Competitive Gene?

There is a difference between "working relentlessly" and PUSHING relentlessly. Successful people tend to have a goal in mind, and work at that, until the goal is achieved. Extremely competitive people push OTHER people, and them selves, until they are better.

In actuality VERY competitive people (in real life) are not usually very successful. They actual unravel, quite a bit. They push, to their detriment. They push others, they push beyond their capabilities, they push unrealistically. Successful people, on the other hand achieve goals. There only competition is really themselves, and they have to work around limitations, and be clever and flexible in how the achieve their goals. Competitive people see everything and everyone, as a threat and competitor. (Even when they are not.)

As someone who played at a VERY high level in sports, I will say there are some competitive people in sports. They will step on everyone to get ahead. Usually, they aren't they best players, and the worst teammates. Sports are MOSTLY filled with people who have a gift, and see there sport as a sort of job. If they are a defender, there job is to defend, and consider themselves the last line of defense. However, they don't consider their jobs to be better then everyone, and take everyone down. Successful people, can work as a team. People who are simply competitors, can't. They actually rarely achieve goals.

Olympic athletes and elite athletes, are people who recognize they have a gift, and are COMPETITIVE for their goals, they aren't COMPETITORS. See the difference? They give all of themselves to achieve their dreams. Competitors are worried about everyone else around them. They take everything from everyone else, so they also can't be considered the best. Big, BIG difference.

First: I have to highly recommend that you read Laura Hillenbrand's Unbroken. It is the true story of Louis Zamperini. Not only one of the best books I have ever read, but also made me think a lot about exactly the issue you address here...
My oldest, who is only 6 now, obviously has a love for all things sports. He LOVES to play, but I find that in baseball and other sports, he is more careful not to get in the way of his teammates than to get to the ball etc. I think his dad has taught him to be somewhat competitive, but in the end, I don't think he was born with that "drive" that you talk about.
ON THE OTHER HAND...my 2.5 year old son has already made it clear to us that he is not only competitive, but will do whatever it takes to get what he wants. The pediatrician, family members, and friends have referred to him as "spirited" :) It reminds me so much of Louis Zamperini - he was this crazy, uncontrollable kid, but once he found his passion (running) he became the best of the best (World Record holder). Then he went on to survive the most amazing of circumstances in WWII...they say in the book (I can't remember if it is Zamperini himself or the author that says this) that some people are born with this ZEST...something inside that makes them push harder...survive longer...find something inside themselves to go that extra mile.
However, I do believe that if you are not born with this "zest" you can still be very successful. Maybe you need it in sales, but remember that being compassionate like your children opens doors to them in so many other ways.
They can be successful in industries like healthcare - where you need some serious empathy to be a good doctor. Also, remember that measuring success isn't about money - they could be successful counselors or working for not-for-profits that help other people.

AND - since most people on this site are MOMMIES - we know how successful a parent/spouse you can be when you are kind, gentle, respectful, and compassionate...is there any greater success in life??

I'm just glad our society offers enough professional options that we don't all have to be competitive to succeed.

For my shy, gentle, precocious six-year-old, the profession I think might suit him best is ... librarian.

I just hope our society and economy will continue to support such options. I lose sleep fearing that it won't.

There's nothing wrong in being competitive, IMHO. Genes or not, if someone (adult or child) wants to do his or her best, it is just their choice to focus, do their best, and look forward to feeling happy with the results.
There is also difference in personalities, attitudes and choices. Don't think there are any generalised rules regarding them. My dad used to push me to play games when I was a child. After a point where I started understanding a game, I'd get angry if he deliberately lost. I let him know that I wanted to play my fair game, and wanted him to play his. So, he ended up winning more than me, but I still enjoyed it more, because I knew I truly tried my best. Different perceptions...
Of course, there are people to whom being competitive isn't fun. That is OK too! People still will remain who they are.. :)
PS: Of course, if someone ends up being mean to others, all in the name of being competitive, then that is a different attitude problem...

I would think it's more learned, than genetic. Some adults may be more competitive, and therefore that is where their kids learn that behavior, rather than it being something in their genetic make-up. Sometimes it is just the personality you are born with. My brother is far more competitive than me, and my father was far more competitive than my mother, but both of them expected both of us to always try our best in everything we did.

There's nothing wrong with winning, so long as you don't compromise your values in the process. The truth is, the world is competitive, that's just the way things work. In my veterinary school class, there were about 500 people that applied for 100 spots. Nowadays, it is closer to 800 to 900 people trying to get in, for 100 spots. They can't just let everyone into vet school who wants to go. It's based on grades, test scores, and who they think will be able to handle the program and be a successful veterinarian. Eventually, NOT "every kid gets a trophy."

No, winning isn't everything, but what matters is if people are happy in their own lives and their idea of "success." We don't have to be pushy or aggressive about it, and it's nice that your kids are as nice and kind as they are, but there is a point where we can't all be door mats either, and have to stand up for what we believe in, and for ourselves. Don't confuse being competitive with being ambitious.

Yes, some are more successful than others because of their "killer instinct".

Some make good employees and would not make good employers.

That's why America is so successful.

What is holding America back from being even more successful are the things that keep people from making good choices and limits the freedom of employers from hiring the best people.

What are those things that keep America from being more successful that she is? Welfare allows people to be lazy and have basic needs met without working. EEOC makes it where employers have to hire the best person of a certain race or sex, instead of hiring the best person for the job.

I know of lots of examples where the best, most qualified, most educated person was not hired (or promoted) and a less educated or even uneducated, unqualified person was hired because of government regulations and requirements. So the business suffered because of government interference.

Good luck to you and yours.

Well a LONG time ago, I was training for the Olympics... So I'm THAT level of competitive in sports.

But I couldn't sell snow to Eskimos.
Heck, I couldn't sell FIRE.

I can't sell anything to save my life.

Honestly, most competitive athletes I know are the same way. It's about driving YOURSELF, not others (sales is driving others). I mean the BitchQueens who'll kick a 4yo in the face exist for sure (nancy, I am referencing you, and that little girl who needed stitches all up and down her face because of your blade).

And I'm shite at politics. Ugh. That degree of competition makes me physically ill (from PTA to office to government... Politicking period. I can SEE it, I can understand it, heck... I can even respect it. But I can't do it.)

Interpersonal competition also rubs my fur the wrong way. One upmamship, one downmanship, putting others in 'their place', queen bee, etc.? No thanks.

Ditto religious competition (really, let god sort them out, don't place yourself as the Judger of All... Whether its crusades, Christian reformation in the past, Islamic reformation now... It's just stupid.)

<grin> So I'd have to disagree!

I totally believe this. Look at the Olympians and how long they have trained. Demanding that they continue, instead of whining about practice or the pain.

One of the girls from our neighborhood has always been a competitor. She could catch any type of ball when she was 3. She is still an amazing athlete and scholar, but it makes her so mad that her younger water is taller than her. She says she always wanted to be the tallest.

It is their mother that is also a competitor. She never LET her children win board games. She allowed them to honestly beat her... I sometimes fudged, so our daughter could win, I was also trying to model a good loser attitude.
I think it is just in them at birth.

I completely agree that you have to be born with that competitive spirit in order to do really well in sports and often in business. No matter what athletic ability your son has, if he doesn't have that killer instinct, which he does not, he will never be a top athlete. It's good that you recognize that and accept and appreciate it.

It's funny, because I'm kind of a jock, but I have always lacked the killer instinct, too, and to this day I get mad at myself for always having to say "sorry," every time I bump into someone while playing a sport. People like that do better in individual sports, like swimming.

Competitiveness, like any other trait, has pros and cons. More successful/less nice, typically. Oh well.

I love a good competition. I love playing the game, or going after a goal. Winning isn't just a score. I have lost a lot in life when scores were kept. But have won much more with what I got out of the competition.

Yes I have a drive of competitiveness with the ultimate goal to be to win. I truely competitive athlete, sales person knows how to lose and learn from it.

I have stopped to help the other team get up, much like your son. During many sports games I've said "I'm sorry"...during many meetings at work I've said the same thing.

Growing up I played competitive softball. We practiced hard we played hard we won some we lost (a lot). In my twenties I was asked to join the work softball team (as they heard I played competitively)...The first thing they said to me was "Just so you know we play for fun!"...as an athlete I thought I understood that everyone plays for fun...you play cause you enjoy the game. I quickly found out what "play for fun" meant to those that are not "youth comp athletes)....

You're right we need both in this world. I don't think all those sales competitors are/were the sports competitive kids. *yes there are some...but many of the best sports competitors I know are not the over-achievers in their work life. Like for me...I have a job where there are goals and I make them...but I could never have a job where I had to compete another co-worker. Or negotiate with people I don't know. That type of competition is not up my alley.

My hunch is that an extrememly competitive person (to the exclusion of all else) tends to be a dopamine-dominant person.

Eric Braverman has a fascinating book called "The Edge Effect" which talks about the effect of neurotransmitters on your entire body, including your personality. They're a smaller slice of the population, thank God LOL. And of course it's all a continuum.

I also think you can see it with a touch of narcissism (not that all ultra competitive people are narcissists, not by any stretch).

My son is super competitive and always has been. It is a good thing but can also be a bad thing. He wants to be the biggest, strongest, best at everything. And he is good at whatever he touches. He picked up a golf club and hit the ball a lot farther and straighter than I ever could (he is 7) we played volleyball (yes the net was low for the kids but he never played before and was overhand serving it. Not perfect but it all seems to come to him naturally. He batted 1.000 his first year in coach pitch baseball this past year. Here is the bad thing. If he would have struck out he would have been devestated although we always pulled up his favorite players stats to see what their batting average is and that its okay to strike out, or get out running the bases. He is his biggest critic and is too hard on himself sometimes. He will talk about the game for the entire week until the next game.

My daughter is very competitive when on the field. She is a leader as well seeing her play with her friends but she doesn't have that spark until she hits the field during game time. Even in practices she is reserved and doesnt give it 100% but man game time she turns into a beast. She plays it totally different though she spends the first few minutes (her sport is soccer) scoping everyone out and then uses that to her advantage and dominates. She is only 5 but even all the other parents and by the end of the game the parents on the other team tell me that they have never seen anything like her. Once the game is over she is done with it, doesnt talk about it nothing.

Both her dad and I are competitive when it comes to sports but come the business world I am not. I am a worker bee and dont want to be a chief. He is competitive at work as well and wants to strive in his occupation. I think that the ability to be good at things is genetic, and the competitive nature is learned.

I agree with you. I think this is part of inherent temperament...or not.

I don't really believe kids are born competative in nature. I do think it has a lot to do with their environment, parents, peers, and interests. Some interests just aren't competitive in nature; even though, some teachers try to make them competitive. Music and art are not ment to be competitive, but there are music/art competitions so a lot of artsy people/children really aren't competitive....Most of the time it's the teacher/parent that pushes them into competition. Some kids are into sports, which are competitive, and some are not. My son would be the perfect athlete. He can do everything...very flexibile, has a "good eye," faster than the other students in his class, stronger than the other students in his class, is the number 1 student in his phys ed class; even though, the students are 2 years older than him. He can twirl double swords and staves to the point they look like a helicopter blade. He taught himself how to play the ukulele and guitar, and plays as if he's been born with the gift. Guess what? Not interested in sports of any kind. He's really not interested in music either unless it's just playing around. His math skills are to die for, but he won't compete; even though, everyone knows he would win hands down. He's more in interested in being creative, which started off with drawing and now expanded to making videos and photography. I think it's great, but his father's not really to happy about it. His father was raised to be competitive like the rest of the kids from his home town in China. I feel it's ok. I just make sure he has enough credentials for college, so he's in band, film club, classic league...no not baseball...classic league as in Latin. That's all I ask and try to keep things less stressful. Sometimes competition can be too stressful.