We've been trying to sleep train our son Charlie for over a month and its not working. I am his pacifier and he won't go back to sleep unless he nurses. Some improvements have been made, but i don't really know what to do. Any suggestions would be great. What we've tried:
Letting him cry it out: We let him cry to sleep which doesn't take very long usually or he doesn't cry at all (that is new and big progress from before). Then he is up 3 hours later and we've let him cry that one out and it varies in length, but usually not too long. Then he's up 3 hours after that (or less) and sometimes I feed him because I can't take the idea of him crying again for up to an hour at only 1 or 2am because there are many hours left in the night. If we do let him cry that out it usually takes up to an hour for him to go back to sleep and its heartwrenching, and if that happens he is up in another hour. Then I feed him and he sleeps for 3 more hours. He is six months old and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've gotten more than 4 hours of sleep in a row. I know he's getting enough milk because he doesn't eat that much at night and i give him a bottle before bed to make sure I know how much he is getting. Now he is eating some solids too. Anyway, I've also tried to bring him in the bed with us, but since the beginning he doesn't latch well laying and now he thinks its playtime if I do that. Has anyone had an experience where their child wouldn't sleep train, but eventually sleeps through? I'm not sure what my other options are. Any suggestions would be great. My husband and I are very discouraged.
Thanks!
It's too early - he is just too young. I didn't do the CIO method until my kids were 10 months.
His stomach should be large enough to not need middle of the night feedings, unless it is a growth spurt, so you really need to be positive he is getting enough throughout the day.
If you know he doesn't need food then it is just a matter of trial & error, rubbing back, him holding your hand, aquariums, etc. Good luck.
A.
I feel your pain. My seventh month old started doing something similar when she was six months old. Although, she had been a decent sleeper before that. I did not breastfeed though, and I know that changes things quite a bit.
What I wanted to suggest was the possibility that your son is teething and that is adding to the unrest? That seemed to be what triggered my daughter's issues at night. She followed the same pattern of being up ever y 3 hours or so and there were times when I could only get her to go back to sleep with a bottle. She gave up the 2AM feeding when she was 2 months old, so I knew she didn't really "need" to eat.
What eventually REALLY helped were Hylands homeopathic teething tablets. God bless Hyland, wherever he is! I don't know if this is your son's case, but he should be hitting the whole teething thing soon, so it could be.
Your post seemed to suggest that this is not a new issue, necessarily, but I just wondered if you went from one issue (young baby who needs night time feedings) to a new one (teething-sleeping disruption) without even realizing it, especially since you have tried letting him cry and eventually self-soothe (Good for you, by the way, I know how hard that is to deal with and you sound like you have given it a good go). The fact that you can't settle him without nursing or that he is waking so often just says teething to me..........HTH!
There is no need to feed your 6 month old baby at night as long as he is eating well during the day. My sister in law did that with my nephew and he is still getting up for bottles at night (he's 2yrs old).
My advice is to not make the middle of the night bottle appealing. By that I mean, do 1/2 breast milk and 1/2 water for a few days. Then do 1/4 breast milk and 3/4 water. Keep doing this until all he's geting is water. My pediatrician told me to do this with my 1st son and it worked. Once all he was getting was water, he had no desire to get up and drink.
He may be resistant at 1st since he's used to getting the breast at night. Plus it's so much easier to get the breast instead of preparing a bottle. But tough it out the 1st few times and hopefully you'll break him of that habit quickly.
Hope this helps and you'll be able to sleep soon :-)
I'm one of those aweful and selfish moms that really needed to get her sleep. (I'm a much better mom when I get some sleep.LOL) Sounds to me like he's still hungry. You said you've started him on some solids? When our kids were little we would make 8pm -10pm the busiest and most fun time all day. We'd play and make noise and keep that baby up! Then we'd feed him a nice dinner of solids, (whatever you are feeding him at this point) we were probably using cereal and some fruit of veggie... then we'd give him a bottle/ nurse before bed. My goal was to get him good and sleepy, and a nice full tummy. I'd put him down around 11 and hope to get through until 5 or 6am. My husband was always a lifesaver too, if I did the 11am feeding he'd do the 5am before work.
I'm a big believer in CIO, but I would make sure he's not still hungry. Good luck!
Have you considered giving him a formula bottle at night instead? I know and can relate to this not being the most welcomed of considerations b/c I had such a struggle to breastfeed... but after I started supplementing a bit I realized there were a lot of benefits to it. Not only did my body catch a much needed break, but the formula does have a good balance of nutritions that on any given day you may or may not have in your breast milk. I'm not at all suggesting formula is better than BM, but 1 or 2 feedings of it with 8 or 9 being breastmilk won't hurt. Especially that he's this old now (good job!). Formula, as I'm sure you know, sustains more than BM.
Another suggestion is to thicken his nighttime bottle with rice cereal. It REALLY helps sustain them.
This is of course all advice based on the assumption that this is the main reason he's getting up. If it's because of poor sleep habits, lack of routine, etc. etc. then it' a different approach altogether.
Hope this helps! -N.
Consistancy is the key. I was looking over some of the other response and I have heard such good things about the books mentioned. I fortuately had an easy sleep training experience, I guess it has to do w/ the babies personality. The only situation I had was when my son was 3 1/2 months old he was waking up frequently to eat. (I was nursing as well) Well he was just hungry so @ 4 months when we started cereal and we figuted out the right amount he slept like a charm. So my suggestion is try giving him more cereal for dinner and try the beechnut "good evening" cereal. It's supposed to help them digest it better and make there tummy feel better. Which could be another reason your son is waking up b/c his tummy is having trouble digesting the food? Hope this helps. Lots of Luck
Have you read "Babywise"? It worked really well for my three children when they were younger.
Dear R.;
Lord, Lord ... I dunno what to say, but I'll say it anyway. You didn't say how much Charlie weighs, so, maybe I'll be putting my foot in my mouth here - buttttttt, I'll tell you that I have four healthy grown children at this point - and your email makes me think that you are suffering from sleep depravation by now. I remember those days. It seems so self-evident to me now, but can you tell me why in the world you are not putting a teaspoon or so of rice cereal in the bottle???? I'm guessing that Charlie is a big enough boy and needs that little bit extra to not let the hunger pangs wake him after three hours ... good grief. God bless ya.
Something that worked for us is to have daddy go in for a few nights to quiet him down. Daddy = comfort without nursing. It took a few nights of getting used to. Daddy ended up changing his diaper, so that became their routine for a few days. He would start crying, daddy would go into his room, change his diaper, and hold/rock him until he was calm enough to go back in his crib. Somehow he learned this routine and within a week or two was ok with it. I think by week 3 I tried to go in and change him and he didn't need the breast anymore (so daddy was allowed to sleep again). that broke the mid-night-nursing habit, and eventually he slept through without crying-it-out.
but I'd second a lot of what was already said - your baby's really young so try to lower your expectations, and it could DEFINITELY be teething related (we use the hylands tablets also).
IMO your child is too young to let him cry it out...I think it said your baby was 6 months...
I don't know...I let our daughter cry it out and it is so overrated IMO. We Ferberized her and it worked, but then she developed night terrors (not from Ferberizing). I am not for "crying it out"...if your baby needs you, then he needs you...they grow so fast and in and out of stages...I'd snuggle him with all your might!! Enjoy the cuddle time!
Best wishes - J.
PS - My daughter turned 1 yesterday and still doesn't sleep thru the night every single night, there are nights when she wakes up and I hear her tummy growl...and I give her a bottle...I guess, after 3 kids, I've learned the sleep issue is really what the parents are making it...You can dread getting up, like I did with our first, or you can cherish the mommy/baby time, like I have with our 2nd and 3rd...it's SO much nicer to enjoy it!!
I think this is a bit early to expect him to sleep though the night. My duaghter is 11 months old and still gets up once every other night or so to nurse. She slept through the night for the first time about 2 weeks ago. As he gets older you can expect longer stretches of sleep. At about 7-8 months my daughter started doing two 6 hour stretches of sleep every night. Breast milk digests quickly so your little guy might actually be hungry 1-2 times at night, even if he nurses for just a short while. If you want your little man to start sleeping longer stretchs, make sure you put him to bed early, before he is over tired, it might help prevent some of the night time wakings, but I think for the most part its just his age and you should enjoy this stage of his life because soon he will be a toddler who doesn't want to cuddle up and nurse. They are little for such a short time, cheirsh those midnight cuddles and nursings while you can!
My first thought is that you are trying to make something happen that your child is simply not ready for, stop pushing it, he's too young! Yes it is exhausting, but who said motherhood wasn't, your anxiety about the whole thing is probably making it worse, it is what it is, eventually he will start to sleep a little more and a little more for longer periods of time. Get off this "sleep training" mode, it is absurd to think of "training" this young little infant. You are reading too many mothering magazines. Think too about how you are going about nursing during the day, does he get what he needs when he indicates he wants it, do you try to provide soothing environments when nursing, soft music, low lighting when possible, gentle talking. It may help to speak to a lactation consultant or someone from La Leche League.
Good Luck,
NB
honestly, i hate the word "train" when someone is talking about getting their baby too sleep. you arent "training" him, he is a baby, not a dog!!!
please read your post. your son cries himself to sleep, therefore he isnt trained to go to sleep, he passes out of exhaustion. if he were "trained", wouldnt that mean that he could fall asleep by himself without crying? the whole ferber thing, which im against, is to have the baby cry, then after 5 days the baby goes to sleep all on his own. well thats not the case, your baby is still crying so he obviously isnt "trained" at all. and letting him cry an hour is not condoned by any sleep technique.
answering a babys cry is how a mother earns her baby's trust. when a baby is left to cry, he gets the message that mommy only comes sometimes, therefore the baby cries each and everytime, as he never knows if you will respond.
some children never sleep well, some children wake up to eat at 10 months. im not sure why you are so bent on not nursing him at all. i dont mean to be so short with you, but honestly, letting a baby cry for one hour for a month is horrible. and then you go and finally feed him, giving him horrible mixed messages.
please think about what you wrote- "If we do let him cry that out it usually takes up to an hour for him to go back to sleep and its heartwrenching, and if that happens he is up in another hour." obviously letting him cry is not working.
my daughter is 4months old, i nurse or rock her to sleep around 7:30, and she wakes up 2 times every single night in the first hour. its her routine, and i pick her up and either nurse or rock her and she goes back to sleep. then she sleeps till around 4 or 5, wakes to eat, then goes back till around 7:30. she has been doing this since she was less than 2 months but sometimes woke twice to eat when she was younger. she is put in a cosleeper on top of our bed alone until we go to sleep around 10, so we co sleep but she sleeps by herself as well. we never let her cry it out. im not saying this would work for you, but i am saying what you are doing isnt working, and you dont have to let him cry to get a good nights sleep- although i cant imagine sleeping well with my baby crying for an hour.
and please stop trying to "train" your son. when you become a parent you are suppose to sacrifice to put your children first. let him "train" you instead.
Hey R. - take this with a grain of salt b/c I have a six month old that I haven't had the heart to start sleep training yet (and as such I wake up 6 times a night). Anyway, whatever you do, you have to be consistent. If you're going to let him cry it out - it has to be cold turkey. Once you introduce your breast even once a night it screws it up. He's fussy b/c he doesn't know what to expect. So pick a method you can live with and then stick to -- within a week your baby should be sleep trained. We did this w/ my son, and he was fine after 3 days.
Hi R.,
Keeping in mind that I never did sleep training/CIO, if you have been doing it for a month, it is not working. The method is supposed to work by having them cry a few nights, not on an ongoing basis, and if you're saying that you are getting up and feeding him because you can't deal with the crying, then you aren't being consistent and it's not going to work.
Other options? Feed your baby when he gets up to eat. Not everyone sleep trains. My 2nd baby was breastfed, he did not sleep consistently through the night til a year and a half. Yes, it was hellish, when he was your baby's age, I was still up twice in the night and I was dragging my way through work everyday but it's not unusual for a baby that age to still be nursing at night. Giving him a bottle to know how much he is eating won't help - when he's at the breast, he'll take what it is that he needs, eat til he's full.
If you keep your baby in or by your bed, and just nurse him when he gets up, you'll have much less sleep interruption than in and out of his room, listening to crying, etc
Good luck
Hi R.,
My son is turning 1 next week and is still a terrible sleeper. We have reluctantly let him cry it out for a week 3 separate times (at 6 mos, 8 mos & 9 mos). It has never been 100% successful for him. Now I am reading "The No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley. I have some hope that we will eventually get him to sleep thru the night. I cut out night time nursing at 6 months at the pediatricians advice. If you think that you and your son are ready for that, the book has some helpful advice to gently wean your baby. The author makes it clear that getting your child to sleep will take one of two things: either crying or time. I'm sick of the cry-it-out method, so I'm willing to invest some time in trying to sleep train my son. I haven't finished the book yet, but it seems good so far. If you don't want to let him cry, I would suggest reading it. Best of luck to you. I hope you all get some sleep soon!
The advice you are receiving is a bit one sided and it sounds like you are not totally comfortable letting your child cry. There is much research that infants are not ready to self sooth and your baby is needing you for many reasons during the night.
At six months there is typically a greater need for mom because of so many growing things happening. Especially teeth and they are painful coming in. (I recommend "Childrens" teething drops. My 9 year old daughter says it tastes okay and works fast. She was working on her second set of teeth while her brother cut his first.)
I am a nursing mom and have many nursing mom friends. Typically, we keep our children close in the bed and nurse on demand and find that it is fairly easy to sleep while nursing. Sleep is fragmented but less stressful to fall back to sleep.
One way to look at it is that parenting is a 24/7 job and when children are very small they need you more. Believe me, as a parent of a 9 year old I wonder where the time went. Now she is sleeping over at a friends home almost every other weekend. I'm just saying that things will change so hang in there and find times to nap to catch up on sleep.
Here is a link that explains night time parenting http://www.attachmentparenting.org/principles/night.php
A good book to read is
'Good Nights: The Happy Parents' Guide to the Family Bed (and a Peaceful Night's Sleep!) (Paperback)
by Maria Goodavage (Author), Jay Gordon (Author)
This book will not show you how to MAKE your child sleep but will help you to understand sleep and what infants needs are.
Following is a quote for you. I am sorry that I don't have the reference for you. Also are some links to articles that can help you to understand some development issues and scientific findings and research.
"New research suggests that these techniques can have detrimental physiological effects on the baby by increasing the stress hormone cortisol in the brain, with potential long term effects to emotional regulation, sleep patterns and behavior. An infant is not neurologically or developmentally capable of calming or soothing himself to sleep in a way that is healthy. The part of the brain that helps with self-soothing isn't well developed until the child is two and a half to three years of age. Until that time, a child depends on his parents to help him calm down and learn to regulate his intense feelings."
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...345420,00.html
http://www.nd.edu/%7Ejmckenn1/lab/culturalarticle.html
http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/sleep.html
http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/longterm.html
http://www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/babysleep.html
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I hope you find these resources helpful in finding creative ways to find solutions that work best for you and your family.
L. :)
Hello, R.. I am the first time mother of a 7 month old and we are going through the same thing. My son is teething and his waking up to nurse a couple of times a night is definitely related to that. He slept through the night from 6 weeks to 5 1/2 months. I personally would not do the CIO method, but that's a personal choice. I know at this age you should never let your baby cry for an hour at a time. It sounds like he's just not able to sleep through the night right now, because he's hungry, or teething, or going through a growth spurt. Its very difficult on us moms who need our sleep, but this will pass and before you know it you'll wake up one morning feeling well rested.
Hang in there and good luck.
First off - you are doing great - I am a mother of 2 boys - I never taught my first son how to sleep - what a mistake - he is now 5 and he still comes into our bed! So as many say it is the "Kiss of death" to bring them to your bed so you can sleep - how true. But the good news is that I learned from my experience - my 2nd son who is now 2 1/2 is the best sleeper - you can not really start to train a child to sleep till after 5 months - so don't get discouraged this is the time to do it - I read every book out there on sleep - and the best one I found was "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Marc Weissbluth. It teaches you to learn the sleep signals - for many times a child is over tired and that is why they are not sleeping soundly at night. I would send you my copy however I have already loaned it out. Try getting that book to help. Also, I am not sure what you think is sleeping thru the night is - but 6 or so hours is good - as crazy as that sounds esp a breast fed boy! Look forward to hearing how you are doing :-)
P.S. I am not a good one for the whole "cry it out" thing! an overtired child will not fall asleep - a rested child will - read the book - it will really help!
Hi R., Your baby is still very young. It is not unusual for a baby to wake every 4 hours and need to nurse. If you are anxious and trying to get him to sleep more than he wants to he feels that. A breastfed baby feels every emotion. You just have to follow his lead and wait it out. He will sleep more as time goes on. Yes your life has changed and you can adjust to less sleep. Baby needs comfort. Best wishes, Grandma Mary
R. you got a lot of good advice here and some bad advice. try the website for Dr. Jay Gordon; just google it and you'll find it easily. meanwhile, please don't let a 6 month old cry alone. they can choke.
J.
Hello- I am a mother of 2 boys (3.5 yrs. old and a 9 mo. old)
You are going through a very rough thing... I went through it recently with my 9 month old...
He was sleeping through the night from 8 wks to 6.5 months and suddenly started getting up... Naturally I put him in the bed with me and we'd both get some sleep. Then I realized that he enjoyed this so much he was waking up just to hang out and snuggle...
After a few different tries, here is what worked:
After a doctor's visit (ensuring his health was perfect) he woke at 4am, I let him cry a bit and then I went in, reassured him said its ok, pat his belly, etc. then I left. I did not nurse him, pick him up or anything. Then he cried a bit more, I went in one more time and reassured him... It got him a little crazy when I'd leave but he did settle down. 45 minutes after waking up he was asleep and has not done it since... I have heard him in the night and not gone in and he self-soothes back to sleep. The most you will have to do it is 3-4 nights. Your life will be so much better when you make the plunge. Now my son "knows" that he will not get the reward of snuggling in bed when he cries at night...
Give it a shot. Best of luck! Sleep depervation is torture! You will enjoy your baby much more when you break him of this.
O.k. first, don't let him fall asleep while on the breast anymore. Especially during the day. While nursing, when he starts to fall asleep, stop and wake him. Do whatever you have to to wake him. Tickle him, undress him, use a cool wash cloth, but wake him back up. This will teach him that this is eat time not sleep time. Once he's awake start nursing again. Second, put him in the bed drowsy, but slightly awake. Then every couple days increase the amount that he is awake. Till your putting him in the bed totally awake. This slowly teachs him how to put himself to sleep. Also, you may want to introduce the binky (it won't interfer with your nursing. I nursed both my kids and the binky saved my sore nipples alot). My daughter only uses it during naps and bed time and she sleeps great. Baby's like to suck, it helps them sleep, and this reinforces the Mommy is not a pacifier she is food only. Now when my daughter wakes at night I only give her the binky and she's right back to sleep. This system worked for both my kids and their great sleepers.
As for the night waking thing. I did this with my daughter and it worked great. Every night when she woke I'd give her the bottle with less milk in it. So tonight start with 6 oz. Tomorrow night is 5 oz...and so on. It took about a week but she doesn't need to eat anymore during the night.
I personally think that your dr is NUTS!!!! At 6 months old that baby is waking for something not just because. I had good sleepers but they would go to bed 10 - 11 pm and sleep until about 6 - 7 am at that age. When he wakes up keep everything as dark as possible, change his diaper, nurse him and put him back down. After the 1 hour cry he definately will be hungry shortly there after. Feed him and then you will all get more sleep. That is just my opinion but I still don't let my 21 month old cry for more than 15 minutes. She sleeps through the night and is a great kid! A.
I looked up the biology of infant sleep recently because my 8 month old is still up at night (though occassionally he sleeps all night without waking). In Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution she says "To my surprise, sleep specialists - even the toughest cry-it-out advocates - agree that up to twelve months of age, some children truly are hungry after sleeping for about four hours. The recommend that if your child wakes up hungry, you should promptly respond by feeding her." She also suggests trying a sleep training routine for ten days and evaluating it. If it isn't working, change something, try something new, or really evaulate whether you're being consistent. You don't mention if you have used any books as references - if you want to stick with the CIO method, read Dr. Ferber. If it isn't working (sounds like it isn't) try another method. Or wait a month or two and try again. He's young. If it's any consolation, my 8 month old has started only waking once (or never) at night with absolutely no training, and at 6 months old he was nursing every 2-3 hours. I would suggest nursing when he wakes, keep the room dark, nurse in his room, try to put him back in his bed (at least sometimes) without letting him nurse all the way to sleep. If he's regularly crying for an hour, he's probably hungry - and he can't fall asleep hungry (unless he's exhausted from crying). Maybe aim toward just one night time feeding?
