Seeking Advice on Strong Willed, Hot Tempered 4Yr Old

I feel for you! I too have a strong willed 4 year old. I notice he melts down, more extreme, when he is tired or hungry. Watching those two things inparticular has helped. I have also started talking to him once he calms down about his behavior and letting him know it is unacceptable. I also "warn" him prior to an event I know causes a melt down. If it is getting dressed, maybe try talking to her before you start getting dressed and explain to her the consequence if she acts up or has a tantrum. If he throws a tantrum in the evening (6:30 or after) it then becomes bedtime. That has made a BIG impact on him. If he throws a tantrum prior to an event (like going to the movies or a play date) I warn him it will result in not doing the event - then if he continues, we don't go. I have only had to cancel plans twice and now he knows I mean it and controls his tantrums much better. Stick to it and don't give him. It's not fun, but I have really seen a change in him.

My three year old acts the same way sometimes. Her favorite is to just scream at me and sometimes even hit. Time out doesn't work. The few times I've tried spanking she just tells me "It's not nice to hit." Which I can't argue with. So my new tactic is to ignore her when she's throwing one of her fits. Even if we are in public, I will tell her that I will not respond to her when she's acting in such a way and she needs to pull herself together. So far, it's been working better than anything else I've tried. She's looking for attention when she throws these tantrums so if she doesn't get what she's looking for she stops pretty quickly. And then when she calms down I try to have a nice talk with her and find out what her problem was and give her some positive attention to show her that acting good is the best way to get attention. If you find anything that works for you, please share.

I had the same problem, I gave my child options on somethings that I shouldnt have and then she thought she had a choice on everything. I soon had to stop giving her an option and just made the decision and she soon began to know it was this way or no way. It had gotten to the point where we were late to everything due to arguing with a 4 yr old for me. She is now 5 and follows better, I know she doesnt like it but she knows there now its my way or now way. I dont know what I am going to do when she is a teenager.

I just finished answering another help request along these lines, but it sounds like you need it even more! If you do nothing else, go get the book "The New Strong-Willed Child" by Dr. James Dobson. It was a life saver for me, and it sounds like its EXACTLY what you need too. I recommend it to every parent (even if they don't think their child is strong-willed)and I re-read periodically myself. I'm sure you will too!

Have you taken away tv, completely. That is one thing there are certain cartoons that cause my 5 year old to completely become disrespectful and not like herself. I would try to take away tv for about a week and see if that helps. I have heard that most behavior problems are food related. You might want to cut out processed food entirely and go to a whole foods only diet for a while to see if that helps. Fresh fruits, veggies, natural products, nothing w/ preservatives. Good luck.

I am going through the same thing with my 5 yr old daughter. I talked to our pediatrician and was reffered to a family therapist. She has been seeing the therapist every 2 weeks since June and just earlier this week they did an evaluation on her. Come to find out she suffers from ODD (Oppositional, defiency disorder) There is no real cure. She will continue with behavioral therapy, If over time this does not help we will have to look into other options (medication) I want this to be a last resort though. I'm not saying that this is what is wrong with your child but I would definitely talk with your pediatrician or doctor about it. This way at least if there is a problem they can catch it. Good Luck!!!

Leave the scene or isolate your daughter in her room when the tantrum starts. Calmly tell her that when she can act like a "big girl" then you will tuck her in, play with her, read a book, etc. I believe it's got to be for attention and she is loooking for an audience and if the audience is gone, it's not too much fun. Talk to her throughout the day that it's not the way you act to get what you want. Also, reward throughout the day for "good behavior".

Wow! I sure do feel your frustration! My 4 year old son is the most stubborn, manipulative, frustrating, yet loveable child I know! He typically likes to see how far he can push me until he gets some sort of reaction. Sometimes he just plain ignores my pleas for him to do or not do something. Other times it's a temper tantrum or just constant whining and begging or repeating the same question over and over and over until I just want to disappear! What My husband and I have been practicing lately(which is the only thing that has helped) is to get down to his level at all times (if possible) and give some sort of contact. Like eye contact, gently touch his arm or hold his hand etc. Then really talk to him. For example asking him "Riley what is wrong with this kind of juice? What would you rather have?" Be nice, even though it's tough. Kids are constantly trying to get our attention, and they do not differentiate between positive and negative attention! When I stop and give him my focus and talk to him,(not like Mom telling child yes or no), he talks right back to me. Sometimes He still tries to get his way, but then I have to explain(in a way he understands) that "no you may not have the cake before dinner because it is a treat and a reward for being good at dinner time" Sometimes we play the clock game when it comes to having to wait for something that he wants right now. I'll say you can go play at the park at 3 o'clock. And since he doesn't know how to tell time, I keep him updated. He'll ask how long now? And I'll say 1 hour. or 25 min. etc. This also teaches him about time, and patience. If I have to sit right on the floor and have him come sit on my lap, I will. I want him to know that I hear him with out the fighting to get my attention. With 5 boys in my house it takes some juggling, but every child needs reassured that what they feel and have to say is just as important as the things you feel and have to say. Sometimes punishment is just that. Punishment. Maybe a new approach to communicating with her is key, rather than focusing on treating her behavior? I wish you patience, love and most of all the elusive understanding of a child! God Bless!

Walk away from her. When she is throwing her fit, she wants attension. If you ignore her and walk away, she is not getting the attension. Sounds like she is really trying to test her waters. Just don't give in. I agree with spanking when necessary. Good luck!

WE HAD THE SAME ISSUE W/ OUR 8 YEAR OLD (THEN - AT 4) STRANGE HOW SIMILAR YOUR STORY IS TO OUR THEN STORY!

WE HAD TO USE MANY TACTICS - BUT I DO SUGGEST TAKING TIME TO GET AND READ THOUROUGHLY "Parenting the Strong-Willed Child (Paperback)
by Rex Forehand, Nicholas Long

AMAZON HAS THESE AS CHEAP AS .99 USED. IT'S WELL WORTH IT - IT WAS FOR US. ANOTHER IDEA - WHAT WE DID AT TIMES - WAS TO GIVE TO CHOICES - AT 4 THEY WANT SOME INDEPENDANCE THEY WANT TO BE IN CHARGE OF THEIR ROUTINE.... BUT GIVING 2 CHOICES THAT ARE BOTH WHAT 'YOU THE PARENT' WANT AS AN OUTCOME "FEELS" LIKE YOU'RE GIVING THEM CONTROL. FOR EXAMPLE SAY "HONEY, IT'S ALMOST TIME FOR BATH, SO I NEED YOU TO CHOOSE WHICH YOU WANT TO DO FIRST, TAKE A BATH, OR BRUSH YOUR TEETH?" OR "IT'S 10 MINUTES TO BEDTIME, YOU CAN EITHER GET YOUR TEETH BRUSHED NOW OR WAIT UNTIL JUST BEFORE BED - BUT YOU NEED TO CHOOSE WHICH" ALSO, SETTING A TIMER - TO LET THEM KNOW IT'S TIMES UP - WORKED FOR US, AN EGG TIMER FROM MY KITCHEN LET HIM FEEL LIKE HE WAS IN CONTROL INSTEAD OF "ME" TELLING HIM IT WAS BEDTIME - THE TIMER DID, AND THE TIMER DIDNT MEAN GO TO BED, WE SET IT FOR 15 MINUTES BEFORE "REAL" BEDTIME W/O TELLING HIM, SO THAT HE'D HAVE TIME TO SETTLE, GET USED TO THE IDEA, AND WE WOULD STILL WIN WITH GETTING HIM IN BED ONTIME WITH THE EXTRA 15 MINUTES WE ALLOWED OURSELVES!

GOOD LUCK.

I have a 7 1/2 year old, who was like that for a looonngg time. Since she was about 4, she is just now growing out of it, sort of,,,knock on wood. Seems like these fits go on 4ever?

We found the best way to deal w/her (after 1/2 hour of fighting, screaming, yelling from bot parties), the best way was to put her in her room and ignore her. Let her get her anger out in there.

Yes, sometimes we had to sit in front of the door and block her from getting out. After about 10 minutes, she'd finally get it that she wasn't about to win.

It's about who's in control, who's boss, you or her?

Warning, it may take an hour to finally get your point across, but in the end, it'll be worth it.

Hope this helps.

PS. We tried everything also, spanking, time out, taking things away, we were at wits end. I was beginning to think there was psy.(sp)wrong w/her. There wasn't.

Good Luck!

Bless your heart C. I must have your twin here at my house because my little girl is the EXACT same way. I have raised 3 boys and never have I had such a hard time as I am with my little girl. She is bossy, sassy, strong willed, independent, loving, caring, and very curiuos and into everything. I don't know what to say except I feel your pain on this issue. She wears me and my teenage sons out everyday.
Everyone tells me this too shall pass and I know but it gets really hard to deal with sometimes. Let me know if you receive any tips/advice that could help both of us. Thanks-T.

C.,

I am sorry for what you are going through with your daughter. I have been blessed with a very spirited 3 year old son, an 11 month old daughter who is showing more signs of it every day, and my own wonderful fiesty personality. First of all, I would recommend to stop spanking. Spirited children in general are very intelligent, intuitive, and have a great sense of what is just and fair. In my own experience, spanking only made me very angry and bitter, even as a young child. Secondly, while there seems to be no rhyme or reason for some behaviors, other times there may be triggers. For example, my son has a number of allergies (food and environmental). When his allergies are acting up, he is tired, or hungry we are generally in for a major battle. We are also both hypoglycemic, so I have to be very careful that we don't go too long without snacks. There is a great forum on www.gentlechristianmothers.com for parents of spirited children. You can access it after you have 25 posts (I believe that's the right number). Also, here is a link to many great resources http://www.nurturingourfamilies.com/spirited/index.html.

Take care,

B. Kelley

I'll just validate what others have said. She want attention. Good attention, bad attention...it doesn't matter. And at that age, they don't have full control of their emotions, so things get out-of-control quickly and they can't handle it.
WALK AWAY.
When my 3 year old son get in one of his moods. I let him know, when he is ready to talk I'll be in the next room (or where ever). ***Do not for any reason, return to her...it will only make it more difficult the next time.
At first it took awhile, but now he usually will settle down and come find me. We will talk about how hard it is to control our feelings, especially when we are angry and sometime we need to have quiet alone time to settle down, before we can talk with mommy or daddy. The next time, I ask him if he needs some time to control himself...I tell him to sit somewhere (not like a time-out) but to calm down, and when he's ready, to let me know and we can talk. Sometimes he has to throw the fit first...so I walk away. Don't reward the bad behavior with your attention. Reward here with your attention when she wants to talk to you about her feelings. Get up earlier in the morning to plan this time in to your before school routine. Try to give her choices. "Do you want to wear this or that?" or "shower or bath?", "bubbles or no bubbles?". Any sometimes you just let them go to school in their pajama top because they want to.
She is trying to be independant, but wants mom there to pay attention. She is feeling alot of emotions and doesn't know how to control them yet. She needs you to teach her how to be independant and how to control her feelings... how you teach her now can affect how she gets through the teen years when these issues come up again. God bless your efforts.

I was having the same problem with my 2yr old. My husband and I started being more firm with him. The spitting and hitting, we threaned to put soap in his mouth if he kept it up. I would make him sit in time out and face a corner for about 5 minutes. I have learned ignoring him when he throws his tantrums, he stops within a few minutes and is nice again.

My 7 year old son is this way, like his father, except my husband has had 36 years to control himself. All emotions run right out with our son. Spanking does not work for him, only makes him more outrageous. Pick your battles, something can slide while others simply can't. Time in a chair/floor works best, making sure her surrondings are safe. Set up a routine to follow, this way she is prepared for her day and nothing comes as a surprise(which usually will offset her mood). Let her help you with anything she can that concerns this new process, she will feel like she developed it and it will go smoother. Good luck, as always with age comes maturity and she will start to settle down.

Hi C.,
I am the mom of a soon to be 4 year old boy and have encountered similar circumstances(except crying over the pretty hair!) I have been trying to give an option in the beginning such as d9 you want bubbles in your bath or do you want to run the water yourself? Options has been a help. Not do you want to eat, but do you want a peanut butter sandwich or a cheeese. Most of the time it works but we still have melt downs. The other day instead of spanking or time out I let him have his temper tantrum(because honestly once he has started there is no stopping it) and then his consequence was we had to pick up and clean for about 45 minutes. I hadn't designated a time just a task and that is how long it took. When he kept asking if it was time to stop I said not until we are done and this is why we are doing this. Next time maybe we can settle down before. I also try and think before I answer a question. Instead of a knee jerk no I say let me think about it for a minute. That has helped me with putting us both in a corner. I also tried to make a space for him that he could go to when he is mad. I put a pillow there and a blanket(he has been wanting to hit when he is mad-the Incredibles) and told him to hit the pillow. Sometimes is works other times not. Hope this helps. GOOD LUCK

C. -

I am a mom of a 3 1/2 year old and if it is any re-assurance, I am going through the same thing!!

We have good days and bad days. But sometimes the bad days I think to myself...who is this child of mine?? She is changing.

I talked to my mom about it and she said that is exactly it. She is changing and it is a stage they go through with trying to be independent.

So far I have tried to let her be as independent as possible. She makes/helps me make her bkfast in the morning. When it is time to get dressed...I give her three different choices to choose from. And bath wise, I bought these pre-soaped washclothes (Huggies Clean Team) and let her wash herself and then I go over quick with a washcloth. Always remember to re-enforce the postive. It makes life a little easier when I pick my battles.

Don't get me wrong. She still gets timeout and even that doesn't work sometimes. Yesterday for example nothing worked except ignoring the fits. (SHE NEEDED A NAP!!!)

Good luck and pray that it is only for a short time and for strength to get through it.

Know that you are not alone. Maybe try talking to other moms in your community. That helps me out sometimes too.

Have a good day!!

B.

I have the same thing with my 31/2 year old. She will be 4 in December and she is all that you describe and some that you don't even go into detail about. As far as the clothes, I say let he pick the night before and tell her that once she has chosen- that is what she is wearing no matter what. For the hair issues, I have it when it is time to wash her hair or brush it with my youngest who is 2 years old. I told the youngest tough, it is getting brushed come hell or high water and for the oldest... that was easy- I told her she either let me wash it and make it nice, clean and neat looking or.. I could take her to Wal-Mart and have it all cut off. It works at times and at others she just looks at me. It is an option if your child understands that you are serious about something... mine however knows I really would hate to cut her hair but she will let it be done or I will have it cut. End of discussion! That is the best advice I can offer you- hope it helps. At least er are not alone out here with kids we sometimes just do not understand.
TheresaT

HI C.!!

I have an 8 year old and when she was that age and would start throwing a fit, I would walk away, just a few steps away, and turn my back, just make sure there is nothing close by that she can hurt herself on/with. I would also put her in her room and tell her when she calmed down, she could come out. My daughter would throw fits for attention and when she wasn't getting her way. Some times time out or spanking works, and sometimes it makes them madder!!Also talking in a calm voice (sometimes easier said than done!!!) sometimes helps. If she sees she can get a rise out of you, she'll keep it up!!!My husband would get down on the floor and throw a fit with her sometimes!!!That did NOT work!! Sure was funny though!! Hope this helps!!!Good Luck!! :O)

Boy, do I understand! My daughter has been strong willed from day one (they told us she was the day she was born) and she still is at 8 years old! What worked well for us was to give her choices so she felt like she had a say. Now, she didn't always like the choices but she had one! We have always let her choose what she wants to wear and how her hair is to be done...if it looks silly, who cares? At least she has an area that is hers to control. For bedtime, we would give her choices such as: you can take your bath at 8pm and have a nighttime story or you can play longer and have your bath at 8:30pm with no nighttime story. Sure, she would get upset when she didn't have a nighttime story, but we would remind her that SHE made that choice. Our daughter has been given choices in everything ... you can stop pulling the dog's ear or you can sit in your room for 5 minutes. We always started off by saying: you have a choice.
If she didn't choose, we would tell her that either she chooses or we will...again, she is making the choice not to choose! It can be challenging as it easier to take stuff away or punish right away but if you stick with it, you both will be happier (we were!).

I have 3 kids and I know what you are going through. when I tell my kids to do something they think I am just trying to boss them around and be mean they dont think they have any choices so what I do is i ask them you can wear your hair in this style or this style and let her have the choice in which way she wants to wear it and then she will feel like a big girl who got her way and made the choice and you will not come out looking like bossy or mean.

I know that parents, especially moms with their daughters need to be very careful what they say around them. If you complain about your hair, or how an outfit looks on you in a negative way, how your body or face looks your daughter will pick up on that and copy you. Not saying that you do this but just incase, I wanted to bring that up.

I lead an all girls group for nearly 5 years and I was surprised at how the girls mirrored their moms. Not sure if there is not enough affirmation about who she is and how she looks. If there is a possiblity she is unhappy with the way she looks.

It would be great if you could sit with her when you are not trying to get through a routine period, get out the door, or anything else that is a rush or must do situation and have a chat. Maybe ask if the two of you can make a lunch date for a tea party and sandwiches. Sit on the floor and talk to her about how she feels when she is having one of her "moments." Or what makes her unhappy about her hair. Just like grown women, we like to have our feelings affirmed too not to be told we are not allowed to think or feel a certain way.

It might help the night before to choose the outfit she will wear the next day, have her model it for you, affirm her beauty and maybe take some time to try new hair styles then she can pick from those too. Soon she could be making her own choices with confidence. Make sure dad is also telling her how beautiful she is to him.

As far as a bath? I know this may sound strange but maybe make it fun with just a tad bit of food coloring or a game she might want to play. Throw goggles in and a snorkle.

She is growing into her new found independance! This is normal, but none-the -less frustrating for you. You are used to being in charge and going through routines at your own pace, she has learned the routines and wants to assert herself. Let her have SOME control in the minor issues and let her make some minor decisions throughout the day. Don't let her have too much control, just little things: Do you want to brush your teeth first or brush your hair. Give her 2 pairs of socks to choose between. But let her know that if she makes a decision that doesn't help us 'get the job done/get through the day,' etc. SHE made that choice. Help her to learn consequences at this stage of her development.
The terrible 2's were nothing compared to the frustrating 4's...

This is my personal option. I would let her know who is the parent and who is the child. Let her know that she is special and she looks nice is everything she wears and that type of thing. She just needs to understand that you are the parent and you need to encourage her and make her feel really special...

We had a little bit of this with our daughter (who is now 7 and is still a bit of a melt down kid at times). We found that there were certain things that triggered her meltdowns and we figured out a way to work around them. When she was fighting me on what to wear. I told her she could pick out her clothes the night before so they would be all ready in the morning. This approach won't work for everything but every little bit helps.
My aunt had a similar problem with my cousin throwing fits in public like the one you describe. They way she cured him... threw the fit herself and showed him how ridiculas he looked when he did it and embarassed the heck out of him. He never threw another big public fit again.
It sounds like she is really trying to assert her own independance. Maybe if she was given control over some small decisions she would be willing to concede on the bigger ones. I agree with the other mother who posted before me on one point. Stand your ground on decisions that are necessary for her health and your peace of mind. It may be hard at first but when she sees that you are not going to budge she will fall in line.

I have learned to pick the battles. Let her pick her pj's or what to wear, if she does not match it is not the end of the world. There are times my 4 year old will come down dressed for the wrong season, I just tell her a better choice would be something that will keep her warmer, cooler...fill in blank for the season. Give her a little control over some of the things that pertain to her. My daughter knows she may pick what she wears, books to read at bed, but I pick the bedtime. For snack I give her two choices, she picks the one she wants. They want to feel like they have some type of control over their lives. IF you think about it, would you always want someone picking out your clothes, how you did your hair. When mine has a temper tantrum, I tell her to sit in her room because I do not want to watch it and when she is done having her fit to come back and hug me. IT does not take her long (the length varies on her attitude)to calm down and she decides when she will make better choices and if she comes back and still has a temper, I send her back to her room.

I recommend Dr. Becky Bailey's book, "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline." She also has a web site at: consciousdiscipline.com. I hope this is helpful for you. Blessings!