Sleep Issues 4 Tot Who Shares a Room with a Sibling & Mom, Should I Let Him CIO?

Hi, J.,
I think the whole CIO thing is oversold, and in your case you will have a toddler watching mom not respond with comfort to her younger sibling, so I doubt that is a good strategy. One thing you might not have considered, though, is that the baby is hungry--when my daughter was 2 and crying to nurse every two hours, I found the most marvelous book, Ferber's "Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems" (obnoxious title, but a lifesaver for me with both my kids) which showed me hers was not a sleep problem but a feeding one. Once she went to bed with a tummy full of food she liked (I started feeding her cereal at night, introducing new foods at midday when she was less cranky), she slept through soundly! An 8PM bedtime when you guys are only together from 6:30 is not late--but it sounds like the routine is working for you, it's just the suck-and-sleep thing that's not. I also used to sing a lullaby while my daughter nursed before bed, and I could get away with humming it a little to her if she woke up--she associated the song with the comfort of nursing, and that put her back to sleep. Considering I nursed her at night till she was over 3, it also made weaning much easier--we just weaned to a lullaby.
Good luck!

well it sounds a lot like he's wanting you for emotional comfort instead of being hungry. he hasn't seen you all day and doesn't get to spend much time with you before bed. Don't feel guilty though...you are doing what you can and have to to take care of them. With that being said if you choose to let him CIO then you might want to consider making it a fun even for your daughter and let her "camp out" in the living room with you until your son learns to sleep through the night.
My son is coming up on one year and I was getting up anywhere from 2 to 8 times a night and I was beat down and exhausted until one mother (not from this site) told me to give him a bath in epsom salts and lavender bath water... and then give him a baby massage. Close the door. I was skeptical... considering the only advice even my pediatrician gave me was to keep trying CIO or that I must just have an active baby. Really? you went to school for how long to tell me that?? Gimme my money back! I digress... so the first night i shut the door and he went to sleep. He woke 3 times but to me it was still a step in the right direction. The next night I did as she said... and he went right to bed and only woke twice. Then he moved his bed time (which was at 5:30 because I had read the Healthy Sleep Habits book and was trying to follow that rubbish) and he now sleeps through the night because I moved his bedtime almost 2 hours later and I'm not having to get up at 4:30am anymore. It was a win win for us. You might want to give it a try. Magnesium (which is what the epsom salts are) helps with relaxation and sleep.

I think that at this point he does need to stop nursing him to sleep so that he learns to put himself to sleep. If he is doing this then he will be able to put himself back to sleep when he wakes during the night. There are many different ways to achieve this, but CIO is by far the fastest. I think that this would be impossible to do with you and your daughter in the room though. So, hopefully your daughter could stay with a friend or relative for a few nights. If not, you should both plan on sleeping in the living room for several nights. In my experience the other child rarely wakes when one is crying (it's weird but they just do not have the same "radar" that we do). You might consider getting a white noise machine to help drown out the crying. Also, you should get your son a new blanket or stuffed animal be his "special" sleeping friend.

He sounds like a great sleeper to me! He sleeps through the night once in your bed! Mine didn't do that until well past age 2. Congrats on nursing and I'd suggest you keep it up. Why not just let him sleep in your bed and forget about the crib since that's what works? CIO is traumatic for everyone and it does not always work! Although it's inconvenient for us moms, babies do need our presence and comfort for many years. He'll want independence soon enough (my daughter now age 5 wants little to do with me, and she was such a "clingy" one i.e. made her attachment needs well known!!)

Good luck and enjoy your children!

I don't know the answer, but will tell you what I do when a child in my childcare wakes during naptime. I simply go to them and pat them, saying "shh" or quietly telling them they need a little more rest time. It usually takes less than a minute for the child to go back to sleep and they will then sleep until they are rested and it's time to get up. I have found that my attitude is a key. I used to get frustrated when a child woke, because naptime is when I'm trying to catch up on some things I need to do but can't when the children are active. I think children sense our frustration and that makes it harder to calm them. I'm sure you feel some of that frustration as you are trying to catch up on your housework. You may have to "psyche" yourself into being calm before you go to him when he wakes up. It may mean having to set priorities in what has to be done and what can wait until tommorrow.

Hi-when my son was young we lived in a one bedroom and had a very similar situation with the nursing, night waking, and working lots. We chose to have him sleep with us and didn't do COI for similar reasons as you stated. Nighttime was really our time to connect and still is in mnay ways (he 's 7 now). We also nursed until he was almost 3. But, the waking up in the middle of the night started killing me. So, we started to stop the middle of the night feedings by doing a calendar countdown where we used stickers to mark the days until no more wake up nursing. Once the night arrived we did extra cuddles before nursing to sleep. He was already in our bed so when he woke up to nurse I would pat his back or just roll away from him ( he used to reach out to find me). The first time he woke up was the hardest & that lasted a couple of days. After that he stopped waking up during the night. I think because I was gone so much he was using the night to connect with me. So I tried to find other ways to meet that need and him being able to sleep with me helped. It went more smoothly than expected but took time for me to make the decision. Hope that helps! Even though it came with it's own issues, I did like the closenes that came from sharing a room when he was young.

Hi J., first off, props to you for having nursed this long being a single mom,I KNOW that takes a lot of patience and creativity to have the time to do that. :)
I didn't nurse my first son, but co-slept with him and transistioned him to a bed where he slept until he was 18 mths old and we moved him to his own room with a big boy bed.
I nursed my second son until he decided he didn't want it anymore (7 mths)and I co-slept with him until about a month ago when I tried putting him in his own room and he ended up sleeping thru the night.

I am 100% all for co-sleeping for as long as the child needs it.
I am also aware now that a lot of the sounds I made, woke my children up which ecouraged the sleeping together.

is there a way that you can maybe nurse him before you go to bed and than put him in the living room where there won't be so much noise? Just until he gets used to sleeping thru the night?

K.

Dear J.,
First of all God Bless you for raising 2 children on your own. It is very hard work.
I am of the CIO persuasion usually, however I think you need to think what is best for you. So here is a couple things to consider.
Is it easier right now to continue what you are doing, rather than deal with a 3 year old awake as well? This may not be the right time to change his behavior. But if you need this change so you can function better as a mom and worker than here are a couple of thoughts.
Can you spend a few minutes more, before nursing, reading to just him or playing around on the floor? Then he has had a little more time before nursing and bed. Then when he wakes up tell him it is night night time, pat him and go out. My 3 year old and 16 month sleep together and they rarely wake each other up. So she may be fine. If you choose to change this, remember it will take a few days. Don't get discouraged, just stay consistent.
Do you have any other support like family, friends, a play group or a church? You really need support when you are doing this alone. I am the mom of 7 from 14 years to 16 months. Feel free to email me anytime for questions.
By God's Grace,
Stac

The easiest thing for all of you would be to just keep picking him up when he wakes. I know it's a pain, but it's way easier than letting him cry. You're right, the crying would be hard on your older child. It would be hard on all of you.

A few things that might help- 1) Moving your son's crib next to the bed instead of having it on the other side of his sister's bed- at least he'll be closer! 2)...Or having him in the bed with you. I know it's not for everyone, but it really worked for us. 3) I know you don't get enough time for yourself, but try going to bed a little earlier and see if you feel more rested. Try using less of your evenings on chores and more on re charging yourself. You deserve a break.

You're probably exhausted- you're working a lot and caring for two little ones on your own. You want more sleep! Who wouldn't?! I just want to tell you that I think the way you're doing it right now is probably the easiest. He won't be waking up like this forever.

I think it's great that you're still nursing and that you pick your baby up when he cries. He needs that closeness with you. You are an awesome mom and I think you have good instincts. I think you're doing everything right. Good Luck!

J.,
If you have a stuffed animal that is safe enough to have in the bed with him(not something fluffy), I would put one of your shirts (probably the one you wore that day)on the animal and lay it next to him after putting him down. He may feel like you are there with him. Maybe he already has a favorite animal..

I would move one of the children into another room...living room or some other so the older one can sleep while you're going through sleep training with the little one. Start on the weekend so you don't suffer during the work week. Put a fan or sound machine on in the older child's room so they won't be disturbed by the younger one's crying. I'm assuming he's eating solids by now, so make sure he eats well before bedtime. Put your baby into bed early in the evening so you, yourself won't be up the whole night training him. Next, nurse him once, then put him down to sleep. He'll cry for you, but you can visit him and rub his back reassuring him that you are there but you are not going to nurse him. Give him a pacifier and stuffed animal with your t-shirt (your scent)to help calm him and make him feel secure. Leave the room and come back after 20 minutes of crying (it will feel like 1 hr but hang tough, he will not be scarred for life, I promise you). Rub his back and tell him that he needs to go back to sleep. Play some soft music in his room as well, that sometimes helps. Keep revisiting his room every 20 min until he stops crying. I promise you, he will. It may take a few nights of this until he gets used to it, but stick to your guns. I did this with my two and it worked like a charm. Two hardest nights of my life, emotionally, but I'm so glad I didn't give in to my motherly guilt. Good luck.

Hi J.,
I am very amazed that you do as much as you do and are still concerned with your children's happiness! You are a good mama!! Personally, I think you should keep nursing because really, nighttime is the only time he has with you and he won't nurse forever. Also, try the suggestion that someone else gave about putting him next to his sister. I nursed my son until he turned 3 and he now sleeps wonderfully. From my experience, I would not let anyone tell you that if you let him CIO, it will help him in the end. Everyone told me that and I just did what my heart said and in the end, my son is happy and sleeps beautifully!
Good luck!
Sunshine

I am a stanch supporter of the family bed and your son seems to be telling you that he needs more contact. Maybe he would stay asleep in the bed with his sister until he moves into your bed after the last nursing of the night!

I worked full time and had two kids that both nursed at night for years and having a family bed is one of their fondest memories. Follow your heart and good luck!

I just wanted to tell you your doing a GREAT job! First, single mom is difficult enough...AND 2 KIDS makes you so courageous and such a strong good person! I'm in awe of you!
I hope many blessing come your way!

As for the cry it out, try doing it when you first put him down rather than trying to do it the first wake up. You might have better success. It will teach him that it's just night-night time rather than confuse him that mom doesn't want to rescue him (which is what is seems like he is thinking based on your description). I'm sure you have heard, but the first night just sucks! 45 minutes+ of crying, but the second night is cut in half usually and the third night is usually like 5 to 15 minutes and then you should be set. If you do decide to do it, maybe keep your daughter up and explain what your doing? Put her down after he stops?..also maybe start Friday night so the 3 year old can be sleepy at home?...your call. Good luck!

Sounds like you're doing a great job! While we all know that children don't "need" milk at night once they get to a certain age, it sounds like BF has been a wonderful way to calm your son and soothe him. I, too, work full time outside the home and find that evening/night nursing is a wonderful way to connect with my baby and I really enjoyed the same with my elder daughter for her first year.

What I would suggest is trying to de-latch him *slightly before* he falls asleep (but stay near until he falls asleep). Once this starts to work, respond to his cries with first physical contact/comfort then BF if you must. There may be a little bit of crying here or there but he may adapt to find comfort in your proximity rather than from BF. Then work on moving away from him and offering verbal reassurance. This is the approach we used with our eldest daughter (we co-sleep, but she has had to learn how to sleep by herself for a good chunk of time prior to our bedtime) and it really worked.

My kids share a room and I have had to use the CIO method. But I'm not sure how well that will work for you with you sleeping in the same room. My suggestion would be that if you want to try the CIO method that you try sleeping on the couch until he figures out how to comfort himself and put himself to sleep. I would try to start weaning him as well, he's old enough and it sounds like he may be using you as a comfort (my daughter did that with me and it made for some very long nights). If he's dry and fed, he really needs to learn how to self sooth, or he is going to have some real sleep issues later on. Your daughter is old enough that if she wakes up you can explain to her that she needs to go back to bed. Eventually she will learn how to tune the crying out in her sleep (mine did, and she's a light sleeper). It shouldn't take very long to get your son comfortable putting himself to sleep, you just have to be very consistant. You could check out the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child.

As for weaning, since you are only nursing at night, you could try just stopping and giving him a bottle. I know that your not supposed to give babies a bottle in the crib, but it's the only way I can get my son to put himself to sleep. I give him his bottle, lay him down, and he eventually puts himself to sleep (it took some CIO for a couple weeks though). After he is asleep I go in and take the bottle out).

Hope this helps.

Although you think you have a little boy, you have a baby primate. They are meant to sleep next to another warm body and alarm bells go off for them physically (waking and crying) when they feel alone. CIO could work to teach him to ignore the signals from his body that he needs warmth and breathe next to him, but it sounds like it will just create more stress in your situation. Could you put him down in your bed? Having your scent or pillow close could help him sleep better.
Sorry, I studied anthropology in school and spent a semester observing chimps. I CAN'T believe how similar they are to our little human babes!

I would at least try not to nurse him at all or wean it down. He is used to being nursed at bedtime and last thing he remembers is that he fell asleep at your breast. Try to put him in his crib and let him fall asleep on his own. That is the most common for babies to fall asleep while nursing and wakes up and remember that he was at your breast or bottle. That is what my son used to do at bottle. So I make sure that he stay awake before I put him to bed at night. Try it out and good luck with that. I know it is very hard to be a single mom of two kids. I've tried that with 4 kids and it is a heck of alot of work. God Bless you and your kids.

I am a single mama of 5 and my 17mo is still nursing. I would try getting rid of the night light/turning it off when you lay the baby down after your daughter is asleep. I know money is touch, but you need to cut down that day car if you can. Live like a pauper if you have to till hes older. As long as hes nursing this is how it will be :(

Good Luck they outgrow it I promise :)

Hi J.,
First of all my applause to you for raising two kids on your own -- that's a lot of work! So, I can understand how you may be tired, still I want to support you in attending to your baby's needs, rather than letting him CIO. From so many point of views, it is not good for babies, and him being older, it will be only harder on him and on the sister. You stated it yourself that this maybe his way of feeling close to you and getting nourishment and time with mommy, he misses out during the day. You can just hang on there, it will pass. From what you described he is a pretty good sleeper, if he sleeps through the major part of the night. A lot of kids MUCH older than him do not sleep through the night yet, of course their parents never let them to CIO. Finally, it is very tough for the parents, and I know it first hand, I have twins, who sometimes sleep through the night and others do not but still it is not good for the babies to be left alone and unresponded to. Their needs will not go away by this, just simply they will get the message that they are not going to get responded too and that are not to rely on the "others" for nourishing and meeting their needs.

That's a hard one. In my opinion (and experience with my own) you probablly need to let him CIO so you all can get sleep. But I know you don't want to involve your older one in that. Here are some ideas: Do you have any family or even good friends around who would be willing to host sleepovers witgh your daughter for a couple of nights? If not, maybe gear up to have him CIO on the weekend, talk to your daughter about how it's going to be (That her brother will probablly be waking you guys up all night). Or can you and your daughter have a "campout" in the living room for a couple of nights? "They" say it can be done in 3 nights...hopefully it will work for you as well...good luck, and worst-case scenario, it will happen on it's own, eventually...