Help!!!! - Atlantic Beach, FL

I have 3 kids , a 3 yr old a 5 yr ols and 4 month old I would be more than willing to talk to you over the phone if you need help-
how is he disciplined at home? is he used to being around a younger child, or having all the attention to himself ?
Have you tried talking to him and explaining what he is doing wrong, like instead of you cant play with the sink, tell him look the sink is broken, ask him if he has any ideas on how to fix it. I do things like that with my kids, lol and the older 2 have flooded my house. I got them involved in trying to fix it, I woiuld tell brannon can you please get this for mommy, etc.
I have had 3 doz eggs broken on my floor , lol just thinking of all the things they have done makes me smile now, but not at the time, let me know if you want to talk

Anne ###-###-####

I've heard of this type of behavior while doing research on bipolar syndrome. I came across one called oppositional defiant disorder. The characteristics you describe are almost textbook for this. Here are a couple of sites with more information on this.

http://aacap.org/page.ww?name=Children+with+Oppositional+...
http://www.explosivekids.org/explosive_kids.html

Hope you are able to find some help in one of these. :-)

Catch him doing something good and praise him for it immediately. Positive reinforcement. Say something like "Wow, I love how you......you are such a good boy. or Did you see ( his name) putting the toys away? How nice of him. etc... I know positive reinforcement worked when i was teaching school. That's just a small tip, but it has worked for me. My other thought is: How are his parents dealing with him?

I UNDERSTAND YOU DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP ON HIM, BUT BEHAVIOR COMES FROM ENVIRONMENT. HE WOULDN'T ACT THIS WAY IF HIS PARENTS PUT THEIR FOOT DOWN AND SHOWED HIM WHO WAS IN CHARGE. HE DEFINATELY WANTS ATTENTION. I HAD A BOY AT THE DAYCARE ACTED UP VERY BADLY. I GAVE HIM EXTRA ATTENTION AND SHOWED THAT I CARED AND EXPLAINED (AS YOU HAVE BEEN DOING) WHAT HE WAS DOING WRONG AND WHAT HE SHOULD DO INSTEAD. I COULD SEE A HUGE CHANGE. I ALSO USED TIME OUT BECAUSE I OBVIOUSLY COULDN'T SPANK.

You need to call Nanny 911!!!

Wow, you have your hands full. I wish I had the magical words to help you but I don't. This must stem from his home, and things need to change there, what ever that is. It really sounds like you need someone professional to give you some advice on how to react to him and how to best handle the situations so his behavior pattern changes. I think it is so amazing that a you don't just want to "give up on him". Have a lot of patience. Hopefully it is something he will outgrow! Good Luck! L.

K., I commend you for trying to be there to help this little boy. After being kicked out of three daycares already it seems to me that his problems are beyond something that a "better discipline regime" would solve however. Particularly since you are NOT his primary caregiver (i.e. full time parent) and decision maker as to how discipline is to be carried out, etc. My son is a couple weeks away from being 4. He was nearly kicked out of daycare just over a year ago because of similar problems that I did not believe were related to the way I disciplined him or how the school treated him. I am a social worker as well and knew there had to be other problems. The school was patient and wonderful and helped me to seek out the assistance of the Florida Center who helped us with diagnosis and early intervention. It turned out he had some serious problems that we were able to address early. That may or may not be the case with this child, but at this point it seems to me that it's not possible you're simply the 4th caregiver to fail him. And no child is just "bad," so there are obviously other issues. As for your daughter picking up the habits, I will say this. My youngest son is nearly 2 and worships his big brother as most siblings do. He wants to be just like him... good and bad. Kids mimic what they see. Hopefully she's not around him enough to see and remember enough of the behavior right now at 10 months, but if you continue to babysit him as she gets older... well, the writing's on the wall there. And what's to say she won't become a target of his anger as well? That's not an attempt to scare you. You obviously care a lot about this little boy, and I know it breaks your heart to see him do the things he does. But your defenseless daughter may get in the way... in the wrong place at the wrong time so to speak... if his behavior is really that bad. I'd talk to the mom about the Florida Center or a similar local service (that's in Sarasota County) and see how open she is to the idea of at least talking to someone about his continuing agressions. Good luck and best wishes.

HI K.:
I think you should tell your friend to seek professional opinion. Some kids are just very active and dont behave welll, but sometimes there is more going on..

Super Nanny, Jo Frost, has a great book out with ways to handle these types of behavior. I have three kids and I purchased them each a color coded plastic jar with a wide opening. Then I purchased chips ( I used poker chips because they are large and the kids could not choke on them ) You make a rules chart such as Keep Our Hands To Ourselves, Treat Others With Respect, No Yelling, etc. Each time he exhibits good behavior, you give him a chip for his jar. Let him put the chip in himself. Each time he breaks a rule, you give him a warning and if he doesn't comply he loses a chip. At the end of the week you allow him to earn a reward for good behavior. Set your own point system for the reward. 10 chips equals an hour to play whatever he wants, etc. A trip to the park, etc. 20 chips equals a trip to Dairy Queen, etc. It is important you review the rules with him in a upbeat way frequently, atleast daily. Eventually he will recite them with you. Keep it simple, maybe five. Also you have to make sure you follow through on the chips and the rewards. Good Luck. Read the book, it will help.

I personally Am definately not a belever in corporal punishment, my three are very well behaved and have not ever been spanked.

I agree that you can't really do anything without talking it over with the mother, and that the behavior expectations, rewards, and punishments should be consistent both at your house and at his house.

I used to nanny for a family and there were times the kids drove me crazy. I held nothing back with the mom and told her everything. I also offered my suggestions and my insight, and we thought of solutions together. Everything I imposed while I was in charge, she backed up. The kids (who were older) would call her to try to go behind my back and play us against each other and she always backed my decisions. THIS IS KEY in a childcare situation.

I had a similar behavior check system to the color coded jars. I used a cribbage board and the kids got to move their pegs (points) forward for good and backward for bad. If they reached the end of the board by the end of the week I surprised them on Friday afternoons with something.

Now I have my own 4 year old and 2 1/2 year old and I have created a behavior chart for each of them. I used pictures to show the behavior I'm looking for: a cat sleeping in bed shows that they are expected to go to bed and go to sleep without stalling, a clip art man in a tux bowing shows them that I expect good manners (everything from yes please and no thank you to obedience...not spitting, not getting up from the table without being excused, etc.), a neatly arranged toy shelf shows I want them to put away their toys, and a picture of a full dinner plate tells them I want them to finish their meals. When they accomplish good behavior, they get a sticker on the chart. We look at each day and determine by the stickers if it was a "good day" or a "Bad day". 5 good days a week gets them a trip to the ice cream parlor for a cone.

My sister in law is a kindegarten teacher and she swears by charts! She says they need to "see" that they A) can be good and B) are being good.

One more idea: try Feingold's diet. I've seen it work for kids JUST LIKE THIS ONE! It's amazing.

I read a lot of the responses and I think you've got some good things to work with here. One more piece of advice: print out the ones you can see yourself doing, and that you predict might work on the boy. Print them out and schedule a coffee break with your friend. Then discuss your options and come up with a plan that you will BOTH execute.

I know this is not what you want to hear; but you really should get out of the situation for your daughter's sake if nothing else. She will most surely pick up this behavior and risks serious injury from this out of control child. What do his parents say about his behavior? Have they done anything to find out what is causing it or taken steps to control it? The parent(s) are ultimately responsible for their child's behavior. What would you do if your little girl had the same issues? Expect the babysitter to figure it out? I don't mean to sound harsh; but your little girl should not be subjected to a potentially harmful situation. Keep your angel just that and let the boy's parents take care of the serious behavior problem.

As a mother of a an occasional biter, I will tell you what I do.....time outs..and CALMLY telling him that biting hurts and he needs to use his words..tell him what words to use!! Like if you take him away from something he wants to do, you tell him that biting/hitting/etc hurts and that he needs to say, Stop, or why? My son is only two, so we use simple words, but this child is 3, so he should have a pretty good vocabulary. You just have to encourage the "use your words" thing and TALK TO THE PARENTS! Find out what they are doing to help this. Biting is actually NORMAL for kids...they do this for the same reason they hit, push, pull hair and the like. Its just the most sociable unacceptable form of expression, and once they can talk, this behavior should stop. I would ask if he has been assessed by his Ped, and what they had to say. This could also be a reaction to being separated from his parents for so long. If he has already been kicked out so many times, this could also be contributing to the behavior. Sounds like he doesnt know how to voice whats going on in his head.

Read books like "teeth are not for biting" and "hands are not for hitting" They do help some kids. Help him talk about his anger. Say things like "I know you want to play with the water, but we cant right now because the sink is broken" Tell him its ok to be angry, but its not ok to hit you. But you have to stay calm...YES! I know this is HARD to do, and we all lose it sometimes. The only thing you really can do until he voices what he is feeling is to put him in time outs. If he wont stay, just keep putting him in there. He will get the message. And make sure he tells you he is sorry. If my 2 year old can do it, so can this 3 year old.

I really do advise you to talk to his parents about it. Im sure they are well aware of what is going on, and if you all do the same things, then this should go away. He sounds more angry than frustrated to me. Maybe there is something else you need to know??? And maybe its as simple as he misses his parents!

And there is no guarantee if your daughter will pick this behavior or not..every kid is different, some will, most wont if they see you correcting it and telling the child a better way of dealing with things. You may also want to talk to your own Ped. to see what advice they have on this little boy...They may have some ideas that I dont know about! If so, email me! lol (my son is getting alot better now that he is starting to talk)

He sounds like my son...very smart and active. My son goes to manatee glens play therapy...helping a lot! It's a boundaries issue. His parents (just like me) need to set boundaries with him and demand that he stay in them. (timeout, etc...)
ex... He picks up a toy and is going to throw it. You should say immediately... If you throw that toy you will have a timeout. He throws (of course)..you sit him down (he thrashes and refuses) and make him sit there until he has sat quietely and in the same spot (on a stool or whatever) for 1 minute. This took me 40 minutes the other day to get him to do this for one minute...it's a control thing. It does work wonders though.

ok...just a few ideas..could he be adhd?
if not...well reenforce punishment and time out.
is there a male presence in the household?
dont worry...he is a little boy going through sharing his mummy and yes you should take it seriously but find really thecause of it more than " giving up"

Girl it sounds like you got your hands full!! I worked with kids for a long time that had learning disability and behavior problems. It sounds like his mother needs to take him to a specialist and make sure that something isn't wrong with him mentally(sounds bad I know) Just be firm with him, I know it's hard but if you don't let him get away with anything. He will learn to respect you over time and he will know you are serious. Find a spot in the house and explain to him this is where you will go when you don't listen. And EVERYTIME he does something pick him up and put in the timeout spot. He will get up of course and try to throw a fit but sooner or later he will understand. Don't give up and feel free to write me anytime. D.

Dear K.,
I'm a 41-year old mother of 2 children and expecting me 3rd. My son is almost 7 and in 1st grade. My daughter is 4 and just started VPK. My husband is a Lt. Colonel in the USAF and is the oldest of 5 children. I'm the youngest of 3. I started babysitting at 15 years old and started teaching piano lessons to kids when I was 16. So, I've been around children for over 20 years and have been resposible for their welfare for long periods of time.

My son was NOT an easy child and STILL has his moments. I thought that between the ages of 2 and 5 I was going to end up running away from home :-) I took him to psychiatrists, psychologists, the pediatrician, talk to my Mother-in-law (who, in my opinion, is an expert on raising children since she raised 5 good ones - 2 boys and 3 girls who were all born back-to-back w/ a set of twins last). Let me tell you that this situation is not easy for a babysitter. You MUST get the parents permission to punish this boy with Time-Outs and then Spanking for really bad offences such as you have discussed in your posted dilemma. Hitting, purposeful destruction of property, blatant disrespect - these are all corporal punishment behaviors. Save the Time-outs for lesser offenses such as not-sharing, temper tantrums, etc. Also, find a place for time-out where this child has NOTHING to do but sit and think (no TV, no toys, no friend to talk to). If he does not stay in time-out, this is a corporal offense.

I know that some parents do not believe in spanking and maybe you don't either. I can tell you from my experience that unless this child has some level of fear of you as a grown-up and an authority figure, this will never stop. This boy ended up this was because his parents let him rule the roost. He apparently never gets punished for his behariors at home.

The next step is, after a couple of weeks if his behavior does not improve with good, old-fashioned punishment for bad behavior, then you need to speak with his parents again about taking him to the pediatrician to be evaluated for ADHD and possibly autism. Children who have these disorders and frequently violent and do not respond quickly or not at all to regular punishment techniques. This boy may need therapy and maybe medication to help him control his behaviors. The determining factor here for the bad behavior part is - "Can the child control these behaviors by himself or does he need medication to help him?"

If the parents are not receptive to the punishment that you need to use, drop the babysitting job. It's not worth the damage that it WILL do to your daughter (not to mention you). Your daughter will absolutely pick up some of these behaviors. I know this because my daughter mimics my son. I have been told that this is normal for children to mimic each other. Example: Over the summer, I put my son in a Summer Camp. By the end of the first week, he had not only gained 6 pounds but his attitude at home was horrendous (sp?). He was back-talking me, never doing what I asked anymore and beginning to pick on his little sister again. Needless to say, I had a talk with the Summer Camp Counselor about this. She informed me that Trey was hanging with another boy who, was not only obese (so they were eating together and Trey was trying to keep up, I guess) but this other boy was a holy terror to deal with. So, it didn't take long for my son to try to act like this boy. The following week, my son went to Tae Kwon Do Camp. No more Summer Camp at the other place for him. It took me about 3 weeks to break the behavior pattern that only took him days to learn. Another example: My daughter starting biting her nails once she observed my son doing it. The problem is, I broke my son of it, now I'm having trouble breaking my daughter from biting her nails. She also heard about him toileting in the tub during bathtime on several occasions because she overheard him getting punished for it. Guess what? For the first time ever, my daughter toileted in the tub just after this. I guess she was thinking "He got attention for it, why don't I try it?" So, negative behaviors are VERY EASY to transfer from one child to another. It's the positive ones that are harder for them to pick up. It takes longer.

Anyway, hope that this helps at least a little. I don't know how you can watch this brat (because that is exactly what he is if you don't mind me saying so). With all of the negative behaviors that I have experienced with my own children, they have NEVER inflicted these on a baby sitter. The sitters that I have had over the years have always given them rave reviews (much to my amazement!). I always wondered why they didn't act that way with me.

M. G

Unfortunately, I don't think there's much you can do as his initial descipline should come from his parents. Talk to your friend about it? Has she said it's ok for you to discipline him? If so, are the methods discussed working, if not what other options is she willing to try? She needs to stop this in the home, because most daycares as she may already see are not accepting of this behavior, and she will struggle finding one who will care for him. Keep your word, if you tell him he's going to go in time out, make sure he goes in time out. Your daughter might pick up on his behavior, only if he gets away with things, I think. All kids are different, so you never know. But if he gets away with something and she can't, that's when I think the problems could happen.

Maybe he's acting out because he's not getting enough attention. Have you tried time outs? Taking away toys? Has he gone to the doctor, as much as I hate to say it and actually bring it up, maybe there are other issues.

What does he like? Get connected with things he's into. Try to keep him busy with arts and crafts... get him to help you around the house, cooking or cleaning, etc. Praise him when he does behave and does soemthing good. Give him rewards... not all the time but maybe once a week, for example on friday...depending on how good he behaves throughout the week is the size of the prize...a toy, dinner at mcd's, going to the ice cream parlor, to the park, etc.

I hope you find some peace and something that works for you guys. Good Luck.

There is a wonderful book called "Setting Limits With Your Strong Willed Child" by Robert J. MacKenzie. I think there are some wonderful ideas in there that could be useful when dealing with this little boy. It should be an easy read for you (I read it in just one evening) and you can start using some of the techniques the next day. I purchased the book from Amazon, but am sure you can find it in any major book store. good luck.

K.,

Broward County School system has a free program called Child Find, Children's Diagnostic & Treatment Center. Your friend, the mother, needs to make an appointment now to have her child evaluated by them. It takes a few weeks for the appt. but she really needs to make it ASAP. At the appointment they also will give the Mom recommendations and will give further counseling if needed. Have her call today, Dr. Ellen Breslow at ###-###-####, it's in Cooper City. I am really surprised none of the Day Care's recommended it. You are a wonderful friend and a caring person. Good luck!

T.

Small advice, first - keep a spiral notebook (like a journal) between you and the mom of how things go daytime and night time - not sure when you watch him. So she can see how things go and so can you, like what time he goes to bed weather or not he ate a balance meal or if he followed rules at home like picking up his toys (all examples) A good flow of the same rules between what happens at home and when he's with you would be helpful..he should know that you and parents are communicating. Second I'm a big believer in routines for small children, I don't know if he is napping - because sometimes that's stil a need at that age especially if he plays hard in the morning...lastly use the process of elimination to along with the journal to figure out what he needs,lacks or is getting to much of like sugar in his diet.
Good luck
A.

I am afraid that if you let this behavior go unpunished your daughter will realize that it is accepted behavior and she will do it. As for the boy you babysit. Have you talked with his parents and ask what they do when he behavies like this. Maybe they have some good Ideas. If they don't have a ideas you feel comfortable with use time out. It sounds like putting him on time out in a corner won't work. So you can create a room to put him in time out. Nothing for him to do blocked with a baby gate or two if he climbs. Let him know the behavior is unacceptable and place him in the room for 3-4 minutes. If he misbehaves in the room. Tell him he can come out when he behaves properly. Hopefully he will soon notice that he will get no attention and be stuck by himself when he misbehavies. The situation needs to be taken care of sooner than later for all of your.

Lots of luck

K.

Dear K.,

My mantra with my daughter has been as follows "when you are good you get what you want, when you are bad you get nothing".

Three is a very tough age. Make sure NO sugar, no cartoons, these are too stimulative for little people and there are studies that back this up. Do lots of physical activities, go to the park.

Set up a reward system. Find out what he really likes and then reward him with it when he has been good. Be firm but do not react to his behavior. (which is a true test!!!) Time outs work.

One time when my daughter was having a hissy fit and rolling around on the floor screaming I immitated her and did exactly what she did. She was so shocked that she stopped and walked away! That was wonderful.

Teach him to use his words, i.e., if he is having a fit, ask him to tell you what he is upset about. Use his words to tell you.

Remember this takes lots of time and repetition.

Good luck to you. Do not be upset if there is a set back, as long as there are small improvements.

Keep a food diary and see if any foods are a trigger. This is important because he might have allergies that cause him to go into rages. My daughter was allergic to strawberries and peanuts and eventually outgrew these.

Again, good luck.

Your daughter will absolutely pick up this behavior. Don't kid yourself for a second that she is seeing what is going on and figuring out how to use it to her own advantage.

If you don't want to quit I suggest that you find someone to watch your daughter for a few weeks and work with him independently for a while. My daughter was acting out for a while and with her, we started giving her some space and giving her choices. Additionally, positive reinforcement for good or normal behavior may be needed for a while. With the little information I have it is difficult give you information that will help, but I would caution using timeout too often. When kids bite, it is there last resort. They feel helpless and controlled. You have to assume a zen-like approach -- never getting too upset or emotional. A little flat affect during a tantrum and not reinforcing bad behavior with attention could go a long way.

Good luck to you!

J.

i wanna know what does this mom do or have to say about this.

Hi K.,
I really don't think that your daughter will pick up on his ways of acting. Does he react to time out? I think you are an angel yourself! I had a similar situation w/ a liitle boy that was 3 that would kick and hit when I put him on a time out, so I would put him in a chair and tell his sister and my children not to go into that room for 3 minutes, it worked for me b/c then he would apologize to everyone and we would have a great day. If he didn't listen, he would be back on time out, it did take a couple of times, but it did eventually work. How does your friend react to him acting this way? I hope that I helped a little bit! M.