she lies, don't ask her anything, don't challenge her, just state - "No, that's wrong." So much of the time she seems to have her back up - she must be so tired of being so defensive all the time.
YOU MUST BE A TEAM WITH HER FATHER AND TEACHERS!!! Send him all these emails. Be business like, not confrontational or accusatory. Your family needs lots of TLC and affection - children and spouse, and it all must come from you.

I just went through something similar with my now 8 year old. She was running with another girl who was doing the same thing. I have forbid her from being with this girl and to make better choices with her friends. She really cares what people think of her and I told her that no one likes a "brat" or "bully". We got her many books about self control and obeying. She is VERY strong willed and independent. It's not a bad thing, but it has to be directed in the right manner. We are constantly talking to her about her behavior and she gets lots of consequences. We just let her know that her choices determine the outcome. They can be good or bad. The worst thing to do with this kind of "strong will" is get into a battle of wills with someone else (ie. your husband). She needs to know that you make the rules and that's the way it is. No whinning or screaming is going to change the situation. We also have to make sure to overly praise her when she does make a good choice because we know that she is making a conscious effort to make good choices. With this major change in her life with moving and such, she just wants to know that you still love her no matter what. That's why she is going to test the boundries. We had a major change also and that's when we noticed the behavior changes too. Be strong! It will get better! If you would like to talk more in depth about this please e-mail me direct. Good luck!!

T.,
This is going to sound crazy, but watch Super Nanny. She has some great tips on handling discipline. Your husband may have some issues of his own, something in the way he was raised, that he may have to deal with, but if everyone has a plan they agree on for discipline, etc., maybe it would help.
Your situation cries out to me that your oldest needs some quality time with you. Get her helping you with dinner. Give her something special to do that the others don't. You may be relying on her more than you realize, since you have two other little ones, (which is totally understandable) and you can't forget she's still really young herself. My youngest child is 6, and I know I would be treating him a lot different if I had younger kids at home. He wouldn't get near as much cuddling, i.e., mommy time, because the younger ones would be that much more needy. But I think if you and your husband could take turns giving her your undivided attention, that could really help. Good luck!

It sonds like there have been alot of changes in your life lately. You must be under a lot of stress. Unfortunately, so is your daughter.

I have found that behavoir, good and bad, is a symptom of how someone feels inside. Maybe your daughter isn't feeling loved.

Years ago I read the book "The Five Love Languages" by Gary chapman, and, while I don't agree with everything he has to say in it, I feel that he at least gives a place to start.

You might be trying to show her affection, but it might not be an a way that she feels love the most. You can tell me that you love me until your face turns blue, but I feel truly loved and appreciated when someone does the dishes. Words of Affirmation means little, but Acts of Service mean everything. The three other languages are Quality Time, Recieving Gifts, and Physical Touch.

To save the child that it tettering on the top of a rickety stair, you need to start at the foundation. When I remember to use these languages with my husband, 4 sons, and my siblings my life goes smoother.

Tell your husband what you are trying to do. And good luck.

Your situation is complicated at this point. I was in a situation much like this before my divorce five years ago. You can't teach your husband to be more mature, but I know I wanted to keep my family together and I'm sure you do also. The first step is to have a heart to heart talk with your husband about it, and if he is willing get some help for his temper. Next is getting counseling for yourself and your daughter. I tried the "family counseling" thing, and it didn't work because it seemed things always got "twisted around" once we got home. Concentrate on what YOU can do to get help and get stronger. A little girls feelings about herself come from her father which is basic psychology, but even I didn't realize till I went to counseling how much that affected me and my children. The only thing I can say is that the yelling and immature behavior has to stop, and without knowing more about how much your husband is willing to get help, I urge you to leave him behind in getting help. The stress your daughter is feeling is motivating your behaviour. When I look back at the situation I came from the one thing I wish I had done differently in being married to a verbal abuser is putting my foot down while my husband still loved me. If I had done that, I think perhaps things may have been different. He may have wanted to change. Instead I put up with it and eventually once he had put me down, didn't respect me anymore, and I didn't respect myself anymore for not protecting my kids or myself, he stopped loving me and it didn't matter anymore to him to try to change. I know this is hard to do. But before you make any decisions go to couseling and get some help in understanding the dynamics of a family relationship like one you have. I wish you the best, and believe me divorce is not better, it is worth fighting for your family, but be brave, be strong, and don't do it alone.

Sounds like in order for you to start addressing your child's issues you and your husband need to be on the same page in your parenting plan. From what you've said about your husband your daughter may be picking up some bad habits from him-name calling, etc. I know kids do learn from us and I also grew up in a yelling household and surprise!!-I yell at my kids. And guess what,they yell back!! They are learning this horrible trait from me. My husband pointed out how ugly we all sound from the other room. And you know what-he is right!! I am becoming more aware and attempting to scale back and regain control of myself!

I would suggest you and husband take a parenting class together. My brother is adopting 2 children and you should see the amount of parent ed. they are required to take! I was a little jealous thinking about all the education they are getting while we're all here just figuring it out on our own through mistakes. I remember thinking, wow just think how much better we'd all be if we were required to take those classes. Anyway, I think that is a good place to start. Unless you start with your husband, all the progress you make with your daughter will be undermined by your husband and you will go insane!

Hi T.,

We recently moved to Southern California from Washington State. We have had problems with our 9 year old daughter. My husband heard of the Total Transformation Program by James Lehman. It costs approximately $300, but the investment is worth it. It gave us the parenting skill we needed. They also have a support line you can call for $29 a month. It's been nice having someone tell me what to do. Children should come with a manual! This is it!! Good luck!

PS This program comes with CDs and workbooks! The first CD has 10 great ways of stopping unwanted behaviors. It stopped my daughter in her tracks - she didn't know how to respond.