Please Help - 5 Year Old Won't Go to Sleep

Sounds like you probably just need to pick something and stick to your guns. Consistency is key for any child to feel secure in what they're doing. I'd pick a good nightlight and maybe just let him cry it out if he needs to.
I've had those times where I've just been offering too many choices and it's confusing to the child. It gives them too much power and they can't handle it.
Ask him "nightlight or door cracked?" 2 choices. That's it. It gives him a little power, but limits him to just those two options. Mommy's bed is not an option. Getting up is not an option, etc. Good luck mama! Hope you guys get some good rest!!

It's hard to answer this because it seems like you only want honesty if it aligns with how you feel. As gently as I can I will say it seems to me that you are being played, big time. What you describe doesn't sound like a traumatized child but a kid who is repeating unpleasant behavior because it is working for him.
What your exact method is doesn't matter just pick a bed time routine and stick to it at all costs. Do not give him anymore attention for not sleeping, if he gets up, silently walk him back to his room, every, single, time. Say something calmly like "it's bedtime now, we expect you to stay in your bed" and walk out of the room.
Judging by your post it may take a lot of patience and control. Consistency is imparative. DO NOT CAVE. If you give in even once you can scrap all your work and start at the beginning.
I know you won't like to hear this but if you don't take a stand now, with this issue, there will be a lot bigger issues to tackle down the road and the stakes get higher and higher as your boy grows up.
If he is really traumatized so badly he cannot sleep for months on end a visit to the doctor or counselor may be in order. That seems unlikely to me.
Finally, I have never known a single adult or child that needs melatonin to sleep. I'm sure there are a few people out there who do medically need it but teaching a young child that they need to ingest something in order to sleep seems a very slippery slope to me, just sayin'.

Talk to your Dr about Melatonin to help your son get to sleep. Melatonin taken in the evening coupled with bright light exposure in the morning helps to regulate the sleep cycle. Good luck!

I think this is one for the experts-I just want you to know that I hope you sort this out soon-I can hear the despair in your voice.

My friend has 3 kids under 5.
5, 4, 3.
Nighttime is torture for her because they feed off of each other and if one gets up, so do the other two.
She works full time and so does her husband. The children are involved in regular gymnastic sessions, they go to school, they are animals when they get home.
They are super cute kids, don't get me wrong, but she has really been implementing the dinner, bath, jammies, reading, lights out in your own beds, DONE.
Her house was such chaos at night and the kids were fighting bedtime.
She called me a couple of times and I couldn't be on the phone with her for the kids screaming and jumping around.
She didn't know what to do.
She loves her kids but she finds that just being consistent and putting them back to bed and back to bed has worked much better for everyone.
They are getting in the habit of bed time meaning bed time.
She has 3...so she just has to not cave in because it becomes a domino effect. And, they actually sleep better in their own beds after they go down anyway.

Lay down with your child. Tell him it's only for 15 minutes. In that time, no TV or other distractions. Rub his shoulders, talk to him about happy thoughts and what a wonderful day he will have tomorrow. Tell him how much you love him and you send him angels on his pillow to protect him and give him good sleep.
Then...go out.
If he comes out, send him back.
My friends kids were up 9,10,11, 12....no one was getting any sleep.
And they all have to be up and out early in the morning.
My kids were ready for bed. Especially my son. That kid would konk out before I could even get a book open.
Just get into a routine that includes cuddle time with lights out and night night time. Don't let it get dragged out. He may try it, but laying with him for an hour isn't getting him drifted off to sleep.

Sometimes kids hear things during the day that might scare them so deal with that during the day instead of right when it's bed time. Check the room...no monsters, no bad guys, nothing under the bed. Safe, safe, and safe. Good to go for nigh nigh.

That's just my opinion.
We travelled alot and my kids could sleep anywhere. Literally.
It just takes being consistant.

Best wishes.

I find it hard to even find something to judge you on!! Don't worry so much about being judged. Honestly, it sounds like you're really going through a trial with him, and that you've done everything a compassionate mother would do!

Beyond taking him to a doctor and discussing this, I just have an observation.

Some children don't care for sleep. I didn't. I would lay awake in my bed until 12 o'clock most nights at this age and on. My mother was NOT compassionate about it...so I went to bed at 7 or 8 or whenever, and just laid in the dark with no stimulation for 3-5 hours. I would get soooo bored I would count just to pass time, and as I got older, I exercised instead. This honestly went on until I was in high school, when I just locked the door, turned on my music low (but she still insisted she could hear it) and read until 12.

Both of my children are this way. Doesn't matter what time I get them up at, they both have a hard time falling asleep. I put my 6 (soon to be 7) year old to bed at 8, and she reads with a low lamp on until she falls asleep...usually by 10. I wish it were earlier, but it's not. My 20 month old doesn't fall asleep until after her older sister, generally.

I am grateful I homeschool, because I think my six year old would be a very different child if I had to get her up at six every morning. And believe me, I gave that a go...got her up that early for several months in a row, and she NEVER adjusted to going to sleep any earlier.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice, beyond checking with your doctor...I just honestly think some people don't go to bed well. I still don't, and I'm in my 30s. I get up at 7 every morning, but I still won't go to bed until after 1 am. I'm not really that tired most days, either...some people seem to need less sleep.

Oh! I forgot. As far as the manipulation goes...I guess I'd try letting him have soft music at night (we rotate...classical, Christian, reggae, Christmas, the Archies, Smokey Robinson, the WallE soundtrack, etc...) and letting him read all the books he wants to. THat's my rule...stay in bed, but have all the music and books you want. :)

Maybe, you should talk to your Pediatrician about this.
Maybe there is a medical basis.

Most 5 year olds, will get tired and sleep and/or pass out.
Especially if they are in school.

So being you tried everything and many methods, I would really talk to your Pediatrician.

Or.... put a floor mattress or towel on the floor of your room. And tell him he can ONLY sleep there. Not in your bed. In your room, but not in your bed. And give him a flashlight for keeping in bed with him.

Once, my daughter who is 9, had a nightmare. So then she didn't want to sleep in her bed. Because she said her bed gave her nightmares. Of course intellectually she knew the bed didn't "give" her nightmares. But so, then she slept on the floor next to her bed and got sleep that way. And that was fine with me. No biggie. She got sleep. Then a couple weeks of that, she went back to sleep in her bed. On her own.

If nothing helps, yes, talk to the Pediatrician.
Maybe he has medical based sleep issues.

Have you asked your son what he dreams that scares him since he says it's nightmares? Do you think this is the case or an excuse? I think I'd talk about that and then be firm about him staying in his room and if he doesn't sleep he will learn to.

I lay with my daughter too, we talk for a few minutes, then I tell her that I'll stay only if she's quiet and trying to go to sleep. I pat her back and smooth her hair which calms her and relaxes her to sleep. She was getting up and going to our room in the middle of the night, and I told her that we would have to move her room to the basement where there were fewer distractions and less light through the window (it's not a dungeon...its a nice finished basement). She doesn't want to move to the basement, so she's been staying in her room all night. She does eventually fall back asleep. So far, so good

Ok, my son just recently was able to stop needing melatonin to sleep, there are some days where he still needs it but only a few nights a week now. I suggest that if the reason you are being given is nightmares then you two make a dreamcatcher together - there goes that one! Give only ONE night light, read a story, and give him a book to look at while alone. In addition give him an LED flashlight for "emergencies" only to keep with him. I honestly think that your son is being stubborn not having a hard time being able to sleep if this is a recent development, my son only slept for a few hours at a time out of pure exhaustion (sp) from birth until 2.5 when we tried melatonin. In addition when my son transitioned from our bed to his own this year (co slept until 5) he was not allowed to play video games the next day if he got out of his bed for anything other than potty trip before sun up. You will have TONS of advice on this topic, some you will like, some you will not like, some that will help and some that will make you cry from frustration - comes with the teritory of asking people, esp strangers for advice. Below is a link on dreamcatchers incase you are not familiar with them and an easy kid friendly craft to make them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcatcher
http://www.ehow.com/list_###-###-####_simple-dreamcatcher...

Have you tried putting a mattress on the floor in your room? That way if he gets scared he can come in and go to sleep but you can still get some sleep. Can he tell you what the nightmares are about? I would discontinue any television, video games and movies. Also, any scary books - and I would ask him what he considers scary. My son (6) had no problem with books about Great White Sharks but won't read most of the Magic Treehouse books because he finds them frightening. I would also consider that maybe the nightmares could relate to something bad that has really happened to him. If this could be the case, I would seek professional help.

I say this after having 3 kids and being too flexible with the oldest for too long-- you are being manipulated. You're going to have to come up with a bedtime schedule and time frame that works well for YOU and be consistent with it. It may take months, but remember that now that he is this age, bedtime should be less about making him comfortable and more about teaching him good habits. Good habits are taught with consistency and a positive attitude. I found audio books to be very helpful for keeping kids in bed at this age. Sometimes my kids push it and stay up way too long, so I set a limit. If they are still awake an hour after I put them to bed, they get no more books to listen to. Instead they get my choice of boring sleepy music. If they get out of bed, I remind them that all of their needs have been met (food, water, toilet, blanket, nightlight, etc) and that the next time they get up to mess around, I will take away a privilege. For the most part, this works for us-- and I have 3 kids in one bedroom. Good luck!

HI, I had a suggestion that may help.
It helps my 3 kids on tough nights. After _1 bedtime story & prayer, I lead a simple relaxation excersize that goes like this:
Soft voice: "ok, now it's time to relax. Start with a deep breath in, then out. (5 breaths usually)
Begin to relax your head and feel it sink in to your pillow.
Relax your face; starting with your forehead, then your eyes, now your cheeks, nose, mouth, & chin. Relax your shoulders and arms, your hands and fingers, then your back, so that you feel your warm bed under you."
Continue all the way to the tips of the toes and work back up to the top of his head. *usually by this time they are too sleepy to respond* THen I say: "good night love, have sweet dreams and remember, think _happy thoughts. I'll see you in the morning"
One mom also suggested walking him back to bed silently, and while I agree, I think it needs just a touch of love, a hug before you leave your room and another kiss good night; helps him know he's loved but keeps the rule. Just before I leave the room, I say gently, "you know where to find me if you need me again." And if he does, repeat the hug, walk, goodnight kiss, and the same words.
Oh, another thing we did for our son, was a "monster check" just take a flashlight and peak under in and around the room then let him do it himself. Though it did take some time, and pacience these are methods that worked for us, I hope they will help you too.
God bless,
A.

Well, you are more patient than I am on this issue. I have a son close to the same age (almost 6). We have some bedtime drama but not with the same frequency as you describe. We sit with him for 20-30 minutes at bedtime after stories and such. We put a comfy chair in his room for this (less chance to wake him when I leave). I read with a book light and don't talk to him. He is a talker so if he wants me to stay he has to be quiet or I leave. I also take things away if he disobeys or won't stay in bed. I have tried the progressive relaxation (where you tell him to relax each body part) and it does help. I save it for nights when he won't settle down. I also have one really long kids' book I read in my most boring voice when all else has failed. I have little patience with kids in my bed (I have struggled with insomnia for years) so I walk him back to his bed and doze in the comfy chair for a short while (but I don't have 2 hours worth of patience in the middle of the night). If your son is in the habit of coming into your room how about a sleeping bag and a not too comfortable mat on the floor. If he is really scared he has the option but it's less attractive.

It seems like the question is how to tell if he is really afraid or manipulating you. Can he tell you what he is afraid of or what his nightmares are about? I had conversations with my son along the lines of dreams can be scary but they can't really hurt you. Then we talked about if he had any real world fears and tried to deal with each one. For example he heard about the "brain eating amoeba" article that was circulating recently and we had a discussion about how it does not live in our area and there is a very very small chance of coming in contact with it anyway. Same thing with ghosts--a lot of people say they aren't real but even if you believed they were they can't hurt you because they have no physical body. I could go on and on but the idea is to trouble shoot the fear with logical thinking (this worked me as a kid and on my son but might not on all kids)

When is his bedtime? My son is supposed to be in bed at 8 so if his is asleep at 8:30 it is fine. If he is up until 9 he is a bit tired but able to function at least until dinnertime. If it is several nights in a week of 9 or later then things get ugly. But his bedtime has slipped maybe 20-30 minutes later in the last year. At the beginning of the school year he was adjusting to a longer school day and was really tired for a while. Maybe he needs his bedtime adjusted slightly. On the other extreme my son is very difficult when he is overtired and also gets hyper and has a hard time settling down to sleep. These are the nights for the long boring story, relaxation exercise or even a dose of benedryl (used rarely but sometimes helpful to break a bad overtired cycle).

The only other thing I can think of is explaining the problem and asking him for his ideas. Maybe it will help you find a workable solution. Anyway, good luck.

What kind of routine does he have? Has that been changed in the time that he's started this? Has he watched different shows? Been scared by anything? What time do you start getting him wound down for bed? Did this start before or after he knew he was moving to a new school?

When he comes in, as tired as you are, take him back to his own bed. Remind him that he sleeps there and if he needs you, he can get you or call for you, but his bed is where he needs to be. Unless my DD is sick or really scared, she stays in her own bed. There have been times when she had a nightmare and I held her for a bit, because that can be scary but she goes back to her own bed to sleep. When she decided she didn't like her bed, I made her a nest on the floor. I put her in her own bed last night. She protested but I put it all back in her bed and told her the nest was on the bed like a bird in a tree. She did fine. I think she liked the novelty of the floor but I didn't want her there full-time.

I think the first nights might be hard, but after you show him that you really mean he needs to stay put, then it will get easier. Don't listen to the whining. It may have started after a legitimate dream or fear and became a habit. He may really be seeing what he can get away with. I wouldn't lay down with him. You can read him a book in bed, sing him a song, give him hugs and kisses and say, "Good night." If he doesn't have a lovey, maybe go find one and then that becomes his comfort at 1AM. *You* define bedtime.

I've also talked to DD about how we can't have fun the next day if we are tired and cranky. Just like it's important to eat good food, it's important to get good sleep. And, frankly, after some really bad nights, we haven't done all we planned because we were too tired. The other night she knew that storytime was the next day. She said, "I need to sleep so I can get up early for storytime, right?" I said that was a good idea.

I'm not saying that I haven't had my share of issues, but I really think that getting a routine and comforting her but putting her back to her own bed has helped DD a lot. If he was much younger, I'd suggest you sit in his doorway or something, but this is an older child and I think if you just put him back to to bed he'll stop. He's a smart kid. He'll get it.

One more thought - my SD didn't like to go to bed and had trouble sleeping (still does). We told her she had to stay quietly in her room. It may be that rather than the goal being to get him asleep by x time, you get him in BED by that time and check before you go to sleep. If he's still up, remind him you love him and thank him for staying quiet in his bed.

Can you add how many hours your son is sleeping? My oldest has never gone to bed before 9:00. It kills me bc I love to sleep but she just doesn't seem to need as much as I'd expect. She also had major nightmares and insisted on sleeping in our room etc. I think she was 5.5 when this started. Eventually we put a mattress on the floor and she'd go to sleep in our room while one of us had to sit there. Absurd I know. Difference is how your son isn't even going to sleep if you lie down with him. Does he seem tired the next day?

My sons had probablems with that and yes it wears you out. My oldest his started much younger and we discovered that there where things going on at the daycare he'd been going to that we did not know about. We took him to his ped and a councilor to see what was wrong. With him at night we just let him go to sleep in our bed till we were ready to go to sleep. I would lay with him and play music and rub his back. with my little one they shared a room so he didn't have to be in my room but we did have to have light and music and still do. And we would just pray with him that God would help take the bad dreams away. If he continues I would take him to his dr and possible a councilor. There could be things going on that he does not know how to explain.

Good luck and God Bless!!!

Well I had the same kind of trouble with one of my kids, and I truly feel like it is the child trying to gain control. I am not trying to be mean either. I never did take my son outside, ever, I made him lay down, and I stood over him while I watched him lay down. And I caved in a lot too, because face it we get tired too. My suggestion to you is, let him stay up a little later, and do not under any circumstances take him outside after dark. You are teaching him that its ok to wake up the family, just so he can go outside and play. I know you are just trying to get his energy out, but what do you think his little mind is thinking, when he gets to go outside at 1am? Do not let him in your bed either. If he comes in your room, make him sleep on the floor. He may get cold and uncomfortable, and want his own bed back. Tell him there is not enough room in your bed anymore since he is getting so big I have dealt with similiar situations with my youngest, and it just takes patience and an unwillingness to give in on your part. And it is not fun. Good luck to you.