5Yr Old Wanting to Hang Out with 2Nd Grader....

one of the things i love about homeschooling is that kids get to interact with other kids without the artificial boundaries of age. kids are SUPPOSED to learn how to be friends with other people, not just other age-mates.
that being said, your gut instinct probably is pinging for a reason. clearly fred is a bit desperate for a friend and some positive attention, so good for your sweet boy for befriending him, but it's also okay to put some safeguards in place. talking with the counselor is a great start, and also talking with your child about what's okay. be careful not to make him feel as if there's something wrong with his friendship (the tears over the snack indicate that you are worrying him and he doesn't understand.) you can tell him firmly that there will be absolutely no exposing of underwear or private parts anywhere, period, and also be very firm on the table manners. you can role-play with him on ways of handling fred's suggestions that your son behave badly, and help him learn to be a good friend without being a follower.
would it be the end of the world to pack a little extra snack?
khairete
S.

Um.....this kid is about 7 and your kid is 5?

"Do I know this will happen for the rest of his life, YES! " Really?

Your son sounds like a compassionate (maybe gullible) little guy.

He sounds like HE does not have a problem with "Fred" -- only you & husband.

Why NOT have this kid over?

My son is 8 (almost 9) and we have a neighbor that is 6 (almost 7) and they play together frequently--basketball, etc.

I don't see this age difference as "huge" nor would I assume a 7 year old is a bad influence. Older? Yes. More experienced? Yes. Smarter? Maybe.

Seriously, I think you're over reacting in a huge way.

Better to accept and "get it" now that not all kids are leaders or alpha-types and that the world needs all kinds of people.

Your son sounds sweet.
I'd pack an extra snack.

It is possible that Fred is simply lonely and does not know how to go about making friends very well (which could be why he is telling you son that things which are not funny, are funny). I would say contact the administrator at Kids Zone and voice your concerns about the snacks and the influence which Fred is having on your child. I would also get to know Fred and his parents (possibly at Kids Zone?) and maybe do some family activities with both you family and Fred's? And no don't demand that Fred stay away that would simply make both boys sad, and more lonely.

Well first off, how do you KNOW, 'this will happen for the rest of his life'? Good heavens, you are talking about 5 & 7 yr. olds! Give the kid a break!

Second, if your son wishes to 'share' his snacks why do you find that a bad thing, you might as well get used to it, cuz' this is the norm for ____@____.com 'Fred's' mom doesn't pack him a snack it's normal for the other kidz to offer him some of theirs.

As to the bad behavior, that is another story it may be true that 'Fred' laughs when your son acts silly @ school, kidz DO act goofy @ school, you would be appalled to see some of the things kidz do & say when they are away from home & in a 'kidz only' situation! Kidz say, 'so & so said to do this & that' ALL the time, kinda like saying, 'Sally & Fred have a red PSP why can't I have one too?' you will be hearing these kind of things ALOT as your son grows up.

I think I would actually invite 'Fred' for a playdate so that I could make my own judgement on the kind of kid he is.You may find he is a good or bad influence on your son but you will never know unless you check it out for yourself.

My kidz & grankidz have played with other kidz of all ages all of their lives I find it to be a good not a bad thing but that is just my take on things.

I hope all works out for you & your son, just cut him some slack mama.

Hi,
It sounds likes your son admires Fred and is influenced by him. The other moms have given good suggestions on what to do about Fred but I would like to offer a different perspective. When your son does something and says Fred thinks it's funny, ask him what he thinks. If he thinks it's funny then ask him why. If it is unacceptable behavior then tell him why you think it is. If you start these kinds of conversations with him then he will be more likely to keep talking to you instead of closing down and it will teach him to really think for himself. It will also show him that you care about what he thinks and how he feels. So, if Fred suggests that he do things (that are unacceptable)then he may find it easier to say no. You can also remind your son that it is ok to have friends other than Fred.

Can you go to Kids Zone yourself some time? I bet you would feel a lot better if you met Fred yourself and could get a better understanding of his character and your son's relationship with him just by watching them interact. The age difference is not necessarily a problem, but I think you are more worried about whether or not Fred is taking advantage of your son.

5 and 7 year olds play together all the time - I dont think its a big deal. Why can't "Fred" come over and play? Perhaps you would get to know him better and see for yourself if he is a bad influence or has other issues...

If the kid is hungry, maybe his parents dont have much money right now and cant afford to pack extra snacks?? I would hope that if my kid were hungry, someone would offer to share (or the school/daycare would provide him something). What if you forgot to pack your son's lunch/snacks one day - got stuck at a meeting or something, wouldnt you want someone to give him something if he asked? The way your son responded makes me think he is worried about his friend being hungry and is genuinely trying to be a good friend.

Call the kid's mom if you are concerned about his behavior/hunger/issues - perhaps she is unaware that her son needs/wants snacks at school (he probably goes home and tells her "no i dont need any, I am not hungry" because your son gives him son...or she is unaware of the underwear incident etc.

My son is almost 4 and has been in preschool for a year - even though he goes to a Christian school, he is still picking up some behavior from other students I would prefer he not have -- and at home we make sure he knows what is acceptable and what is not (ever acceptable). Something about boys age 3-10+ and bragging, and "daring" each other and giggling about "farts" and "butts" and "poop" that I will never understand -- but it is normal and it is my job as a parent to set boundaries for him and hope that he carries his manners to school and others' homes with him.

I think you should use your best judgment, talk to the other mom and the school/daycare but also try to foster your son's friendships whenever possible (unless this kid is really a bad influence etc.)... next year when he starts 1st grade, it might be nice to have a friend show him the ropes, keep an eye on him and make him feel comfortable about being in the "big school."

Good luck!

Look at this as a learning experience for all parties. First, boys are boys - who knows why they think things are funny (my husband still finds things funny that I as a woman just don't get). You need to continue to just reinforce what is correct behavior with your son - if it's not Fred, it will be some other kid at some point (who may be younger, same age, or older than your son.)

Second, kids don't think about age as much as parents do. Who your friends friends are shouldn't be determined solely on age or any other factor (it's a good time to start talking to your son about diversity.) I'm sure you and your husband are friends with people who aren't exactly the same age, background, etc. as yourselves.

Third, I think it would be good to do a play date with Fred and his parents. You should be able to get some insight as to why he doesn't have a snack, why he wants to come over, etc. I know we don't want to get involved in other peoples lives, but what if Fred really is hungry? What if his parents don't have enough money for food or ignore him all the time which is why he's always asking to come over. Take a minute to put yourself in his shoes and find out what is going on - you could end up making a difference in his life.

Maybe Fred is a neglected kid from a poor family. Maybe you and your husband don't socialize much so you aren't familiar with other children. Your son obviously wants to have friends.
Children in neighborhoods aren't locked into age brackets. At the age that your son is my younger daughter made friends with two girls who had sisters the age of her older sister. They would have the girls from one family over and then another day visit the sisters from the other family. All four children played together.
Do you work all day every day? What can you do to help your son get to know other kids. A Saturday art or dance class or gymnastics could get him out more.

Gosh, this is a real tough one! Your son sounds like an amazing young kid... there are not many at his age that would cry at the thought of a friend going hungry if he can't share his snacks! The best advice I can give you is to actually ALLOW Fred to come over to play at your house when both you, your husband AND his parents (or at the very least on parent) can be there. I know from experience that being confrontational with another kid's parents only leads to more trouble. If I were in your shoes I'd ask for the contact number of Fred's parents and call them saying something along the lines of "Hi, I'm Xs mom. My son tells me that Fred is his best friend. I'd like to invite your whole family to visit us for tea and cake on Saturday afternoon". If they accept the invitation you will see for yourself why this boy would rather play with your son than with kids his own age. I know from experience that the more "against" you are of a friendship or relationship the "tighter" your child will hold on to it! It's wonderful that you have such a good relationship with your son that he tells you everything honestly. The last thing you want to cause is that he starts lying, because you have forbidden him to play with Fred so he must do it behind your back! Obviously trust your instincts if you feel your son is in some kind of danger from this kid. Otherwise just keep reinforcing your rules for good behaviour ... with a bit of luck your son will then be a positive influence in Fred's life instead of Fred being a negative influence in your son's life! Good luck!!

I could be wrong, but my guess is that the school care program DOES provide a snack (most do), and Fred just wants more food or wants the particular snack your son has. He IS taking advantage of him if he is putting pressure on him to hand over his snack. I would talk to the director about the snack issue. DO they offer one to kids who don't bring one from home? If so, they need to be aware Fred needs one, as he tells your son often he is hungry. If not, I would feel bad if Fred's parents don't (or can't) provide him one, and I'd send extra for him every day. If he does have access to a snack, I would ask the supervisor to tell Fred directly he is not allowed to ask your son if he can share or have his snack.

I understand reasons you don't want your son to be playing around an older boy with questionable humor and bad manners, but if you choose to enroll him in this "kidzone" you can't really stop them from playing together as long as no one is getting hurt. They aren't that far apart in age. He's already been reprimanded for the underwear and bad table manners incidents. He knows you don't approve of those behaviors now. Honestly, he could just as easily pick this stuff up from another 5 year old during school hours.

It's not polite for Fred to constantly ask you if he can come over and play. (This is one of my pet peeves when I'm at my kids' school. I made sure MY kids know it is rude to ask someone for an invite to their house. The person asking for the playdate should be the one inviting you to THEIR house). I would just gently say, "No, this is your playtime here at kidzone. I am not up for making playdate plans when I come for pick up." Or "Fred if you want to make plans outside of Kidzone, you need to start that conversation at home with your Mom or Dad instead of asking me for an invitation."

If your son asks you at home if he can have Fred over, I may encourage him to choose some kids in class for playdates first. If he is insistant it be Fred, I'd reach out to Fred's parents and invite them over. If it's a terrible flop, explain to your son why you're not allowing anymore get togethers outside of Kidzone. At least you can see for yourself what the dynamic of their relationship is if you have him over. There's also a good possibility you won't be able to connect or work anything out with Fred's family, and you can leave at that. You tried and your son will just have accept they are "after-school" friends only.

I would discuss this kid and as many of the other kids that you son can think of to play with at Kids Zone, and see if you can get him to agree that Fred is not being a nice boy or behaving the way your son is supposed to, and that he is going to get him in trouble all of the time if he keeps hanging around with him. Get your son on your side so he can make the choice. After all, he is going to encounter this all of the time.Try and find out what 'nicer', better behaved kids are there and 'set him up with' some other kids, ask the counselors to direct him to play with a more age-appropriate group of friends, or find him just one other same-aged kid and get them busy playing together so they can hit it off, and make this Fred issue disappear. See if you can make your son see how 'wrong' this boy Fred behaves, by comparing his behavior to other well behaved kids he knows from school or from anywhere else (preferably ones you also know well so you can really gauge if they are 'good' kids, so your comparison is a good one.) In other words, if it hasn't helped to try and make the teachers/counselors responsible, and sincee you can't be there at all times, see if you can make your son responsible for his choice of friends. Kids know, even at this young age, who is a 'good' kid to play with, and who gets them in trouble and teaches them bad behavior and makes them lose other potential friends over. Yes I agree this kid is bad news for your son. But it sounds like he could easily take matters into his own hands and stop playing with Fred if he has other good kids and things to keep him busy, as well as the knowledge of how to tell a good kid from a bad influence. My son is 5 and knows right away, and tells me, when someone is a troublemaker. But probably because I ask and compare and show him, constantly talking in his ear about how whatever so and so did wasn't very nice, was it?...and wow, what a nice thing it was that so and so did today, wasn't it? And did he see anyone else get in trouble today? Or did he encounter anyone else doing something really good today? etc etc. You just have to tell them, over and over again, til they can see it for themselves. I hope it works out for you.

---I want to add, that, after reading what everyone else wrote in response here, I would highly agree with the people who say DO NOT have this child over for a playdate, because you need to look at it from your son's perspective. He will think you are encouraging his friendship with Fred if Fred is allowed to come over and play, not that you're just checking out him and his parents. Also, you will then have to lie over and over again to these parents about how you're too busy to have them over again, if it doesn't work out, or face the difficult conversation about how my son is not allowed to play with your son. He will become closer friends with Fred, rather than distance himself from someone who tells him to pull his pants down. This kid is absolutely bullying your kid, not in a way that hurts him physically, but in a way that this kid is controlling your child's behavior, b/c your son is younger and more naive than this kid. Trust your gut. And not because he is necessarily a terrible kid, bc maybe he's not, for example if were playing with other kids his own age and who he saw as peers, they would probably not go for his bad advice on how to get in trouble and fall for his tricks. Only the ones without good judgement skills would.

And i'm sorry, no, there's not much difference between a 32 year old and a 34 year old for example, but there is a HUGE difference between a 5 and a 7 year old in terms of age and maturity. If both kids, of such different ages, are being well supervised or are trusted to play like well behaved children, it is a wonderful thing, as several people mentioned below, to have them playing together, and healthy and good for them. But if one older child is taking advantage of a younger child's inability to decipher between good and inappropriate behavior, then an adult needs to intervene and cut off the friendship before it gets worse. And the parents of Fred do need to be told about their son's behavior so they can do something about it. Just my two cents.

Hi D.,

I would be concerned too. I really would. You want to protect your son from getting wise beyond his years. I really try to avoid letting my oldest spend time with older kids for that reason. I remember being a kid a neighborhood with older kids and all the things I learned from them. It's not wrong to want to keep your child innocent for as long as you can.

I think it would be pretty hard for you to insist that Fred stay away from your son, since it doesn't seem like they separate grade levels at Kids Zone.
I would speak with the director again and tell her that you're concerned and that you'd like an extra eye to be kept on the situation.

I would talk to your son again about not letting anyone ever tell him do something inappropriate like pulls his pants down. I would remind him that regardless if Fred thinks it's funny, you expect him to use proper manners and behave appropriately. We tell our kids all the time that every family is different and has different rules/values, but they are expected to follow OURS. If he doesn't comply, you may have to start issuing some consequences.

As for the snack sharing, I don't think you should feel obligated to send an extra snack for Fred. It's not your problem if Fred's parents aren't sending one with him. The director should be notified so that she can send a note to Fred's parents about this issue. I don't think there is anything wrong with you telling the director and day care providers that you don't want your son sharing. Let them be the ones to tell Fred that he's to stop asking your son for food. This will take the onus off your son.

And lastly, no, if you don't feel like Fred is a good influence, you should absolutely not invite him to your house to play. If your son keeps asking, it wouldn't hurt to explain to him that you don't care for the way Fred (talks, behaves, does inappropriate things) and that you will not be inviting him over. If he's sad, that's the breaks. You have to do what's best for your son even if he's not happy about it.

Best wishes!

If your son had an older brother he would probably be the same age as this boy. It is sort of the same idea. He has picked out someone he sees in the older male role.

I would talk to the director of the kids zone and tell them that you don't like that they are spending this much time together. The staff should be making sure that the little kids are getting to eat their own food and not going hungry.

First, I would talk to the teachers/director about the snack sharing and underwear incident and ask about that... they need to be the ones to contact Fred's parents about the snack, I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be giving their child a snack in the first place, so that is an administrator and parent issue that they need to remedy.

Then, I would get to know Fred and his parents. Then, I would *maybe* have him over, it would depend on my gut feeling really... with strict supervision, only for maybe an hour or so and see how it goes. Sounds like a lonely and desperate little kid. Definitely be talking to your son about privates and touching and underwear showing and ALL of that, even if you've already done it before... Dr. Sears has good advice on that here:

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/child-rearing-and-develo...

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/child-rearing-and-develo...

If the kids want to play together outside of Kid Zone, get together with the child's family. Maybe a playdate at the park or some other neutral area. Then you can see how your son interacts and if he's truly being led by the nose to misbehave or if, and I realize this may shock you, he's actually a willing participant in the shenanigans. You'll be able to talk with the parents and get their ideas and a sense of who they are and how their son turned out thusly. Since sharing a freaking snack is clearly asking too much, you could it bring it up to the other parents, "Hey, I'm having a hard time coming up with snack ideas for my son. I know it's important that he have *something*. What do you send for snack time?" That's right, I'm advocating lying instead of telling the truth, which is something like, "I don't want your kid eating my food."

You sound ridiculously judgmental of a *seven*year*old*. Is it really possible that he's scheming to take advantage of your son? Your statement about being new at the school friends thing makes me wonder what you did when you were in school. Are you always looking for the bad in people or is it just this kid? Is your child always going to be the innocent one? Your description of your perception of the situation sounds less than balanced, so it makes me think about you and your not-gonna-have-this-kid-at-*my*-house husband a lot more than the boy.

I think all the mom have given you great suggestions. I wanted to second the idea of inviting the kid and parents over and see for yourself what the dynamic is like.

I have a 9 year old and 5 year old, and all the time they play with each others friends. As a matter of fact, there are 9 year old triplets next door, and they prefer playing with my 5 year old because they have more common interests than my 9 year old. When my kids go to the park, they often play with each others friends. I have never seen it as unusual. Kids play with whomever is fun. They aren't concerned about age.

But if your intuition is ringing alarm bells, then yes, I would pay attention. Time to see for yourself what is going on.

Good luck!
B.

you have a right to be concerned but at the same time you "don't like" a kid you don't know. So get to know him. Do let him come over to see how the boys interact and WATCH HIM LIKE A HAWK. Then you can give him rules. At my daughter's after school club they provided the snacks for the kids. If this is not the case try to determine why "fred" does not have snacks. There really are children sent to school every day without snacks, breakfast, lunch. EVERYDAY. So before you judge a second grader and write him off LEARN MORE. While protecting your son at the same time. What if you find out this is a good boy (not perfect but good) in a really screwed up situation.