At a Loss in Dealing W/ 8 Yr Old Lying, Stealing, Manipulating

Updated on May 25, 2011
T.M. asks from Mill Hall, PA
6 answers

So my 8 year old loves nothing more than getting his way - ALWAYS. He will argue every single directive *even* when an explanation is given (for example, "Please get your shoes on so we can get to karate class" and he'll say, "But I was going to feed the dog" or "But I want to get my money from my room" "But I need to go to the bathroom" - you get the picture - ANYTHING but compliance, right?). This happens with seemingly everything I say EVERY time I ask. He's homeschooled and it often takes me telling him upwards of TEN times to, "Please go get your workbook and pencil" - he may get one but not the other, he will walk toward the bookshelf but find a *different* book he'd "rather" read, he may stop to look at the baby's toys and start to play, he may need to suddenly pee or poop, he may suddenly be hungry/thirsty/tired or just unable to find what I've sent him for. When he finally has a book and pencil, it can takes up to an hour (or more) to do ONE page (we're not talking brain surgery here, we're talking *review* items). The stalling and dragging out of every single item is wearing me out completely.

As for stealing... he's taken money from his step-brother's room (I sent him there looking for a pair of sweatpants, he came out with $2, no sweatpants and stole his brother's white belt for karate b/c he'd lost his own), he's taken money directly out of my 'money jar' on the stove - no reason given, just saw my $10 and wanted it. He's stolen money from my DH's 'spare change' jar - the baby dumped some on the floor, so my DS thought he'd help himself to $3+ in change of his dad's, knowing full well it didn't belong to him. He also steals food - and by stealing, I mean he asked me at least 6 times if he could eat my (very expensive) diet bars and I told him, "no, these are special for my diet - you have other things you can eat like blah blah blah" Well, Saturday morning, he helped himself to the WHOLE box - at least 3 entire chocolate diet bars plus found some old Halloween candy up high in the cupboard. When DH & I came downstairs, we thought it odd that there were no cereal bowls in the kitchen sink and asked the boys if they'd eaten breakfast - we were met with two very solid, "NO" answers. Thus, we took the boys out for special breakfast and proceeded to have a very fun family day, happy knowing our boys weren't whining or anything else. Sunday, I found the empty box of diet bars in the cupboard and realized what happened. My son lied about taking them then finally admitted. He thought if he talked my stepson into eating them with him, he wouldn't be in as much trouble (major manipulation). When my stepson got home from his mom's Sunday evening, DH told him he was already busted and asked what else was eaten - that's how we found out about the other candy & such. When asked where the wrappers were, my son said in the trash, buried under stuff. DH checked - NO wrappers. When SS was asked where the wrappers were, he said they flushed them down the toilet (more manipulation, major show of *thought* going into the choice to lie & sneak, right?) - when DH asked my son *again* where the wrappers were and then added that SS had already told us where they were, *then* my son admitted to flushing them.

This is not a first, second or even 30th time something like this has happened. I understand lying to avoid consequences or fear of disappointment, but I do not understand the choice TO steal in the first place. Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Clarity on the situation anyone??

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So What Happened?

Thank you for your responses! We have seen (and he continues under the care of) psychiatrists and psychologists. He had over 2 years of full-time wrap-around (TSS) services and we continue with his Mobile Therapist each week in the home. The reason I took him out of public school is because I believed they were crushing his individuality - there just isn't enough room in public school for a child to think outside the box (IMHO). I don't want him to raise his hand to speak or ask to go pee or walk in a single-file line unless he wants to do those things. I love that he's creative, talented, spirited (all the positives of his 'disorders') but guess I was seeking more help in dealing with it for ME. I take the stealing very personally. Apparently I need more work on my perceptions and understanding where he's coming from - the response about having an adult husband with ADHD was most helpful. I know all kids go through some degree of these behaviors, so it's reassuring to hear most of it is normal, just at the extreme end of normal : )

More Answers

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D.P.

answers from Pittsburgh on

Teresa,
Has your family considered family counseling? It might be of value to you.
Also, I would write a list of house rules (no stalling, lying, sneaking snacks, stealing, etc.) and post them on a wall in the kitchen. Then decide to use either a reward or discipline system. (Start out with x number of balls, coins, chips in a jar & bad behavior looses O. per offense OR earn O. by NOT doing each rule every day. Decide on the discipline you are going to use and stick with it (time outs, no tv for x amt of time, video games, etc.) Be consistent and make sure everyone is treated and considered equally. Just my advice--maybe it might help. Good luck!

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J.Z.

answers from Ocala on

I am looking for the same answer as you are.My 6 year old does the same thing. He has adhd odd ocd and he is on medicines but I don't know what to and punishment don't help.

A.J.

answers from Williamsport on

Sorry this is late-I've bee away, but I just saw this and am fascinated as the mother of kids who will live in the world with yours. I have heard of kids being pulled from public school to be home schooled because it's too lax, but never because having to raise hands and ask to go to the bathroom etc was too strict. I have some questions. Do you really see no connection between you teaching your son he does not have to follow rules, and the fact that he doesn't follow any rules? If he has been diagnosed with so many disorders, have you not heard that he needs more structure than most kids? Do you think that under the pressure of his teen years, and despite his numerous disorders and despite his "do whatever yo want" upbringing, that one day on his own with no guidance he will suddenly realize that he has to respect other people and follow rules in society such as standing in lines and following traffic signals and not robbing banks? He's already stealing. Also, his talents may not be the upsides of his disorders, They may just be his talents. My kids are talented and spirited too, but they have to work with others and follow rules. It makes me sad to when they have to mix with kids who think that no one else matters. It's not your son's fault.
Good Luck.

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B.F.

answers from Philadelphia on

Hi Teresa! I am a Special Education Teacher who has worked with students with ADHD, ODD, etc. My first suggestion is to make sure your day is very structured and you have a set routine. Make sure there are many breaks built in. Be very clear with your directions and have very clear consequences. The hard part is being consistent. I would also give him choices. If it is a small decision, let him choose. If it is a big decision, give him a choice he will want to do and a choice he will not want to do. Whatever he chooses, follow through. I find a lot of my students need to have some control. Try not to show much of a reaction (I know this is very hard, because he probably likes to make everything your fault.)

A resource you may be able to turn to is MHMR. I now work at home for an online school and we refer our students there. Their website is http://www.pacounties.org/mhmr/site/default.asp.

Another idea, is make sure the instruction he is receiving is on his instructional level. You probably already do this, but I know many student act out because they become frustrated and overwhelmed.

I will go through my books and notes of strategies and let you know if I see anything that may help.

Best of luck. You have a really tough situation!

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A.S.

answers from Pittsburgh on

Teresa,
Please get some professional help for your family. Since two of your children have diagnoses already, start with whatever doctor or agency where they got their diagnoses. It sounds like you would qualify for family-based counseling that can even come to your home, if you are not already getting some.
A.

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M.A.

answers from Allentown on

If your son has been diagnosed with all of those disorders, he must have seen psychologists/psychiatrists for the diagnosis. They should be able to give you advice for treatment. Many of the behaviors that you describe are not uncommon for children with ADHD or ODD. Kids with those disorders can be extremely impulsive - their impulses win out over reason - so your son knows he shouldn't do something, does it anyway because of his lack of impulse control, then feels the need to hide what he did because he knows it is wrong. As frustrated as you are - he probably is as well. This isn't the lack of impulse control that is typical of a young child (and appropriate for their age) - it is much worse than that in some kids with ADHD.

What you describe during your school time with him is typical of his diagnoses as well - the avoidance & "forgetfulness" - not unusual with the disorders you've given. Kids who truly have ADHD have minds that are running a mile a minute - they are VERY easily distracted & - even though you've told him to get something very specific - it does not surprise me that he gets distracted while he is up getting it & comes back without the things requested. Again - not your typical distractability that most kids have - this is more than that - & out of their control.

You should seek advice, assistance, treatment now - before the preteen years hit! You may want to consider talking to the local school district because public schools (& I say this without knowing your reason for homeschooling, so I realize you may not want to pursue this for your own reasons) have many many resources for students like your son. They have counselors, school psychologists, reading specialists, even support for the classroom teachers teaching students with difficulties. They may be able to provide services for your son that you can't at home.

Kids like your son can be a challenge, but they can be very spirited & talented kids too. My husband is an adult with ADHD & doing quite well now - I'd say partially "thanks" to his ADHD!! It took him a while to get to this point, but he now knows how to manage his life to make his disorder work for him & not against him.

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