Bedtime Issues -- 5 Month Old

We began using the 'sleeplady shuffle' about 1.5 weeks ago and are having great success! from the book "Goodnight, Sleep Tight" by KIM WEST.
it is working!

Try using a dvd with lots of music & colors that he can viscal on. Also a little ceral befor bedtime will help him get tired!

We are currently in the process of working on sleep training our 6 mo. old son. He was a pretty good sleeper and even gave up is middle of the night bottle (we give he BM, not formula -- so that isn't an excuse for not being able to give up the nighttime feeding) at around 4.5 mo. However, around 5-ish mo. he started having trouble sleep. He goes down pretty easily at 7:30pm (bath, bottle, 10 mins +/- rocking), but then he would wake up arounf 10 - 11pm and we'd pretty much be up all night. He would sleep, but only if held.

I also, was VERY against the cry-it-out method. However, after 3 weeks of basically no sleep and both my husband and I working full-time, we reluctantly decided to try the cry it out. Being that I was the one against the CIO method, I wanted to have VERY clear guidlines as to how long to let our son cry.

So, 2 nights ago we started and I have to say things are already better. The first night, we laid our son down following his bedtime routine (minus the rocking) and he cried for 15 - 20 mins. We went to check on him in the following increments: 3mins -- 5 mins -- 10 mins for every time following. At 11pm he woke up and we followed the same routine. He fell back to sleep just as I was headed to his room the first time. He work up again at arounf 3:30am and cried for about 15mins (we followed the same time increments). He then slept until 7am. Last night he again cried for 15mins (we followed the following time increments: 5 mins -- 10 mins -- 12 mins) at bedtime. But he only woke up once around 3am crying for about 15 mins. He then slept until 6:30am.

Again, I know that this was not what you wanted to hear. But we tried just about everything prior to this. My husband and I agreed to give it a week and see how it is going. But even with the tears (and he does wail for a little while) and even with the brief interruptions at night, everyone in the house seems better. Our son is still thrilled to see us in the morning and doesn't seem tired or cracky. And Mom & Dad both feel better as well.

If you do decided to try this and want a little more advice, please feel free to contact me directly at ____@____.com.

I wish you the best of luck!

K. --
My son is 7 months and he goes through terrible sleeping periods. I do think it's just part of being a baby, so know that you aren't alone and that it WILL get better!
As far as advice is concerned, I agree that if your husband is the one who has very strong feelings about what to do/not do, then he better be very involved. Putting a fussy baby to bed is very stressful, and I know my husband and I often have to switch off so that we both are able to stay calm. As soon as one of us gets stressed out, it seems like our son picks up on it right away. The calmer we stay, the easier it is to get him to sleep.
A couple of suggestions:
Is he hungry? I know that sounds ridiculous, but make sure he's very well fed before bed. When ds falls asleep and he hasn't had his last meal, he almost always wakes up in the next hour, howling and hungry. A well fed baby is a better sleeper.
Try a LATER bedtime. I know, I'm sure everyone has been telling you that he's probably overtired and you need to put him to sleep earlier. A later bedtime made a HUGE difference for us. We initially tried to put our son to sleep around 7:30-8:00pm because that's what everyone told us to do. He'd fall asleep (we had the routine, blah blah blah) but then he'd wake up about an hour later just screaming. I honestly think he wasn't really tired. Now he goes to sleep about 9:30-10pm and he usually sleeps until approx. 3am. (He's breastfed, so I don't expect him to sleep through the night.) The later bedtime works better with our schedules, and because he falls right to sleep it is MUCH less stressful for us.
Most importantly, all of you (you, your husband, and the in-laws) need to be on the same page. Whatever you all decide, you ALL need to do it. It does sound like your husband has very strong opinions about this, so HE needs to be doing some research and come up with some ideas too. I know, easier said than done, lol.
GOOD LUCK! I really hope you start getting some sleep soon. Let us know if anything works for you!
A.

Hi K.,

The sleep stuff is SO challenging. I feel for you. I agree with some of the other responses that it sounds like your little one is overtired at bedtime. This may be difficult given your full-time workload, but I'd suggest trying to put him to bed yet earlier if you can. Our 5-month-old goes to bed at 6 p.m. with just 3-5 minutes of fussing most nights, but if we get him to bed even 15-20 minutes later than that, he can have a lot of trouble falling asleep. I realize that a 6 p.m. bedtime might not be practical for you, but it might help to put him to bed as early as you possibly can. Note that it might take several days of trying before he gets used to the new bedtime--or to any new strategy you try. Best of luck to you; you must be exhausted, yourself. Take care, Juliet

P.S. I'm not sure whether your husband would be comfortable with this or not (and, absolutely, both parents need to feel comfortable and on board with any parenting strategy if it's going to work for the family), but have you checked out the Sleep Lady Solution? It does involve some crying (starting at age 6 months, I believe), but a parent is there to support the baby as he learns to fall asleep. You may well have read that book, too, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

P.P.S. I agree with Jen, too: We started our transition (from car seat to crib) at naps when our baby was less exhausted, and then went on to transitioning at nighttime. And we still swaddle, too, which seems to make a big difference at the sleep transitions.

Hi - I really feel for you! We have had the same issue on and off since about 4 months (our daughter is now 16 months). We have not done the cry it out method and I don't plan to either. Something we found that worked really well with the bedtime plan was to start about 6.30 pm with a bath, then a massage, teeth clean, books, and then into bed at 7pm. We lay our daughter in the crib and place a hand on her shoulder/back - she's sort of sleeping on her side with her leg over though when she was smaller she always slept on her back. We don't talk or do much other than make long shushing sounds if she is upset, but we don't pick her up or do anything else. We were up at about 1 hour for ages and now it only takes about 20 minutes or less. We still have trouble with naps, but just keep trying to do the same routine so that she knows the cues and hopefully we will get there. We made the "mistake" of giving her crutches to sleep that wouldn't always be there - eg. breastfeeding her before her nap. Probably the holding while he sleeps is something that your babe doesn't want to give up - understandably. It will be rough for a while but hopefully you'll get through the patch and have a kiddo who enjoys their bed. We still don't have one of "those" kids - the ones who just lay in their bed and drift off to sleep, but it is getting a tiny bit easier over time. I think there are just lots of kids who are not those model sleepers you hear about!! Good luck and try earlier bedtimes. Everything I have read (and that is a lot on the subject of sleep) has said between 7 to 7.30pm is about as late as you should go with a baby (even older toddlers).

A.

Sounds like you're doing what you can. Have you tried dimming the lights during the quiet time before bed. That might help. When I had issues I let my kid cry for 10-15 minutes and then I'd check if she was too hot/cold, poopy, wet, teething, fever, etc. If I did all that I could I'd leave and wait another 10-15 mintutes. I had to be tough but after I've done what I could without starting a bad habit it was easy to let her cry. Unless you want to rock and sleep with your child then start that habit. My doctor says to do the cry it out but check in every so often. Your child will get tired and fall asleep. The more and more you do thing the less time it'll take. It'll become the new routine. Good luck.

I am a 35yo mom to four wonderful kids, girl-6, triplets (boy, boy, girl- 4). Bedtime routines can be tricky. It sounds like you've tried many things. Ultimatly, by that age, if they are fed, dry diaper, and are healthy,(no colds, flu, ear-infections, etc.)they do need to sooth themselves to sleep at some point. Children of all ages, infant-up, wake many times at night, the point is to let them put themselves back to sleep. If your infant cries in the middle of the night, make sure they are dry/clean and lay them back down awake. Some crying is healthy for them as it helps to develope their lungs. At bedtime, I would feed, change, rock a little, and lay him down once he looks drowsy, but not asleep. There will maybe be some crying at first, but then he will chatch on (they are smarter then we give them credit for sometimes) and you will all rest better. The sooner you can get him into his own crib, the better. This worked well with all of my children. Good luck.

Hi K.-

This is probably not the answer that you want to hear, but I think you need to let him cry it out :( I think this is the only thing that works. I do understand that it is REALLY, REALLY hard, but it would probably only take 2-3 nights of doing it. We did it with our little guy, and now he typically sleeps 10-12 hours without interruption.

Good luck!

Hi,
I understand your struggle. I could have written much of it myself. I have a 10 month old that was very similiar. If you want to call, I would be happy to talk with you and share ANYTHING that I learned and listen to you. I may not be able to help but I can at least empathize. The longest my daughter slept for the first 9 months of her life was 45 minutes at a time. Things are much better now though. Please feel free to call. K.

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You're writing for advice, and you're reading all the books, but your husband is the one with rigid ideas. It sounds like he should be doing the research and handling bedtime if he knows what is best.

How is his nap schedule? Is he sleeping enough during the day? It does sound like he is overtired. I would even try moving his bedtime earlier depending on when his last nap is. We read Weisbluth and it worked great for us. We found that the good naps made all the difference in the world.
Have you tried having him sleep with you? Good luck

What has worked for us is keeping the routine short and sweet. Everytime we go into Jack's bedroom for a sleep period, we close the door (usually the only time we do so), close the curtains; then he knows what to expect. We cuddle for a couple of minutes, talk about the day or whatever then in the crib. We've done this since he was about 4 months old and prior to this point he used to cry about 10-15 hours a day. Just so you know it hasn't always been easy. As for the crying before bed, we do interval soothing. 5 minutes of crying then 5 or so minutes of soothing, back in the crib. Lather rinse repeat until the sleep takes over. I find that it reminds him that I'm still here when he's upset, but that its sleep time.

ETA: I totally agree with the other poster Jen; the in-laws have to do the same routine!! Also, don't try anything new at night, do it at naps when you are reasonable refreshed.

Do yourself, the hubby and the baby a favor and get hold on this now - I have friends who still go through this with their 3 year olds and it starts when they are babies. What worked for me was simply giveing a warm bath, a "snack" bottle and then puttin my daughter in her crib. If she fussed or cried and we ignored it knowing all her physical needs had been met, then we let her fuss until she went to sleep. It was frustrating at first, but with each passing night, the fussing lessened and it let her know we were in control of the situation...and it never made her wake up crabby in the morning either, and it taught her that she was the child and we were the parents - she is now a happy healthy college student :-)

We had a bit of trouble with my son staying asleep at night when I started back to work, and my doctor gave us some good advice:

1. Drop the lengthy "good night" routine, even though every book says you need one. We don't even change his diapers in his room at night anymore. We get him ready downstairs, nurse for a bit if needed, then at the 7:20-7:45 pm mark, tired or not, we carry him up, put him in his crib, whisper a few sweet things, then leave him. It works like a charm--not a peep from him most nights till 5 am when we get him up for nursing. The problem with sleep routines: if he wakes up in the night for any reason (like we all do), he will need the sleep routine to go back to sleep every time. Yes, we still have a routine of sorts, but it's downstairs, out of his room, so he's less likely to need it when he's in his room.

2. My husband handles all the in-the-night outbursts because I'm nursing. Babies can actually smell our milk up to 20 feet away, not to mention the fact that I = food to him, so if I were to comfort him in the night, he would be less likely to calm down without eating. And we don't want to start midnight feedings again! (He eats plenty during the day!) If our son cries in the night, my husband goes in, pats him a little, gives the pacifier, and leaves. Short and sweet, just a little reassurance. We give him ten minutes to cry, but he's usually asleep again in two minutes. It is very rare for him to get up in the night these days.

3. Remember that crying is not a bad thing for babies--it relieves stress and can actually relax them. It's harder on us listening than it is for them!! Every morning, he's still delighted to see us.

4. Babies need to know the difference between night and day--during the day we tend to his every want and need, but at night, he needs to sleep, and he needs to learn that.

Anyway, just my two cents! Good luck!

My suggestion would be to swaddle. I know some people would argue maybe that he's too old for it, but we had to swaddle our 21 month old son until he was at least 6 months old. That's how long it took for him to loose the jerking reflexes that would wake him up. Swaddling was very soothing for him - although he cried when he was being swaddled (he calmed very shortly after).

Also, I think naps is when it's best to start sleeping in the crib. Mainly because then you are being sleep deprived while trying to figure this out. You need to explain to your in-laws that you love having them watch their grandson for you while you work, but in order for them to truly help you out they need to put him in a crib/pack 'n play for naps.

I hope this helps.

I had this problem with my in-laws who do day care for me too. You need to talk to them and ask them not to hold him while he sleeps. Who wouldn't prefer being held by a warm, loving body over a cold, impersonal crib? Even now, with my 4 year old and 2 year old, if my in-laws let the boys sleep after 4pm, I know I'm not getting either of them to sleep before 9:30-10pm. So you may check to see that he isn't sleeping too late in the afternoon.

I did the "bad" thing of letting both of my children fall asleep in my lap while I was rocking them and then putting them down when they were asleep for the first 12 months of their lives. Despite this, they both sleep fine now. Both may play around in their beds for awhile, but ultimately they fall asleep on their own just fine. I do use one of the fisher price aquariums in both of their beds. The music and lights work wonders to sooth them at night. I will even hear the music go off in the middle of the night without hearing any fussing. So my kids wake up, hit the music on, and then are able to fall back to sleep on their own.

You are doing everything you can. Some kids are not good sleepers. It is NOT a reflection on your parenting skills. All I can say is keep doing what you're doing, accept that you are doing what you can, and accept that there isn't a single miracle solution to get the baby to sleep when you want. As your son gets older, becomes more active and mobile, he will be more worn out at night and sleep more regularly. Try not to worry about it even though I know how hard that is when you are exhausted and feeling like you are failing.

One last suggestion... you mention that "we follow the same routine" - does that mean that you and your husband are working together at the same time trying to get him to sleep, or do you alternate, or is the burden falling mainly on you? If you are doing it together, I would suggest alternating nights so that you can each get enough sleep on every other night. If you are doing it alone, I would suggest getting your husband more involved with the nighttime ritual so he can experience the stress of it all.

Good luck. (Don't worry... before you know it, your kid is going to be running around and sleeping just fine.)

When my son was 5 months old, we swaddled him during the night. That seemed to work for him. I would definitely not use the ferber method yet. He is way too young for that. Once he gets to be over a year old and still not sleeping well, then consider it. But 5 months is too young for that. Also, try and have your in laws teach him how to fall asleep on his own. Holding him while he sleeps during the day isn't a good habit to get into. Then he will expect that at night. They need to gradually switch to laying him down to sleep.
Good luck.

I just wanted to let you know that we are having the same problem my son has always fought going to sleep. I have to feed him than rock and sing when I get hime to sleep I have to put him in are bed and lay with him for about 30mins so I know he is sleeping and than I got about an hour before he will wake up crying than I have to change his diaper (if wet) and than lay with him in are bed and that is were we are my husband and I do not even sleep in the same room any more because he will not sleep with the baby in the room. This is the only thing that I have found that works. We start at 7:30 and I maybe have enough time clean up dinner mess and it is back to trying to get him alseep. I have found that once I am in bed with him for the night he sleep well. Everyone tells me to let him cry it out but I cann't cause my husband can not handle the crying and he gets so worked up that he will start to chock and cough and than up comes the bottle. GOOD LUCK and it you find anything that works please let me know.

I would have to agree with the other mom Betti. It sounds to me like you are tying everything. Has your husband had a part in the bed time routine? Does he do the actually rocking soothing boncing and so on or is it just you? Maybe you need to let him try for a week and see if he can handle it any better.
With both of my children I knew when they would go to sleep. For ex: If I rocked my daughter and she would fall asleep at 8pm and do this consistently for a week. I would then start a new routine. Ex I would give her her usually bottle before bed and then at about 7:45 or so I would lay her in her bed. With her blanket and plub and turn the lullaby music on and turn oit on low and shut the door. Try and let your son try to put himself to sleep. It may be hard at first and he may cry but check on him make sure that he is ok and then leave the room. You are only starting bad habits having to rock him and do his soothing for him. Hope you find something that works good luck.
In addition I would let your in laws know that he needed to be layed down when sleeping and that might also help you out in the bedtime tremendously.
Also the co sleeping in my opnion is a horrible habit to start. They know when you are there and I am sure that is another huge part of him only sleeping for 5-10 min after you lay him down at night because he expects you to be there.
YOu should try doing the nap routine the same as the bedtime routine all together at the same time. Only doing one over the other is only going to confuse him and make things worse.

I read somewhere that when you try something new you should try and give it two weeks so that baby can adjust. To me, 9:00 pm may sound to late. Also, it could be his last nap is to close to bed time, even if it is just a cat nap. For us, I feed my son at 8pm and then lay him down. But we used a form of letting him fuss to go to sleep, so I try not to rock him to sleep anymore, unless he his sick and cant sleep or is having trouble sleeping away from home. It his hard work to get them used to falling asleep on their own, but I think it works. Something to try, laying him down and then going in there every 10 min to reasure him and then leaving again. Try not to pick him up, we found that makes it worse for our son.

I too have a 5 month old daughter and it sounds like we've had the same problem. In fact, we probably still do occasionally. Our little one's issue is actually that she's teething and has issues with her digestion still. She now goes to bed at around 9:30-10pm. I don't know if what we've found will help at all, but feel free to take what you want. Her bedtime routine is a bit longer than everyone, including the books suggest. It starts with the changing of diaper, turning down the lights, putting on the nightclothes (turned out to be important to ours to have a sleep blanket she associates with NIGHTTIME sleep and not naps. Then we go upstairs, turn on her favorite CD, Janet Jackson, and bounce on her stability ball for like 45 mins. I play a computer game while I'm doing this so that I'm not talking or playing with her at all. The lights are low and the rhythm actually soothes her, even though it's dance music. Then I take her back to the bedroom, without talking to her and feed her til drowsy and then lay her down in her crib. Then I wait. I lay down in my bed and when she cries the kind of cry that isn't going to stop, I get up and rock her for a couple, put her down and start over again. It doesn't take as long as it used to, because she knows that I'm there. She feels safe and drowsey and keeps going to sleep easier and easier. When her teeth are hurting real bad we do give her tylenol and that really helps!

Hope something in here is helpful!! Good luck!

Just wondering if you tried this. A new dad at my workplace said they put their baby to sleep with her head elevated and it helped a lot. When people hold babies they usually have their heads up a little. I wish I had heard that when mine were younger. Swaddling sounds like a good idea also.