Attention: All Cry It Out Method Believers!!! Give It to Me Ladies!!

Hi Jen, I know you must be exhausted by now so hang in there because it will get better. I think he is a little too young to be trying the cry it out method. My guess is that he is probably hungry by 4 am or even 2:30 am and the pacifier is just enough to get him back to sleep but not enough to keep him asleep. I for one have never had a kid get up in the middle of the night due to teething so it's probably not that. I think 8 to 4 is pretty long for one that little to sleep and he just needs a meal and a diaper change. Try a meal at 230 and see if that eliminates the 4am wake up call. Good luck and hang in there! :)
M. (mom to 6---aaagghhh!)

Jen A

Just my opinion, but I think he is too young for a CIO method . Your little one is just that: a little one and he needs lot of comfort and cuddling... At this age most of babies will not have a steady sleeping pattern, and they will wake moms up during the night.
Your baby is giving you signs: "...when he gets up at 4 will go straight back to sleep if I get up and hold him for a minute..." Your baby needs something to comfort himself (whatever you chose, pacifier, blanket, a soft towel...a burp cloth). You just have to chose what kind of comfort, if you don't want him to have a pacifier, give him something to have for him to feel secure and not alone. Sorry I can't help you with the method you like...I don't like the CIO method at any age,..I may be a soft mama....
Good Luck!
Alejandra

I can be pretty hard nosed with babies when I really need to be. If I really thought that one of my babies or daycare babies was only partially awake, I'd let them cry. Certainly during nap time and when I first lay them down. But I have a HUGE problem with the idea of not going into them at all. I know that's not what you want to hear. I'll take the verbal slap attacks and private messages for the sake of standing up for a child.

First of all, it's been my experience that any baby that cries enough to be wide awake will be wet. If they were not wet when they first woke up, they would be awake once they started crying loudly. I don't believe in leaving a baby awake and wet and I don't believe in letting them be wet AT ALL. I can't count the times that babies of mine had a dirty at night too. I just can not understand why anyone would want a baby to be wet just so they can sleep.

Secondly, as a mom I always felt it my responsibility to keep the other family members out of this sleepless game. If they are crying loudly, the other children, my husband, and anyone else in the house (my mother) is not sleeping. AND, when my children were young we lived in apartments. So I was very concerned with my neighbors.

The 3rd issue is one of comfort. If you put your baby down around 8-10 like most people do, then 2 am is long enough that any 5 month I've ever known would have been wet, hungry, at least thirsty and they need some support. 4-5 am is often time for babies to get up. They are simply ready for the day. My grandson needs to drink a few ounces and feel a warm body at that time. But he goes right back to sleep. Then again, we are doing the family bed thing anyway.

Wouldn't it just be a lot easier to find a good hearted daycare provider that is open 24/7 and take the baby there for a night every 2-3 weeks so that you can sleep all night? I'm not putting in a plug for myself LOL! I'm really not. There are so many people opening up for 24 hours. Then there are relatives too.

If you really want to teach your child that you are not coming in at night, then just don't do it. But all they will be learning is that mommy means business and that if I am awake, scared, lonely, wet, thirsty, or can't find the dang pacifier, I'm on my own. I do believe those feelings would eventually pass. But the next question you'll be putting through here at some point is...now my child is sleeping but they are so wet in the morning and I can't seem to find the right kind of diaper to hold it all....

If sleeping 8-4 normally, I would feel that was a luxury night's sleep! Also, if now awaking around 2:30, it could possibly be the start of getting some early teeth or just being a tad bit hungrier in middle of the night with normal growth. I honestly don't remember getting a full nights sleep without awaking myself until mine was over a year old. I personally could never do the CIO method, if they cry, they generally need something.

The best book out there is "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Dr. Marc Weissenbluth. I highly recommend it and you still have enough time to get a copy before you start.

As for checking in on the baby. Every 10 minutes is good. It should only last a night or maybe two. Probably shorter for you since you've been doing it for naps. It is easier to do CIO now than when they get older.

Good luck. I know it's hard because they are just little babies, but if they aren't taught they can have sleep problems their whole lives.

Check to see if his gums feel swolen- if not, he's probably not teething. If so, give him infant motrin before bed so you won't second-guess yourself. If he's in pain (ears, esp.), it just won't work. Otherwise, just be persistent. The weekend we did it with my daughter, I'd get out of the house during the hardest parts because my husband could handle the crying better. With my son, my daughter and I spent two weekend nights at my in-laws' house because of the same reason. My husband didn't do it exactly the way I would, but we all lived, and my kiddos are good sleepers now (except for occasionally when we have a weird night and have to get back on track). And just one last thought to complicate things: Dr. Ferber thinks some babies aren't ready until 8 or 9 months. I liked his schedule/description of the timed visits and I'd recommend his book. My sister, who has 3 good sleepers, thinks skipping the checks works best because it just gets the baby worked up- I agree, but am too much of a softy and my daughter's foot got caught between two crib rails when we did sleep training, so I'm glad I did timed visits. Good luck with however you decide to do it. It will get better, whether you make it get better now or wait- just trust your instincts.

I think 5 1/2 months is a little young to do the cry it out method. But that is just my opinion. I would just let him have his paci & go back to sleep. If he wants to be held again, be sure when you give him his paci that he is swaddled & maybe he will sleep?? Just a suggestion.

I think the sleep expert at St. Luke's says not to do cry it out until 7 months, and when you do, make sure you are following a plan (from a book etc) otherwise you might make things worse. How do you know it's not just teeth or something else? You don't. I was told over and over to let me daughter cry it out since she was up several times at night, but I knew in my gut that I shouldn't. It turned out she had food allergies (that still at 3 can wake her up at night if she eats the wrong thing) and once we got a handle on those, she started going to sleep on her own and sleeping through the night. She also didn't teeth well. Sorry I can't encourage you more. I always felt like "she needs what she needs"...but moms need what they need too, so if you aren't able to function at work you need to find something that works for you too. If you are in St. Louis, you can go to the sleep clinic at St. Luke's...they have a pediatric specialist and they give you a detailed plan to follow (sometimes it's a modified cry it out if that's warranted) and a phone number to call for support. (But they also told me to cry it out with my daughter...nobody really understands how allergies affect sleep). Good luck.
Oh, there's also the "No Cry Sleep Solution" book and "The Sleep Lady"

J.,
My husband and I did the cry it out method when our son was 5 months old on the advice of our pediatrician and several friends. We actaully had nap time issues and bedtime was great - but we were putting him to bed dead asleep which was causing him to be unable to put himself to sleep for naps.

It is hard - but it does work. For us it took about 2-3 nights, but the first was the worst/longest. As far as how do you know if they are sick or teething - make sure they are not either of these things when you decide to start. Then go for it:

- start a bedtime routine if you don't already have one. We did brush teeth, put on pjs, read a few books then off to bed.

- Give him a kiss tell him you love him and that it is time for bed then leave the room.

- We took our monitor with us, but turned the sound off and only looked at the video to reassure ourslves he was okay.

- we also, went outside so we couldn't really hear the heartbreaking crying - because they will scream.

- Set a timer for 5 minutes (you could strat at 3 if you want) When the timer goes off - go in you can touch him, tell him everything is okay - but DO NOT pick him up and try to spend no more than 1 minute in there. Then leave again, - warning - he will scream louder - this is the REALLY hard part.

- Set the timer for 7 minutes (or 5 if you started at 3) and do it all over again. Continue to go in and stretch the time (although we never waited longer than 10 minutes) until your son falls asleep.

- The next night or two will not take nearly as long. Our first night took a total of about 2 hours. (It was the hardest thing I've ever done) but I'm glad I did it because I have a son who is very sure of himself and can put himself back to sleep anytime he wakes up.

- Now how do I know if he really needs me - you'll know - after the cry it out you'll learn his cues. If my son wakes up and just cries quietly for a few seconds I know he will put himself back to sleep (also he's usually still laying down then) However, if he is crying very hard, and especially if he is standing - then I know he needs me because he doesn't feel good or had a bad dream.

Good luck to you - it is hard, but usually helping our kids to become independent in their own ways is.

jen, i have never read any books on the subject of crying it out, but i believe any "advice" books should be sprinkled with a big dose of common sense. what we did with my son was i think a variation of the cry out method, which, basically, i was where you were at in that whole "okay this is ridiculous, there's no reason for you to be waking up at this point." SO just look at it this way. for awhile now he's been waking up at these times, so it's basically just that his body is in the habit. just have to break him of the habit with as little drama as possible, and probably there will be some.

i would not focus so much on the words "cry it out"...i would just think of it as, nothing is wrong with him. so i would wait a little longer each time before i go in and check on him. if you normally go in as soon as he starts fussing, stop that, wait five or ten minutes. if you normally wait, i'd say double the time before you go in. personally, if he gets to where he's spazzing out and practically hyperventilating (you know how they do when they get themselves all riled up) i'd go in, pet his back, get him calmed down (pick him up only if you absolutely have to), then start over. just give him less and less, baby steps if you have to, just to teach him that he'll be okay on his own and that nighttime is not the time for cuddles and such. just keep in mind you're teaching him to fall back asleep on his own...you're not trying to "break" him, or "force" him...just be gentle and understanding, but like i said, tempered with some common sense.

it's awesome that you have next week off, take advantage of it, and stick to your guns!! you can totally do this!! listen to your gut but know that babies cry, especially when learning to self soothe themselves back to sleep. it won't hurt him. you go mama!

(ps, like i said, i have been where you are...and if the paranoia really gets to you that he might be teething, a little bit of infant tylenol doesn't hurt. might actually help! just saying, as a last resort - i am the queen of paranoia...if it gets bad, then at least you'd have your bases covered. i'll probably get slammed for this, in my three year old's life i've only done it once or twice when i didn't actually know anything was wrong...but at three am after listening to crying for who knows how long...i'm just saying, it's an option!)

Good Morning Jen, have you tried white noise or music in his room to comfort? We have played baby Einstein Lullaby's on random replay all night long.
You have received alot of advice about the crying it out pro's and con's, so I won't add to that.

What I will share is relax as your baby starts cutting teeth or has other mystery's going on you will learn to recognise the differnt types of crying. They are definitely different in each instance and child.
It's called Mama's gut Feelings/Instincts. You'll be able to figure it out.
There are I am MAD Screaming (get in here MOM) cries..
I am hungry cries, I need a hug whimper cries, I am STINKY and need my Diaper changed cries..That odor lets me know Zane will not be taking a nap if he is poopy. Even if I just changed the little bugger he can poop in a heart beat, and needs changed again. Yeah he is 2 and Mom hasn't started Potty training yet. He's not talking alot yet so that is our hang up for now.

God Bless you and your lil Prince Jen

K. Nana of 5

I will suggest the same book that I have suggested a dozen times here on Mamasource (I should ask the author for a fee!!! lol). I used this years ago when my youngest was driving us insane with waking a jillion times a night!!! Check out a copy of "Solve Your Childs Sleep Problems, by Dr Richard Ferber at your local library. It saved our sanity and really helped explain how I was CONTRIBUTING to the problems we were having!!!
Don't worry about not knowing when your child needs something that you need to be in there for. You will be able to "read" his cries, you probably already can, we Mommas come with built in "cry interpreters!!!". You will be fine and you will be much happier, and so will he, after a good nights sleep. (By the way, I should add that it is not unusual for a baby to be waking up once or twice in the night at this age, very few 5 months old sleep all night long, they need dry diapers or to be nursed again.)
R. Ann

I keep a box fan in all of my kids' room's since they were first born (turned in the opposite direction of course). The constant noise helped them sleep through the night for the most part and it also drowns out household noises or street noises that might startle them awake. In my opinion, as long as there is no fever (usually comes with teething) or obvious teething signs (drooling, chewing on fingers), they have a dry diaper and are in no obvious pain, let them cry for 5 to 10 minutes before you go in to sooth. A few soothing touches, paci or blankie and very little talking then leave the room. Stay consistent. I do think that 5 months might be a little too young to try it but you're the only one who can say for sure since it's your baby. Bottom line, do what makes you feel comfortable. There is no hard and fast rule for all babies. They are all unique and good luck.
D~
(mom of 4 and one more due in 6 weeks!)

Hello!

You already have some great advice. I just wanted to add a few things...

1. We didn't start sleep training our oldest until he was 11 months. I'm so happy for your family that you would like to start earlier!
2. We started training our second one when he was 6 months old. It worked really well for us, and it was a lot easier.
3. For both of the boys, they took 3 nights before they just went to sleep by themselves.
4. It is hard. You and your husband need to be committed to it. If one of you is having doubts, the other needs to step up and be strong.
5. You can do it!

Jen,
Is it possible your baby is waking up more often because he is hungry? If that is the case maybe you should try giving him a little cereal before bedtime to fill up the tummy a bit and that could help him sleep through the night. I think we started my son on cereal at 5 or 6 months. Its something you maybe want to call your doctor about and check. Some say its okay to do at 5 months and some say not to. Just depends. I would let me son cry for 15 minutes before going in and re-tucking into bed. as he got older though i would let him cry longer only because i knew he was throwing a tantrum. So like some other moms on here have said you can tell the difference in babies crying just try to get a feel for what means what. Just keep strong and find a method that works for you! Good Luck!

Hi Jen, we did this with our oldest when she was about 9 months or a little less and it did rip our hearts out. Be ready to feel like Mommy Dearest. We started with about 5 min (ours normally didn't cry at all then when she learned to pull up on the side of the crib would hollar and not go to sleep). So we started with 5 min and we would go in, lay her back down pat her back to calm her then leave again. We never picked her up and loved on her and never talked to her (other she the shhhh noise). It tood about a week. 1st night was about 5 min between going in and then the 3rd night was about 10 min. We tried to keep her from getting to the all out frenzy point. By the 4th night she had it pretty well figured out that we were not going to get her out of that bed but I think she tried a couple more nights just to be sure. Then after about a week we had no troubles at all. It's hard, but in the long run it will be so worth it to both you and your child. We have always had the rule of this this your bed and this where you sleep. But have tried to let our kids know from day one if they need us we're there. So thats why we would always check on then, give a back pat and then leave again. And now that they are older we just tell them if they need us let us know. My little one is scared of thunder stoms and she knows that's the only time that she can come to our bed. I think that as long as they know that if they need you you'll be there they can go to bed OK. Good luck and God Bless!

Hmmm a couple of suggestions...if you don't have a tie it on the crib light up music box GET ONE. We had the Fisher price Aquarium and it was a lifesaver with my daughter!

Do you have any bink leashes? If not they are easy to make with a 10" ribbon and some glue or snaps super sewn on...tie one on the crib so he can get at a pacifier when he sees it.

As for the cry method that I was taught. You were to sit by the bed the first night until he fell asleep. The next night move the chair 3' closer to the door. Repeat everynight until you are sitting in hall when baby goes down. Make sure to leave some sort of night light on too.

My daughter has always been a good go-down kid...I rocked her before I put her in her crib and she's stay down until about 5 am...then she'd entertain herself with her music box until 7 or 8.

As for the how can you tell the difference between cries question...have you really listened to his cries? Spend the next 48 hours REALLY LISTENING when he cries for a bottle, for food, when he's tired. I think you'll begin to notice that there is a different tone about them. You really have to pay attention to them to get it...some don't (DH never did) but I could tell if it was a wake up cry, hungry, wet, come get me, etc. LOL... Sometimes it's just a process of elimination. At this point all he does is eat, sleep, and poop/pee. If you've checked all three and he's still crying it's either for attention or something is wrong. At 5 1/2 mos you are broaching on the cutting teeth time so keep running your fingers over his gums to check on those and have the Orajel ready or something cold to teeth.

BTW- everytime you hear your child cry it hurts your heart....but you know that a little crying has to happen for them to learn to soothe themselves. We can't and won't always be there for them. If it goes one too long, then definitely go back but know that sometimes they just need to cry themselves to sleep because they still don't have the words to tell us what's really bothering them.

I'll keep mine short and just a supportive message ... you have lots of great advice already. We have done the cry it out method with all 3 of our kids. It was recommended by our pediatrician and I was pleasantly surprised at how quick it took to set in. Literally 2 days and my kids were done crying at nap time and bed time. The first day is always the hardest. Our pediatrician recommended letting them cry for 30 min or until they vomit ... it sounds harsh, but your sanity is worth it. Good Luck!

1. Try starting with 5 minutes. Check on him, but try not to pick him up, turn on the lights, or speak to him. Pat him on the back and then walk away. Gradually increase the time between check-ins to 10 minutes, then 15, then 20, etc... UNLESS you get the feeling that you are making it worse by going in there. If he is starting to slow down and your entrance makes him ramp up the screaming again, DON'T GO IN. It just takes a lot of trial and error.

2. This is the nagging doubt that keeps parents going in time and time again, thereby training their children to keep screaming, keep waking up, keep expecting attention. If he's ill or teething, that should be apparent during the day as well. These things don't suddenly materialize when you leave the room. I always got tricked by the wet/poopy diaper, though. So I always feel the diaper (from the outside) to see if it's soaking. If you can't smell a poopy diaper when he's dressed, then I suppose you'll be compelled to check it now and then to make sure that's not the problem.

Once you are certain that your baby is not hungry, wet, or otherwise uncomfortable, you can be reasonably certain that the only problem is that he wants to sleep in your arms. If he's happy in your arms and only yells when you put him down, there's a clue.

3. 5 1/2 months is not too soon. You can improve the situation but don't ever expect total perfection. Kids wake up at night. At 6 months, at 2 years, at 5 years...they will find reasons to wake up at night. With a little experience, you'll know when you have a bad habit forming. Sometime they really are sick or uncomfortable, but most of the time it's just something inexplicable that they will turn into a regular routine if you give them the chance.

Strongly recommend you read Ferber: http://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp...

and Weissbluth: http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Sleep-Habits-Happy-Child/dp...

I'll just add that after you get through the first few weeks of getting your son to sleep, you'll figure out very quickly if he's awake b/c he's in pain, teething, etc. My daughter was an excellent sleeper after we got her sleeping through the night and if she woke up I always knew something was wrong so I went in. It rarely took a lot of work to get her back to sleep and it didn't happen very often.

Good luck! I agree that adequate sleep makes you a normal person!

try a bottle of water in his bed and why can't he get his own pacifier when he wakes up? We had a light that came on when the baby cried.. was one of the crib attached type and also played a song if you had the music option on. I didn't have a nightlight for any of them on constantly because I didn't want them to get used to sleeping with a light but did have the crib light that worked well if they woke up at night and would usually find their bottle of water and take a few sips then go back to sleep on their own. Sometimes I would hear them play with the crib toy too for a few minutes and then would fall back asleep.
I wouldn't let him cry over 10 minutes at a time but don't go in right away and see if he calms himself back to sleep on his own.
Don't know if the bottle of water will help but worked for me. All 3 of my kids slept through the night at least 8 hours by 2 months and they got water in the night and didn't eat before 5:30 am then would usually fall back asleep after their 5:30 am feeding until 8 or 8:30.