"Normal" Tween Girl Behavior?

Any guy who gets ANGRY over an 11 year old leaving out an empty wrapper or tracking in some mud would not live in my house for very long.
Why are you putting up with this guy?

The boyfriend is the problem, NOT the daughter. I have a 12 year old also. These are unreasonable demands he is making of a child and I don't mean to sound harsh, but get rid of him, this is signs of worse to come.

I don't have a tween but from what you say, she sounds better than I hope my girls are when they're that age. To me, he's unreasonable and not very nice...

As for the bike - big deal. If it was a random neighbor that might not give it back, not cool but good friends? Who cares?

sorry, i beg to disagree. you put him first every time you allow him to stay after he badmouths your daughter.

lose.

him.

period.

and ps, he doesn't care for YOU or respect YOU much at all if he is treating YOUR child this way. if he can be that two faced to her, i'd be VERY suspicious of what he's saying about YOU behind YOUR back.

He's only a boyfriend; she is your daughter. Kick him to the curb if he can't/won't get along with your child. Your first priority is to HER.

I am going to second and third what Melanie S said. Only I want to add that his controlling nature is not going to change, it's going to get worse the older she get's and the more opinionated she get's. You seriously need to rethink the relationship, your dd deserves someone, like her momma, that can recognize what a great young lady you have there.

Based on what you've shared here your daughter isn't the one with the problem, your boyfriend is.
I'd be doing some serious soul searching before deciding to move in with or marry a man who seems to have control issues (crumbs? and a wrapper?) She's YOUR daughter, not his, it's up to you and her father (if he's around) to set boundaries, guidelines and expectations.

Sounds like you have a great kid. I'd dump the boyfriend. He sounds like a jerk. I would never date a guy who gets so angry and upset with my daughter and refuses to actually talk to her about it. You say he has a daughter that he doesn't see that often and he thinks she's perfect. Of course he thinks she's perfect...he doesn't live with her and he barely sees her!

Your daughter sounds amazing and wonderful. You're not trivializing what your boyfriend is saying.

He sounds like a petulant, jealous, overly critical drama queen competing for mommy's attention and favor. What does he expect you to say? "You're right, JoeShmo, my daughter is a lazy little effer with no respect. It's time to start cracking down on her, that undeserving little upstart. I'll start keeping a belt on the hook so I don't hurt my hand when I have to beat her into submission, and start giving you permission to discipline and beat on her too. Maybe I should start to withhold love from that little skank too. What better way to teach her how to shape up and make sure every last damn crumb makes it into her mouth or else!"

He's only been with you for two years? This problem is only going to get worse. His resentment of your daughter will build to the point that she can see it and sense it, if she can't already. Luckily he's not her father which means you don't have to tolerate him speaking about your daughter like this. He clearly dislikes her and I believe he's jealous of her. You don't want a man like that in your home, let alone being married to him and around your child.

You are dating a misogynist. Dump him before he makes YOUR daughter "quiet and shy and humble".

Your daughter sounds amazing....and your BF sounds like a controlling jerk, sorry!

She is a normal kid...and to be honest *most* kids are NOT this tidy!

Your BF is lucky you do not have boys! I have a house full of boys and they have to be reminded to pick up after themselves ALL the time! But with that being said, they are STILL very good kids!

~True story: You can see EXACTLY where my oldest nephew has been in my house b/c he leaves a trail. Seriously! Stepped inside, took off football gear here (there it sits on the floor). Into the bathroom he went (there are his compression shorts and uniform). He plugged in his phone (cuz my phone is unplugged & his phone is on my charger). He had a snack (there is the wrapper to his food). Where is the Macbook? He had it b/c...etc, etc, etc.

Um, "real world"? How many adults are slobs? Your daughter sounds just fine. I can appreciate the frustration - I have a 16 yo step son who is oblivious to things. But, he'll clean up when I ask so I can't really complain. We have different standards of tidiness. Your bf needs to understand she is just like any other roommate - he can politely remind her to clean up after herself but he can't expect her to change. Maybe she'll grow out of it maybe she won't. Some people just don't see the mess. Remind him to control the things he can control and let go of the rest.

Good job standing up for your daughter :)
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After reading your SWH, he does sound very controlling. It is concerning how upset he gets over such minor things - you really need to reexamine if this is the type of person you want in your home. Is he adding stress or relieving it?

And, as another person said, the more controlling he is the more your daughter will push back. As parents, we should relax the boundaries as our children get older otherwise they rebel. This seems a recipe for disaster.

Good luck to you!
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It is even more concerning that he allows resentment to build up and explode into an angry outburst. He is not managing his emotions properly and that is a very difficult problem to fix (assuming he is even willing to recognize it and try). If he can't manage his anger, you and your daughter will be walking on eggshells and that is unacceptable. He may not have said anything to your daughter yet, but he'll eventually lose it with her. I agree with another mama about the concern of backbiting. That is something I do not take lightly and a can be very damaging in itself. I also wonder how he presented this story to others in a way that would cause people to agree with him. It seems you are doing everything you can to see things from his perspective - just make sure you maintain your boundaries to prevent things from escalating.

You have a grown man angry at a young girl for no reason. Even worse, he can't manage his anger in a healthy way. Try to step back and think about if this is the right environment for you and your daughter.

Your daughter is awesome. She lives with you because shes not an adult! He needs to back off! Ive been in your situation and i will say it will only get worse....as much as you dont want to hear it....you also dont want a divorce. You will end up in the middle of your daughter and this unreasonable man-not a fun place to be and i promise you when it comes down to him or her.....she wins every time!!

My ex also didn't see, or parent his "perfect" children but could criticize mine everyday. They are clueless. Like i said, if you are fighting over this now, it will only get worse.

The only 'problem' that I can see that you have is your BF. MAke him stop this behavior and if he can't it should be a dealbreaker. Sorry but anyone who would act like that about my kid would be O.U.T. Your responsibility is to your daughter.

Typical tween behavior? No, many tweens are MUCH WORSE!

She is normal for her age. My 11-year old SD can't remember anything, doesn't pick up after herself and I have to get after her to take a shower! That seems normal. She can get herself up in the morning and make food for herself. It's that in-between age where they aren't quite ready for real responsibility. That's why they are "tweens." I get frustrated, but honestly--it's NOT A BIG DEAL.

Get rid of the boyfriend. Before he makes your daughter feel bad!

I may be way off here but, I am really concerned about his belittling attitude of your daughter in case you decide to carry this relationship further. If you were married and lived together how much worse would he be and say it to her directly? Maybe things are comfortable to you as they are now and you don't need to think about this possibility, but if you want to eventually marry you will have to think about this. The next few years are going to be very delicate for her and she does not need to hear how awful she is from him. What if she started to believe it?! How will this affect the person she will become?

You are asking for an opinion so here is mine: step away from this relationship. The longer you are with him the more likely you are to want more with him and that means he will have more access to your daughter. More access means he will chip away at her confidence and self esteem.

Good luck.

She sounds great. I know exactly what you mean about how she can clean her room and it looks messy (but really isn't) if she just pulls a few things out of the closet to try on. She doesn't have time before school to hang it all up and he thinks her room is a trashpit. (I have an 11-year-old girl too and she is all about keeping her room nice but she doesn't do laundry yet or put away dishes unless asked. You have a gem.)

But is HE a gem? You say "he is not nice" when he gets angry. You mention that he will "explode with anger" with you over her so-called bad behavior.

Do you really want this man in your life enough to put up with that kind of disrespect toward you, your parenting, and your truly good kid? I think he is utterly unrealistic and that is not going to change if he stays in your child's life longer and longer, no matter how much you would like it to change. His own child is perfect. Yours is wrong, bad and....she's standing between him and a perfectly crumb-free life with you, alone.

Think about it: Is this really all about her cleanliness, or are there other little nagging ways that he controls you, runs your relationship, digs at her, finds fault with one or both of you?

Sounds like a controller. They don't change, especially when they "know best" because they have already had one perfect child. Your chiild, however, is not perfect and is not his, so he resents her.

You are right. Count your blessings. Your daughter is your greatest blessing and she's subjected to a man who is going to beat down her self-esteem and make her feel she is never, ever good enough. If you and he continue, do you really want to always have to defend her to him, and comfort her when she feels horrid because of him?

Is he worth that?

After reading your post and your "So What Happened", I really think the problem is your boyfriend. He sounds controlling and resentful of your daughter. Try to stop seeing it from his side so much. It sounds like his side is very controlling and petty.

Your daughter is only 11 and being badgered by a 38 year old. Your daughter will learn responsibility in time, but your boyfriend seems to want her to behave and reason like an adult without taking the time to guide her in how to be responsible. You are a mother, first and foremost, in your heart. I completely believe that! However, you are allowing your boyfriend to make you believe that the problem lies solely with your daughter. He is trying to control YOU, as well as your daughter. Do you want that kind of life for you and your daughter? I hope you choose to kick this mutton head to the curb. :)

edit*
You don't get it, do you? Your daughter is a NORMAL 11 year old. Your boyfriend has unrealistic expectations and is making YOU the problem and you seem to think that you are the problem as well. This shouldn't be such a big struggle. Yes, teach her to pick up. Yes, teach her to be responsible. Yes, follow through after you set the expectation. That's normal parenting. Expecting a child to be a neat freak robot after being told a couple of times is very unrealistic. Your boyfriend is controlling. The problem is him and he shouldn't be badgering you about this. I hope you wake up and see how he is treating you. Your daughter shouldn't be forced to meet HIS standards. Yes, she should be taught consideration and cleanliness, but it's a PROCESS and requires guidance and modeling.

I think your boyfriend is way out of line. I hope you don't allow him to get on her case. He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

She sounds great, it's a good thing he doesn't say anything to her, because it's absolutely not his place to do so.

When she becomes a teenager, she is likely to become more difficult. If he has a problem with her now, just wait till she becomes a teen. I hope you are ready to protect her from any mean things he might say to her, because I think it's only going to be a matter of time. If he doesn't like her, which it sounds like he doesn't, she will definitely pick up on it, and that's not good for her.

I hope this boyfriend is worth it -- think twice before you marry him, and if he gets too hard on your daughter I hope you are ready to dump him. Too interested in playtime?? Oblivious to the real world? He needs to lighten the hell up, is what I say.

Your "problems" with her sound like nothing, frankly. I can't imagine why your bf gives a damn about where her bike is.

I'm getting really angry thinking about your bf, he sounds like a real a-hole, actually. Haven't read your What Happened yet.

Just read your W.H. Sorry, but I think your bf is a jerk.

I don't see any problems with your sweet daughter's behavior. I see lots of problems with your jerky boyfriend's behavior. He sounds clueless and annoying.

Things aren't going to get any better when she is an actual teen who isn't as perfect as his daughter. I would predict he'll be even more judgmental. I would definitely let him go.

i think your boyfriend stinks and should be concentrating on how to bond with her and treat her like his own more than crumbs

the boyfriend is the problem.
Your daughter does much more than many 11 yr olds do.
I think you've done a good job with her.
My almost 11 yr old ,unloads the dishes and does wash her own laundry ( new thing we started with both kids) but that's it, her room is a disaster she does leave stuff around and unless I ask her to pick it up she doesn't really see it.

ETA: Daughter should always win. she's your flesh and blood he's replaceable she's not.
ETA2: no kid on the planet does everythign they are told the first time everytime. The fact that is daughter is so subdued and "meek" etc is a pretty big red flag.

Does your boyfriend live with you? Help pay the mortgage, household expenses, etc? If not, he has no say in how you run your house because when he is there is simply a guest.

Your daughter sounds like a responsible young lady. I still have to prompt my 16 year old son into getting ready each morning and while he does chores, I have to remind him constantly. So, your daughter is aces with me!!!

Your boyfriend, on the hand, is nitpicking and petty. And trying to drive a wedge between you and your daughter. Has he always been like this? Or is this new behavior and complaining for him? Either way, I think he is out of line and being unreasonable.

For me, with relationships, it always comes down to my child being first - period. If a man I dated was this harsh, rude and immature (from your SWH comment) I would not continue the relationship.

I realize that you did not ask for relationship advice - but I have never understand how someone can profess their love for a boyfriend who clearly does not like or even tolerate their children.

About the standards of clean for a teens room - if she makes up her bed, you can see the floor, and clothing and personal items do not look like they have exploded all the room - it is clean. The fact that she vacuums and does dishes is amazing. The fact that she doesn't toss her things all over the common areas of the house is amazing.

The bike thing - eh, my son and his friends leave things at each others homes all the time. It all eventually finds it way back.

Meh if he is like this with an 11 year old forget it not worth it. Your 11 year old needs you more

Wow! I can only compare your girl to my 9 year old son. Your daughter is WAY more responsible & independent & organized!
What makes your boyfriend such an expert, I wonder?
Poor kid. I hope he keeps his observations to himself.

Updated
Time to say goodbye to this guy. Why does he think he has a right to express his opinion about YOUR daughter? Bah-bye!

Your daughter is great and your boyfriend doesn't have a clue.
His being hyper critical like this would be a turn off to me.
He gets really mad over nothing (does he have anger issues?) and that's a red flag.
What he's saying SHOULD be trivialized.
Dump this guy.
You can do better.

If he doesn't have children-he's never going to "get it" (emphasis on never!). He's trying to make you choose-you daughter or him-poor guy-sounds like he's going down in a big way! My estranged husband (no children) would come in the house and throw keys, bags, groceries, etc down on my dining room table-scratching it to pieces and not caring a bit-but if one of my children left a $2 croquet mallet leaning up against the shed-he would have a bona fide conniption! Key word-estranged. He is being unreasonable, petty, and not worth your time or love. With the stuff one reads reads in the news and on this website-he should grateful you have such a lovely daughter.

Really? I get that you're a mom first, but you're asking this question. Let someone say that about my kid and I'd be tempted to knock them sideways. Your daughter sounds responsible and like a typical tween. He sounds like a control freak. So help me God, when anyone tries to tell me that I'm doing something wrong in the way I'm raising my kids, that's the last time we speak. He doesn't have to approve of everything she does, but he doesn't have to be a jerk. He IS a bad guy if he is treating your daughter this way. Sorry, no way to get around that. You may love him, but he's not nice to your kid...I don't get staying.

My daughter is 9 and her room gets horrible sometimes. If it gets out of hand and she doesn't get it clean when she's told, she faces consequences, most likely losing dance class because that is a huge part of her life that she loves. It works better than any other punishment. So I don't expect my kids rooms to be spotless, but tidy is good.

Either way, tell the man to grow up and let YOU raise your child or tell him to get out.

He is a control freak. There is nothing wrong (and a lot right) with your daughter. Most of the time she acts responsibly with occasional forgetful lapses. Show me an adult who never slips up.
BF needs to sit down and STFU.

Sounds to me that HE has a problem. Is he a neat freak? Like totally OCD about it?

Even though he doesn't say anything to her in a way he is borderline if not actually emotionally and verbally abusive. It sounds like he is looking for problems where none are. Nit-pick to perfectionism will set your daughter up for some real emotional problems when she is older. She may develop the feelings that she is never good enough. In my opinion he needs counseling and if he won't go --- then he needs to be out of your and her life.

She sounds like a typical tween and actually more responsible that a lot of them. Sounds to me like you need to get rid of him. If he is going to constantly have issues with her he does not deserve you and your daughter in his life. You need someone that accepts you and her the same!!!!

I'm not trying to be judgmental, just stating facts. If he's a live-in boyfriend he's going to mess your daughter up. Marry him or get rid of him. The dynamics of a shack up situation are very harmful to children.
This particular problem is his not your daughter's. He shouldn't be making you or (sooner or later) HER feel inadequate or criticized. It will carry over to her.
Do what's best for her. Not you. Or him. When she's 18 & out of the house then you can put your wants & needs first. But this short precious time raising her has such a profound effect on her for a lifetime. Good luck.

My SF was a controlling a-hole while we were growing up. My mom did nothing. I don't speak to either one now.

It can be really frustrating to deal with a child who seems to have a sieve for brains...but that is pretty much every kid between the ages of 11 and 18. What I would do is ask him to calmly ask her to clean up what is reasonable. If he just frets about the bike vs asking her to go retrieve it, then there's no communication that he's bothered by it or wants it done. Sometimes I do talk to DH and ask him to address an issue and sometimes I address it myself. How does a bagel bag on the counter = lecture about how the world works? If she were 17 and lamenting that she didn't have a car, that would be different. Or if she was 21 and mooching off you doing nothing.

I would take a look at whether or not he's ever reasonable. If it's just a matter of a few crumbs or a wrapper, then the answer is to calmly ask her to take care of it. Hopefully it will become habit, just like all the other things you taught her. But if he goes sproing at every crumb, maybe there's a bigger issue here.

Honestly, if she does the dishes without being reminded, she's doing better than my sks, ever. If you don't have to wake her regularly, she's better than they were (and DH got up early every day to get them off to HS because otherwise it meant driving them to school). Maybe she needs to do better here or there, but she doesn't sound like a terrible kid to me.

Does he think HE is perfect? And why shouldn't an 11 yr old play? Let her be a kid.

ETA: You don't need to be there from conception to understand children. You don't need to have children of your own to understand children. There are plenty of nice stepparents out there - I certainly tried hard to be one. His response shows displaced anger toward your child. Do you think he resents her? And, frankly, why even say anything? Why say "I ALMOST got you something but didn't"? That's just mean. If it comes up and she says, "I'd like a..for Christmas" you can say, "If you want expensive things, you need to show that you can take care of them. You left your bike at so and so's house for a week. That wasn't very responsible. How can you show me that you'll take better care of x and y IF you were to get one?" Make her part of the solution. But don't go off on her about something he didn't get her anyway. What a jerk!

I'd be watching that kind of behavior. My xSF really damaged my sister's self-esteem in part because our mother let him jump in and "be the parent" all of a sudden and he had really crazy ideas about what a 14 yr old girl should be like and came down on her very hard. She cried to me more than once and I was heartbroken for her (I was in college). You say it's behind closed doors now, but it sounds like he's itching to go off on her.

So, wait, he has a daughter that he only sees occasionally and she's perfect? I'm sure she has her moments. She's 16. But he doesn't live with her and he sees her "occasionally" and kids often behave far different with people they don't see often. I think his comparison of your DD to his is unfair. Apples and oranges. They are different people, different ages, and he doesn't see his DD much while he sees yours daily...wait, do you think that's part of it? That he doesn't see his DD but he has to handle yours and part of him is sad that he doesn't see her but he can't express it appropriately? Kind of like a kid taking it out on the stepparent because they are there when the bioparent isn't? Either way, it's not nice of him.

So if he won't talk to her and only blows up at you or keeps it in til he wants to read her the riot act then he's not doing anything to resolve what he claims is the issue. So that's not really the issue. It's something else. He's acting like a jealous teenager. He wants her to know how the world works but he won't even give her the respect to speak to her when there's an issue. So who's the adult here?

id say what she already does is pretty damn good for an 11 year old! .. it sounds to me like he hasnt spent much time around girls or kids her age.. and im sure he doesnt spend enough time with his 16 yr old.. did he live with her when she was that age?? .. im sure his daughter isnt always a perfect angel and he just doesnt spend enough time with her to realize that

I would just tell him to mind his own business or ask her politely to clean up the crumbs if it bothers him that much. Did he buy her the bike, is it his bike? Just let him know its not his job to worry about it. And I would never someone tell me how to parent my child. Just let him know Thats doesnt need to agree with all your parenting choices but he does need to respect them.

Perhaps the next time he overreacts about something trivial, you can ask him innocently "What do you think is an appropriate consequence for that behavior?" Because truthfully, anything he says is going to seem over the top and he's going to know that. And if he doesn't...

Typical teen things. She is 11. She is still a child that needs some light reminding. Children LIKE to be lightly corrected.. it lets them know we care about their behaviors. She also deserves 5 times more positive comments to her face than the negative he is sharing with you,

Your Boyfriend really does not seem to have real experience living with a child for long periods of time. His expectations are fine, but it should not be constant criticism and it certainly should not be enough to make you or your daughter feel uncomfortable in your OWN home and make you feel like you have not done a good job of parenting.

Follow your mommy heart and brain.. and if they are sending you a red flag.. it is for a good reason..

I'd say for an 11 year old she is doing pretty darn good!
It is so easy for an outsider, or someone w/ out kids to know it all. Easier said then done.
Your boyfriend needs to cool it. Leaving out an occasional wrapper and crumbs on the counter...? Really? Thats his biggest b*tch? So he I assume then that HE picks up all of his messes, EVERY time? He cleans your house spotless to help out all the time? He needs to grow up!

Here is what he could witness instead.....
My youngest brother is 17. He doesn't clean his room, ever. He doesn't do dishes, take out trash, mow the lawn ever. My father is recently disabled, and my mom approaching her 60's. Yet that child is waited on hand and foot. He has never ran a vacuum in his life. Pushed a broom, or a mop. EVER. It's ridiculous and disquisting.
Your daughter is 11 years old. She sounds responsible for her age. She should also be allowed to be child. If she leaves a small mess, yes ask her to come clean it up. But get over it. She's learning. But being bullied and put down is no way to teach her. He sounds like a jerk.

Okay here is the thing, some of what you say sounds like a great kid, leaving the bike would not fly in this house. You take care of your things, if not I start thinking you are spoiled.

From what you tell here I can't tell where your daughter is. I mean my kids don't get themselves ready in the morning without prompts, on the other hand they would never leave their bikes anywhere for that long.

Like I said before I edited, what is normal or good really depends on the child.

He is being unreasonable. is he like this on other topics? I assume he has no other kids?