How to Discipline Four Year Old son...are We Doing Something Wrong?

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my 4 yr old started this around 3 and is finally getting out of it and he'll be 5 in 2 months. We have some firm dinner rules that he follows fairly well now although it took a while. We all sit at the table for dinner whether we're hungry or not. (It's important, imo, for kids to know that rules apply to grownups too.) You must stay in your chair until you are done eating. If you're not hungry fine, but you must take 4 bites (1 for every year he is old). At first we didn't care what the bites were of. Now we require at least 1 bite of everything on his plate. He also must ask to be excused from the table before getting up and he has to clear his own plate when he gets permission to get up. At first I found myself having to feed him the required bites and he would just say "I'm done" and get up, and he did not clear his plate unless I told him to. As his behavior got better we slowly required more and refined his table manners. Punishment for misbehaving at dinner is a timeout, in which time we keep eating so he finds himself eating alone at the table usually if he has a timeout during dinner. He hates sitting there by himself so its very motivating for him to behave.

Other discipline in our house is usually a timeout and/or taking away a toy. Even if an outing is planned (ei., zoo or night at grandma's, etc.) I don't usually threaten with those. I know those are things I want to so I won't back up the threat, I'd only be bluffing. Never threaten anything that you aren't willing or able to follow through with. That's why we stick to toy removal or no videos/tv etc. When I take away a toy I make sure its one he's been playing with recently, usually the first toy I see laying out. I put it up on a shelf he can see but not get to until the next day. If he has behaved and not gotten into more trouble since I took it away he gets it back. If he's continued to misbehave usually there are several toys up there and he has to wait until later in the day or sometimes even the next day. I've had toys sit on the shelf for 3 days before but he doesn't forget about them. And 3 days I think has been our max before he's corrected himself and started acting like the good boy I know he can be.

B., you explained the root of your problem in your inquiry:
"...we had to threaten again and he eventually started acting a little bit better BUT WE KNOW WE WERENT' GOING TO TAKE IT AWAY... "
Believe me, so did your son! You know that old saw, "This is going to hurt me more than it does you"? Well it's true. We love our kids so much, it's difficult to withold anything from them. We want to be able to shower them with everything they want. But you know you can't give them every bit of candy they want and you can't let them stay up all night just because they want to, and you wouldn't dream of letting him run loose in a toy store by himself. Those things are easy to accept and understand. It's the day-to-day things that tend to get in our way. So we have to fall back on another catch phrase ... Tough Love.

Sometimes we have to go against our natural instincts because we know it is best for our children. Even though he is barely more than a toddler at four your son is old enough to understand a certain level of reasoning. It's time to set him down and, with both you and your husband presenting a united front, talk to him - on a level he can readily understand (without talking down to him) - about his behavior. Sit on the couch together or at the table together or on his bed together. The key here is to be together and not you and your husband against your son. Talk to him quietly about his conduct at home as opposed to at day care. Explain to him that Mommy and Daddy have been very easy with his behavior at home in the past but you are going to change now. Talk to him about his behavior and your expectations. Tell him that you will no longer accept his temper tantrums or acting up either at the table or elsewhere.

You and your husband need to establish a specific method of correction when your son misbehaves such as a time out mat in the kitchen, dining room, living room, anyplace where you spend a majority of time during the day. Get a mat or small carpet remnant to set in the time out place. This should stay there at all times so that he becomes familiar with it and understands the consequences of his actions. If you decide on withdrawal of privileges as your preferred method of correction, be firm. Do not say one thing and then mentally back down from your intentions. He will know before you do if you do not intend to go through with empty threats. So what if the cousin missed an outing because your son misbehaved? He will learn to accept the disappointment and you can reschedule the outing for another time.

Your son has become accustomed to being in charge of your household so expect him to resist - strenuously. He may even try to get up during your talk with him but you will need to pick him up and put him back where he was sitting. Tell him that, although he is part of the whole family and Mommy and Daddy love him very much and want to know his thoughts and opinions on things, Mommy and Daddy are in charge and, from now on, he must obey and be respectful.

There are certain things your son must learn in order to be a successful adult. There are the obvious things he will learn in school later on ... Reading, grammar, writing and math skills, science skills, history, geography. Then there are the things he must learn from you and you alone. A standard of morality and ethics, courtesy, respect - both for himself and for others. These personal skills are equally important, if not more so, for his future. If he does not learn them now, it will be more difficult, if not impossible, to instill them later. You MUST help him learn how to respect you and your husband, his environment (his room, his toys, his home, his dinner!), his friends, as well as himself. What you do now can have an effect on everything in his future including his success in jobs and relationships. Will he ever get married? Will he have one, good, solid marital relationship or will he be married and divorced repeatedly? Will he go to college and go on to a thriving career or will he hop from one middle to low income job to another? Will he be able to budget his income, keep his bills paid, stay out of debt? Or will he be constantly running at a deficit and coming to you for "loans"? All of these things are wrapped up in the ethics you establish for him now.

WOW! Had no idea making him eat his dinner had so many ramifications, did you? And for goodness' sake STOP FEEDING THAT CHILD! He is old enough to feed himself. You know that. You are just taking the easy way out and he is more than happy to let you. You are being manipulated by a pint-sized magician who knows he is in charge. It's about time to change the status, don't you think?

And regarding the easy way out. The 3 of you, you, your husband, and your son, have already established the machinery for your dysfunctional relationship. It will not be easy to change. He will resist you at every turn and so you will have to determine ahead of time just how much anguish you are willing to put up with. The guarantee here is that, within a matter of weeks, or days even, if you stick to your guns - on everything - he will begin to see his past conduct is not going to work anymore and he will start to accede to your wishes. Within a few months, you will notice you are using your correction method (time out mat or whatever you decide) less and less. Before long, your son will be five and six years old and acting like a respectful, kind, decent young man. Correcting him will be easy because both you and he will understand the dynamic of the relationship and that, if he does not do the right thing, he will have consequences to pay.

Remember, kids need structure in their lives. They need to know they can rely on you for that strength. (Can you imagine getting a new job, going in to the workplace, and having no idea what you are supposed to do - what time you are supposed to arrive or leave - how much you were getting paid? Of course not! But that's pretty much what happens when you don't set down parameters for your children.)

Nobody said it would be easy but, with lots of love and patience, it's certainly worth it. Good luck - and let us know how he's adapting to his new family life.

Wow girl, you need to get strict on that boy! ;) Seriously, he is going to continue to test the limits until you show him how far. I was a teacher of K-5 kids and the same system ALWAYS worked. Basically, you just need a plan in place. If he ever does 1.) hurt others (mentally, physically, etc.) or 2.) disrupts others (being respectful), then boom consequence. HE GETS ONLY ONE REMINDER. It is not hard to remember b/c you only do it once. Then whatever your plan is go at it.

I would recommend safe spot to sit in, or a time out chair, etc. Basically he does need to be removed from the situation. Again, he will get one reminder... only one "You need to eat your dinner, now." Then if he doesn't do it, he hasn't followed your direction. Have a plan in place for what happens for worst case scenario. I can go on and on about this, so reply if you want more info.

Good news is, he can be 'fixed' in a weeks time if you follow it to a T!!! Seriously!

Good luck to you!
Amanda

A parenting book I read not too long ago described children as little scientists constantly performing experiments on the world around them. Just as a scientist will repeatedly perform an experiment to check for consistent results and to gather data, our children will repeatedly "experiment" with us to see if we are consistent and to gather information about how we handle things. If you look at the things you are dealing with in this light, what data is your son collecting about you? What do you tell him by your actions at dinner time or when he is misbehaving? Do you tell him that you will follow through with consequences every time, or do you tell him that if he stalls long enough, or throws a big enough fit, or wears you down enough that you will eventually give in and reward his bad behavior?

At four years old, even if your son seems more mature, he still learns most of these things not through what you tell him but through the things you do. If you state your expectations clearly, "You have thirty minutes to eat. When the timer goes off, dinner is over. You will not be allowed to continue sitting at the table even if you have not finished, and you will not get dessert or watch programs," you are giving him the only explanation he needs. When you give him his food, you set the timer, and you allow him to make a choice about eating. You don't nag, plead, or argue. You just let him test your rules. When that timer beeps, you get up, take the dishes off the table, and let him know what your next expectation is. He will probably be upset with you for taking his plate, especially if he still had food on it. At this point, you calmly let him know that when the timer beeps, dinner time is over, and that he needs to eat during that time if he wants to eat. End of discussion.

With each point of behavior, you must first give him clear boundaries, then clear consequences for crossing those boundaries, and then clear follow through with those consequences when boundaries are crossed. When you do this consistently, you teach your son that when you say something, you mean it. When you show him that you mean what you say, he will have greater respect for you. You will have less arguments and testing from him when he sees that you will follow through with what you say you're going to do. This is of course a little simplistic, but our kids do learn what they can get away with, and they will push as hard as they can to get what they want until you show them a limit. The key is to set that limit early and set it firmly or later you are going to find it very difficult to assert yourself in a way that he will take seriously.

Im going through the same with my almost to be 3 yr .old .I put a request ad on here to asking the same thing about dinner time and received so many responses. It seems your doing what Im doing and just giving a certain amount of time to eat and if he doesnt eat when dinner time is scheduled for the family to eat then when time is up he doesnt come back and you just eat throw it away. He will probably beg and cry that he is hungry but I guarantee next time he will realize when dinner is and he will eat. You will feel so bad like your sending him to bed hungry and he will cry and say he is but remind him he had the chance to eat when mommy and daddy were eating and he chose not to. We are in control and he needs to learn to respect that and listen when rules are in place. Not that its going to be easy. It sure hasnt with mine. I felt at times so bad when he would cry and say hes hungry but eventually he will learn .well if he doesnt eat when mommy and daddy eat I wont be eating at all. Good Luck ! They have to learn there is time to eat and there is a time to play.

Hi B.,

Children are very smart and know when you will follow through on threats, and you said yourself you threatened him with taking things away. So first lesson never say anything you can't follow through on.
The eating thing, when you all sit down to a meal modeling best behavior is always important, little ones have big eyes and ears. then explain to him we have a certain amount of time for the meal and he needs to be finished in that time. and also if he is getting up and running around then comming back to table he is telling you he is finished so his plate should be gone.
Consistency is the key, he has to know what to expect anytime.

I am a therapeutic foster parent. I have two boys age 9 and 10 in my care. Consistency in discipline is a requirement in the learning of behaviors with children. They will continually test you to see if you are going to follow through. It can be exhausting at times but rewarding as the end result. Children need to know that your "YES" means yes and your "NO" means no. One thing that I have seen work for small kids is the "strikeout" method. Each time there is a bad behavior they get a "strike". When you reach a strike three there is a consequence. This gives them room to think out their actions and know they can prevent a consequence. This doesn't always work but worth a try too. Just giving you some other options. Also, set standards for the dinner table. If they choose not to eat in the time set, then it is their choice. But let them know that they eat at the next meal offered but not before.
After a couple of times of this (with consistency) they understand a couple of things: 1)they have the right to make choices - and 2)they learn the results of their choices are good or bad. This enables them to understand the differences of their decisions even at this young age. The older they get without these skills the more difficult it is to teach them.

The advice the others have given you on this site tells me that there are some great people out there that would make great foster parents.

So your not hungry? O.k., dinner is done. Time for bed.