Anyone Else Feud with Sibling In-laws over Disciplining of Kids?

If this were me, I wouldn't plan any functions that involved the kids. If you want to get together with the adults, have everyone get sitters. It does sound like there might be some underlying problem with the niece...you did say that she's been this way most of her life (even before she was old enough to know better). My cousin has a little girl who was very difficult as a small child - there seemed to be sensory issues (I'm certainly no expert, but they really had a lot of problems with her that I never had with my kid and it seems like they were good parents and did all the "right" things). Now she's a teenager and still has a bit of an attitude and does a lot of back-talking. I doubt they will ever change her but their other daughter is sweet as can be. I try not to judge because until you actually live with a person, you don't really know their challenges. I know my cousin's daughter has been extremely hard to raise from the word go and some of that is just her basic personality.
As a general rule, I try to avoid any of those "talks" with parents that involve their kids or the way they handle things...it never has a happy ending and someone is always on the defense. I definitely would avoid get-togethers that involve the children. Eventually they will all get older and you can try again.

i'm not surprised that they took it badly. i don't think you're wrong to be put out by how they handle the interactions between the kids, but unfortunately you knew this going in. if they parent this ineffectively, why did you assume that confronting them head on about their parenting would result in a thoughtful mature reaction?

and if you're really honest with yourself you can probably see that there is a degree of antagonism in sitting down with a loved one and directly criticizing them for something as tender and potentially dramatic as their parenting.

i don't think you can unring this bell, but i think the best coping technique is immediate, calm and short. when 'oh hannah' hits your kids and her parents don't stop it, you step in. it's okay to speak to hannah (that's not disciplining her, it's addressing what's going on under your nose and with your kids.) 'hannah! you may not hit buttercup! come here, buttercup. are you okay? good girl! i'm proud of you for not crying! let's play over here for now, hannah needs to play by herself until she feels more kind.'
'excuse me, BIL, we actually have given hannibal permission to run around. it's okay, hannibal. hannah's parents are in charge of her. you go ahead and play.'

then leave it up to them if they want to take it further with you. i'll bet they don't. but if they're stopped in their tracks, courteously and immediately and without lingering drama or eye rolling or resentment, they're far less likely to overstep with YOUR kids in the future.

and that's all you ultimately want. they can raise hannah however they like. but your kids need to see and hear you advocating calmly and without rancor on their behalf when they're attacked or unfairly disciplined.

either way your in-laws may choose to disassociate with you. but in your situation it's a direct result of your words. in the other you would, FWIW, be blameless.

i hope the families can move forward without holding onto this.

ETA i suggest that next time you open your question with 'not looking for advice or suggestions, just praise and applause for my passive-aggressive method of handling family.'

khairete
S.

Wow. I think you're rather judgey and it's obvious to them. You have no idea why their daughter cries a lot. Some kids have a higher-needs temperament and if that's the case, it's draining on the parents and has nothing to do with how they parent her. So to start, perhaps you could get off of your high horse.

The "sit down" was not a good idea. Saying something in the moment that models behavior is fine, but to schedule a chat and tell them how to raise their kid is not. It's not your job to tell them how to parent. If you don't like spending time with them, then just don't. If they ask why, then have your husband tell his sister what's up ("hey, BIL was yelling at DS for running in the driveway. We allow DS to run. If that's a problem for your daughter, then deal with her and leave DS out of it").

I would minimize interactions for now. If you have to get together for holidays or parties or whatever, do what you need to do in the moment to intervene but otherwise, keep your distance if you don't have the patience for them.

If it were me, after so many examples, I'd simply get up and leave, saying, "Sorry all but we need to go NOW." Every time. You cannot get them to discipline differently, partly because they don't share your philosophy, and partly because there's no nice way to say, "You guys suck as parents." You have to minimize the number of times you get together, even if that means telling Grandma and Grandpa that you are unable to attend Dinner X or Holiday Y or Birthday Z.

Part of your problem is that yur husband isn't going to take on his sister - as you noticed during your "little chat." Yes, your BIL ignored you which you feel is dismissive, as if you are 5 years old, but you also lectured them (or at least it seemed that way) about their lousy parenting, which they are going to feel treats them like they are 5 years old too and need to be straightened out by you. I get that their child's behavior is a problem in that they don't intervene. But you know they aren't going to. What you think of as the truth is seen by them as superiority and insults. It's been a year or more. Why do you keep going back into this situation?

If these were not your husband's relatives, you wouldn't get together. You would accept that you have nothing in common and that the kids don't get along. You'd find other play dates and dinner dates. So do that.

Your children are being hurt. Stop putting them in that situation. Maybe on some level the BIL/SIL will eventually figure this out, or maybe their daughter will eventually see that if she pokes someone or has a tantrum that people leave.

We have cousins that we adore 99% of the time. But they had some terrible losses re pregnancies and finally had a child - they cannot bear to see him upset, so they never, ever tell him "no" except for silly stuff like no going into the lake above his ankles or moving more than 5 feet away from them. They are late to everything because, if he doesn't want to get in the car seat, they spend 30 minutes finding something to bribe him with. If he wants to scream during dinner and hit people, they don't say no because he'll whine. He's having problems in preschool and they can't figure out why. There are a few kids in their neighbor but the playdates are affected because he's "aggressive" (the mom's words) and the other kids are not. So, no playing. She's starting to see that he's missing out but it will take a while for it to sink in, and probably 6 months worth of calls from next year's kindergarten teacher that's he's a problem!

So we just turn down invitations and say we'll get together when he's older. If we have to get together but he does his screaming thing, we just put on our coats and take a walk while things cool down. Not judgment, no lectures - just departures. It's actually quite effective. But if I had little kids like you do, I would go home. A friend of mine does that at her friend's home, when the father and the grandmother start with their abusive language and criticism. She just says, "Sorry, I'm taking my children out of this conversation. Bye bye."

ETA - What do you think they should have said or done when your daughter hit your child?

Original Answer - My husband and I have had to deal with this from time to time. It's not always the other kid, either. Sometimes our child is the problem.

For the most part, we've just made ourselves more present. Also, as Suz suggested. Sometimes we have said, "It's not nice to hit. Please don't hit Tommy. Tommy, are you ok?"

You also have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they won't home later that day and talked about what happened or how to handle it in the future. With older kids, we try to assume that the parents might not have done anything in the moment but might have had a talk with their child later. I realize that doesn't apply to a 1 1/2 year old, but it could to an older child.

It's a delicate balance because you need to protect your own child. That's very important. But you also need to maintain healthy relationships with the adults. I know you were trying to do just that. The best thing you can do moving forward is to just keep treating them like you always did before. Hopefully, in time, they will begin to let it go and start interacting with you they way they did before.

You can't change what has happened, and you can't change how they feel right now. Give it some time.

Hm. Maybe don't hang out together so often. You all seem to bug each other. They aren't used to older kids and think your son is being bad when he's not. Their daughter is only 1 and a half and they are not so good at discipline. My nephews (same age as my son) used to be hellions and were never disciplined. Often they were out of control when they were young and it drove me nuts. One of them is now so mature and thoughtful you would swear he is an adult (he's a teen). You can't control them or fix their parenting. It's going to bother you. I guess just see them less often. When you do see them try to let things roll off your back. Just let it go...you and your husband can vent about it later. If they are just too much then cut the visit short and say it's time to go.

Honestly, I get that you don't like their parenting. But their child is still basically a baby who can walk. She has a high-strung personality, OR she is on the autism spectrum and has not been diagnosed. Their parents don't yet know how to handle her, and they aren't going to learn that from YOU. Why you thought anything good was going to come out of your lecture, I don't know, but it was foolish of you to have done what you did.

Don't go over to your husband's parents house when you know they will be there. It's that simple. If you end up there together, if their child hits your child, immediately intervene and take your own child out of the mix, go outside and let things cool off. When it happens again, time to leave.

Don't invite their family to your home. If you all want to get together, meet at a family style restaurant where you deal with your children on YOUR side of the table. Don't allow your children to do what their child does (run around the restaurant). Better yet, get a babysitter and meet them without your children. That is safer. I wouldn't want your kids around your BIL who thinks that he gets to make everyone else's children do what he wants just because his own child isn't old enough to hang with the big kids.

At her age (and even your 3 year old's age), children parallel play - they don't really play with each other. The Toddler's Creed - have you ever read that? It really does apply here. It's said in jest, but it's basically true and that is developmentally on target with this age group. Add to it a child who is hard-wired to be this way, AND parents who don't yet know how to deal with it, and it's a HARD row to hoe for these parents.

You don't personally know what it's like to have a child with a difficult personality. But you do know what it's like to judge a parent who has a child like this, because that's what you are doing. Instead of feeling such angst, you should actually have a little compassion for them. THEY are the ones who are going to continue to be miserable with their child's tantrums. They are the ones who will lose friends because of it. They are the ones who will have to seek help to figure this out. And here they have family who are some of the most difficult in their circle.

They may or may not rise to the occasion to deal with this. Things may turn around when their child becomes able to talk enough to not be so very frustrated with not being able to communicate. Either way, you have the luxury of leaving with your own very well-behaved children and going somewhere else. Try to have a little love in your heart and feel SOMETHING for what this family is going through.

What did you expect them to do about the hitting? Other than saying, "Hannah, we don't hit," or "gentle, be gentle," what else is there at that age? Being hit by a younger cousin is hardly being "mistreated."

I'm guessing your children never hit anyone at that age, because there isn't much else you can do.

I'm sure you didn't mean to come of as thinking you are the perfect parent, but as someone whose children did occasionally hit another person, there really isn't much else you can do. And it is frustrating, especially when you know your brother's wife doesn't approve.

My very dear friend’s children did similar things to mine. Her son would not share, would hit, and sometimes throw hot wheels at my son. I told her son if he did those things we would leave. So we did - every time. I was not going to subject my kids to behavior like that or see them hurt. My job is to protect and teach my kids.

I don’t think you handled it well. I think you are frustrated (reasonable) and wanted to make sure you got them told. In my opinion, telling your husband, I’m sorry, I’m not taking the kids over to SIL house until we’ve come to an agreement how you will handle things with her if her kid gets unruly. Then stand by it. Or discuss what to say at the time. Something like I understand you want my son to not run around your kiddo but he’s fine. Please don’t yell at him again. If there’s an issue, let me know and I’ll tske care of it.

They’re free to parent as they see fit. You didn’t sound like you were giving constructive criticism...you were getting them told. No kidding that didn’t go well over well.

Your children are now 6 and 3. When my son was the youngest of 6 he was constantly hitting the other kids, definitely at 1 1/2. How did I handle it? Of course I told him to stop. The bulk of the hitting stopped when the other kids would hit him back. He could dish it out but couldn't take it.

We don't advocate hitting but sometimes there comes a time when you showing someone you mean business is better than telling them you mean business. Your niece is only a baby, barely a toddler. It's time to teach your children how to deal with difficult situations. Your niece doesn't have the language skills to say get out of my face. So perhaps proximity does matter to her. It did to my son who did have the language skills at that young age but was way more tactile when expressing his desires because it was quicker that speech.

Avoiding the family isn't the answer. This is a great opportunity for your children and yourselves as parents to learn how to deal with difficult persons and situations. You're taking things way too serious. This kids are cousins. Don't sever the relationships yet.

What Diane B. said.

But this can also be an opportunity for your kids. Teach them how to be assertive with their boundaries. In those examples, teach your children to stand up for themselves and say...”I don’t want to play with some one who hits me” or “doesn’t share”, etc. and walk away.

It keeps it focused on the facts, on the behavior, (which can be changed) and not the parenting style (philosophical and individual).

I totally understand you wanting to protect your kids and not wanting their cousin to hit them, but, right or wrong, your approach didn't work. They didn't hear anything but criticism. They felt attacked, and they didn't like it. You can say, "The truth hurts," or you can back off and try a different approach.

When someone is a new parent and struggling with how best to respond to your child's behavior, you don't need critics, you need allies. How can you support your husband's family? How can you be an ally?

Go to them again. Apologize. Tell them that you forgot how overwhelming it can be to be a new parent. Tell them that your children may not have hit other kids, that there were definitely some areas of parenting that we really tough for you and then share that.

I am so blessed that my children do not struggle academically (at all!). I can pat myself on the back and say, "Good job!" or I can realize that I didn't do anything special and don't deserve kudos. And I really need to remind myself of that when I'm struggling with their shortcomings. My oldest is the biggest class clown and can't seem to realize how frustrating that is for his teachers, coaches, scout leaders, etc. My child may not struggle with grades, but definite has challenges.

Your kids may not struggle with hitting others, but are there other struggles they have? Are there other areas of parenting that havn't bee so easy? Can you share that and let them know that maybe you were too quick to condemn and failed to be a source of support and encouragement to new parents?

What positive thing can you do to fix this? Not spending time with them is not the answer.

You and they have different incompatible parenting styles.
What this means is - you can only see them when the kids aren't around and the kids are not allowed to play with each other.
Although if they are going to pull this pouting act it might be a good thing to cut them all off.
They aren't going to change - and neither are you.
The best way to deal with it is to not deal with it at all - just keep your kids away from each other.

I'm not interested in SIL reasons or excuses - everyone is a first time parent sometime - and they don't let their little darling call the shots.
Let them go off in their own little world - your kids can make friends of their own.
Maybe in 10 years time you can try getting the kids together again - but I have a feeling it will be just as bad if not worse.
Families grow apart sometimes for very good reasons.
This is one of them.
If your husband and his sister want to go to dinner sometime to have some time together - fine - they can have at it.
There's no reason the rest of your families have to socialize with each other.

I don't think you did anything wrong, but I would have called them out for yelling at your children in the moment rather than waiting to have a big talk. In the end you have to protect your children, they are your main priority.

If BIL wants to act like a child about the whole thing that is his problem in the end, I would continue to do everything just like normal, just make sure you or husband are present whenever niece is with your children so you can remove them if niece hits and so you can be sure your children are not being yelled at for things that are not a problem (like running)

I think what you're saying is (if I'm reading this correctly) - you're looking for an acknowledgement/apology from the parent because the child isn't old enough to offer one at this point. Totally reasonable.

So you can model it for them. You would take your child (who was poked in eye) and say "Oh ouch! that must have hurt. We don't poke in the eye" and then you tend to your child. You keep them separate (on your lap if needs be) until they've stopped crying and are ok.

Do that enough times, the other mom (SIL) will get the hint. Remember, she's a new mom and if she struggles with her daughter, then this is hard for her. Just model what you'd like to see happen.

As far as going over there, I think you kind of ambushed them. I hate that (personally). I had a neighbor do this to me once, in my driveway. She tried to tell me how to parent my children, and my simple solution was - we weren't interested.

How would you feel if someone approached you with a list of their concerns over how you handle things? It's the kind of thing a boss does, not a relative or friend. I don't mean offense, but issues should be brought up at the time, otherwise it's just unpleasant and awkward.

It becomes a much 'bigger' deal. Does that make sense? I think that's what you've done. Now it's happened, I think just let it go. If they are willing to move past it, then you'll know in time.

For the running incident, where they told your son he couldn't run (this is something my neighbor would have done too, so I get where you were annoyed - I was too), you could have said "Actually, my son is allowed to run" and left it at that. With us, it was going into the woods. I had no problem with it - and said so.

Sometimes (like with our neighbors, and maybe at this age with your niece), it's just not a good fit - and maybe it will be in time. Just because your family it doesn't mean you have to be close pals either. I would let it be for now. If you want to reach out and say I'm sorry if we offended you, ... you can do that in a card maybe.