Daughter Has a Mean Friend

The summer before my daughter started 6th grade we read the book "Queen Bees and Wannabes" outloud. I had read it the previous summer, so I knew it covered some pretty intense topics. Without discussing any of my daughter's friends, I think it helped her break away from a threesome who weren't being good friends to her. It also opened up a lot of topics with her. My husband (her father) was also in the car when we read it, so she feels like she can talk to him about a lot of things, too. She's 17 now. Just the other day I said to her, "I heard there's a lot of smoking weed at UC Santa Cruz." She just matter of factly said, "Yeah, I've heard that too." That segwayed nicely into talking about the advantages of "drug free dorms" and how there is some drinking and drugs at all college campuses -- you just have to learn to say no! For us, reading and discussing a book like Queenbees and Wannabees" really helped.

My daughter has a friend like that as well since 3rd grade but she started being mean in 7th grade. I have told my daughter that friends dont treat each other like that but they still become friends again after each incident. The girl knew I was really mad last time and was afraid I was going to be mean to her. I had talked to her mother once before but that didn't change anything. Now they are in 10th grade. My daughter gets mad at me when I talk about her. They are at that unrealistic stage where they think they will be bst friends for ever like we all thought until lives move on after high school.

Hello C.: As the mother of 5, and 2 of them being girls I have seen this a time a 2 over the years.
One of the things that I learned to do that was a very hard lesson for me--- was to take a step back, and not get myself involved as a friend of my child (because I am the parent, not her friend /buddy), and learn exactly what you were saying, not to sound childish and at that age group.
So respond as a parent of a child that is going to pick her own friends- and not all of her choices will be good ones at her age. What I did and I hope any of it will help you--
1. we talked about what my childs interests were and I found ways for her to be involved with other things so the kid I didn't want around just couldn't be there. I did this without really getting my own child in the middle of MY DECISION.
2. I found that one daughter,was a perosn that took on all others problems and was a caretaker for others-- not good-- so we talked about how she wasn't responsible for the needs of others at her age that it is just as much the other persons job to learn to fill thier needs without using someone up and wearing them out.
3. I flat asked what need does this person fill in her life that she can't let them go? She learned the lesson that the world didn't end when they stopped being friends.
If you are not friends with the other parent you might consider it just to see the other side of the picture. It will help you look at your own friends and see how you handle a unkind "friend". But for your family's sake just limit the contact. Say you have plans with your child and go someplace even if its for a walk, or she has things that have to be done for the family. At one point I lost it with one person and told my daughter she had" restriction" until she made 2 new friends that she had to spend time with and limit the time for old friends. Heck there were 1200 kids at her school I figured she could meet some one!! She has remained friends with that new person to this day and it is great. Parenthood is a thrill ride like no other. I know that you have many twists and turns yet to come. But I bet that you will be fine and both of you will come out at the end wonderful and close. Nana G

Dear C.,
I understand your predicament. I went through the same thing only with my son.
Just put a stop to it. Period. It doesn't matter who is right, who is wrong, but they obviously can't get along nicely for very long so as a mom, just put an end to it. Make sure your daughter understands that if the girl calls to come over, not to even bother asking. All she has to do is say, "My mom said no". Make it clear she's not to ask if she can go to the girl's house either. The answer is no. It's as simple as that. It's not immature and unforgiving. It's putting a stop to the up and the down and the back and the forth and the bickering and the crying.....
No more. Problem solved.
I wouldn't worry what the other mom thinks. It doesn't matter. You make the rules for your daughter.
(The situation with my son was further complicated by the fact that his "best" friend's parents were also my best friends. They are super nice people with a devious kid and they refused to believe their son would be mean because they didn't raise him to be like that. I told them my son was not allowed around their son anymore and it almost cost me my entire friendship with them, we'll never be as close as we used to be, but I was done with my son coming home in tears after being told no one likes him, no one wants him around and the only reason anyone puts up with him is because they like me. The dad was furious because he adores my son but the mom was like, they've been raised together like brothers and they'll get over it. They did get over it because I ended it. And if it meant the end of our friendship too, I was willing to pay that price. Their son has been in so much trouble since he got a new batch of friends and all I can say is that I know for a fact my son wasn't in the middle of any of it. I would have ended it then, pronto, if he had been. So either way, it needed to stop).

You'll be relieved, your daughter will be relieved....
It's just time to take control of the situation.

Best wishes!

Hi C.,
I have had these same issue's with one of my daughters friends. I am always shocked that after a couple weeks of not seeing her around, my daughter will be friends with her again. This has been happening for years. She is not my daughters best friend BUT wants to be.She will be mean, say mean things, or do something that I cannot Believe but my daughter will always end up forgiving her.
Just let it be.....
My daughter has cried many a time too....This last time, my daughter had wanted a specific haircut, and showed her "friend" the style in a magazine. Two days later the friend shows up at our house with,guess what, a new haircut! The same one my daughter "WAS" going to get.Well, needless to say, she won't be getting the haircut. She was mad for about a week, now they are friends again??
When I ask my daughter why, she says "Well, mom she doesn't have any other friends, really, so I will be her friend"....As a parent, I can't fight that!( I can't fight the fact that I raised a responsible girl)..... My daughter is a forgiving personality, who has many friends. She doesn't NEED to be friends with this girl, they don't even attend the same school, and our daughter has many other friends.
My daughter was raised to believe in herself.She is confident, and understands that her "friend" only does these types of things out jealousy, or her own lack of self confidence and self esteem. My daughter usually just feels a little sorry for her.
We all want to protect our kids from mean people BUT the reality of life is everyone has to deal with people like this. I say, just let them be. If your daughter wants to continue the relationship let her. She will figure out eventually that this type of person won't change. And hopefully your daughter will figure out that, and not let this person continue to hurt her feelings.
Girls, can be very mean. If raised right, they should know better. We all had to go thru this age, and I'm afraid to say that even I took the wrong road once or twice in school, just to follow the group. I Pray,daily, that I taught my daughter to be better than that...to follow her heart, to be true to herself & her friends.
P.S. Sorry, I had just read a couple of the other comments. I understand people wanting to protect thier kids BUT
these are NOT toddlers. If your daughter is raised to believe in herself you have no reason to worry. Discuss the situation with her. Comments like" Don't let them have playdates anymore"....What? Playdates??? These kids are on the edge of becoming adults, please don't treat your daughter like a toddler. It will just make it worse. As long as your daughter knows that she can't be pressured to be friends with anyone she doesn't want to be. That she can come to you at any time to discuss these types of things. That no matter what anyone else says, she is her own person. Let her be confident in that...Sorry, I have probably already said TOO MUCH, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings in anyway, but I feel strongly about letting kids handle thier own situations, whenever possible.
Good Luck

Hi C., your radar is tuned in and you shouldn't ignore all the warning signs. The trick is to find a way to let your daughter know what is going on in the long term without making her want to rebel and be friends with this "frienemy" just because you don't like the girl. I have a 14.5 year old and an 11.5 year old daughter so I know where you are in the child rearing cycle. I too had a bad news friend growing up and my parents did not like her at all. Unfortunately, there weren't alot of other kids around that I could choose from at the time. I stuck with her more out of lack of choice and resented my parents telling me that they didn't want her around. With that hindsight, I let my girls know what it is exactly that I think is mean and backstabbing about their friend but I let them make the choice about the friendship. I tell them first about my experience and that breaks the ice when we are talking. I also ask them directly if they maintain certain friendships out of loneliness, peer pressure, bullying or guilt. I have found that often it is because there is always one girl in every group that stirs the pot and keeps the drama flying. I think by verbally empathyzing with her and by understanding what is behind her returning to the friendship, you will figure out what is going on. I know it is heartbreaking for you to see your girl hurt over and over again.

The MOST mature and responsible thing you can do is anything keep them apart. If it were me, when the girl asks to come over I would say "No thank-you" and leave it at that. It's not 'petty' to protect your daughter from being a victim. First and foremost you need to teach your daughter to recognize when someone is mean to her, or innapropriate in any way, and how to respond to that. We teach first by example. Not taking any action to protect her is not the example you want to set. Teach her to stand up for herself. Teach her to say no.

My rule here is if the person is not treating you well at school, then they are not welcome in our home. Period. My thought is - why would a girl want to come over here if she's mean to my daughter at school? Basically that tells me that that the "friend" doesn't want to be friends at school because maybe my daughter isn't "cool enough" or "the most popular", but she really does like my daughter and will be friends with her when no one's looking. Um - I don't think so.

The core issue with my daughter was self esteem and learning to stand up for herself. Once she learned to do that she became much happier. But it's hard to stand up for yourself and then walk away esp. if you think your other friends will side with the bully friend. But she learned to do it most of the time. That's probably what your daughter needs to do.

I had one of these "friends" in High School. The best thing I ever did was to end our toxic friendship, but it may be that she won't be able to do that until she's older - I was 16 when I did it.

I agree with you, I wouldn't have her in my home. If the other girl wants to get together, have them get together at her house. If it goes bad, then end all playdates with the girl. You can't stop them from being friends at school, but you can limit their interaction.

As the mother of a 13 yr old girl and 16 yr old son, I feel for you and want to give you a little perspective...
ALL girls at one time or another are mean, even to their very best friends. It's disturbing but true. Your daughter has probably said and done things that would shock you.
I have an aquaintence who is a single mom. Her 13 yr old daughter tells her "everything" and they are very "close." Guess what? She doesn't know half of what her daughter is up to, including going to the creek to "hook up" with high school boys after school. She tells her mom she's at the library and she believes her. Her mother is so convinced that her daughter is a victim (of mean girls spreading gossip) she won't listen to anything else.
I'm not trying to be cruel, and I know this is a hard time for both you and your daughter. It's just been my experience that the girls who share the most with their moms are usually the ones who have more to hide. I have seen the proof...vicious text messages, video chats...from the NICEST, SWEETEST girls...it's appalling!
So hang tough, be a mom first and a friend second. My philosophy these days is to keep my mouth shut and my eyes and ears wide open!

Hi there,

I haven't had time to read the other replies (sorry!) but here is my opinion...

When I was a kid my mother encouraged me to be friends with two girls in the neighborhood who were really nasty to me. Looking back, I think it was convenient for her to have me play with them since they lived nearby, she was friends with their mothers, and my mother is the kind who doesn't stick up for herself either.

Anyway, I wish my mother had talked to me about how I felt about the friendships and encouraged me to be brave enough to let the friendships go because they were not healthy or happy ones for me. Looking back, I had a negative self-image in that time of my life, I think because of the way the girls treated me and because my mother always encouraged me to try to be friends with them instead of stand up for myself.

I don't think you are being immature or unforgiving at all. Of course, it is your daughter's decision who she wants to be friends with. But if she is continuing the friendship because she is wanting to be liked or fit in or whatever, it would be a good time to teach her that friendships should be nurturing and positive. And that there are certainly other kids she can have happy friendships with.

My daughter is only 2, so I am not experienced with this yet, but those are my two cents! Hope it helps a little. Let us know what happens!

H.

C.,

Imagine your daughter at age 17 and her mean friend is a boy? They got together at 14 and he’s been mean to her for three years. What would you do? You would probably wish you had done something about it when she was 14.

What would I do now?

No need to speak to the mean kids mother, she might be a piece of work herself. No need for you to feel petty, you have every right to steer you child in a different direction.

Tell your daughter straight out, people that treat you like dirt are NOT your friends! The mean girl will no longer be welcome in your home and your daughter will not be allowed to socialize with her outside of school. It should only be minimal and avoided whenever possible.

In other words, find some new friends and pick the one who treats you like a BFF should be treated.

You might need to get her involved in some outside of school activities, such as a dance class or sports activities where she will meet healthier kids to hang out with.

Blessings....

such a dilemma, know how you feel. i've read it is SO IMPORTANT to support their choice of friends. that they have a need for them at the phase of growth they're in. one thing i have made it a point to do-
if a situation comes up with a child that involves cheating or bullying i call the parent to inform them. matter of factly-thought you would want to know...i tell them I KNOW I WOULD WANT TO KNOW. the parents have: thanked me and expressed concerns of their own about their child or questioned the chilren's relationship. i have stayed positive and expressed "it takes a village" sort of positive statement or parenting is an adventure, or the like.
good luck,
G.

Hi C.,

This little girl has things going on and she is taking it out on your daughter. When she is at your house I would sit them both down and talk about what friends do for each other and how they are nice to each other and share experiences. Talk about how important it is to be nice to each other. I have had many talks with children and they understood and would talk about it after I left. Sometimes the parents have to show them how to make a difference.

Let me know how it goes.

Good luck.

N. Marie

Hi C.,

I agree with many of the Mom's, especially Rae W. Enough is enough! My daughter is 15 now, but she was "mis-used and abused" by girlfriends in Middle School, also. I cut those relationships off immediately. And, honestly, now my daughter is grateful, because those friends are the ones getting into trouble in High School. Trust me, High School is really different than Middle School. Stop it now. Just tell the girl, "Sorry, we are not available today.". If you say that a few times, she will stop calling.

Hope it all works out for your daughter and you - you are a GREAT MOM for caring!

Love, Patti

You may want to explore with your daughter why she seems to want to keep this "friend." You can try to take an indirect approach, by talking about some "friend" you had at her age who was mean, or some other girl you know of who allows mean "friends" to take advantage of her, or you can talk about how unhappy her friend must be, to be so mean, and tell her you certainly hope she doesn't behave like her friend does.

You may want to ask your daughter point blank, why do you like this girl? What does "friendship" mean to you? Talk with her about what being a "friend" means, and how you are concerned that she likes this girl so much, when the girl is so mean. Do not try to tell her directly she can't be friends with the girl, though -- that NEVER works.

At the same time, whenever you can, tell the "friend" that you are busy at such and such time, or when she calls to get together, tell her your daughter has something else set up for that time, and "maybe you can get together another time soon..." I have had to do that several times with kids I didn't like and didn't want around my son, but that was when he was seven or eight, and it will be harder for you with a 12 year old. Good luck!

Hi Collen,

My kids are small, so I don't have any experience in this area yet, but I thought I'd give some ideas anyway...

It sounds like you are very close to your daughter, and may be able to have some influence on her if you talk directly with her. I would ask your daughter what she likes about this friend. I would hear her out without interruption. The I would give you side of the story. I would say something like " Susan, I am not going to tell you who to like or who to be friends with because that is your choice. I have to be honest though... it makes me sad when Jane isn't kind to you and makes you sad and I don't think you deserve to be treated that way. I also don't really like how you and Jane act together when she comes to the house. ( Do you have examples of what you don't like?)

This is a great opportunity to work on your daughter's self-esteem and talk about good choices with her before she gets deep into being a teen and you have less influence on what she wants to do and who she wants to be friends with.

As far as the Mom goes, I'd talk to her too if you feel comfortable enough. You can start by saying that you realize that you've declined her daughter coming over and you'd really like to talk to her about why. Then sit down with mom and kindly tell her the reasons you don' want her daughter over. Maybe Mom has no idea how her daughter is acting. No Mom wants her child to be disrespectful in someone else's house or make other kids feel bad.

Good luck. This is such a hard one I think. You don't want to alienate your daughter by disapproving of her friends but it's hard to watch them to be hurt by kids that are no good for them.

Let us know how it goes!

My daughter used to allow herself to be abused by a friend and I put a quick end to it. I did my best to help her stand up for herself, but when that didn't work, I took it up with their school teacher and the other mom. This cannot be allowed to go on. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but you need to teach your daughter how to stand up for herself and not continue to have relationships that are harmful. Don't let the girl over until there are clear boundaries of appropriate behavior established with her and her mom / teacher. This girl will continue bullying and your daughter will continue to be bullied if you don't stop it now!

I used to be the girl who was bullied and it nearly ruined my entire time at high school because of the stress and lack of self-esteem being victimized caused. I also ended up in many abusive relationships with men until I finally got myself together. Being a victim can become a pattern that I don't think you want for your daughter.

Who is more important? The other girl and her mother or your daughter? Not to mention the other girl needs to be taught a lesson, that this behavior is unacceptable. Please take care of your daughter. Be her champion and show her how to be strong and get out of toxic relationships. This isn't just "kids being kids" and it has gone on long enough.

I am usually not so strong, but I know from personal experience how crucial this is at this time in her life. Please, please, take a stand and don't worry what others will think.

Talk to your daughter.

If you go over her head to the other girl's mother or make up rules without involving her, your daughter might experience it as a betrayal.

Tell her your concerns. See if you can't problem solve together. The relationship pattern that you set up with your daughter is more important at this moment than the outcome of this particular friendship. What happens when boyfriends, cars and parties come into the picture? What types of communication do you think will help you and your daughter navigate her teenage years? This is an opportunity to get on the same team, in my opinion.

I am sorry, today is not a good day to visit.
Go home, we have plans today.

Immature??? YOU are the mom! If you tell her that this person is toxic and is not an acceptable friend that should be it. No, you can't prevent her from having contact at school but you can certainly say she is not allowed in your home and your daughter does not have permission to go to her home, talk to her on the phone or IM her on the computer. PERIOD.
At what point will it be enough? When the friend gets her drunk? Gets her stoned? Double dates and your daughter gets pregnant? Sometimes as a mom you have to trust your gut and act on it. It may make it uncomfortable for both you and your daughter for a while but YOU are the adult. Get your daughter involved in something where she can make new friends, like at church or sports. The problem is if this young girl is the only "friend" she has she won't be willing to give her up because she is afraid of being alone. Get her involved with other kids and it will be easier for her to let go.
Dear, I sympathize, I have an 11 year old and am just coming into that....stand firm, do the right thing. *HUG*

You ask: "What can I say that won't make me sound immature and unforgiving? "
Maybe this is also what your daughter wonders when her "frenemy" wants to reunite. Maybe, like you, she doesn't have the confidence to know how to say no, and that is why she keeps allowing the friend back in her life?

You CAN forgive WITHOUT continued contact. Forgiveness doesn't mean friendship forever, it means that we don't hold anger or hate inside of us, toward that person, and that we don't try to hurt the person back or seek revenge.
That's all forgiveness means. Forgiveness can be given easily enough, trust is something else...

Try this: I forgive you for the mistakes you have made in the past, but you have already shown me that you don't learn from your mistakes. I wish you the best in the future, but I can't have you in my [life / home] anymore.

I don't think you need to worry about coming off as petty to this other girls mother. You should express what seems to me like a serious concern and lead parameters around that friendship. Like either this little friends attitude must change in order to be invited to your home. I remember as a younger age that my parents noted people as "school friends" and then we had "home friends" or kids around our neighborhood. Maybe this girl needs to stay a school friend only. Also, work with your daughter to show her what a friendship is supposed to be, not something where someone makes you cry. Your an invaluable source of strength for her so she'll be able to let go of "toxic" relationships if you show her she can find something else. Maybe an activity for her to make new friends if you can afford the time.