Sleep Scheduel

Hi E.-
First, hang in there, you're doing the best that you can. My daughter was a nightmare to get to sleep, but it took A LOT of consistency, about one year's worth actually for her to know that it was bedtime and stop crying. I read the book No Cry Sleep Solution and it helped becuase it just gave a lot of exmamples of what people do and I could pick and choose what might work for us. We then established a fixed routine and didn't stray from it and if we we do, we don't get regular sleep. another issue is food - maybe if you cut out some sugar or stimulating foods, she might sleep better? or maybe you don't even feed her any sugary things? Hang in there!

I just like alot of moms(including you) all went/going through this. It is a part of being a child, and a parent. My idea, and I have done this before(too bad its cold where i live),is this....wake up, breakfast, playtime,snack(healthy), stories,painting, coloring, lunch, and nap all before 12:30pm....lay her down for a nap. If she is not asleep by 2pm, get her up(if she feel asleep do not let her sleep past 2:30)...
Have a snack, and free play(cause she is refreshed) around 3:30pm, go outside for play. Walk, park, anything...stay out for a little over an hour, come in and let her help you with dinner.....both kids...
Let her help set the table...eat dinner and right after dinner get their bath ready....PJ's on, and some tv time. Ask her to help clean up the kitchen with you(kids love to help), then stories and bed no later than 8pm....you will feel refreshed and so will she....and the rest of them.....

Establish a bed time (the same time for both if possible) and stick to it. You don't need to let your daughter cry it out, but you can march her right back into her bedroom, tuck her in, comfort her briefly, and leave and close the door. You may have to do it over and over again every night for a few weeks before it sticks. It you're consistent, it will work. I did this with my oldest, my youngest just fell right into the routine with his older brother. My boys are now 5 and 7 years old and bed time is the easiest part of the day. Good luck and hang in there!

Hi E.,

I have a 6 year old boy and when he was an infant I used a sleep book by Dr. Richard Ferber(head of childhoold sleep at Harvard Medical School) to get him into a regular sleep pattern. Over the years, whenever we have a problem, I pull out that book and do what the doctor suggests for that particular age. It has helped me immensely. A note: my son has ADHD and is not always an easy kid but does respond to these methods. I beleive they work if you follow them and are consistent. You sound like you need to make a big change for your sanity sake. I hope this helps.

I'm a SAHM with a 6 year old sweet boy.

Hi. Oh my goodness you must be exhausted. Don't know if this will help but there is a book called, Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems by Richard Ferber, MD. Obviously you don't have a lot of time to read but it does talk about sleep patterns and how to adjust your child's schedule. Can you try moving yuor child's 4:00 nap back 15 minutes each day? So today have him/her sleep at 3:45, then 3:30 tomorrow etc. The earlier they fall asleep in the afternoon the earlier they would then fall asleep at night. Also do you have anyone you could ask to come over and help you or stay with the kids so you could get sme sleep? Good luck.

Here's another vote for Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems by Richard Ferber. Is there anyway you could take your older son to a grandparents or even a hotel for a couple of days while you work on your daughter's sleep? I know you know that this isn't working for you or the kids, but it is a "break an egg to make an omelet" situation.

The most important think is being reasonable, consistent, and committed. It is going to be harder sleep train a 2 year old than a 6 month old, so be prepared for a bad week, BUT in the long run it will be SO worth it. Just make sure you and your husband are totally onboard with whatever plan you develop, so that one of you doesn't cave and make everything worse.

Good luck!

In order for something to become "routine" it will take a while. Trying to keep her up later into the evening for 2 or 3 days won't necessarily do it. It will take some conditioning. I would try to keep her up a half hour later each day until you reach the desired "bedtime." She may be a BEAR in the morning when she wakes up at her "normal" time but eventually...after a while of consistency...she will sleep later into the morning because she needs it and her body will demand it. Then after all that work, and stress, it will become routine. I have two foster sons (our 4 year anniversary together was this past Christmas) with severe mental retardation and autistic tendencies and this this is the style of "conditioning" I used for EVERYTHING in the beginning. I can honestly say it has worked miracles for me. But it is not something you only do for kids with special needs. I teach 8th grade and use this kind of "conditioning" system to change things (behavior, etc.) often. It takes work ant in the beginning you may not feel like it is worth the grief but in the end I'm sure you will see success. Good Luck!

Hi E.,
I'm not sure what time your kids get up in the morning, but I think bedtime should be about 7:30 or 8:00 if they are up at around 7 or 8 a.m. and that's with a nap planned in.
Try writing out a set schedule for your typical days. Example: Breakfast, play, lunch, naptime or quiet activity, outside play, dinner, bath, snack, bed, etc.
Even if you keep her up all day, I'm betting that by 8 at night, she has already, much earlier, "hit the wall" and is overly tired. No 2 yr old can be on 'go' for 12 hours straight!
Personally, I would establish an afternoon naptime earlier than 4, say, around 1:30 or 2 in the afternoon and make the rule that they both must stay in bed/crib for at least O. hour. They both might just crash. If they don't sleep, at least they have had some down time and bedtime should be at least an hour earlier that night if they do not sleep at naptime. If they do take a nap, STILL enforce that bedtime is at 7:30 or 8:00. Even if they don't SEEM tired/crabby/etc. they ARE.
It will make it easier if you can write a schedule, show them, and stick to it every day.
If the 2 year old conks out at 4, don't let her sleep more than O. hour. Still keep bedtime at the set time. I'm guessing that with all that's going on right now, you're probably glad to see her fall asleep whenever the time so you can get at least a little peace and quiet and get some things done. But don't let it happen. Plan your stuff around their set naptime/quiet time in the afternoon.
It is a HUGE myth that very tired kids will sleep well. They don't! She will sleep better at night if you put her to bed when she does not seem sleepy.
You may have a few rough nights getting her used to the idea that 8:00 means BED but it will pay off in the long run. A kid is NOT going to tell you they are tired and need a nap. They just zonk when incredibly over-tired--like your daughter is doing. Better to get her in a routine so that she doesn't ever get to that point.
I don't know how you are functioning! I have O. son, soon to be 6, and if he is not in bed by 9:00 p.m. at the latest I am throw completely off MY schedule! I need that time in the evenings to myself and to get things accomplished. It must be NUTS to have a 2 and 3 year old running around the house at midnight.

e.

I assume that if you had a freind, family member or baby sitter you would call them and take an hour by yourself. Really there is no shame in asking for that. All mom's needs some time alone.
First it is super important to have a set wake up time, varying it my more than a half hour usually ends up screwing you in the end. I used to let the kids sleep in if there were very tired but it never worked it just threw them off for the rest of the day.
The book i like best is Elizabeth Pantley's NO Cry Sleep solution. She has a website so you can get the gist of it. It is super easy to read if you are already sleep deprived. And I like it because it is gentle for the mom and child.
If you have done everything you can to put her down for an earlier nap,at say 3pm rocking, reading together, shades down, then make sure the activity she is doing is a low key quiet time activity for at least a half hour during the time you want her to nap. THEN if she still falls asleep at 4, I would suggest waking her up from her nap after an hour. Try that for 3 days and see if that makes her sleep enough for an earlier bed time.
It's hard but making sure they have your attention for at least some of the time during the day, and establishing a good, bedtime routine is really important- not just a 5 minute jump in your jammies and i'll read you one quick book. But actual time where your kids have the chance to slow down unwind and make the transistion. Low lights, calm voice,cuddles etc. oh and try not having the tv on after 5 pm. Unless you need it for your sanity, i like the cuddle on the couch suggestion another person had. But the tv can stimulate them and make it harder for them to turn off their minds for sleep.
Hang in there.

Does she get any alone time with you during the day? She may have adopted this schedule in order to get your undivided attention for a time.

Does she have a tv show or movie that she loves? Maybe when she wakes up the 2 of you could cuddle & watch the tv. It doesn't give you alone time, but it is easy to zone out during kids shows. (My son always wakes at 5:30am, I'm pregnant w/number 2 and that is way too early for me, so we watch at least an hour of tv each morning - it lets me slowly get into the day).

Does your son have a nap time? If so, I would try to get her to nap during this time as well. I would bring her into your bed & lay down with her.

Good luck

Hi E.,
Is your 2-year old taking an afternoon nap? I'm thinking that she still needs a 2 hour (or so) nap each afternoon. My 18-month old goes down for a nap around 12:30 each day and sleeps anywhere from 1.5 to 2 hours. Then he goes to bed at 7:30 and sleeps through for 12 hours. Now, I don't know if I lucked out with a good sleeper or if I did "train" him. I can tell you that I have heard that if kids are overtired they will not sleep well at night. Try the earlier afternoon nap. My friend has 2-year old twins, and I know they go down for a nap by 1:00 as well. I hope something helps and that you get some much needed rest.

Hi E.,
I, also, recommend "Health Sleep Habits. Happy Child." by Dr. Weisbluth. Even if you don't read it, the one counterintuitive thing I learned from it is that the more sleep deprived the children are, the harder it is for them to fall asleep and the worse sleep they get. It then becomes a viscious circle. It has to do with the amount of cortisol/hormones the body releases to keep you awake when you're tired. If you think about it, when you are really tired, you feel wound up and its hard to drift off. So a day time nap is essential. If she can nap during the day, she will actually have an easier time falling asleep at night. I think other people have made some really good suggestions on schedules that sound like they would help.

I recommend the sleep solutions book by Dr Ferber. He is absolutely phenomenal and his approach only takes a few days to train your child. He has an answer for every situation, from crying in the crib, to climbing out of it, to getting up from the bed. This book saved my sanity and my marriage. You need your rest, get it today!! Good luck to you.

E.,
My husband and I finally figured out a sleep system for our two kids (4 yrs and 2 yrs) just a month or so ago. I let my kids sleep in to about 10 or sometimes 11 am. My daughter goes to preschool at 12:30pm. Right after dinner bedtime begins. Things start to wind down. I do not put stimulating television on, Sprout's goodnight show. I give them both baths around 8 pm and put their pajamas on. They come in my room for a goodnight story and prayers. They go into their separate bedrooms and actually go to sleep. Their bedtime is 9 pm. I try to have them play outside for at least 30 minutes during the day too, because this gets rid of some of their energy.
They haven't slept with us since Christmas and in the morning I have my alone time or I sleep in too. I hope this helps.