Siblings Undermining Discipline

Sit the older two down, without the younger one and, essentially, tell them to butt out. If they do not keep quiet while you are correcting the behavior of the youngest, their phones (or screen time - whatever hits the priority button) getting taken away. Immediately. Then do it.

You need to make yourself very clear with each of your 3 girls. Let me explain what I mean.

Several years ago as a new high school teacher, I once made the mistake of trying to discipline a group of (challenging) students at once/in front of the others. Because these students had been doing what they wanted prior to my class, they knew exactly what to do to break down my classroom management to get what they wanted. The moment I went to take care of one situation, several others in the class would chime in to defend/excuse the student in trouble. It very quickly turned into a situation where it was the class against me...which is not a good thing when you have a roomful of teenagers. Long story short, we got through the situation, punishments were still divvied out, and we moved on. BUT, I learned a few very valuable lessons from this. First of all, you've got to separate the student from the 'herd.' Also, try to discipline with courtesy to the child in question. It's not always possible, but when it is possible, pull that child aside, explain what you observed. Give a POSITIVE statement, follow up with what you expect your child to do, then ask for her compliance in the future. This is actually really fast to do once you've trained yourself. For example, "Hey, Amy, I know that you are a really independent person, and this is very comforting to me, because I know that you will be able to take care of yourself in difficult situations as you become an adult. However, when you just spoke to me like that, I felt very disrespected by your tone of voice. I know that you can speak in a much more respectful tone, because you have shown me that you can do this. In the future, when you disagree with something I say, could we talk about it instead of making disrespectful comments? Is that something you would be willing to try?" Keep it positive, calm, and quick...

Also, you need to communicate SEPARATELY with each of your older girls about your expectations for them. I really liked Patricia's comments about your oldest daughter...she may really respond to being treated like an adult. :)

Ultimately, though, your oldest two need to understand that if they intervene, then they will have consequences, as well. Then follow through on those consequences!

Each of them gets a consequence. What I might do is decide that if they like to gang up, I have toilets to clean and leaves to rake. Here. Divide and conquer THAT chore.

My mother often told me that I needed to butt out, that it was about her and my sister and if I wanted a punishment of my own, would would be forthcoming shortly.

And the other part is, don't let them rile you. You give them A for B. If they have allowance, then instill a curse jar. A quarter per infraction. And if they talk back and use disrespectful language, you also need to look around. Where might the get that idea from? You? Your husband? Grandma? Often there is a source for that behavior that they are imitating. Why do they think it's appropriate? Does it get what they want? Does someone else do it? When my 5 yr old gets snotty, she gets shut down. She can either apologize or whatever is done. I've left stores before. I've sent her from the dinner table. Granted, she has no older sibling that interferes (SD and SS don't undermine us), but if your 9 yr old is in her room and the 11 yr old pipes up, keep them apart.

Girls can be volatile. I suggest you work on this very hard so that the teen years are not so dramatic.

Don't know if your 14 year old is in a place where you can treat her more like an adult and talk to her about discipline, maturity, etc., and have her try to understand WHY the 9 year old needs discipline. I don't mean gang up on the younger child, but having her "get it" and be on your side and understanding dynamics a bit might be helpful.

Now if something changed in the last month with you, where maybe things
are off for some reason - try to see if that's the case. There's no excuse for this behavior, but if there is a REASON it's going on, fixing that might fix the other. Otherwise, it's teen discipline issues.

Is dad on board with you? Here's a link from Dr. Phil - http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/488

it talks about "commando parenting". If they're getting out of hand you strip their rooms and take off the doors. YOU gave them everything they have (unless they have jobs and bought things themselves), so you can take it all away and give it back when they earn it with respect. I don't know if it's gotten this far for you, or if you have the support to do it. But it might slap the 14 year old back to reality.

It's good they look out for each other but wrong that they undermine you when you are legitimately discplining them. They shouldn't be backtalking or cursing you. Find new consequences and different ones for interferring.

There are things you do for them that I would stop doing until they can show you the respect you deserve. You HAVE to feed and clothe them but you don't have to buy their favorite foods, special clothes, gifts, extras. You don't have to let them go to their friends, use the phone, drive them to the store, let them go to the party, use any electronics....you don't have to wash their clothes (they can do that themselves). You get the picture.

Well, there is actually a positive here. The fact that they defend eachother is really a pretty awesome thing, so you can be proud of that. However, perhaps you could choose a different location to discipline so they wouldn't all be involved. It is rather surprising if you are stating consequences, following through with them and they are still doing these things. If they are wavering perhaps the consequences are not completely enforced (?) sorry- or perhaps they aren't strong enough. I've had to check myself in the past also to make sure I wasn't ranting and raving and saying they were not going to go to the North pole if I couldn't actually follow through on it. And I am sure many of us have been in the line between ourselves being in a frenzy or being calm while we state it. (I actually broke my toe kicking it on a cabinet once when we were experiencing the same sort of disrespect. But hence I LEARNED my own lesson. Choose your battles, pick the right time and make sure the other two little sweeties aren't on location at the same time.

Cursing in the house? Do you curse at your children? Is there a father in the house? If so, does dad curse at will?

More info needed to provide the best advice/suggestions.

They have learned the power of numbers, and you fall into the trap.

When mine defended each other, they didn't get into trouble because they were doing exactly what I wanted. Protecting one another. I wouldn't make it clear that I appreciated that they felt protective over their sibling, but parenting was MY job. Some days, I swear that is all I said, over and over again.

Your problem isn't the fact that they defend one another. Your problem is they feel entitled and feel like you are a joke. Why do they feel that way? It's something you're doing/not doing. I know it's not politically correct to say that, but it does start at home.

Mama, tighten your belt, lay down the law and stick to it. So the TV isn't your household currency, what is? Their clothes? Their make-up? Their bedding? Maybe a few nights with no mattresses to sleep on will do it. Maybe having to wear the same 2-3 pieces of clothing over and over again is. You find what it is, and you use it till they improve their behavior.

Hi, N.:

I would suggest you re-visit your parenting style. If your children are ganging up on you, you need to change how you are disciplining your children.

Discipline is one thing, punishment is another.

Do and introductory explanation of what you will be doing and the reason why.

When issues like this come up again, have everyone get in a circle and
ask the offending child these questions:

1. What happened?
2. What were you thinking of at the time?
3. What have you thought about since?
4. Who has been affected by what you have done? In what way?
5. What do you think you need to do to make things right?

Next, ask these questions to each of the other children. Finish asking each set of questions to each child first. Then you answer the questions yourself.

1. What did you think when you realized what had happened?
2. What impact has this incident had on you and others?
3. What has been the hardest thing for you?
4. What do you think needs to happen to make things right?

Now you have the information and how to discipline the children.
www.iirp.edu

Good luck.
D.

I suggest you read Love and Logic by Jim Faye and Foster Cline. They advocate making the consequences fit the behavior. The goal is to teach the child how to behave. Disciplining in this way takes thought and creativity. It has to be done calmly and without frustration and anger.

I also suggest that you add consequences without an audience. When a child is disrespectful in words send them to ther room. Talk with them when all is calm letting them know you will be sending them to their room. The idea is we only stay in the presence of someone who is respectful. When a child .mouths off do not argue or explain. Just a "go to your room." Once they are able to apologize they can come out.

This will take a calm firm demeanor from you over time. Do not try to enforce other consequences. A child must be respectful to be in your presence. Never argue. If a sister steps in she is not respecting your role as parent. They go to their room. If they share a room send the second one to a different room.

It doesn't matter what they do in the room. The idea is to have a cooling off, time to think space, so they can come out and apologize.

Of course, you and other adults in the house, have to be respectful to them.When times are peaceful have cconversations about respect, how to show respect. Ask them why they are angry with you and you them and how you can resolve problems in a respectful way.