I have a really good friend who is in an awful marriage. Her husband is controlling, manipulative, and emotionally abusive, and struggles with depression. She doesn't feel like she should leave him because she feels like he would turn their two kids against her, so she has decided to stay in the marriage to protect them. He is not abusive to them. The two kids they currently have are lower elementary school age. In recent months they have been trying, unsuccessfully, to get pregnant again. They have already paid thousands of dollars to try to get pregnant, and every month she tells me she is not pregnant I feel relieved. I want to be a supportive friend but I worry because this child would come into a very toxic home. It would also add at least 6 years of being tied to her husband before her kids are out of the house, since she intends to stay until they move out. She is a wonderful mom but she can only do so much with how much her husband controls her. They are considering their options, and trying to decide if they are finished trying to get pregnant or if they want to take the next step. I have just been supportive because she thinks she really wants another baby. She recently told me that things have gotten worse in the past 6 months. Should I say something like "I really worry that if you were to get pregnant things would get even worse for you", or something along those lines? Or should I just keep quiet because it's none of my business what they decide to do in their marriage? I know it's kind of late in the ballgame but I wanted to ask you other moms if you would say anything?
I wouldn't waste my breath.
I know where you're coming from, but it's not going to change anything.
I think it really depends, quite honestly, on your own personality.
I'll be honest, I have a hard time being friends with people who create drama or are gluttons for punishment. I can be there for you when stuff happens, but when a person cultivates that on their own by staying in a bad situation, it's hard to hang out. I'd likely end up saying something along the lines of "I know things have been hard. What do you think life with a new baby will look like for you?" I'd ask her if she felt like her husband would be able to be supportive. Sorry, but I've been through a lot in my own life and am not one to shy away from gently asking hard questions. It was the people in my life who asked me the hard questions which helped me to grow. I believe real friends do that and that it is braver to do that with a spirit of love and friendship than just to let it be 'their problem'. How they choose to proceed in life... that's their business. Some people have been offended, but a few other friends have been able to see that it was because I *did* care about them that I was tenderly honest with them. People who just need blind support-- can't do that, it's okay if they aren't ready to see the light, but it's not in my nature to enable them. Just my take on it.
Difficult situation. As a good friend, I would be honest and tell her that you're worried because a third child can add huge stress to a relationship. I would probably ask her to think about why she wants another child and how she will handle not having the kind of emotional support she might need from her husband with the arrival of a third child. I would frame the concern in terms of giving her questions to think about, so that she can dig deeper, and reaffirm your support by saying you want her to be happy and healthy and do what's best for her, but want her to be sure about her motives. Best of luck to you and her!
I don't think anything you say will make a difference. She's married to an abuser and she has no intention of leaving because he has control over the kids' attitudes. She's having active, intentional sex with someone who demeans her, and she's decided to raise 2 or 3 kids in a home where they will learn how to treat others and be treated. So she's not in this for the kids - not really. That's her excuse because she is already so beaten down emotionally. She may feel that a baby is something she's good at - mothering and "protecting" - many abused women do this. She's petrified of being on her own, with or without kids. She needs to feel that she's a great mom - and you are supporting her by saying she is a wonderful mom - but the fact is, she is raising kids in an abusive household which will affect their psyches and their choices in mates and the treatment of them. She's not doing her kids any favors, but you may not be able to point this out to her.
I think the most you can say without alienating her (and God knows she needs a friend) is, "You've told me many times how demeaning he is. If you get pregnant and have another child to raise, and things are already deteriorating, how can I best help you if things continue to go south?" Focus on what YOU CAN do and not on what SHE SHOULD do. As her 2 children get older and more defiant/rebellious, she will see the results of having one domineering parent and one submissive one. So you could say, "How will you handle it if little Jeffrey says XYZ to you as he hears his father say? Do you have a plan to stop the cycle of this type of talk? How can I help you as the kids get older and if you have less time when you are occupied with a baby?" Doing this as gently as you can will help.
You can also call the National Domestic Violence hotline and ask for strategies as a friend. They may think you are calling about yourself, but that's okay.
There may come a point when you have to decide if you will say, "I cannot help you any longer in your pursuit of more degradation." I know you dread that. But it doesn't sound like you are there yet.
I'm sorry but I'd have trouble being close friends with someone who wants to bring another child into a horrible marriage. You could just ask lots of questions like "aren't you worried the stress of a baby will make things worse?" "-aren't you worried if things fall apart another child will makes things more difficult financially? What if you have to go back to work or work more hours?" "Aren't you worried with a big age difference the youngest will be left without siblings and you guys fighting a lot?" Asking questions on a nice, supportive way isn't telling her what to do but hopefully will make her think.
I'm sorry - you can't do anything for her. She has to make the decision herself and she has to decide that she deserves better. IF she opens the conversation - you talk. but you do NOT bring it up. YOU don't tell her what you think and feel unless SHE asks your opinion...
Having a baby will NOT change her husband, in fact, it might make him worse. As the stress of ANOTHER mouth to feed, diapers, late nights, and all the stuff that goes into the first year - let alone raising - a child...
Remember - this is their normal. They don't know it's wrong or bad. Her children are learning how to treat their spouses...so the next time you have a heart-to-heart with her? Ask her if **THIS** is how she wants her daughters to be treated...or if **THIS** is how she wants her future daughter in laws to be treated??? IF she says no. Tell her she has options. Give her a safe haven - not your house - but a battered W.'s shelter.
Continue being supportive. Continue listening. Be ready when she asks for help or guidance.
http://www.womenshelters.org/cit/ut-west_jordan
http://svsutah.org/
Good luck!!
I would for sure say something because I am the type of friend to express my opinions and concerns, honestly.
But I wouldn't expect anything to change. How sad she feels that "protecting" her children means teaching them that women should be abused and devalued. How can you really get through to a person like that? Someone who makes babies so she can feel love, without ever really thinking of all the harm she's actually doing to those babies? Stupid is as stupid does.
Be supportive. If she is a really good friend, than it seems like you should be able to say," i know how much you want another baby, but I'm concerned things will get worse for you. You are in a tough spot." Don't start a conversation, just say it when and when you have a natural opening.
It really isn't your business, and she will do whatever it is she wants, but I do think close friends do say concerns, but not always directly. For instance, my best friend married someone I knew she would divorce. I used the reason I knew they would divorce (kids) as a way to try to gently talk her out of it. She went through with it, and now, two years later, they are getting divorced. Yes, things will be worse for you friend, but she will do what she deeply feels she needs, even if it isn't the best choice. we all do this all the time. All we can do as witnesses is be there for hugs and support.
My marriage wasn't good in the beginning at all, my dad told me he wanted me to leave, but he supported whatever decision I made because he loved me above any decisions I made that he didn't agree with. Ten years later my husband is pretty amazing, my parents and family love him, and everyone tells me they are glad we worked through our issues.
I have loved ones in relationships that are toxic, and it's extra hard when the person I love is being controlled and kids are involved. What do I do? Well, after voicing my opinion years ago, I simply tell the person I love them and support them. When they need me, I am there for them.
I will never understand why people stay in situations like that. Kids don't need to see that kind of treatment and have that idea of adulthood. Kids need to grow up seeing how marriage is supposed to work, and a strong woman and man as their mother and father. Unfortunately your friend's kids have neither.
I would say something but expect to lose the friendship you have.
My sister just had a baby with her husband.After having a child for eight years, getting their electricity shut off, a couple of times since he didn't pay the bills, had a terrible temper...picked on her in front of people, oh on and on and then voila she got pregnant a bit back, had a miscarriage and then went on to get pregnant again! The baby was recently born.She is beautiful.But what I had to do is realize that all the years I listened to her horror stories is that she really has no intention of leaving him.In fact sadly I think she likes the excitement, so long ago I stopped saying anything but 'oh really, uh huh uh huh' because she didn't want good advice or support to get out of what appears to be an awful marriage, she wanted to whine or vent or something. lIke I said,baby is beautiful but who knows what will happen around the corner? Same with your friend, maybe she will have just had it and leave anyway. But what a shame. Even saying that is probably what she knows in her heart and she isn't really too concerned what anyone else thinks really.
It sounds like she's a glutton for punishment.
I wouldn't care so much it if were just her but she's dragging the kids through this and if anything she should leave BECAUSE of the kids - so they don't grow up to be abusive too - they WILL imitate their father.
She won't listen to you - so don't bother.
Sometimes friends vent about the bad things going on around them because they need to get that out of their system. Sometimes those things are exaggerated.
If you're seeing the things between them that you're mentioning above then you surely have enough to know how bad it really is. But if it's just her word them perhaps she needs someone to listen and offer positive ideas about how to make things better?
I'd not say anything negative about having a baby.
Sure, say something, but it won't matter. Children and husbands are totally different things, and when she finally frees herself of that loser one day, perhaps that third child will be her most helpful and loving. They've already got two kids. The third one won't "start" the problems.
I had 2 "oops" babies while things were rocky with my ex. I didn't know he was cheating at the time, but things weren't great. However, we were married, and I got pregnant (as married people do) with our 2nd and 3rd children. Then I caught him cheating, all hell broke loose, we got divorced, I have full custody...blah blah.
I had the well-meaning friends who knew he was a dick saying things like, "You know you can abort, you don't have to have this baby with relationship issues..." As if the messed up personality of my ex had any relevance to my future with my beloved children that I (and he) wanted to have. We're both nuts about the kids and carry on co-parenting civilly.
Do I wish I had less kids? No way! Am I glad to be rid of him? Yup.
So really, how you feel about what they are doing has no bearing. I'd skip sharing it because she'll just feel weird around you. Or tell her, but she won't see it your way.
