My just recently 4 year old daughter had a poop accident at day-care yesterday. She did not tell the teacher for about 1.5 hours after it happened. I feel like that waiting is odd behavior and I am concerned about a potential negative-attention seeking pattern.
I am hoping for advice on that actual toilet training stuff. But, also with regard to altering the pattern of her seeking negative attention and how we might better respond.
For background, she attends a high-quality day care 6-7 hours a day 4 days a week. The teachers there respond firmly but with support. My daughter is a proud kid who wants to do well and help. She also very much wants to be a big kid and we try to use that to motivate her - with mixed results. She is also in a phase of not listening well.
She wears a pull-up at night. She has never been fully potty trained and still has urine leaks (typically not full accidents but slightly damp underpants). She seemed trained to poop in the potty for awhile, but then she started to have these poop accidents at home on occassion. She knows she is doing it and will say she did "not have enough time."
She had pooped once before at school, about 6 months ago. With the urination, she generally seems to do bettter with a very specific routine of daycare (maybe an accident once every week or two). At home, we do not construct such a set routine and she will have an accident fairly on an almost daily basis.
In response to accidents at home, we try to be matter of fact about accidents, she helps clean up and then we move on. But, she does feel badly or ashamed when it happens. I assume this this is her way of getting the attention, but am struggling with how to help her deal with it.
Any advice?
Hello JM:
It is my perception that this may be a response to stress, not seeking attention. Possibly stress of inflexibility, rigidity in the home, school. Is she allowed to be a 4 year old who "makes mistakes"? Consider.
All the best,
N.
Holistic Healthcare Practitioner
www.WholeCreations.com
As a preschool owner I am more disturbed that she was left in soiled underwear for 1.5 hours. Do they not have any sense of smell!!! I am sure it is not for attention she was probably very embarrassed. I have kindergarten children that it occasionally happens to. If it is happening often I would just ask the daycare if they could try to remind her. In a daycare setting when children are busy playing and in some cases do not want to give up the toys they are playing with they wait to long. This is why I have my teachers take all of the kids on potty runs every hour. This way they go as a group. It is very easy and common for children to still have occasional accidents especially when they are preoccupied, or distracted. I would do as you are doing just keep it matter of fact and ask the daycare to work closer with her and be more aware. The best way to stop her if you think she is doing it for attention is not to give it any. Don't say a word, help her clean her mess up and move on. Good luck
Dear JM, Maybe your daughter did not tell because she was embarrased and/or was not sure what the reaction would be. Grandma Mary
I don't know how you tell you this because I really don't want to offend you, but straight forward, your description sounds overthought in my eyes.
She is just four and she had two poopy accidents at daycare in six months? Other than that, she has a urine accident every second week there.
At home, she has no set schedule and has accidents.
I would get a timer, get some advice from the daycare how long she can hold it and have it set at home to this time. That way, you both know its time to go when it goes off and you can set it right away for the next period. In addition, I would set up a chart in the toilet where she gets a star for every time she goes and once she has a week full of stars (maybe allow one accident in the first week), then give her a big reward that she really wants.
I would try this for at least four weeks. Once she has success with no accidents during the day, you can start talking about nighttime. Try to find out when she goes at night, my son always had a warm diaper in the morning which meant he had just gone in it before he got up. That showed me he could hold it thru the night.
The part about only having urine leaks and not full accidents I cannot give any advice on, that never happened with my boy. I would ask the pediatrician about it, it could be maybe an UTI?
Hi JM,
I don't think your daughter is seeking attention, she just needs to be fully potty trained. Most children at 4yrs old are fully potty trained with the occassional "accidents". It sounds like you need to be a little more consistent with the potty training at home so she can get the hang of it. Ask her every so often if she needs to go and just take her. She will eventually get the hang of it.
She is only 4yrs old, please don't over think her behaviour as a potential negative-attention seeking pattern, unless she is doing some other things that you didn't mention. Let her be a child who will make mistakes, especially if she has not been taught correctly.
I agree - she's still learning and needs help. She probably was embarassed and didn't tell for that reason.
Now - If they told you it was 1.5 hours - that means someone saw her poop and I assume they also expected her to tell them she pooped and let her sit in her poop for 1.5 hours. Otherwise, you would have been told - she pooped in her pants today. I wonder if maybe their interpretation of responding 'firmly' is leaving your daughter feeling that she can't make mistakes (or certain ones anyway).
So - she really is just learning and having accidents - she was probably preoccupied and didn't quite realize what was happening. But, I truly would re-consider the daycare if it were me (of course I don't know all the ins and outs either!) if they let her (knowingly let her in my estimation) sit in poop.
Hi, Is there really anything to worry about? My daghter did that twice in pre-k. She came home on the bus with a load in the her pants both time. I never thought it had anything to do with attention, negative or otherwise. I asked and she did it at school and the teacher did not notice. I asked her why she didn't tell the teacer and she I don't know. It only happen the couple of times. I don't even think I bothered mention it to her Dad when he got home. Myabe your daughter just doesn't have the hang of going on the potty fully yet. If I were you, at home I would go back to asking her if she has to go every hour or so to cut down on accidents. Good luck.
stop calling them accidents....you are making a negative experience worse and she already feels badly about what has happened... have her help clean up, change her pants etc. pullups at night are just another word for diaper. at four, unless she has immature bladder and rectal sphincter she could be going to the bathroom... use a step stool and the regular toilet...not a baby potty...
Hi JM,
If she didn't tell the teacher about the accident, I don't think she is looking for attention, I think that she was embarrassed! And if it took her teachers an hour and a half to figure out that a kid had a load in their pants, I would reconsider your description of this being a "high quality daycare."
Your child is 4, kindergarten is next year and you do need to get this under control. At 4, she is capable of getting herself to the bathroom without help or reminders, unless she has a physical problem. If you never made a point of taking her to the bathroom consistently and you have a child who is having accidents because she didn't get to the bathroom in time, it's time to step up. You're the parent and she is depending on you to teach her. She sounds embarrassed when she has accidents, but if you haven't taught her to go to the toilet regularly, then this is what happens. Get her in the habit of going every hour and a half or so. By 4, kids have usually been doing this for a year or year and a half, and can now read their body's signs and just go when they have to, but it sounds like your daughter has some catching up to do. Having daily accidents means that she is not toilet trained, at 4 years old.
Good luck.
Do you think she was really seeking negative attention or just embarrassed by the accident so thats why she didn't say anything. I don't really understand your point but reading your post it sounds as if this whole potty training thing is a shameful yet not focused on learning experience both at home and at school. She's four she isn't going to succeed unless you set her up for success not failure! I have to believe that your daughter is not purposely seeking out negative attention but that she is 1) just not fully potty trained yet and 2) scared. As for the daycare teachers - is their high quality routine so strict that the teachers didn't bother to address the situation until it was the corect "potty" time? Why else would your daughter have to sit in a poopy diaper for that long? If so I'd believe that just adds to the shameful factor and in my opinion is a bit abusive so I'd rethink that daycare and whether or not I am contributing to such rigidness.
What if you followed the same routine at home to remind her when to go as they would at daycare? I teach second grade and I'm amazed at how much they still "forget" that they have to go and suddenly it's an emergency. They get too busy with whatever they're doing. Check with the dr. too make sure there's no infection or physical cause.
I would think that if your daughter is trying to get attention, she would have told her teacher. I'm more inclined to think she was embarrassed about pooping in her pants and that's why she didn't say anything. You stated that you don't have a set routine at home. Sounds pretty obvious this is why she's having accidents on a daily basis as home. As her parent, you need to be more diligent about taking her to the potty every 2 hours even if she says she doesn't have to go. I think you still have some "training" to do.
I agree with many of the others, I don't think she is seeking attention in a neg. way. She just needs a little more time w/the potty training. I would be concerned about the fact that she sat in poop for an hour and a half! Why did no one at the daycare notice? In my daughters pre-school program you can smell it pretty quickly if someone poops.
You will prob. need to have a more sstructured routine at home. Just aksing my girls if they had to go every 2-3 hours worked for us. But if you have to make her go every so often, then do that. It won't take her long to completely get the hang of it!
JM,
Just curious,
How do you know it was 1.5 hours?
Do you remind her to go to the restroom?
I don't think it is negative attention-seeking behavior. If she is still damp in the AM, she's potty trained. Her body on the other hand, is still developing. She's only 4.
Gentle, gentle reminders that include a code word or two for stopping what she is doing and 'helping her remember' or even escorting her to the doorway of the restroom will help, I think. I really do think she may not be done developing and to push things on at this point may give her lasting issues that touch on all subjects of her life.
Not an expert, but the symptoms you describe sound this way,
good luck,
M.
Hi,
If your daughter can tell you about her day, then she can tell you when she has to go to the bathroom. Does your child grab her self or find a corner to hide in? These clues will help you determine if she is not aware of it happening or has developed a feeling of ashame for having to go to bathroom. I would find out from Daycare when the bathroom time is scheduled and when your child say she has to go. May she has to be asked more often, or she might be on a different schedule then other children. All children are not alike, despite what anyone tells you. If daycare said it was 1.5 hours that she was in soiled clothes, that should give you red flags. Most daycares have a policy of bathroom schedules of 30-45 mins before and after meals and most activies,especially for children not in school yet.
Also I would make experience more of a part of every day activities, not a dreaded chore. Read books, find games that encourage talking about things that are routine hygiene/ self help skills. ( brushing teeth, bath time, bathroom time, saying please and thank you, helping with cleaning up messes. etc If you dont have a schedule at home for bathroom, then she might be confused. I would try setting up a reward system, that consist of verbal rewards as well as physical rewards, so she has something positive to keep working towards and understands that rewards come in all forms. Daycares are responsible for many children but honestly some are more lacks than they should be, and others expect all children to be the same.
You need to work with her at home too. on the weekends or at night.. you must put her on.. consistently.. each hour. Praise her when she goes in the toilet - Maybe even give her 2 m&m's as a treat when she goes in the toilet.. this will help her see that it's a good thing to do. Even at night.. if you go to bed at 10:30.. go in her room right before then.. scoop her up.. put her on the toilet.. _half sleeping.. and see if she goes.. then lie her back down . But if you want to train her to go in the toilet.. then you must stick with the training at home too. good luck
Why do you think her pooping is an attention getter? It seems to me that if she didnt tell the teacher for over an hour that she was embarrassed, not seeking attention. At 4 she should have control over her poop and be able to get to the toilet on time. Is she prone to diarrhea? If so she might need a shift in diet. Pee accidents are more common since kids tend to wait too long and then cant make it. Be alert for the "peepee dance" and tell her to stop what she is doing and go. NOW!! She will say she doesnt have to, but she does have to and you need to send her.
If you think she is seeking negative attention its up to you to provide more positive attention. Perhaps take her to the park by herself or do a girly thing, like polish her nails, with her.
If she's having poop accidents and saying she didn't have enough time to get to the bathroom, she may have a condition called encopresis. Check out these links to see if it sounds like it could be the problem:
http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/WELCOME/conditions/encopre...
