Speak up or Shut Up?

If they've grown up in the house with grandma, then they've probably never been asked to do more than what they are doing and, being young, they really have NO CLUE how difficult it is on their grandmother. Sad. I agree with the others that you should say something, but in a helpful, non-judgmental way. I think you should say it like Mynewnickname suggests. IMHO, that's perfect.

I would say something to them. "Hey, Grandma is really tired and stressed with having to take care of Grandpa. It would really be helpful if you could cook dinner and take on some of the housework so she can rest. Maybe work out a schedule so she can just focus on Grandpa. Or maybe if you don't have time to help out with the housework, Merry Maids charges $100 a week to come in and clean. What do you think the best option will be to help Grandma?"

I have had all of my 4 siblings move in and out of my parents house and see they do next to nothing. My younger sister doesn't live there anymore, but she is paid to clean the house - the house is never CLEAN. It rubs me the wrong way, but it's not my business. When my parents get tired of it all they will stop it.

This has gone on for 11 years since I moved out and trust me when I say, me saying something does NO good at all on any front. I make clear it would not be okay in my home, but their home is NOT my home and I really have no place to say anything.

I think you can speak up if you do it in a specific an non-judgemental way.

My perspective is this - I am an advisor to a group of women age 18-22ish. They are very well meaning, but can also be pretty clueless. If they've never had to cook or clean for themselves, it probably doesn't even occur them that they should be helping out. It might seem obvious to you, but not to them.

So, help them out by being specific. Something along the lines of hey - I noticed that your grandma has a shopping list on the fridge. It's really hard for her to go out and do the shopping. Any chance you could go to the grocery store once a week and pick up the items on the list? Or, things are really tough for grandma right now. Do you think that you could each volunteer to make dinner once a week? She's too proud to ask, but I know it would mean so much to her.

Now, if they've been asked and flat out refused and had a bad attitude, that is a different story. In that case, I think there is nothing you can do.

I think you should speak up. I don't know why telling young adults they need to help around the house should "blow up" into anything.

Yes, speak your mind. "It's shameful that you two girls are doing nothing when all the other adults in the house are working their butts off or dying. You need to step up and help out." That's what I'd say, anyway.

Personally, I've always loved it when other adults spoke up with my kids. Usually they hear it better from people other than their parents. A village is really useful.

Hi S., it IS difficult to understand/accept the dynamic of someone else's household when, given the same circumstance, we would do it entirely different, isn't it?

If what you want from this is a little help, I see no reason why you can't ask ask the girls for it yourself.

"Hey (girl), look I noticed (this particular thing) needs to be done. I'd do it myself, but I have to (go to work), would you mind (doing what ever the thing is)?"

And only ONE thing at a time. Next time ask them both, in that way....no judgement, just asking for help, see?

:)

Sorry this is long but please take time and read it, I do have some good advice and maybe help you to convey to the others in the household.

They will retaliate on MIL so this is a fine line that you have to consider.

I don't know what I'd say except I don't mind burning bridges with people like this and I'd flat out tell them off right there in front of MIL, FIL, and God himself.

They live like this because your MIL allows it. She takes care of them and they accept it. It's her problem and you see how it's taking its toll on her. I understand how awful they are.

I took a class at OSU when I was in college called Death and Dying. Chuck Edgley taught the class. It was a Sociology class that showed a lot of the stress and mourning that happens when someone dies.

There were basically 4 areas.

1. Expected death at an expected time

2. Unexpected death and an expected time

3. Unexpected death at an unexpected time

4. Expected death at an unexpected time

1. Someone has a terminal illness and is given 4 weeks to live, they die at 4 weeks.

2. Parents are supposed to grow elderly then pass away after a long long happy life.

3. A child passes away from an accident. A sibling dies in an accident. A parent dies from a sudden heart attack or stroke. Totally unexpected, a phone rings and they're gone.

4. The hardest one of all. A person has a terminal illness and is given 4 weeks to live. They deteriorate and wither away but just don't die. They are sicker and sicker and sicker but their body hangs on. They are still there needing total complete care 6 months later. You are exhausted, beyond all stress with everyone coming and saying their goodbyes and then coming back a few months later to visit again then the person is still there even after 9 months, withering away and sicker and sicker.

The caregiver has guilt over their contrasting emotions. I'll miss them horribly when they're gone and they're still here and I'm so happy I still have them. Then when it's the middle of the night and they're having to get up and clean a bed full of poop and puke and having to lift that person out of it all and putting them in a wheelchair covered in towels and strapping them in. Then taking them to the shower, washing them, scraping poop and puke off their bodies then off the chair and stuff. After that they have to change the sheets and put them back in bed hoping they'll not do that again tonight so you can just get some rest for tomorrow. Then you have to go start a wash load and run it at least 2-3 times to get all the debris out of the items. Cleaning the washer out between each load.

It's time consuming and draining of a person's spirit. The conflict of wishing they'd just die and be free of their pain and their dying body and you just want to get some rest for a change....and it goes on.

When they finally do die you have guilt over those wishes they'd just go ahead and die. You have the deep dark secret that you wished they just go ahead and die and you can't tell anyone because that's a horrible feeling to have but you did have it. So they live with that guilt. AND they miss their family member, who they were before they got sick.

So she needs support and love and compassion. Is Hospice helping? They'd get those in that household moving I think.

Where is your husband in this? He is allowing his mother to get worn out and now you, because his brother and the BILs 2 daughters are lazy? Maybe the sisters aren't able psychologically to confront the fact that Grandpa is dying and that Grandma is worn out. The BIL and the granddaughters are mooching of the grandparents? Not contributing in any way?

Honestly, I think the problem is beyond you right now. This is a family dynamic that is pretty ingrained. Your husband can talk to his brother about the physical strain on Mom which is now being transferred to you, and about the financial impact of a cleaning service.

Grandpa needs hospice care, Grandma needs respite care, and yes the rest of them need a wake-up call. Talk to your FIL's physician about referrals to in-home care from a hospice service or any licensed home care service. See what Medicare or his supplemental insurance will cover, and see what's in their budget for non-covered expenses. The care can include medical help but also personal care (bathing, etc.), light housekeeping (laundry, changing sheets), meals, and companionship. All levels of service are acceptable.

You can get BIL to step in to help financially but make absolutely sure that the daughters understand that the help is there ONLY for Grandpa and Grandma, and not for cleaning up THEIR stuff or cooking their meals or washing their dishes.

I wouldn't get just a housekeeper - I think your FIL and MIL probably need more, and qualified home care would provide that as well as wake up the rest of the family to the existence of a real problem. Sometimes having a "stranger" in the house can make people behave better.

Maybe when you are there you could ask the two nieces "Hey, can I get a hand with this? I would really like to help your grandmother lighten her load". Maybe they just need a nudge.

Ugh. Tough O..
I think if I was in your shoes, I might say something to my BIL, or have my husband say something to him like "you know Bill, Mary is always willing to help mom out, but the other day, she was asked to sit with Dad so she could get out a bit, only to find Susan, Sally, AND Jim all at the house already! What gives?"

gah! it's SO HARD to see this degree of disintegration in a family unit not yours, where it's so hard to interject. and pros and cons, certainly, to speaking up or shutting up.
it's not like MIL isn't living what she's created. if BIL only does what he's asked, the two young women are used to being catered to, and MIL has a tendency to play the martyr, they've already got their cadenced dance of dysfunction going and your alarm bell of reality won't be welcomed.
but since you're being dragged in anyway, i think i'd HAVE to at least give 'er a whirl. and i'm thinking back to my own late teens and early 20s as a basically nice but also clueless young woman. my attitude was 'when it bothers me enough i'll clean it' but my tolerance for a pigsty went way beyond most folks'. but in my case it was always my own pigsty, so i guess it doesn't quite apply.
i think you can say something, though, at least if you can do so without a background snarl in your voice (which will be hard.) 'hey, druscilla and priscilla! listen, i can get over here and help out when i can, but i'm wondering if you've picked up on how exhausted and stressed out grandma is. you guys are great about picking up after yourselves. i wonder if you could push it out a little, and take over the kitchen duties? if you all keep a running list on the fridge as things run out, you can grab what's needed at the grocery store. and taking turns cooking and doing the dishes will be a HUGE help to grandma, and free her up to spend what time she can with grandpa. we really need to make sure that she can make the most of the rest of their time together.'
if it's presented inoffensively, hopefully it won't blow up. if they're so sensitive that it'll blow up regardless, then they're not clueless, they're already aware that they're users and don't want to be called on it.
my MIL is a martyr too, and i've done handstands trying to find the right balance of being there for her and being drowned in 'no one can help' yet 'i'm managing just fine, we don't need a nurse/housekeeper/any help at all.' my current strategy is to be there as much as i realistically can, and not apologize or let myself be guilt-tripped beyond that. it's more complicated with you as you have all the freeloaders to handle. so be firm about limiting your care and help to FIL and MIL only, not things that the others could and should be doing. it's great to stay with your FIL so your MIL can get some time away, or to fix a meal for the two of them, but don't clean the kitchen or cook for the whole shebang.
if a housekeeper is needed, i'd go to the BIL and tell him you expect him to pony up.
there's nothing more stressful than the end-of-days. i hope the fam steps up, and that MIL gets what she needs. i can't help but wonder if the angst over dinner and missing ingredients doesn't help, at least on one level, to distract her from her grief. but that doesn't let the lazy ones off the hook!
khairete
S.

The next time everyone is in the same room why don't you say "Mom, you are working so hard looking after dad, why don't you let Mary and Jane do the cooking and the cleaning. They are great girls and I am sure they would love the opportunity to help you."

Good for you for stepping in and helping out! They are very lucky to have you.

Just went through the passing of my Grandma, and my Grandpa reluctantly let hospice in. He didn't want to, but it had to be done. They were very helpful in relieving some of the pressure of the care. I can't stress enough that if possible invite them in for an assessment or to at least speak with your MIL.

And I think "Mynewnickname" has good advice. It can't hurt to politely ask the girls for specific help. Or ask them to tackle a few chores. If they do, great. If not, well, at least you asked and can feel good about doing all that you can.

Having a deployed husband amidst all this cannot be easy. Hang in there!

It is your brother in law's responsibility to talk to them, not you. Of course they don't see any reason to be grateful, they live with their dad, he just happens to live with his parents. I mean say dad lived in a house and the house wasn't being cleaned he would then get on his daughters.

So if no one is cleaning the house get on your brother in law and if he doesn't want to do it himself then he can get his daughters to pitch in.

Speak up to your husband, not to them. If he can't/won't intervene, then hire a maid service and make meals for her and try to be the daughter she deserves.

I was in this exact situation - home hospiced my FIL at my home. I decided to shut up about it. At least to the person who was doing nothing. I did vent to my hubby about it. But I felt that saying something was not the best thing to do for the future well being of the family. So I shut up - and still don't regret doing so. But I will say, there are days when I think about everything that I did with never so much as a thank you and I think to myself - boy, what a piece of work, and how selfish. But I also am proud of myself - of the gift I gave my FIL and my MIL and my husband.

Just remember, you are not doing this for you, you are doing it for your MIL and your husband. She obviously appreciates you or she wouldn't ask for your help. Help now and just deal with it. Is there a BFF you can complain to. That's what I did - vented to my BFF. It helped tremendously.

Both. Try speaking up or having your husband do so. If nothing changes and/or the dynamic worsens, shut up.

My in laws are in similar situation. My SIL, her husband, and their four children moved in over a year ago. It was only supposed to be a few months so they could get back on their feet. It has now morphed into “we will move out when the two teenagers graduate” which means at least another two years of the insanity. My in laws had just bought their brand new retirement home which they intentionally bought small. Fast forward to today and it's enough to make you run down the street like a crazy person. My FIL has advanced dementia and is a handful to care for. But no one does anything. Every single chore falls on my MIL, including caring for the four kids. She is now the de facto babysitter 24-7. Two of the four children are teenagers and act age appropriate and then some. The two younger ones are elementary school aged wild heathens. My SIL is an awful mother and is abusive to all of her children. My MIL winds up intervening because it gets so bad (fist fights, screaming matches, spankings that morph into beatings, etc.). Then there is the house which is trashed; my MIL had to rip all the carpet out and put down tile because the carpet was beyond disgusting. No one helps cook, clean, mow the yard, etc. My SIL doesn’t contribute any money to the household which drives us insane. They are busy draining my in laws, while living like king.

My husband has talked until his is blue in the face and listened to endless conversations from both my MIL and my SIL. No side is willing to make a change and so the madness continues. We are now at the shut up point. Good luck.

If I were the one picking up the slack, I would damn sure say something to the lie-abouts.

As Mynewnickname says (and says well), these "girls" need specific directions. When you are in the house, paste on a smile and direct them. Ask them to do very specific and clear tasks, and by a specific time. If you need to make out that shopping list yourself and give it to MIL to give to them, do so. It's kind of like dealing with young kids, actually - they are lost if you just say "Clean up" but need instructions like "Pick up the red doll and put it in the blue box." It's sad that these adult women need to be thought of that way, but it's true.

I want to add: These are your in-laws. You don't say a word about your husband's thoughts on all this. His family, his obligation to speak up, not just yours. He needs to talk to his brother, calmly and as non-judgmentally as possible, and say that their mom needs more help than she's getting.

I was going to say what Wild Woman said.

Get a price for a maid service to come by once or twice a week. figure out how much each person will need to contribute.

And the food issue is definitely their deal..

Maybe you pick up a meal or 2 for mom and take it to her during the week, the others can fend for themselves. OR have them start paying rent and the bills to live there. all of that money could go towards housekeepers and food.

Those layabouts need a talking to. That is shameful.

Your husband could also speak up about this.

If anyone is going to say anything it needs to be the MIL.
She might just want her family around her so they are a distraction from the impending death.
You and I would perhaps evict these people but MIL is not seeing it like that.
So - you need to limit your offers of help to just helping relieve MIL's stress while not helping to cater to/enable the adult lay-abouts she keeps around her.
Take just MIL out for a meal once in awhile.
Is there an hospice which might be able to help her out?

I would speak up. They are not girls, they are young women. I would talk to them like adults - how their grandfather is actually doing, the stress on MIL, and what needs to be done, collectively, to make things better for MIL and FIL. Actually, perhaps have DH speak to his brother first, because he brought his daughters there, right? And he could do as much as they. It should not be only the women.

If they don't take care of FIL, that's fine. Not everyone is good at that sort of thing. But the expectation should be laid out that then MIL never does dishes or takes out the trash or any number of things that need to be done and could easily be done with 3 able people in the house. You and DH may also need to talk to her about how she needs to expect more from BIL and company. If she wants to make dinner, that's fine (my DH loves to cook) but she should not then not expect them to clear the table afterward. You can also say, "I want to get MIL a housekeeper, but it seems like an unnecessary expense when you live here. Would you rather pitch in more or help pay for someone to do the cleaning?"

BUT in the end, if MIL does not want to make them change, then your focus should be FIL and let them fuss at each other unless there is a serious health concern or something.

I think you could say something without getting yourself in hot water if you go to the girls directly and suggest they be more helpful, but in a loving nonjudgmental manner.

I also grew up in a home with adults who would rather do it themselves than delegate or ask for what they needed. And I, being a person who has never struggled to ask for what I needed , was not mature enough to see that just because they didn't ask does not mean they did not need.

I finally figured out my mom in a family counseling session and discovered that she would only ever act exasperated and expect people to jump in to help, but she could never ask. When I learned this I felt terrible that I had spend my teenage years so unhelpful. I mean terrible. I was helpful from that enlightening moment on.

So with some compassion, and kindness in your voice, perhaps you could tell the girls that though they don't really appreciate how hard it is to care for aging family and run a house, one day they will. And when they do, they will feel terrible for not being more proactive and helpful to dad and grandma.

It may not do a hill of beans worth of good, but I do think if you handle yourself appropriately, you might be able to get through to them without ruffling a lot of feathers.

And yes, be specific with your suggestions on how they could help, "do the shopping, clean the bathrooms" etc.

Why is she cooking for them? Ask her to stop cooking. Ask her IN FRONT OF these young women. Tell them all that the stress on her is enormous and she is doing caretaking for a dying man. She should not be the caretaker of anyone else in the house. If the sh*t hits the fan, TOO BAD.

Forget about the house being spotless. It won't be. These gals will just mess it up over and over.

Goodness this sounds like my mother in law. She had people come and well, leach off of her for years (my father in law was in a coma for six years). He died last year and she has no job, and they still come and leach off of her. She has never said no, complains about it to my husband and other sister in law, then lets them do this. She even moved with my father in law while he was alive, twice and they all tag along.so sadly, it is probably in a way encouraged. She simply doesn't want to be alone and while extremely uncomfortable not enough to stop it. So, I learned never mind what we were able to do (since we were far we mostly sent money as we couldn't visit often) and felt like we did some of our part.Yes, FIL in your case is a stressor, but the others are the big stressor and no one but her can do something about it. You can only do so much.Good luck, and if you can try to not worry about it. And in saying something, it is not necessarily going to help as I have found out in my life. People are not always loyal even if we are.