Husband Wants to Move Abroad with Small Baby - Insights Wanted

Can you go for an extended visit before you decide? One of my brothers moved to Australia. He had visited a few times for a week at a time but never stayed there longer. The adjustment once he moved there was hard for him.

I would go to Ireland for an extended visit. See what it feels like. You will be able to make a more educated decision. I would stay in a hotel. No matter how wonderful your husband's family is, there are times during a trip you just want your own space.

Ireland is absolutely beautiful. I lived there for 4 years in my 20's. I had a wonderful experience.

I would make the "move to Ireland" choice less overwhelming: don't think of it as "post-secondary school will be cheaper for my daughter" - that's 18 years from now. Go visit first.

Believe me, if your Mom is tied to a job for future retirement benefits, she will definitely understand your wanderlust and wanting to see your husband's homeland now while your baby is small. Children are harder to move once school starts, friendships forms and there's soccer practice to attend.

Go!

T. Y

There are several things that I wanted to point out - you have just had a lot of major changes in your life - a marriage, a baby, lots of outside influence from relatives. Don't be too quick to make major changes in your life without doing lots of research and a trial long term visit. If you move, your mother will miss out but you must also consider that your husband's parents are also missing out too! Things often look
"greener on the other side of the tracks", but there are certain things you need to be aware of--The unemployment rate in Ireland in June 2014 is 11.2%, down from 12.5% last October. This might not be a factor if your husband has a job available to be provided by a family member. Also your statement of healthcare and education are misleading. Healthcare is NOT FREE, you pay for it with your taxes. Ireland has a bracketed income tax system with two income tax brackets, ranging from a low of 20.00% for those earning under €36,400 (euros) to a high of 41.00% for those earning more then €36,400 (euros) a year. Is your husband going to make enough money to buy airline tickets for you and your child(ren) to fly back to the US to visit at least once a year and to buy a ticket for your mother to come to Ireland to visit you once a year?? Don't rush your decision.

Please listen to the advice that you need a very extended visit to Ireland before you do anything. But I'd be prepared for getting a lot of pressure during that visit: "Oh, you'd love raising the kids here, you'll have all this help," etc. Nice thoughts but you need to be more hard-headed and realistic and look into finances and the future, not being swayed by either your mom or his family.

And please consider that your husband may be seeing his home country through somewhat rose-tinted glasses. He needs to take them off and do many months of serious research into whether the standards of living and education there are actually so much better than here. That is just basic "due diligence." You would do the same thing if you were moving to another state in the U.S. -- you certainly must do it to move abroad.

Does he have a specific job firmly lined up, contract in hand? Will he seek one, or is he willing to go over without one? I would never move abroad without a job absolutely confirmed -- and "my cousin's boss said he could probably use me" is not a confirmed and written job offer. Would he expect you and your child to bunk with relatives while he finds a job? For how long? Do you want to do that or is it too much togetherness? Do you know and really, really like his famiily since they'd be part of your daily life?

What is the housing market like? Could you afford to buy a house or would you have to rent for a long time -- even years?

Has he investigated the real, day to day cost of living there at this time? Do food, housing, etc. cost more there than here when you factor in the exchange rate?

Will you be able to save money for your own retirements if you aren't saving for college? (And university is no longer free in the UK, not sure about the Republic of Ireland, but in the UK there is now tuition, so he should not assume your kids would go to a free university if that's part of his thinking. They could go anywhere in the world and you have to be able to save for that.)

What is the schooling situation? "State" (public) schools or parochial (Catholic) schools? Are you OK with your children having a Catholic education throughout their school years? If so, that's good, because a lot of the schools there are going to Catholic and in some areas those will possibly be better than the state schools -- but I would not assume, as he does, that all education is somehow automatically better than here. You and he need to do some research. If you are not Catholic yourself, what do you know about Catholic schooling in Ireland?

Your kids will grow up culturally Irish. That's fine but you need to be aware of it. I have a friend who moved to England more than 20 years ago and had both her kids there (now both are older teens) and they are culturally English in every way. She's OK with that but does feel a bit distanced from them at times -- what they grew up learning in school was very different from all she knew, and their attitudes and values based on the culture are different. Not bad, or wrong, just different. Of course parents are the main source of attitudes and values that kids learn, but the papers they see, the news and TV they watch, the friends they make all influence them.

I know this too because my husband is English and we visit there annually and while I love it there, I would not have wanted our child raised in the British educational system -- but that's me, not my friend and not you. Again - the Irish system will be different from English so I'm not comparing directly, just saying that you need to find out a LOT more and your husband needs to be more objective. Education over there is very different from here, not worse, just differently set up and with different expectations, and you need to know what to expect.

Is it possible that he's getting pressure from his family there to move back home so his folks can "help" with your child and future babies? How do you feel about that? Does he assume that's just "how things are" and is he critical of you when you say you're not so sure?

I think that pressing a mom with a one-month-old child to move to another country is also too much, far too soon. You and he are not even getting decent sleep and are still adjusting to your baby; your body is still out of whack and your mind totally focused on feedings and sleep --- it's too soon to make life-altering decisions like an international move, unless he has some serious job offer there right now that he must accept or decline immediately.

Don't let your earlier fantasies of European travel enter into this in any way, please. You would be a parent of an infant and small child there, not a footloose student or young married-without-kids. Yes, it's easy to travel with young kids and you could absolutely take them with you to great places in Europe (I've done it and most European countries are great about kid travelers!) but it will be very different from what you pictured back in the days of kid-free wanderlust.

This post sounds negative about the idea, but I just want you to understand that you and especially HE need to be realistic here. And do not make any decisions while you and he are both so very new to parenthood.

This is YOUR life. As lovely as it is to want to protect your mother, staying where she is (job, etc) is HER choice. You need to make whatever choice is best for YOU and YOUR family. If moving to Ireland is best for you, your mother should be happy for you and encourage you to move. If she truly has your well-being at heart, she wouldn't make you feel guilty about moving if you decide to do it. If your mother wasn't an issue, would you move in a heartbeat? Is SHE the main thing holding you back? If so, that's your answer.

My parents live a 24hr plane ride away (and have my entire adult life). Literally on the other side of the world. I'm still extremely close to them, as are my children. We Skype, email, Facebook, Instagram, you name it, we're in contact through it. In today's world, distance is almost irrelevant. There are so many ways to still stay close if you make the effort. I would NEVER say my parents have been denied the privilege of watching their grandkids grow up. They've "been there" every step of the way!

If I were you, I'd go. Definitely.

I agree with another mom who pointed out that this is alot to consider given that you have just had a baby. I'm not sure I'd make *any* big decisions until your baby is a bit older.

Also - sorry to jump right to the negative - if you move to Ireland and at some point down the road you and your husband divorce (God forbid), how will you bring her back to the U.S.? The laws governing international custody can be different that what we are accustomed to. ETA: Yes, your daughter will be a U.S. citizen due to her birth, but if she has been living in Ireland for a certain period of time, and her father is a citizen of Ireland, Ireland may have the jurisdiction over her custody in the event of a divorce. There are international laws which govern this issue. Please consult a qualified attorney.

He married you here. Your daughter was born here. To leave for another country is a MAJOR decision that should not be entered into lightly.

I say this as a person who LOVES Europe, and would love to live there someday. But my children are grown (with one close to adulthood) so it's a completely different situation.

It could be a great move for you guys. But no matter what it is a huge decision. Give it some time and *lots* of due diligence.

Good luck.

Interesting that you got some political answers here! I didn't see that as your main focus!

Your mother was a teen mom so she knows how hard it is to raise a child. You have some people coming out of the woodwork now, which is nice, but the flip side is, they weren't all that interested in you for years. So building a life around them might take some time, even assuming that the fascination with your daughter doesn't wear off.

Kids are much easier to relocate at young ages - no messing up the schools or disrupting the friendships. Your mother misses you but you only see each other every 6 months. If you lived in Ireland, you feel you would have many more financial advantages. You would have extended family - something you and your mother never had.

So, if you were to move to Ireland for, say, 6 months, to really experience it, what would you lose? Not time with your mother - you could see her before you leave. You could get to know your husband's family and see if it's all as wonderful and supportive as you hope. You wouldn't have to take all your things - put all but the essentials in storage, and rent a small house or apartment (furnished, or rent furniture, or use yard sale finds) for the short term. You wouldn't be living WITH relatives - you would have your own space. But you wouldn't be investing in property in Ireland. If you own a house here, you could rent it short-term.

If your husband can find work in Ireland, great. If you all love it there, great. If you hate it, you have to have a return plan with your husband. Yes, you would be the immigrant and the in-law. But isn't that your husband's role while you both live in the US? So by definition, at least one of you is going to be the "outsider" in any country in the world.

Hopefully you and your husband have excellent communication and have had discussions of how to handle this. Hopefully you will be able to listen to each other as you go through any new experiences.

Your mother will be sad that you are leaving, yes. But she already lives 6 hours away, only sees you twice a year, isn't willing to leave her job because she needs the security (and so she should understand your need for security), and she doesn't have a rich social life because of her own choices. If she's happy there, that's great. It's not up to you to make her happy. She's 46 and has many many years ahead of her - if she decides to join you in Ireland, that could be great. If she doesn't, you sound like you will have many more financial opportunities and could fly her over for a visit every 6 months. You'd see her as much as you see her now. It sounds like you're farther away, but in terms of actual contact, it's exactly the same.

You've had this desire for adventure - go ahead and try it out. It's a lot easier to visit Europe when you're already there! Sometimes Americans forget how small the countries are over there and how easy it is to travel. Friends of mine rented a house in France for a year, rented their house in the US, home schooled the 3 kids, traveled extensively while the husband explored his dream of starting a wine importing business. After a year they came back and he started a successful business. They had a glorious time traveling to Germany, Switzerland, Holland, etc. because everything was so close. They never intended to live there long term but it was a great experience.

If you don't do something, will you always regret it?

You are a good daughter to consider these things so carefully.

This is really a decision only you and your husband can make. But here's my take:

Your mother lives in a small, insular town. Are there employment opportunities there? Often there are few jobs in towns like that. The only person in that town that you know is your mother. In Ireland, there is a large extended family. Based on those things alone, Ireland is sounding like the better option. You will appreciate having a large family for your daughter, with lots of cousins to play with.

I assume there is a job(s) in Ireland? Can you work there? Do you need to? Employment is usually the #1 factor in where people end up living.

I certainly understand your mother wanting you to live near her. I hope to live near my grandchildren once I have them. However, you cannot base your life around your mother. If your mother is lonely, it is not your job to fill her loneliness. I'm a decade older than your mother, and I'm perfectly capable of creating my own social network, and I have. Your mother is young, in my books. An irregular work schedule is no excuse for not having a social life. Your mother needs to join groups and clubs so she can gain some friends. There is ALWAYS a way to gain a social network.

You need to do what is best for your own family. I don't know how you will convince your husband to move to a small town just to placate your quite young and capable mother's need for a social life. If you move to Ireland, your mother will just have to visit 3 or 4 times a year. Since you are already 6 hours away, you are already not seeing her that often.

Between the two options, my vote is Ireland. However, Mel's advice is very good, and Ireland may not be perfect either. Ultimately, you don't move ANYWHERE because of extended family, but instead you do what is best for your own family.

Lots of change in a very short period of time. You and your husband and daughter need to adjust to one another.

You seem to be hung up on free stuff. Free healthcare, free babysitters. Sweetie, I learned a long time ago, nothing in life is free. Healthcare is paid for with heavy taxes. Ireland is having an economic meltdown. Unemployment is rather high there so I would be sure that the standard of living is better than what you have now.

Questions:
1. Does your husband have a job lined up?
2. Does your husband have housing lined up? Are you going to live with his family?
3. Do you have job skills that are transferrable?
4. What is your expectation of visiting the USA? Yearly, every two years.

These are conversations that you and your husband need to have about the move to Ireland.

Now about your mom. It is wonderful that she is wanting to be a part of your daughter's life. Its too bad she didn't make that effort with you these last 8 years. Personally, I wouldn't put too much of what she wanted as opposed to what would be best for your family. If moving closer to your mother makes it so you and your husband can't find employment, what good does that do for your family? You have your own family now and you have to put their needs above your mother's or in-law's needs.

I would be leary to make any more drastic changes to my life at this point if I were you.

Please read the responses below very carefully.

This is a huge change. You've had major changes in your life in the last year, with a marriage and a baby. Now this?

I agree with others, go for an extended visit.
What plan does your husband have? How is he going to provide for the family? Will you be able to work on a visa? Will there be a job for you if you want to work? Last I checked, flights from Seattle to Dublin is 9 hours, not 18.

Re-read the posts that tell you nothing in life is free. You are not getting "free" health care anywhere in the world. It's all being paid for by working people taxes, doesn't matter what country you live in. It's NOT free. So wipe that thought from your head. I apologize if that sounds mean, but you really need to understand how things work.

You have a lot to talk and think about. Find out what your husband's plan is. How long will does he plan on staying, permanently? How often will you be able to afford to fly back to visit your mom or will you be able to afford to pay for her to come visit you?

Would I make the move right now? Most likely not. Not without assurances of housing, jobs/financial security and my visa status as well as that of my daughter. If my marriage falls apart, will I be allowed to leave Ireland with her? Citizenship questions need to be answered too.

Go. Immediately,

America is going down very fast. I am so disappointed in the country that my forefathers and foremothers slaved to build. We are spending more time and effort assuring illegal immigrants a free life, that we ignore our own nation's children.

As for your mom, I am in her shoes. I have no close relatives except my son. If he moved to a different state or country and invited me along--I would go in a heartbeat.

Invite her and see what she says.

Diane B., people have a right to voice their opinions politically if that has a bearing on their reply. Just answer the question in your fashion and allow others to do the same.

not knowing the answers to many questions people have asked you here, i want to chime in with what info you have given us.
first of all, i would move to ireland. i would not give up something just because grandma wants to see her grand baby. as for traveling 18 hrs back to see your mom, it will come down to your finances and if you can afford it.
i made the move to come to the states 15 years ago. i see my former home through the eyes of someone longing for something, not for what it was or is now. i do miss my family, but my kids do not miss out on having extended family. my husband's parents live 3 hrs away driving and we see them maybe once a year. my parents live in a different continent and we see them once a year. my kids are well rounded, well adjusted kids. they have mom and dad and that's all they need.
bottom line, if your husband can find a job in ireland, and if he has plenty of close and extended family, and if it has been a dream of yours to live in europe, girlfriend, do it.
also, you and your daughter will always be us citizens, so if a few years down the road you change your mind, you can always come back.

Why is it ok to break your MILs heart by being far away but not your mothers? They are both grandparents to your daughter. And I'm sure your mil wants to know your daughter just as much as you mom does.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but rather to point out that you can never make everyone happy. You need to do what is best for you, your daughter, and your husband.

And no decision is permanent. If you decide to go and in a few years you realize it's not right for your family, you can move back.

I say go. You just might love it.

I think you should move. It sounds like you have always wanted to and you have led your husband to believe that. You can still see your mom 1-2x a year if you live in Europe. You can see her more often if you want to. She is 46 and perfectly capable of getting on a plane to come see you as well. Now, if after a year or two, you are miserable you can discuss it again. But consider either way you handle this, one set of grandparents will be far from their grandchild.

Talk to your husband. He's probably feeling a lot like you are. He's thinking about his growing up years and how his life was too.

Have you visited Ireland? Have you been there and met his family and spent real time with them? You might absolutely love it! You might also hate it.

Your hubby has some great reason's for going back there.

If "I" had the option of free health care like most of the civilized countries on our planet have I'd go home and never leave that country. Our health care is atrocious here in America. No other country treats their people like ours does.

What is your career? Do you plan on working? Will you have job opportunities there? His family would probably help with the baby so child care would not be a problem right?

Do you want to live an a big city or small hamlet/village? Does he dream of going home and being a sheep farmer? or something more urban?

I'd want to see a plan, set some goals, visit the country and see how it feels.

I know several women who've married men from other countries and a couple of them moved to their hubby's homeland.

One friend took on his country immediately. She absolutely loves it. She has no plans of ever coming back to America even to visit. Her mom (recently retired) plans on moving there too, as soon as she can get her status stuff done.

I'm not sure how to state that. She has to go through a long process to be allowed to live there and once she receives the country's acceptance? Permission? Invitation? she can move there and be allowed to work, live, and all that sort of stuff. I guess like a Visa????

Anyway, this lady is so happy in this new country. She went once and didn't come back.

The other person went to England. She's not completely happy and misses America. She would be happier at home but she's not miserable. She just missed being able to run to the corner 7-11 at midnight for an Icee...It's a foreign country after all but still civilized and cultured.

So you need to go visit his homeland and spend some real time there.

If he can work from home for a month why not go there and visit and see what it's like?

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ETA

I too worry about America. I worry that bombs will start going off and poison's will be in our air and water and we'll be bombarded with horrible actions by terrorists. I think about it almost all the time now that so much is going on in the news.

Ireland isn't free from those things. They have their own issues too. I think about how I grew up, how innocent to the wars, terror attacks, and stuff like that and I wish my grand kids didn't have that sort of horror to learn about.

We are treating every other culture in America to more rights than we ourselves get. If I was an illegal alien I'd have full insurance and food stamps and a monthly check coming in instead of having to do without food and needed items so the kids can have enough. We live on SSDI and it's not a great income but it's more than welfare. We can't get foodstamps because our "unearned income" is mathematically higher than the same income that is from working. We don't have taxes withheld or work related expenses. So they add about 23% to our income when figuring if we can get assistance or not. So we don't get any help. The kids get free lunches and medical cards but I don't get any help.

Our country is going downhill and our rights as citizens, Christians, human beings are being swept under the carpet so foreigners can walk on that carpet and have free rides. AND we're sitting back and allowing it.

If I had the opportunity to move to a foreign country I'd go visit and see if it was anything I could live with and if it was I'd happily pack a suitcase and move away to never return.

Well, I personally think you need to go and just make sure to do what you can to stay in touch with your mom and keep her a part of your daughters life. It is still very possible and it sounds like moving close to your mom would not be a good idea anyway. Maybe you could get her a ticket once a year to come out.
Give it a time frame, 3 years or something like that and then decide if you guys want to stay or move back.

I would definitely not move by my mother to make her happy. You will have fun for a few weeks then possibly be miserable and ask yourself just what the heck you did. Most small towns don't offer a whole lot, and that sounds like what you describe your moms town as. I would be nervous moving overseas myself, but that is just me. I would love to have a large family as you describe, in laws or not! And I would not want to deny my children the opportunity to know that family either! Maybe you can move there with the stipulation that in a few years you can revisit your decision and make sure you did the best thing for your family. Don't make this huge of a decision with only your mother in mind.

Commit to a year and see how it goes. It will be much, much easier on your daughter to move to a new country (and potentially back again) at this age than it would when she is older. Give it a try, you may love it! And if it does not work for your family, you can always come home.
I would look into getting official dual citizenship for your daughter before you go, and also look at the impact of different lengths of time on both your and your husband's various visas and immigration status. I have a friend who is married to a man from the UK, so I have a little familiarity with some of the legal hoops involved.

My kids were born overseas, and we have never had the chance to live close to any family members, but the kids are still close with their grandparents. We visit as often as we can, we call on the phone, and we Skype whenever we can, it keeps us close.

We would move back to Europe in a heart beat given the chance.

I agree with most of the responses. I'd move in a heartbeat. It almost sounds selfish of you not to. One family member in the states vs. a whole bunch in Ireland? Set aside a little money each month for your mom to come visit each year. Facetime/Skype, Facebook to keep in touch. No, it's not the same, but it's something. Ultimately, you have to decide though, and you both need to be happy about your decision, or someone is going to be left bitter. You can always move back.

Maybe your Mom might like coming to visit you in Ireland?

http://joannagoddard.blogspot.com/2013/08/11-surprising-t...

I relocated across the country to where my husband lived. His family is 6 plus hours away so we don't have any family close by. What everyone else said about extended visits first. I do want to pipe in that you and your husband have had very big changes and a move is one of the most stressful things that happen in a life. So I would think you'd want to explore and plan on this being a year or two down the road. Your husbands habits may change being closer to his family. Will he want to be with them all the time? Will you ever have a quite weekend again?

On the other side, your are equating seeing your mom twice a year with her being able to see her grandchild grow up. To me twice a year does not equate to this. If it where me, I'd be sure that part of your agreement with you husband is that you and he WILL pay the cost of either your mom coming once a year or you going home once a year for at least one week.

I would only go under certain circumstances. It would have to be temporary and I would need a firm promise on "x" number of years OR mom would have to make the move too, and live in her own place. It doesn't sound like much would be holding her back and she is young enough for a big adventure like this!

Added: Awesome advice from Mel R.!!!!!!

Being from the UK (Lived in Wales 32 years) and now living in Texas for seven. I can say that without a doubt, the lifestyle is better in the UK. Everything about it will be better for you and your family. The weather in Ireland is not great, that is a downside for sure, and Ireland is small. Things will feel claustrophobic to you. I want to move back, but my Texan husband is having none of it. He thinks it's better over here. But to me there is no comparison. The actual "standard" of living really won't be much different, houses and yards are way smaller, cars are smaller. Food is cheaper and better quality.

Ditto Tracy Y, great advice!