Trying to Protect 15 Year Old Boy from More Heartbreak.

I think in a case like this, you have to be firm with your son and let him know that no matter what his father says or even what he wants to do, the courts have already ruled, on good evidence, that this is not an option for him. And that you understand that he wants to spare his dad's feeling but let him know that his father also knows that this is not an option and that by even bringing it up, his father is being deliberately hurtful to him (your son) and is defying a court order that already said the deal is done.

And I would contact your attorney and see if this behavior can be addressed, perhaps in a firmly-worded warning letter that if the father does not stop, he will be dragged back to court and censured. Sure there's free speech, but there's also harassment and manipulation. A friend whose sons are now grown had to go down that road with her d-bag ex-husband, who was constantly badgering their children about living arrangements that he knew couldn't and wouldn't be changed. What he is saying to your son is manipulative and borders on abusive. Stand your ground - this is not a situation where a teenager can make a reasonable choice between two equally qualified parents, it's one where you are the custodial parent for a reason and there is no choice for him to make.

This is horrible, T..

I would have a hard conversation with him, starting with "You are not responsible for either my or your father's happiness. That's up to us to help ourselves be happy. I'm concerned that maybe you are so needing his love that you think that making him happy will make him love you better, and that will make him a better person. Only your dad can choose to change his life and to stop physically hurting people. As your mom, while you are in my care, I do not feel this is a safe risk to let you live with him."

I would also get him some counseling, because he's very confused, T.. He feels emotionally obligated to 'rescue' his dad from his father's own self-perception, which he did a fine job of creating himself. Taking the ability to make the decision away from your son will take a load off of him, emotionally. If his father continues to press, I would make things very, very clear that he would have to do family counseling with all the kids (whichever ones wanted to attend) for at least X amount of time before you would even entertain the idea. I'd also explain to your son that the courts do usually offer some sort of joint custody arrangement in typical situations where both parents are relatively safe and healthy, and the fact that a judge is honoring your petition for full custody says a lot.

I think your ex-husband is being a manipulative bastard, but there's not much you can say or do to make your son see the light. He's likely trying to protect a part of his own self-- that his dad isn't 'so' bad-- and this sounds very, very sad for him.

It sounds like your son doesn't really want to go. Tell your son that he is not the caretaker of his father's feelings, and he is not obligated to live with him. Tell your son he is allowed to remain in his own home and stay at his own school with his friends; he doesn't have to give all that up to be dad's buddy.

If your son gets to the point (and maturity) where he really wants to live with his dad, for his own reasons, then at that point you might as well let him. But you need to give him the strength to be able to tell his dad "no," since that is what he apparently wants to do.

Tell your son that his father needs to spend a few years "earning" his son's devotion, and that just attending sports events a few times is not an indication of a permanent change.

Empower your son to say no.

The courts say you have custody until your son is a certain age (18?).
When he's 18 he can do as he pleases.
Your son needs to forget his Dad's feelings for the time being.
You are actively raising him through thick and through thin and he should worry a bit about your feelings and show a bit of gratitude.
It's possible he might have to learn the hard way but he can go do that when he's 18.

What your son wants is irrelevant. The court order stands unless there is something I'm not understanding.

Your son can't just decide to go live with his father. You would have to consent to it.

I would have a long conversation with your son (privately) and tell him the reasons that you are not going to allow this to happen. This is not open for discussion, but he is free to express his thoughts.

1. Father has a history of violence towards his children (verbal and physical)
2. Father is not a good role model with respect to honest and upfront behavior
3. Father cannot "pick and choose" when he would like to parent.
4. The judge will not allow it. I would tell him why you have full custody- no drawn-out details, but explain WHY the judge awarded you full custody.

When your son turns 18, he can do as he pleases. Until then, YOU are the parent and YOU are making this decision on his behalf.

If he wants to spend a month with his father this summer, then let him do so. I'm betting that by the end of that long visit, he'll be ready to come home to stability, love and parenting.

he doesnt have to worry about hurting his dads feelings. he can say I would love to but the courts say I cant and leave it at that.

Have you talked to your lawyer about the situation? Can you physically prevent him from going there?

Even if you could (which seems doubtful to me given his age) I'm not sure it's the best idea. If it were my son I would tell him that I cannot, in good conscience, give him my blessing on such a move but that I'm not going to physically prevent a young man from going either.

Again, check the legalities and make sure you understand the ramifications of every option. But putting that aside for a moment maybe he will get over there (Dad's) and figure it out for himself pretty quickly.

I would constantly reiterate my love, respect and support for him no matter what he does. That does not mean being a door mat however. If he wants to be under your protection he needs to follow your guidance to a certain extent.

Good luck.

ETA: What is PMFA? Again, check with your lawyer on how to handle his wish to go over there.

You can tell your that you think it is sweet that he wants to not hurt his dad's feelings but he can't make life decisions based on that. Tell your son that the court has already ruled on this and it is a no go. If he wants to see his dad more, then allow that (chances are, he won't step up). You should talk to your ex and remind him that the courts have ruled on this and to stop pressuring your son.

Your son is missing his father - not necessarily the person his father IS, but certainly the person your son wishes his father had been. He feels rejected by his father, so having his father "want" him now feels kind of nice and reassuring.

Sounds like his father has no clue what kids need - consistency, a feeling of belonging, and so on. The wedding, the trip and the long absences tell a pretty sad story. And now your ex has put your son in the role of being the messenger. I'm not sure if the "come live with me" invitation is about reducing child support, or about making up for being a bad dad, or about control.

I agree that children should not have the job of making their parents happy. You need to make a decision that is best for your son, but which doesn't drive your son toward his father any further. Can you agree on an extended visit during the summer? Unless you think he wouldn't be safe there, it might be very telling for your son to be in his father's house for, say, 2 or 3 weeks, and then find that it's not so rosy, Dad is irrational and angry, is off at work and the teen is left home with the stepmother and her children, and so on. I think you can tell your son that the courts decided this based on all the evidence and in an objective manner, but that you also don't want to keep him from his father, so how about a visit to meet those father-son needs. My guess is your ex cannot hold it together for a long period of time, and that will be quite telling for your son to be in that environment. It's important that you not say, "Okay, go for a long visit and then we'll see if you still want to live with Dad." That sets it up that a) you don't have a final say and b) Dad can manipulate the son enough to make things happen.

People can change, but it doesn't sound like your ex has been proven to be a different person. If he were, he would have discussed this with YOU and not made the son the messenger. I'd highlight that to your son, and make your decision about what's best for him, not just that you are protecting him from heartache. It's also not up to your ex - his wife and her kids are affected too. Does your ex have a room for his son (and his other kids)? How well does he integrate his "new" family with his "old" family? Who has to adjust to whom?

I think it's awful that your ex twisted your daughter's arm like that. I think your son should spend the next year seeing how dedicated his father is to all 3 kids' activities (games, graduations, proms, parent-teacher conferences, and everything else). THAT'S what it means to be a parent - not just be Mr. Weekend Good Time. But I think you MUST acknowledge your son's desire to have a father, and hold back from saying too much of what you believe his father's shortcomings to be. You don't want your son making his decision based on taking care of you or his siblings either. That's just more of the manipulation or undue influence he's already feeling. At his age, he's trying to be a man and subjugate his own feelings, to do for someone else. Try to help him through that in as healthy a way as possible.

I sympathize - kids in our family went through a lot of guilt trying to take care of the needy parent who manipulated, and it affected their whole life and the choices they made in spouses. Not a good situation. Good luck!

I highly suggest your son speak with a counselor or therapist about his honest feelings.
Being a child of divorce , there is a tremendous amount of stress and guilt.

I felt guilty for being happy that my parents divorced.. I felt guilty because I felt like I did not love my father as much as my mother. I felt guilty because I dreaded my time with my father.. But I in no way wanted to hurt him..

I also knew not to put my mom in the middle of anything, because my dad would blame her, and I wanted to protect her..

Please please find help for your son..

Your son is probably very confused. Its possible that he actually wants to live with Dad but does not want to hurt YOUR feelings so he does not want to come right out and say it to you. But, given Dads background, it does not sound like a healthy environment for any child, let alone a 15 year old boy. You have full custody and it needs to stay that way. If it were me, I think I would tell my son that I appreciate and understand that he wants/needs to spend more time getting to know his Dad, and tell him that I will help him set up additional time for them to be together. But that I will not allow him to go live with Dad. It also does take some of the pressure off your son - I think he would feel guilt no matter what decision he makes, and at least this takes some of that off his shoulders, whether he realizes it or not.

Take it out of your sons hands so he does not have to feel guilt. Tell him point blank that the courts gave you custody for a reason and that will not change, then tell your ex the same. If he keeps saying stuff to your son after tell your son to respond with a simple "its not my choice dad, talk to mom", and that if his dad keeps talking to just repeat that sentence over and over. (or what ever he feels comfortable saying as a response).

My 13 year old son's dad wanted him to go live with he and his second wife and baby. They don't have a bad relationship- my ex is not physically abusive- but he is unreliable and although my son really didn't want to live with him, the constant badgering made him really stressed for a while.
I opted to take him to a therapist. I don't always think that therapy is the answer, but in this case it was very helpful for my son to talk to someone NOT INVOLVED in any way with the situation. I don't even know exactly what the therapist told him- but just talking and getting his side of things out to someone really helped my son to feel better about the situation and more in control. Maybe this would be the case with your son as well? Also, his dad had to pay for half of the co-pays! I hope your son listens to you- it is so difficult to know how to handle these things, but I think your gut instinct to keep your son away from living with his dad even for a short time is right. You have custody and you just need to be the mom right now and make it clear that he can see his dad, but not move in. Good luck!!!

I actually know the feeling. My oldest & middle child chose to go stay with their dad and look what it brought them, more sadness and they gets treated like leftovers. I let them decide and prayed his father had changed his ways but he never will. My kid tells me dads gfs change him to be a jerk butthole. No honey, he was already at that point. These type men never grow up or act responsible and then lie and bs their ways their the courts and justice systems. It takes years to get whats owed to you or for them to serve time. He owes a ton in arrearages and hasn't paid the IRS in years and wants to claim the kids bc he knows I can't by receiving SSI. They came into money and spent it all in less than a month. Instead of being responsible. Thats when my kids seen dollar signs and decided to take off, dad has 3 vehicles, 2 4-wheelers, a huge camper, a newer and bigger house, one with a pool. Yet he is still constantly in and outta courts being stupid. Had a kid they don't really take care and leave on everyone else and now fixing to have another they can't afford. Suddenly they get government assistance and I lose mine. WTH? Then dad harrasses the son about buying me groceries my son never bought me. I went to Manna and the food banks just to make ends meet for my family. Luckily I only have one little one now. And her dad is just as bad. What is a person to do in a situation where they just don't have money for lawyers and court battles? We suffer, long and hard and usually in silence. Thats what. Why do the evil continue to get ahead and others suffer?

I agree with AKMom - take it out of your son's hands. He doesn't have to hurt his dad's feelings. He can tell dad that he wants to go, but mom won't let him. You have a court order on your side. Your son needs to understand that he really doesn't have a choice because of the court order. If need be, show him the order!