School Behavior & Karate (Update on Karate or Cub Scouts)

If you think of karate as education - teaching discipline, concentration, respect, etc. then I wouldn't take it away any more than I would keep him from school.

If you think of karate as entertainment - then it fits into the optional category and can come only after the basics are met.

Well, I approach the whole martial arts thing like it is part of their overall learning and a type of school, therfore it would not be taken away for punishment. Definitly let his Sensei know and he should have a talk with him and depending on your sons age, Sensei should have some suggestions for helping to correct these behaviors. My kids attend a mixed Japenese marital arts class including Ninjitsu for about 2 yrs now. They understand that it is a school just like any other and you make a commitment of learning to attend - they can't skip just because they don't feel like going, anymore than they could skip a day of 2nd grade because they didn't feel like going. Karate will help him in the long run, but it must be given time. Tell your hubby to look at it this way - If your son was going to couseling for his behavior problems and he then got in trouble at school, would you discontinue the counseling?? The martial arts need to be understood as a school of learning, not just a privledge of good behavior.

Is there a Master teacher at the karate school? if so you need to talk to him/her privately and let him know if your son's behavior issues at school.
Tell the instructior that the rules at home were to stay in karate or scouts behavior at school needed to be good and your son is having a problem with this. At the ATA Taekwondo school my daughter attended in elementary school for almost 5 yrs the Master teacher there was quite open to talking to parents of young students who were having problems at school and home with behavior issues or poor grades. The Master would often have short, open door private chats with young grade school age students in class who had problems with behavior at school and home. They would encourage the student to do better and talk to them about about responsibility, perseverance, doing your best in all that you do, this is part of the discipline concept that went along with the ATA Taekwondo pgm and it was great. Often I saw the Master had a very positive influence on children after talking to them on request of parents. I would even consider asking the Master that if he/ she can to htis for your son each week. It might be a good idea for your child to bring in his/her behavior mark book directly from school each day he has karate class so he/she can see the behavior marks indictated in by the teacher. This way your child will have a greater sense of responsibility about behaving at school when he knows the Karate Master is going to see his behavior book in addition to Mom and Dad. IF your karate school is a good one this is something they should have no problems doing weekly for a while. Just a though, hope it helps.

How old is your son?

My daughter is 7 and takes Karate. She LOVES it. It is twice a week, in the evenings. However, IF she does not finish her homework, she knows, that she cannot make it to Karate. It is 'responsibility.' Because she loves Karate, this is an incentive for her. She cooperates.

For your son, did his bad behavior in school happen even prior to taking Karate?
if so, then I don't believe that Karate will, now so suddenly, "change" his overall behavior. It takes time and learning.....Because, his behavior existed PRIOR to taking Karate.
You could try and have the Sensei talk to him... as an incentive....
At my Daughter's Karate school, the Sensei's also, emphasize behavior in and out of school and at home, for example.
But kids have their own issues... which are not instantly 'solved' by Karate. But Karate is a good influence... and some of the kids in my daughter's class... are and were real 'trouble makers' and after a while of being in Karate... REALLY become outstanding young gentlemen. One of the Sensei's for example, is now a black belt and an Instructor there. HE was himself, a troubled child... behaviorally. Which Karate helped him.

Next, what is your son's Teacher, doing in class? For his behavior? Why the bad marks? Can the Teacher suggest anything? How does she discipline in class? Can he see the school Counselor????
Things like this, takes a variety of 'team effort' from a variety of people sometimes... ie: the school Teacher, at home, Karate class... but mostly it takes consistency as well.

Or does he have learning problems, hence his bad behavior in class???? Does anything trigger it?

Just some ideas...
all the best,
Susan

One suggestion- can you sit down with your child and make this his problem? Explain the situation to him- that getting behavior marks in school is causing problems for him in and out of school. (Help him list these). Ask him to think about why the problems are happening (sitting by a friend that tempts him to talk, a subject he has trouble with, etc) Then, ask him to come up with a solution to the problem including his own consequences if he doesn't follow through. Help him create an "action plan" that he can present to his teacher. I think if you make it his problem and he has a hand in fixing it, it might be more successful and give him some control. (Maybe losing karate could be one of the consequences if his problems continue.) Have everyone sign off on it (parents, child, and the teacher is she is willing.)

I was a former elementary teacher and had success with this type of thing in my classroom for kids with minor behaviors (like those you've listed.) They are really common "kid stuff" by the way and nothing that I would be really worried about. Also, get more details on the specific infraction and note any commonalities (during the same time of day, with a certain other student, etc) to help you figure out what is going on. Not following directions is pretty vague and could be anything from something very minor to something quite disruptive.

It would be a shame for him to stop karate if it has a chance to improve his behavior. Maybe you could have the karate instructor talk to your husband. If additional punishment is needed, maybe extra chores or less TV time at home.
My son was too out-of-control to even start karate and has always had behavior issues at school. Promising giant rewards or punishments at home did NOT correct his behavior at school. The school now has a plan to deal with it(and he started ADHD meds). Immediate consequences seem to work the best. If he hits another kid, then he has to sit in the office and write an apology letter. If he follows directions and is quiet he gets tickets throughout the day that can be turned in for a reward at the end of the day.

let him go and inform his sensei and let him discipline it. :) its called extra pushups.

Keep taking him to karate. From what I remember about your previous posting, your husband is not going to be encouraging of this child no matter what he does. The karate will help him and give him some structured (and fun at the same time) discipline. He'll see other male leaders that are good role models for him too. Take him to karate class every chance possible ... the more times a week the better. In our karate program, the most troubled/discipline problem kids ended up doing the best but it may have taken months to see any results. Many of them are now in law enforcement careers or karate school owners themselves. It's as much about a commitment from you as the child. Don't give in. He really NEEDS this class.

Your husband is right. If he learns that he will not be able to do what is fun unless he behaves, this is discipline. Karate will not do to much unless he is already a respectful little guy and does what he is told. Good luck!

Well, I understand the principle behind karate and everything, but if the kid doesn't, he shouldn't be allowed to go.
I'll tell you why I think that.
One of my friends signed her kid up for karate and even when he was given detention for yelling at the teacher and totally verbally disrespecting her in front of the class, the mom went and yanked the kid out of detention because she wasn't going to let detention interfere with his karate lessons.
I think it should have been the other way around. Karate shouldn't have interfered with him being reprimanded for for blatant disrespect to his teacher.
The authority of the teacher was undermined, rules for classroom conduct were undermined and guess what. The kid continued getting in trouble at school and bailed on karate because he was "bored" with it. As in....you have to sit still, take your turn and listen to an authority figure. He thought he was going to learn how to karate chop and do flying drop kicks on people. He had no interest in learning any of the rest of it.
In this case, karate did NOT help the child become more disciplined and in my opinion, his mother made a huge mistake in not requiring discipline anywhere else.
To me, it didn't matter if it was karate, baseball, cheerleading....
No grades....No go.
They didn't get to choose to behave at something fun as opposed to behaving at school and if my son ever yelled at his teacher, he'd be lucky to see the light of day for a while, let alone a karate mat.
For what it's worth, in the instance I'm referring to, dad wanted to discipline the child and mom wouldn't hear of it.
Let's see.....he went on to get in trouble on a field trip for stealing from another kid, got in trouble for taking off when his parents didn't know where he'd gone, got in trouble for using expletives at school.
Never so much as grounded for anything.

This doesn't have to be a fight between you and your husband.
I would sit your son down and tell him that if karate means anything to him at all, he will quit goofing off at school, quit getting numerous warnings and begin following instructions or else there will be no more karate. The choice is his.
He can't act up at school and get other things he wants. That's just the way it goes. One more chance...and how it works out is up to him.
There's no point in you spending money on karate lessons or anything else if he doesn't earn it by at least paying attention in school.

That's just how I see it.
I hope you get some great responses.

Didn't you just start the karate? Didn't school just start? Surely he's got a new teacher and new classmates. That's a lot of change for him to get used to at one time. I don't know your son or if he has any past history of behavior issues, but to me being reprimanded once for excessive talking and once for not following directions is really not too bad for a boy who's just coming off of summer vacation. I don't think you can expect his behavior to be perfect, especially at that age. Why don't you sit down with him and come up with a plan. Help him to come up with consequences for what happens for (what I consider) minor infractions being reported from school. Maybe if he gets 2 or 3 bad (minor) marks in a week then he can't go to karate that week. Sure, if he was hitting and fighting I might yank him out of enjoyable activities. However, if you expect karate to help with his behavior then you need to give him time to adjust and learn a little more about it first. I agree with someone else you said to get rid of other activities (TV, games) first. OR, try more positive reinforcement, which has been proven in research studies to work better anyway. You could set a goal of no bad marks in a week (then increase it to 2 or 3, etc.) If he gets no bad marks in a week, then he can rent a special movie or bake a cake, or buy a new book, etc. Maybe your husband could read these responses and that might help him?

I think you need to find another disciplinary tactic. Taking away the activity is defeating the purpose. Take away his video games instead.
LBC

Both my sons are taking karate lessons and I believe karate teaches you some fundamentals of life & relationships, which everyone should know either way. It guides you towards becoming a wholesome being.
I agree with Amanda W that it is yet another type of school your kid needs to be committed about attending. I would encourage you to use positive disciplining with your son ... with rewards & incentives for good behavior. He can get a button or a penny for each good deed, which can later be redeemed for a bigger reward (hopefully not a material reward).
if your husband wants to take away karate lessons, I would educate him what karate is all about. Ask your Sensei if your husband can watch your son during a karate lesson ..... may change his perspective about it.

An activity only helps a child behave if it something they are motivated to participate in. There is nothing wrong with giving him a chance to improve but after that I think you are going to have to follow through on what you told him (otherwise you not only wasted your breath this time you also set a precidence for next time/activity).

I think you should talk to your son and remind him of what is expected and the consequences of not living up to those expectations. I would caution you not to make them so high that he can't reach them or too low that he doesn't have any effort in it. Couldn't hurt to talk to the instructor and tell them that if you son doesn't correct his behavior within the next (whatever amount of time you set) then you will be forced to withdraw from the program for this semester at least.