SWH: Christmas Eve with In-laws

My suggestion - lots of wine or perhaps a nice Xanax!

Sometimes, holidays with the family are super stressful and you just can't get out of it. There is nothing you can do. So just sit back, relax (see suggestions above) and know that it will be over and you'll be back home soon.

If my brother brought his daughter's to our families house and they were not being parented by my brother....they would be parented by ME.
Don't care if people's feelings are hurt or if they are angry. If they can't do their job then I will step in and do it for them.
L.

what would happen if you just started telling him yourself?

bobby, get off the barstool. that's not safe and you know better.

bobby, quit acting like a 2 year old, no one wants to be around you when you act like that.

bobby....etc etc.

you get the point. and of course, i say this assuming you would also be praising him for good behavior, showing him affection, and enjoying when he's behaving himself...just like you would with your own kids.

dunno. probably would p*** a lot of people off but might be worth a shot lol. he acts this way because he knows no one will say anything/do anything. he already respects you somewhat because of previous boundaries you've set. so try setting some? i don't know. it's really about whether it would be worth it to you to possibly step on some toes, in order to corral this lil guy.

but in my experience if you lay down the law with unruly kids, they tend to respect it. it's just getting around the adults in this circumstance.

i agree with the response below - i TOTALLY would have had something to say if a child HIT me. he'd know i was NOT happy. and it d*** sure wouldn't happen again. parents or no parents.

I feel sorry for you, but I feel more sorry for your nephew. It's a few hours out of your life. It's a lifetime for him because the adults in his life are so inept. I don't know if you can find it in your heart to change your way of thinking and understand what a mess this child's life is. But try to. If he hits you, you should not be looking to THEM to deal with it. Treat him as if he were your own. Take his hands in yours firmly and say "Hands are for helping, not hurting! We do NOT hit." Be firm with him. When you see him do something positive, praise him for it. Give him hugs. I wonder if he gets any at home.

This boy will live a troubled life if there is no intervention in his life. He may be doing well in kinder, and he may not be. His mother may not be telling the truth about his school experience because of being embarrassed that he is in trouble. You could be the one consistent person in the family with him. Consistent in loving him, consistent in expectations of good behavior, consistent in telling him what he needs to hear, regardless of the other inconsistent adults around him. You could end up being his favorite aunt, so to speak. But only if you aren't showing him disapproval all the time, a scowl on your face, and an obvious wish to be away from him.

When my son was young, he adored his older male cousin who was 4 years older. My son got on his nerves because of the difference in maturity levels. One summer, I heard my nephew say that he was going to try to be more understanding of his cousin. I was glad to hear it. I know that your situation is harder, but even without all the discipline problems, a big gap in years can cause problems.

Good luck,
Dawn

I find it hard to believe that with your nephews parents (2 adults), your in-laws (2 adults), you and your hubby (2 adults) and 2 kids that are roughly twice his age (8 people) that one 5 1/2 yr old gets to run wild and call the shots and spoils the entire evening - year after year after year.
I guess you've BEEN dealing with it as best you can.
Only you can determine when you've had enough.
I think I might have started pulling away from these gatherings sooner than this and visit with the in-laws before/after holidays when you can see then without your nephews family always being there at the same time.
It might be that he eventually grows out of it or maybe his parents are ignoring some possible ADHD or they are just total jerks as far as parenting goes.
That doesn't mean you should have to have your holidays held hostage to this child.
Maybe you and hubby can agree beforehand when you've reached 3 strikes (you and he count and agree on them), you just gather your kids and go home - and let the in-laws and nephews parents either be shocked at YOUR behavior (more likely) or maybe they can agree one 5 yr old is out of line (not likely).

Oh, how I feel your pain!! My niece has two of these little monsters and she sits there and says/does NOTHING when they act up or are running around like wild animals. I've actually talked to her about it and told her she needs to reel them in but nothing ever changes. I cannot stand to be around them!!! This sounds terrible but I am sooooooooooo glad she and her kids will actually be out of town this Christmas - it might be the first pleasant family Chrismas I've had in years!!!

That being said - you might have to just grin and bear it to keep peace in the family - and maybe just cut your visit short. It is, after all, just the one evening. For me, I would always talk to my two kids before we gathered and just explained to them that they could just stay by me and their dad when these other two would act up. Sometimes it actually got to a point where MY kids would be correcting HER kids and trying to get them to settle down.

It would be nice if maybe your husband could talk to his brother but I'm sure it would have absolutely no effect. Parenting is a very touchy subject and I have found most parents are totally oblivious to their children's misbehavior!!

For me, if I see kids misbehaving anymore, I just say something to the kid loud enough for the parent to hear. I'm at an age now that I don't care about offending the parents - I am entitled to enjoying myself without having to deal with someone's little monsters!!!

I was at a restaurant just the other day and two mothers each had a child running around - they're busy with their conversation and totally oblivious - that is until I gave one of them the "death stare" and said "seriously?"- needless to say, they exited the restaurant pretty quickly!!!

Good luck!!!!

I'm with Laura. I have no problem telling kids to behave if their parents aren't dealing with them. Stand up for yourself and your family.

Each "event" needs to stop. Hitting, climbing, rudeness.

Every time he hits you or anyone in your family, grab his hands and tell him YOU WILL NOT HIT ME/MY HUSBAND/MY CHILDREN!

If he climbs, I would just grab him and put him on the floor and tell him NO.

Overall, I would simply be quick to correct his behavior and tell him to stop. Even back up his parents. "Your mommy told you to stop. You stop right now."

For rudeness: "I don't allow people to talk to me/my kids that way. If you want to talk to us, you have to do so nicely."

And if your in-laws say anything, simply say "I'm not going to allow a 5 year old to make my day miserable just because everyone is too scared to say something."

Don't let this little terror ruin your day. Be the parent. Show his parents how it's done.

I agree with Dawn, but don't think you should be having to deal with this on a holiday. Perhaps you could intervene on behalf of your nephew other times throughout the year. Is there a way you could shorten your visit on Christmas Eve? Maybe start a new tradition with your husband and children that would require you to arrive later and leave earlier at your in-laws' home? Your family should be able to relax and enjoy the holiday, and if your BIL and SIL are not going to raise their child to be pleasant to be around, your family shouldn't have to suffer through the holiday.

I think by not saying anything you are just contributing to the environment of permissiveness.
I'm not saying you should punish or discipline him yourself, clearly his parents *should* be doing that, but there's nothing inappropriate about saying something when his behavior is dangerous or disrespectful.
Billy, you need to get off that stool, it's not safe.
Billy, that hurt, you can't hit me, we don't hit each other, that's not nice.
At least it's just a single meal, and not a whole weekend. I suggest you drink a large glass of wine (or two) to help you get through it!

Time to make a new tradition!

I am sorry you get so annoyed. I think it is safe to say no one has a perfect family. All I can say is atleast you have in laws. My husband has no family. I have a wonderful family but like you I often get quite annoyed with a few of them. But they are my family. This is your husbands family. I know a lot of people going through much worse for x mass. Loss of a job death of a family member. And you are complaining bc a 5 yr old annoys you? I see more and more daughter in laws complaining of their inlaws. It really upsets me bc you are so lucky to have them. Even with the flaws. One day you will have a son n law or daughter in law so I hope you are perfect.

That is hard! It is unfair to you and your kids to spend a "holiday" where you aremiserable or forced to entertain someone else's unruly child.

When my youngest was born, my neice who was then four made me insane. She was ALL OVER my baby. Constantly. Practically laying on him if she could get to him. My BIL and SIL would just smile and be like "Oh she just loves babies" Great! Get her a doll! She'd PULL on his legs and arms if I was standing up with him, trying to get to him. Finally I got so sick of it, Id firmly take her hand and tell her Do NOT pull or yank on this baby. You are going to hurt him. Id avoid this child like the plague. Yes, not her fault, but it kept her occupied and out of her parents hair so they did nothing.
If Xmas eve is that unpleasant, Id tell your husband that this year you're going to open your mouths and say something to BIL and SIL and they can either do something about their kids behavior, or next year you're staying home. Being family doesnt give them the ok to make your holiday miserable!

maybe my family is odd BUT when we go to family parties we dont interact with our own kids much either. we all interact with eachothers kids more because we havent seen them as much, and the kids all go off to play why the adults enjoy adult conversation and enjoy acting like fools=)
if the stray kid runs in for a minute anyone helps and then the kid runs off to play with the zillion cousins
if it was M. and it was my niece, i'd have her sleepover the day before, and like you said after 1 hour he's fine so then bring him to the party the next day. If your husband can get him in line in one hour why are you dreading the whole day over 1 hour?
and lik other people said if he only takes gentle reminding you're his aunt, and can do it
x get off that stool
her x you're going in time out if you dont get down

How about giving him an iPod for Christmas with a few pre-loaded movies? That way you can put headphones on him during the appetizers and won't hear from him again until dessert.

Well, for me the answer depends. If he is just being annoying in general, then I would just not say anything. If the child hit me, you can be damn sure that I would have said something to the parents. I would give them the opportunity to handle it and would do it myself if they chose not to. If the child is doing something unsafe, then I would say something to him. If the child did something to my kids, then I would say something. Basically, any time his actions affected me beyond just general annoyance, I would say something.

Yikes! I can relate. I have a nephew whose behavior really impacted the emotional tone of family gatherings. My sister had difficulties setting limits with him so he would hit, yell, and kick anyone and everyone. My kids have been on the receiving end of his aggression. When he mistreated one of my own, I would intervene and say something to him. Good news is over time it has gotten much better. He has matured. Hang in there and try and enjoy your holiday inspite of the chaos. Also, continue to be a loving presence in his life and remind your self you get to go home and get away from it all! If all else fails, have another glass of spiked eggnog :)

I agree with Dawn. I feel bad that your holidays are so stressful for you, but I feel worse for your nephew. Are you SURE he has no sensory/autism issues? He sounds quite a bit like my son, who is on the very high end of the autism spectrum--so that his behavior doesn't necessary LOOK like autism to an outsider, it just looks like bad behavior. But in reality, he has sensory/autism issues, and we're working very hard to help him learn to cope better in group situations. Even though your SIL and BIL look like they might be overly permissive with their son (and maybe they are), is it possible there's something you're not seeing? For example, with our son, we were told to focus on correcting two key behaviors at a time and ignoring others. If we tried to correct ALL of his negative behaviors at once, it would overwhelm him. So others think we're just ignoring bad behavior because we're lazy, but really we're concentrating on two key behaviors that we need to modify. Maybe your SIL and BIL are doing the same?

Another thought is that they may parent differently when other people are around. They may feel very judged by the other adults in your family, and that may affect their parenting. I know that's the case with my husband and his family. It is much easier for us to parent our son at home, where there aren't others interfering. When we're at a family gathering, it's much more difficult, and I'm sure it looks to outsiders as if we just don't know what we're doing.

Because you say he responds to structure and rules well, I'm thinking there may be a touch of autism/sensory issues there--it's at least a possibility. So I agree that you should set rules with him as they affect you and your family. That is, if he hits you, respond as you would with your own child. If he's bugging you, respond as you would with your own child. But if he's doing things that really don't much affect you, just try to take a deep breath and ignore it. His parents may not be dealing with him they way you'd like, but they may be doing the best they can.

I don't know--just throwing out an alternate opinion. He may really just be an undisciplined brat...but my gut says there may be more to it than that, based on how you're describing him.

You contradict yourself. First you say that when other people with kids are around, your BIL and SIL ignore the kid and leave his management to others and then you say you are afraid to say something to him while his parents/grandparents are there and then you say grandpa gets fed up with it too.

I firmly believe that you need to make this child respect you. Even if he doesn't respect his parents or grandparents you can sure as heck make sure that he treats you with respect.

When he hit you, what did you do? I suspect nothing. Personally, I NEVER allow any child, mine or someone else's to raise a hand to me. I very quickly grab the raised arm, not gently but not gripping hard enough to make any marks, look the child directly in the eyes, and in my most stern voice tell that child "You will NEVER hit me! Not in play; not in anger; NEVER!" And then I walk away from the child. I have NEVER had to do that more than once with any child. After that, just the "look" will suffice.

I suggest you do the same with your nephew. As soon as you or he get there and/or he starts acting up, take him aside and let him know in no uncertain terms that he is NOT going to ruin your holiday and he IS going to behave. Then see if you can get your children to engage him in some sort of appropriate play. If he plays nice, fine. If not, playtime with him is over and your girls can go about doing what they want to do and ignore your nephew. The more he is ignored, the better behaved he will be because he'll want to be part of things.

Good luck! Hopefully things will get better as he gets older.

After the drama with in-laws I talked to my husband and we actually do not see any of them around the holidays. We refuse to put our children and us through these unhealthy situations. Right now it works for us and is what is best for our family. Hopefully things will be different in the future. You need to do what is best for your family. And if something needs to said that is the truth, say it nice and do it with a SMILE! No one should have their Holidays ruined.
It is important that when you and your family are around them have a very strong foundation. Play games with your children stay close by each other, set boundries. I bet the little boy will want to do what you all are doing and play games with your family. Set rules, that if he is near you all or wants to do something like play or join in with your family these are your set of rules. If his mother does not like it than simple say sorry, this is how we do things, he will have to find something different to do. Even at family gatherings establish a routine that you and your family will do. Stand your ground! As a family!

Why not step up and correct him yourself and do so, so that his parents hear you? It's sounds like you all have let this go on so long that the kid thinks its acceptable since no one tries to discipline him. Kids can be kindly disciplined. No need to be aggressive or mean, just firm (when necessary) and consistent. He's just annoying as hell. We all know a kid like this.

Updated

Why not step up and correct him yourself and do so, so that his parents hear you? It's sounds like you all have let this go on so long that the kid thinks its acceptable since no one tries to discipline him. Kids can be kindly disciplined. No need to be aggressive or mean, just firm (when necessary) and consistent. He's just annoying as hell. We all know a kid like this.

Different strokes for different folks. In my family we have many, many kids running around at holidays. We have so many people we have to rent halls to have the holiday. Every family has somewhat different parenting styles. Of course some of the kids are annoying, at times but that is what kids sometimes do. They get overstimulated from eating cookies,, candy, etc. all the chaos and excitement. You just have to deal with it. If he is fine in school then he is fine, he just doesn't behave the way you want your children to behave. Let go and enjoy the holidays. It is not your place to discipline unless you see something seriously dangerous happening.

You could try telling him to stop/not go outside/do this or that yourself, as some suggest below, but frankly -- if his parents are as controlling as you note, I suspect they might go ballistic at you for "correcting" their child in their presence. That'll really make Christmas Eve fun. You can get him to behave when you're babysitting him, which is great and indicates he is capable of listening and controlling himself for you, but in the high-pressure situation of a holiday at the grandparents', your influence may be greatly lessened, sadly, by his own parents' overbearing (or too-slack) presence.

To salvage the holiday, I'd go with the idea of a new tradition. Go to your in-laws for only part of the evening then take your own sons out to see holiday lights if you have good ones in your area. Or if you're religious, add a Christmas Eve service (there are cool ones aimed at kids and tweens!) to your night. Or if your sons love movies, take them out to a film for part of Christmas Eve (some people are going to freak at that suggestion, but I know families who do that, or who alternatively watch holiday movies at home together on Christmas Eve -- there are plenty of comedy holiday films your boys might like).

In other words -- take the focus off We Must Be at Grandma's Or It's Not Christmas Eve in your minds AND in your in-laws' minds. It's up to your husband, though, not you, to see how this is going to sit with his parents. They may understand. And he does not have to tell them "This is because of little Bobby's wild ways" or the grandparents will be more irritated with Bobby than ever, and it's his parents, not the kid, who are to blame here. (Yeah, there IS blame in this world, so let's assign it where it belongs here!) I would just tell the in-laws that you ARE still coming to them but, because your boys are getting older, you are building some nuclear-family-only time with them while they are still at home -- they'll be gone soon enough (true).

Placate the in-laws by adding an extra visit over the holidays, maybe stopping in for dessert on Christmas Day. Or why not have the grandparents over to your house on Christmas Day for a few hours without SIL, BIL and Bobby?

Frankly, you can use your own kids' ages as an excellent, and very real, reason to cut down the Christmas Eve time with the extended family, and you can make the grandparents happy by seeing MORE of them at other times over holidays. Christmastide is not just Christmas Eve, and Thanksgiving dinner tastes great the next day if everyone has a laugh about it and isn't obsessed with dates on the calendar.

As for poor Bobby -- if you can, I'd offer to babysit him a little more. You seem to do the child good. I'm saying babysit because the presence of his mom and dad, and their hot-and-cold, conflicting parenting style that's lax one minute and strict the next, would only undermine the good you do him.

For Christmas, I'd give Bobby a trip to the zoo or some outing where he's with you but not mom and dad. Give him a TON of praise when he's good, too.

If you just must do the Christmas Eve thing, try bulldozing into the evening with a lot of things in hand for Bobby and your boys to DO in another room while the adults talk and visit elsewhere -- videos, small and inexpensive handheld video games, a small Lego kit if he likes that, stuff to keep him occupied. And more stuff for when the initial stuff wears off. It's not ideal but it's a defense mechanism for you as the adults. And again -- praise him long and loudly when he's good and just leave the room when he's not.

By the way, I'm sorry to see so many folks here rushing to insisting that "he must have a sensory issue/other problem" when you've already noted for us that he does not. And the way he will settle when you babysit him indicates that he IS capable of decent self-control.

I'm so sorry that your holidays are tense because of this situation. At least you and your husband have a measure of control, as you decide whether you will go or not, and have the choice of whether to correct your nephew or speak to his parents. But I wonder what the long term effects will be on your children, of having them routinely have to be hit or always have to give in to their cousin. I think that it is very important that you no longer allow your children to be the brunt of this behavior, and that you and your husband (yes, it's important that it's both of you) step in every time, structuring the situation, until he adjusts. I know this may sound not necessary, as your children seem compassionate toward him, but over the years, they could come to resent him, his parents, and you, because you didn't protect them from his behaviors. And this will also be a blessing for your nephew. I wish you the very best.

How do you know for sure that this boy has 'no health or sensory issues'? It certainly sounds like he could have some high functioning autism or asperger's tendencies. Perhaps you are correct, and this is only an issue of lack of discipline, but I wouldn't discount the possibility that something else is going on with him.
I agree with those who say keep on attending the family event, and keep on dealing with him in a positive way... doing your own gentle discipline when necessary. And, if finding a way to shorten your visit on these occasions is helpful, definitely do that. But do what you can to keep your family relationships intact and on an amicible level. In years to come, you may look back on these times and be grateful you did what you could to keep peace in the family.