Pastoral Perks??

I am the CEO of a not-for-profit. My Board would laugh me out of the room if I asked for these in the budget. It would be a completely improper use of funds. If the pastor would like these paid for, then she should renegotiate her own salary and pay for them herself. If she can't renegotiate, then she should pay for them herself anyway.

For $5500, is she expecting childcare for the vast majority of nights and weekends? I would think an appropriate budget would be similar to that of a non-pastoral employee. No one gets paid babysitters for evenings and weekends. I would think if word got out that nearly 40% of the school budget went to this, you will have some angry parishioners. I know I wouldn't be tithing if I knew my money was going to baby sit the pastor's kid.

Wow, next year she may want the congregation to pay to get her nails done. This sounds crazy to me.

My husband has been the president of our congregation before. No, this is not a normal expense. Nor is the personal trainer. Seriously?!

That amount is a lot of money and I would not agree to that as a church member. Sorry. She is being paid a salary. I am very aware of the hours our clergy put in BUT you don't get rich being a minister. To me, that is really a calling and it is not for everyone.

Nope. Childcare expense is paid by HER salary.

As a minister I know you get a lot of call outs at weird hours. I once had to go to the ER for someone at 10 PM I was there 8 hours, so I got home at 6 AM. I do not have children at home now they are all grown and gone. If she needs childcare at odd hours tell her she can drop of her child with one of a few parisheners who can take care of the child in these instances. I am sure you can get a volunteer list of people with children who can 'babysit' in their home, for free, for the pastor.

Good grief.
Seems like proper financial boundaries, are being, crossed.

Since the personal trainer went through without a problem I'm sure she's just stepping it up a bit and figured no one would deny the childcare. The church shouldn't be paying for either of those expenses. She can join the Y for $40-45 a month and pay for it herself (sometimes the Y will offer a discount to local businesses and groups. My son gets a 10% discount through work). For child care she can do the same thing everyone else does; bring the child along or pay for a sitter herself. I'm sure there are teens in the church that would be willing to come to the church to babysit for a little pocket money.

sounds like she became a pastor, just for the perks. She can afford it with her $60,000 a year salary. This is something that angers me, it really turns people away from the church. It is hard enough for the church to encourage people to pay their tithes, and then some people go above and beyond in asking. I for one would have a huge problem with it. It is not the church's responsibility to pay for her personal trainer or childcare. It would be really interesting to know what kind of perks her husband asks for at his church. That is odd, 2 pastors husband and wife at different churches.

that's over $400 per week for child care! That is out of line. I agree that she should use the infant room during normal services and then if she needs to pay someone for hospital visits/funerals, etc., then she should pay and submit a receipt for reimbursement.

The personal trainer should be omitted altogether. That is a luxury, not a necessity.

Wow..this caught my eye out of mere curiosity.

I have no idea what the salary and perks should look like for pastoral positions.

All our leaders in our church are non paid positions...they donate their time to serving the Lord and fellow man and have a job to make a living. I am LDS...known as Mormon to many people. My husband serves as a counselor to our Bishop. They put in long hours helping others and running our local congregation and don't receive a penny for it.

This blows me away that people get paid this much and get these perks for serving our Lord. I am sorry, I don't wish to offend anyone. But this seems like a big money making racket. Personal trainer, childcare?? Ugh...there are probably people in your church and community that those funds could really help get basics of food and shelter.

I am really sorry if I offend anyone..this was not meant to do that. I am just blown away right now. I had no idea other churches ran like this. Sounds like it isn't sitting well with you either. Between the two of them, they are making out really well making a business out of serving God.

Just came across your So What Happened days after my original response.- $1,500 for a pastor appreciation reception??!!?? Ok..now I am not worried about offending anyone!! Who the heck asks for a personal appreciation dinner!? Who?

What ever happened to a congregation throwing a good ol' fashioned potluck for their pastor/leader and give them a card of appreciation. This is sounding really fishy to me now. If I were you...I might go looking for another church not run by this woman or her husband. Look for a church who's focus is serving God's children...not throwing their own self serving receptions.

what religion is this? i may consider changing religions and becoming a pastor. personal trainer? sign me up!!!
no, kidding aside, it's outrageous, her demands, i mean.

Oh good lord, you've got to be joking! I can't believe your pastor has the balls to ask for these kinds of things...and I can't believe it was approved to pay for a personal trainer for her. What?!!!!

I truly think that a person should get their salary and pay for what they want out of that money. Geesh, wanting a salary and wanting you to pay for what they want too, that's out there.

If you have a large church where the money is abundant and the budget can afford this then it's no big deal but if this takes money away from other areas that really need it then no way, child care is the parents cost just as a personal trainer is.

I think this is out of line and ridiculous. Do we pay our miltary people extra for childcare? They are also "on call" 24-7 and have no choice when they have to get up and go. What about police? Firemen? Teachers? Etc. Sorry, but being a pastor and being a parent were both her choices. Childcare should NOT be included in the budget. Nor should a personal trainer or books. Insane.

I'd fight back on those, stop donating to the church, or look at switching. Honestly.

She gets a personal trainer? Really? I work out in my family room and do just fine. I think she can do the same.

As for paying for childcare? I don't know about that. I could maybe if something conflicted with her husband and she needed it, emergencies do happen but that's something that normal working parents take care of.

And if she is paid $60,000 she can pay her own day care. my husband and I together make close to $70,000 and we pay for childcare for 2 kids. It makes things tight for us but it's doable. We chose to have kids, that is our responsibility.

Then you add on at least $40,000 for her husband's salary and you darn well know they can afford childcare. Plus there will be people in either of the churches who would be more than happy to watch their child. So I think what she is asking for is selfish maybe and unrealistic.

Since her husband is also a pastor, I'm betting that the child care money is because she and he both likely have weeknight meetings on the same nights, etc. We have a mom who is a pastor with two very young kids but her husband is with the kids when she's at evening events and otherwise she has to juggle things around the kids' preschool schedules. (She would surely LOVE to have paid-for child care!). I just think that in the case of a two-pastor family there may actually be some reason for the child care line item-- but I would wonder if the two churches could work together somehow; is dad's church also paying for child care separately? If that were the case they would be basically getting two stipends for the same one cost. I would ask her and him about it flat-out.

Some are saying "the church could provide child care" but I know from experience that that is not realistic. No one is going to open a whole nursery up just during an hour-long Tuesday night finance committee meeting, and no infant needs to be hauled to church weeknights disrupting his or her sleep etc.

I do think that the fact the expense is 38 percent of the school/kids' program budget is significant. That would not fly at most churches when put in that perspective. I think this expense needs discussion with both her and her husband and some reality check on the amount.

The personal trainer thing is way off, though. Totally a personal choice and should be paid for by the pastor herself, entirely.'

ADDED: I just returned to read your SWH addition. Another $2,800 for books etc. and $1,500 for a RECEPTION for her? Both are ridiculous and more importantly -- not in the spirit of good stewardship that puts others first. I was able to be more open to the idea of child care $$ but hearing about nearly three grand for books and half that for a mere party -- has anyone at church asked, "How could we serve the poor in our area with that money"? This budget vote should not turn into a fight, but why hasn't the budget committee already dismantled these personal perk expenses before it ever got this close to a congregational vote?

I truly don't know what's normal for the pastoral budget. My opinion is that the pastor should be paid a specific salary and all personal or family expenses that they have should be paid by them out of that salary.

Baby can be in the church nursery during evenings and weekends for church events, just like the other babies whose parents attend the church.

Pastor can pay for a YMCA membership out of his salary, which is $45 a month around here...$540 a year.

If she really cannot afford childcare, then she needs to ask for a raise. Then she can deal with claiming child care costs on her taxes. This is the fair, transparent way to deal with this issue and to avoid further conflict and boundary problems. I would also suggest that a high school student could be found for the odd hour child care needs. This is a church and I am sure she will appreciate the opportunity to teach young people the importance of serving the religious community.

Nope. Sorry. The church congregation should NOT be paying for her personal trainer nor her babysitter.

If she's doing an evening service? The church can start an infant room or if they already have it? they can make sure someone from the church is available AT THE CHURCH for services ONLY. Otherwise? babysitting should come out of their personal pocket.

You are NOT out of touch.

I am privy to the budget at our church because of committees I serve on, and no, this is not normal. Our pastor earns a bit more, but receives no additional perks.

No - our church does NOT have things like this for our pastor. We do have books and periodicals - some are paid for by the church, some our pastor pays for himself. Not sure about the appreciation stuff. I do think there is some money in the budget for those but I think they include the entire staff. A personal trainer would NEVER fly in our budget nor would childcare. If the church is having a function that child care is being provided for anyway - the pastor is more than welcome to leave their children there. But to have a babysitter just for them for the evenings & weekends is uncalled for. They should be able to pay for that themselves. Maybe one of the teenagers in the church would be happy to do it for little money. Being a pastor is a job. That job includes evenings and weekends. If my job included evenings & weekends I would be expected to proved my own childcare at my own expense. My work wouldn't pay for it !

It does sound out of line to me. There are many people with much bigger jobs that don't get those perks. This is a non-profit organization that relies on donations. Vote down the budget if it includes these items. You can be nice about it...just say that since we are a non profit, perks like trainers and childcare can be perceived as exorbitant. People DO look at how money is spent and churches have been under fire for lesser things.

Geez, even the Unitarian Universalists aren't that liberal with their money. Way WAY out of line.

Rates for each seem about right in my neck of the woods. $50 each week for the personal trainer, and 9 hours a week at a rate or $12/hr for the sitter. Whether or not you think that these are excessive add ons, or unseemly for the pastor, is up to you and your congregation.

Best,
F. B.

Hmmm. I actually think it's smart planning. I get it that most working moms pay for child care out of their own paychecks, but being a pastor requires such an incredible amount of extra, personal time. Imagine hospital visits, funerals, weddings, seminars, where she can not tote her baby along.

I think for just church functions, when there is childcare available, then yes, she should use those services, but her role is not limited to just the property where the church sits.

I am more bothered by a personal trainer. That line item is nonsense and is purely a personal preference and not a necessity. Childcare is a necessity so she can work odd hours in unusual places.

No, my church does not provide these kinds of benefits, and the salary is similar to yours.

No way is this normal.
I have a good friend who is a pastor.
Some pastors take a free will salary.
Surely the congregation can provide childcare. Cost? $0.

this sounds unreasonable to me and I would have to vote against the budget. I do not know anyone who receives childcare reimbursement for regularly scheduled hours they are required to work. But I understand her concerns about having consistent quality childcare for her child. On Sundays, the congregation is expecting her to be the spiritual leader. She cannot concern herself with her baby in the nursery and her hours of work on Sunday may exceed the hours the nursery is open. (or is part of the increase to have the nursery open for longer hours on Sunday???) Also, as pastor, she may be "on call" to the members of the congregation for emergencies -deaths, serious illnesses or accidents, personal crisis. Dragging a new baby to an evening budget meeting that may gone on for hours and expecting a high schooler to watch her baby may not be the level of care she wants for her infant. I think she and her husband need to pay for their own childcare just like other people in their congregations do. If you want to give her a salary increase, that's fine but to expect a budget line for her childcare is unreasonable.

The personal trainer thing is over and above. A gym membership, yes.

I don't know, but I bet the babysitting thing is handled by family and this is just for giving them money for something they would do for free. I'd ask for receipts and they would be reimbursed. She's probably worried about child care but that's pretty pricy.

sounds crazy to me, but I am wondering if somehow the salary is low for a reason and this helps to get it up to a competitive rate? like maybe they have to keep the salary down for some reason, but they have the extra money they would have paid in salary to do this other crazy stuff.

I could not believe the salary our pastor was pulling down. in the
$130, 000s. we ended up cutting all kinds of staff and then he left for something bigger and better. He also got a lot of paid trips like a months worth of study leave over seas and airfare and accomadations.

Those don't seem like reasonable expenses to me. We are not churchgoers, however we own a business so I'm familiar with benefits administration. I would consider paying for gym memberships for my employees, because regular exercise helps employees stay healthy, and that will reduce medical expenses and absenteeism. So, gym membership, yes, personal trainer, no. $200/month for a personal trainer is excessive, in my opinion, and if the pastor wants to have a personal trainer, she should pay for that out of her own salary.

Likewise, the only way I'd consider paying childcare for any of my employees is if I had an emergency project and was asking them to drop everything and come in to work. I do have some single parents in my employ, so I understand that it can be hard to find friends/ family to watch your child last-second. But in any case, I wouldn't expect that figure to be $5500/year. She's the pastor of a church, for crying out loud. Surely there's a teenager in your church who could watch the baby now and then for a much more reasonable price than that? And in any case, all of us who are working moms have to arrange for childcare out of our own salaries. I think your pastor should do the same.

Peace Corps demands that volunteers live in the same fashion as the people they serve...

Pastors should do the same. Salary yes. Fancy clothes, homes, cars... No.

Our pastor does NOT have a personal trainer! I think what she is asking for are things that should come out of her salary. She and her DH should budget for the gym and a babysitter just like anybody else. Or she and her DH can trade off who needs to be at meetings when. Take the baby to the church nursery on Sunday. Etc.

If she needs an associate pastor, she doesn't have time to hang out with the personal trainer. Those items should be shifted to pay for the assistant, IMO, if she actually needs one.

Wow! You guys must have a large church budget. Is it a large church? At our church the Pastor is paid about $60,000.00 with totally free healthcare. No, we don't pay for sitters or personal trainers or any of the other things. We just couldn't afford it. Don't your members get upset when they see these things on the budget?

No, not normal.
But our church doesn't allow anyone married in it.