Trying to Help a Friend and Her Mom - DRAMA....

Jane is doing exactly what she should do - invite everyone and let them come or not - their choice. I would NOT mention this to Janet again. After she's missed a few events, she will either change her tune or she won't, but it's her decision. I would not even try to talk to her about it - it's clear that she's going to be unreasonable and you won't get anywhere. You guys are giving her exactly what she wants - attention. Pay NO attention to it; go about the party as usual and let HER be the one to realize that she's cutting off her own nose to spite her face.

Sounds like Janet is isolating herself in a sulk and thinking people will feel sorry for her.
She can think that if she wants to.

I wouldn't try talking to her at all.
Do you seriously think you can make a dent in her feelings about lesbianism, her daughter and her partner?

1 - Janet's got to WANT to change her attitude (and she doesn't)
2 - She needs to realize she's really mad at her daughter instead of her partner (she doesn't)
3 - Do you have a psychology degree because I don't and I would not feel qualified in the least to approach it without one.

Jane's son can have a great party without Janet being there.

I think you should all let it go and let Janet stay home. Even if you convince her to come, she'll probably be nasty to Jenna at the party and ruin it. I think everyone will have more fun without Janet there.

ETA: per your SWH... My answer stands. You cannot change another persons beliefs or behaviors. Most of us know that. So, IF **I** was asked to get into this type of drama? I would RUN the other way. A real friend wouldn't put me in that situation. Vent to me? Sure. Expect the impossible from me? Nope.

Ultimately it's up to your friend to either:

•Invite O. or the other
Or
•Invite both & let them all decide whether to attend, as they will most likely know all are invited.

If the crabby a$$ grandmother would allow her nasty closed minded nature to spoil her grandsons birthday? Well, that's a statement right there. Speaks volumes.

At 16, the boy is old enough to recognize her nastiness for what it is.

You? IMO, you should stay OUT of ot completely.

I would stay out of this chaotic situation. Why do you feel like you have to intervene? You have good intentions, but you should let them figure out how to best manage their dysfunction.....or not. You are too involved perhaps. I would even change the subject if either of them were to bring up this never ending saga or avoid giving any advice. Why invite yourself to this drama?

I might suggest to my friend that she ask her son how HE feels about it. It is after all HIS day!

Maybe, if it is important to HIM, he could ask granny to 'love him more than she hates her' for this celebration.

Beyond that, I would step away.
But you know/understand the dynamics better than me.

**OH...I surely hope the real names have a bit more variation in terms of syntax!! lol**

Whatever happens, I hope you go...and that this kiddo has a great 16!!

Best!

****ALLITERATION!!! I meant alliteration!! lol****

His best chance at a good party is for Janet to stay away, leave the issue alone, don't push... All this talking to her is giving her exactly what she wants. Whrn she refuses an invite, say " oh that's too bad, we will sure miss you" and do.not.bring.it.up.again. No attention, no payoff, no stress! You guys are all making her problem your problems, let her sit at home and stew in her juices.

If Janet chooses to opt out of her own grandson's birthday party (16th, no less!), then that's on her. I can't see why Jane or Julie or Jenna or you would bend over backwards to get her to come. Don't buy into the drama. Invite her, but when she says "no" simply say "Well, that's too bad. We'll miss seeing you there. Maybe we can save a piece of cake for you." and leave it at that. As you all recognize, SHE'S the one with the problem, SHE'S the one giving the ultimatum, SHE'S the one bringing all the drama.

YOU all can choose not to participate in it. Seriously, she'll spend the entire party sulking and acting the martyr and trying to give you all guilt trips because of her GREAT SACRIFICE being in the same house as "that person" and what a huuuuge favor she's doing you all by showing up. We all know the type. Surely, the birthday boy doesn't want his 16th party to be remembered as "that time Grandma was all dramatic". It's unfair to him.

Let her draw that line in the sand. Let her miss out on family gatherings. Let her be the old grouch. That's HER choice.

Janet has made her decision. You and her daughter have tried to resolve this issue without success. Time to let go as painful as it is. Janet won't be at the party.

I suggest that Janet thinks Jane will cave. This may even be a test. You've done your best. There's no more you can do except support jane and Jenna.

it's possible that once Janet realizes that she has consequences she doesn't like she will be willing to change her decision.

definately do have Jenna at the party.

I'm not sure why it has fallen to you to resolve this situation. I realize you know the family well, but honestly, do you really think there's anything you can say that will make a difference? There are a zillion reasons why Janet is becoming more and more belligerent - she hates lesbians, she feels people blame her (as the mother) for Julie's sexual orientation, she feels Julie would still be straight if not for Jenna, she's a drama queen, she's experiencing mental illness or dementia and losing her grip, and a whole bunch more.

For 10 years, she's been treating Jenna badly. She continues to get a ton of attention like this, because everyone's focusing on her and trying to defuse the situation. So she's the center of attention. Kind of like kids who prefer negative attention to no attention at all, Janet is acting out in order to be the center of attention. And everyone is giving in.

Janet has to be allowed to stay home from family events. She doesn't like the definition of "family", and even if Jenna were not family, she'd still be on the guest list. So Janet wants to control Jane and Julie's guest lists? That's not how it happens.

The answer to Janet's threats should be, "Okay, we'll miss you. Have a nice day at home." End the conversation, hang up the phone, change the subject, help clear the plates, anything. Take away her power.

She chooses to stay away from her grandson's birthday party. If she were there, she'd be dominating the conversation about how she can't believe that horrible Jenna is there, so it's better that Janet stays home. Jane's son has to get used to what everyone else has to get used to - that Janet is intolerant, has anger issues, is depressed or anxious, whatever. He doesn't have to know - he just has to know that Grandma has issues sometimes or doesn't feel well. (And he's 16 - he's not an idiot, he can see what's going on.) So what the son needs is a chance to have a great party surrounded by people who love him enough to get along. If Grandma doesn't want to be a part of that, that's her choice. But the day is about the kid, not her. If she can't see that, I cannot imagine what you could possibly say after 10 years that would make a difference.

The only choice here is for Janet to miss the birthday party, and Halloween and Thanksgiving and Christmas and Chanukah and whatever the family celebrates. Jane and Julie can continue to send her a birthday card or a Christmas gift, a note about the kid's report card, whatever - just as so many adults send letters and photos to grandparents who live far away. They keep the notes short and peppy and full of family joy, how much fun they have, etc. They can keep inviting her or not - although in the short run, I would say NOT. Just stop the drama. Don't inform Janet of events - she doesn't want to come if Jenna is there, and Jenna is coming, period. Jenna is not stopping Janet. Janet is stopping Janet.

I think you should ALL just say to Janet, when she says she's not coming, "Okay, I know how you feel. We'll miss you." And stop there. Just what you do with a toddler having a tantrum - they go to their room to rage in private, but you don' grant their demands. You take away your attention from them, and eventually they figure out their behavior is unacceptable. If they don't figure it out, then at least the day isn't ruined for everyone else.

Jane, Julie and Jenna need to learn that we don't need to go to every fight we're invited to. And if you continue to discuss this with Janet, I think you will probably continue to fuel her rages. I know you want to help. I am quite sure that you cannot.

Janet has every right to feel how she feels and every other party involved has every right to not extend an invitation to her. Perhaps her grandson can spend time with her the day before or the day after to celebrate his birthday or not.

Any way you look at it
NOT YOUR CIRCUS, NOT YOUR MONKEYS.

LOL.

Janet has issues, you can't help with or fix them, and Jane has already done all she needs to do by putting the ball in Jane's court. The only thing to do now is for Jane to not get pulled back in, repeating only "we are not choosing Jenna over you. You are making this decision." as necessary.

This drama should be over, but Jane, Julie and Jenna are still bothering about it and trying to force a change. Tell Jane to STOP trying. There is nothing more to talk about. Let it be.

Sorry couldn't follow - names were too similar lol! Good luck!

OMG why all the "J's", lol

I hate drama and turn away from it

I think that all of you should stop engaging Janet about this, until she has something different to say. There are no other words to be said in response to her, and continuing to discuss it ONLY adds to the drama. These are adults. If Janet insists on behaving like that, she's got that right. It's up to other people to decide if they want to be around it. It really is that simple, and it's pretty dumb to keep going 'round and 'round with her when she only has one thing to say. The people who keep talking about it are the ones egging on the drama. The way to defuse stupid is to stop validating it by engaging it. Only a person who enjoys the drama could/would be pulled into it to "help". Somebody else would insist that they either figure it out for themselves or shut up about it.

RE your SWH: If there's bad behavior that you don't want your children to be exposed to, then you have the option to pack up your children and leave. THAT'S what YOU get to control. Doing anything else only feeds the madness. Either you like the drama or you don't. No matter what your relationship is here, this family matter is NONE of your business.

I got a bit confused but I would stay out of the fray. Those who want to attend the party come. Those who don't want to come stay home. You can't change people. The mom is going to have a sad life.

Not your fight or battle. Not your family. Not your stress. No need for this drama. Life is too short.

the other S.

I just hate it when I put a lot of thought into an answer and spend time writing a response then re-read it and make it better...then click post and it goes away...

I had a really really well thought out perfect response, of course I did...lol.

I think mom has made her choice and is regretting it. Now she can't back down because she thinks everyone would see her as weak. I'd simply invite her but not expect her to show up. If she does it's great but if not that is her choice.

I imagine you're trying to work through this and how you feel about it since you're good friends.

Sometimes asking someone who isn't right there in the family will help us to gain perspective. See it from someone else's point of view.

I think we all come to earth at birth with out own battles to endure and get through. I think mom's might be hate and sister's might be enduring hatred and ridicule and being ostracized.

I hope sister and partner have a good group of friends where they can be themselves and happy in life. That doesn't come along very often for any of us.

janet has a problem, its called"i am angry that i cant control this other person", so, janet does the next best thing, control the people around the person she doesnt like by creating drama..if she doesnt want to be around "that person" ..fine, nobody is gonna force her to, but she has no right to demand everyone else stay away from "that person"..janet might have serious aversion to lesbians, i which case,everyone is better off if janet is simply uninvited wherever "that person" is going to be..its her problem, not yours. K. h.

I don't think that you do anything here. Janet is choosing to be nasty and there is no way to prevent that. However, no one has to entertain this woman's nasty attitude. If Jenna has done nothing to warrant this treatment, I would let Janet stay home by herself. No one wants to listen to this woman spout her mouth off. She is making her own choice. I would be curious as to how Jenna perceives the situation.

Ugh.

I agree with Jennifer T..... No attention...no drama....no payoff for Janet. Happy party for everyone.

I wonder what would happen if the 16 year old told Janet that he wanted her to be there. Sometimes children have a way of cutting through the adult bs. But only if he wanted to, not to use him in that way.

Otherwise I would stay out of it.

The less attention it gets the more likely it will diffuse.

Hope all goes well :-)

How do you handle it? You don't. Not YOUR circus and not YOUR monkeys.

The adults need to grow up. Jane is right to invite her family and their significant others. She should tell her mother "Mom, we are inviting the family. The guests are free to attend or not but that is their choice, not mine. I want everyone here. If YOU choose to miss your grandson's milestone birthday because you don't like someone else that is attending that is YOUR choice".

On the flip side, Jenna could say "I would love to attend and I'll stop by later but Janet is the grandmother and she should be here. I'll be the bigger person this time".

But again, the adults need to be adults and figure it out. Maybe Julie can facilitate that since this is her mom and her partner.

I have to wonder......
If Janet REALLY didn't like the fact that her daughter is gay why was she "ok" with her girlfriend the first 8 years and then getting increasingly hateful the last 2 years? Did something happen between them?
I don't know if there is much you can do. When someone is that seeded (seaded?) in their hatred you may not be able to just talk her down. Possibly suggest to her that she take her grandson out to dinner, just she and him, so that he can have some time with her. Maybe kindly suggest that she doesn't come to the birthday party if she can't behave herself.
L.

It's late and I can't keep all the J names straight, sorry, so I'm confused.

It sounds like someone is unwilling to budge about something, because someone is gay?

It doesn't sound like you can change the situation. If someone is a bigot, call her out on it.

Oh, wait, it's a PITA mom. Forget it. You won't change her. Let her wallow in her misery.

If my mom acted like that to me, I would cut the toxic relationship.

No tantrums, sulking, name calling and you name it would make me change my mind. The mom here s trying to be in control of everyone and it is clear that she hate the fact that one of her daughter's is lesbian.

Shame on her for not loving her children unconditionally and supporting them. She sounds like she is all about me me me and I would tell my mom that this is not HER world.

That's a lot of "Js!." : )

Well, this is a tough one. It's a strange thing, if Jenna has been around for 10 years, why is it that Janet has become so openly hostile in the past two years? Did something happen you may not be aware of? Or, has her dislike and resentment been brewing for all those years, and she finally just started letting it all out?

Either way, not sure if that matters, but it's something that I was wondering when I read your question.

You might say something like: "Janet, I know you love your girls and your family and want the best for them. I'm not sure what's going on with you and your feelings about Jenna, but it seems to me that the most important thing right now is Jason and his special birthday. He'll turn 16 only once. Don't you want to be part of that and help make the day special for him? It would be really sad, when he looks back on the special times in his life, if you weren't there for him and this milestone celebration."

If she balks and says she wants to be there but Jane is putting her in a position of avoiding the party by inviting Jenna (or J. by bringing Jenna), then say something like: "This party isn't about Jane or J. or Jenna, and it isn't about you. It's about Jason and making the day special for him. I'm not sure how you could miss such an important event in your grandson's life. Is that how you really want to be remembered?"

If she persists and you really feel you can be that direct with her, then you might go for it: "I get that you don't like Jenna. But Janet, it's really none of your business who your children chose to love. It's just not anything you can control, and if you persist in trying to make your children choose, you'll end up
losing them. Do you really want to alienate your own children trying to control something you can't really control? No one can make you like Jenna, but the reality is she is your daughter's partner. Your daughter loves her, and for that reason alone, you should be respectful and not create conflict around this----no matter what your personal feelings are."

Those are just some things that come to mind that I might say if someone I knew was acting like this. The sad thing is, WW, after all this time, if she is that hostile, I don't know if any words will get through to her. There are just some people who will cut off their nose to spite their face, and she may be one of them. It's kind of you to try. Don't be surprised if this backfires and she turns on you, though. I hope that doesn't happen, but angry, hostile, resentful people aren't always open to exploration and dialogue about their prejudices.

Good luck. I hope something you say sparks something in her that gets her to think about the situation in a different light. She may not ever like Jenna, but at least there might be a little more peace within the family.

J. F. (yet another J)!

Does Janet live in a separate house, not in the same house as Jane or Julie/Jenna?

If she does, let her be. Tell her "you're missing out on the joy of family, and you'll be missed. Sorry that your attitude will keep you from your family." Don't ask questions. Simply state the truth.

Then enjoy the party and don't let it turn into a major symposium on Janet and her drama. Turn any mention of her name off immediately with a change of subject. And you might mention that plan beforehand to all the other J names so the kid's birthday isn't spoiled.

If any of them live together, then I guess maybe everyone needs to confront Janet with kindness, calmly, and figure out a way to get along.

This will be Janet's loss. Sounds like the kid who's turning 16 will have lots of loving family and friends to celebrate with.

I don't understand it either. I guess that is because if you don't harbor and feed the hatred and resentment in your heart, and you're a tolerant and kind person, you will never understand how someone else can binge on bitterness and prejudice.

People can't choose their family. They can't change people and their core beliefs either. The mom has a right to her own feelings whether or not you or the others agree or understand. I wouldn't choose either family members over the other I would just include everyone and let them make their own choices. The son is old enough to understand the situation and hopefully everyone will set a good example for him on how to try get along with others when they don't agree and not cause more drama =)

yuck. what a horrible position to be in.

I think you may have received more helpful answers if you had stated from the beginning that you were asked for help and advice.

It's a shame that Janet is behaving this way. If my friend asked me to help and for advice, I would tell her that she needs to cut the apron strings, tell her mom about the event, if she asks who is coming, tell her the truth, family and friends.

If she pitches a fit about being left out, tell her she's not being left out and she is making the decision not to come. She is welcome and invited but her negativity or hate will not be tolerated.

And yeah...too many "J" names!! LOL!