Whining Update

My son is also 4th grade, has anxiety and sensory issues. He is in the process of an IEP. Due to this I an in constant contact with his teachers and principal.
I would not say a word about this comment. It sounds along the lines of something I would say myself (I might ask him to use the tools he has learned through counseling-but same effect).
Also, I'm a coach, and might say something to this effect (I would tell them to shake it off).
I don't think the pe teacher did anything wrong. But, if you're son has issues you should have a plan in place with the school so there is a uniform approach.

Go to the principal because your child was told not to whine? Dramatic much?

Have you asked the teacher about the "incident" or are you basing all of your info on the report from your child? Your SWH says your son was not whining... Were you there? Did you see what happened?

I am a regular substitute teacher, 14yrs. Yes, we will tell children "no whining and to use your voice". It starts in Kindergarten so by 4th grade, students know that whining will get them no where.

You do not have the entire story because you have not spoken with the other teachers that were there and heard/saw what happened. You are just happy to bring down a sub who you believe wronged your son. Well, as a sub, we don't know all the students personally and if someone is hyper sensitive or has some special needs we typically get that info from the regular teachers. We also get bombarded with children being tattle tales on each other in order to get attention from us. We are very observant and pick up quickly when we are being used.

I know the majority of subs at our elementary school are all long term good subs. However, if a teacher has to call in a sub from the system, it is a lotto... you never know what you will get. I had a sub come to work with me and she couldn't speak English. I asked the principal, how am I supposed to help her with her classroom when she can't speak or understand English? I don't know how this person got in the system but I do know she was never at our school again.

I am sorry you are so upset at the JERK sub. Maybe your son needs to take some martial arts classes which can help him physically and mentally with his self esteem. Empower him... don't run to the school and principal every time he perceives that someone is being mean to him. TEACH him to communicate.

Also, look in the mirror at how you act. Your behavior is modeled for your son. Your SWH says a lot about you for calling ladies here horrible just for honestly answering your question. We don't know you or your son, we just answered to try to give you perspective on the situation. Believe me, there will be a lot more battles at school before your child graduates. Tread carefully and pick your battles.

We are horrible? Why? Because we are taking time to answer your question based on what you first posted?

We do not know your son. We are like the Sub PE coach, we do not know about your son or anyone elses child in that PE class.

Do you think that every person that comes across your child is going to know he has special needs?

This is a situation that is going to happen because people cannot look at your son and know his history.

Today's events were not meant to upset your son. This sub is keeping order and treating your son just like he would treat ANY other student. That is what we all hope for.

Because your child has differences, you will need to be prepared to understand when the average response may upset or confuse your son.

And yes, you will be the best person to guide him through this. You can explain this PE teacher is not the regular teacher so he did not understand how your son did a great job of telling the other student to stop. It was the other boy that was not behaving properly.

Now your son needs to remember and practice how to use his voice to ask for assistance and not sound like he is is whining.

Our daughter has always been a very shy and introvert child. I understand that your son is on the extreme spectrum, but what we learned with our child was to empower her.

We also were able t speak with her about her perceptions VS other peoples perceptions and many times, she was being WAY too sensitive or assuming a lot about people based on HER own fears and anxieties.
Your son is still young. Through therapy and practice he will learn some coping skills and some communication skills. He cannot be totally protected at all times, because he does need to learn to live in this society.

She is now an adult and still struggles with this, but she works at not freaking out in new situations, with new people.
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Why is it not appropriate to ask your child not to whine?

Do you allow him to whine? At home? With other people? What do you say to him when he is whining?

There is a different way to speak up for ourselves than whining. It is to do as your son did and tell the person to stop. If the person continues to hit then the student goes to speak to the adult "using our regular voice" by saying "I have already asked Timmy to stop hitting me, but he is not listening to my words.?

Usually the response at school will be, "Just do not play with him any more." Or the teacher will tell the child, "Move to this other group for the rest of this class period."

Schools are a "NO Whining Zone" They are taught this in kindergarten.

Please don't ever go to the principal without talking to the teacher first. I would be furious if someone complained to my boss without even talking to me about the situation and at least listening to what I had to say.

I would have to say that even in 1st grade it is normal to tell some kids to stop whining. How many times a day do you think a PE teacher hears the phase, "Mrs. Jones! Bobby hit me!" This doesn't mean your son is a whiner, but I'm sure PE teachers get more than their fair share of complainers.

Talk to her. Ask her what happened. If after hearing what she has to say you still feel it wasn't handled well, discuss that with her. Is she aware of your son's struggles with anxiety? Talk to her.

If after talking to her you still feel like you haven't been heard, talk to the principal. But going directly to the principal without talking to her would be very disrespectful.

Um, I've read through all the responses and no one was horrible to you. You posted a situation, they took the time to advise you based on the information you provided. If you left information out, then you can hardly call them horrible for asking additional questions or answering based on your limited description. I'm so tired of people asking for free advice and then acting badly when it isn't the advice they want to hear. Good grief, no one made you come here.

For the record, I'd be mad, too. My daughter doesn't stand up for herself. But then I wouldn't be "whining" about the answers I got on a website - I'd be talking to the teacher and/or the principal and modeling how to stand up for myself maturely.

First off, no one on here was horrible to you. I thought the answers were honest and insightful. I'm not sure what you are looking for answer wise.

Second, you haven't talked with the teacher. I understand it was a sub but you need to talk to the teacher as well. If this sub was that way, the school might not want to get that person again.

Does your son have an IEP? What is in place at school for his issues?

Until you are able to talk to the teacher or sub, I would hold off going to the principal. To me the principal is the last stop not the first stop.

Did the teacher actually confirm that she said "stop whining" or is this just what your son told you?
Until you speak to the teacher you don't know exactly what happened because you weren't there.
As I tell my own children, get BOTH sides of the story before you decide how to react/proceed.

If my nieces are whining in class, it is certainly appropriate for the teacher to tell them to stop and to use a regular, normal voice--and the teacher has my permission. How else is the teacher to stop the whining? I expect the girls to act appropriately in school, and for the teachers to discipline.

I would leave this alone, and not say anything right now. Continue working with your son on standing up for himself. Is it possible that your son, given his sensory issues, overreacted, and wasn't hit, perceived the incident wrong? I don't know, but it possible. If it happens again, then talk to the PE teacher not the principal. Keep working with your son and keep helping him stand up for himself.

Is it possible that your son was whining when he went to the teacher? It sounds like the teacher may have been asking your son to speak in a non-whining voice, as opposed to telling your son not to complain about the other student. If a child is whining at school it is the teachers job to tell the child to stop whining, just as it is a parents job to tell kids not to whine at home. Yes, allowances are sometimes made for children with special needs, but even special needs students are told to use their normal voices and not to whine.

You mentioned in the "so what happened" section that the teacher in question was a substitute. I think it is possible that the substitute meant the "stop whining" comment in a similar fashion to "shrug it off", possibly not realizing that your son was actually hurt. The substitute probably didn't realize that your son was acting out of character by saying something.

With that said, I think it is important for the school to know what happened. Just make sure you are calm when you explain the situation. Does your son receive any O/T through the school or have any contact with guidance for anxiety? If he is receiving any sort of services, I would start with that person and come up with a plan for making sure your son doesn't become more anxious about speaking up for himself. It also wouldn't hurt to tell his teacher so he/she knows that this did impact your son greatly.

I have a child with severe anxiety, so I understand how devastating this can be.

I would probably approach this situation in a non confrontational manner (e.g not trying to get a teacher in trouble especially if it isn't his normal teacher) and ask for help in reducing your child's anxiety about speaking up for himself going forward and returning to gym class again.

Good luck.

I didn't teach my kid to tell someone if she was hit. I taught her to hit back and hit hard.

Has the PE teacher been made aware that your child has those bad anxiety issues and sensory issues?

If not, he or she should have been told this at the very start of the school year.

So tell the PE teacher now. If you are concerned that speaking up will mean the PE teacher will single out your son somehow or treat him worse, then call the school counselor and say that you want to meet ASAP with the teacher but with the counselor also present. It helps to have another adult there.

But...is the counselor aware of the anxiety and sensory issues?

You need to be sure that every teacher and specialist (art teacher, music teacher, aides, etc.) that works with your son knows. If your son's issues don't warrant any special education plan etc., you still need to let these adults know. It's not a big deal -- just prepare something written for them all that says he is seeing a doctor for anxiety and sensory issues (If he is seeing a doctor -- is he?) and you want his teachers to be aware of that, so if he seems to overreact to something like a touch from another child, or certain situations (you know what the examples might be), they will better understand what is going on with him.

I really hope you've done all that already, weeks ago when school began or even before school started, and the PE teacher just somehow didn't get the memo. I have to say, it does not sound strange to me for a teacher, especially a PE teacher whose class involves a lot of physical contact between kids that some kids just don't like, to tell a kid not to come to him or her with complaints like that. But if the PE teacher is made aware clearly and firmly that your son is not "whining" but genuinely distressed by things like whacks during tag -- then it's on the teacher, after this is made clear.

I know you're mad and I do understand why, but if your son has anxiety and sensory issues this IS going to come up again and again this year and in the future. Fight it by informing teachers well about what to expect from him and how best to work with him when he's anxious. The sensory stuff may come up more in PE (if he has issues with touch), music (if sound sets him off) or other places where things are busy or loud or get rough (the playground, even the cafeteria). The anxiety part is also important -- teachers need to know what signs to watch for that signal he's getting out of control with anxiety. My friend's kid would get so anxious she would crawl under tables and curl up -- and this was in third and fourth grades. Had her parents not warned teachers that this was something she was in treatment for, the teachers likely would have pulled her out, disciplined her etc. and made things worse.

Please work up a plan with the school counselor on how to inform all teachers, not just the PE teacher, and what they do or don't need to know about your son!

I think I just ready a key word in your so what happened: "SUBSTITUTE" teacher.

I am a substitute teacher, and by default you do not know the kids personalities in each class. There are always certain behaviors you see all day long and one in elementary school is the class "tattle-tell" and the fact is the just "tell" on each other all day long with a sub. I never call them that and certainly never use that term or the word whiner. But as a substitute there are subtleties you miss.

Just be glad he/she sent him to the nurse. Some subs I know won't send kids to the nurse because that is kids favorite thing to try is to see how many times we can go to the nurse while we have a sub. (I usually err on the side of caution and send them...but I digress).

If it was a sub, you can complain but they won't do anything...in a big district I have heard really weird stuff subs did and still see them back at the school on other days. (our huge district has an automated computer that calls up subs...and unless you a requested specifically by a teacher it is a lotto system).

My daughter got off the bus in kinder looking like ten miles of bad road. When I touched her forehead she was on fire. Her temp was 103.5 I asked her why she didn't ask to go to the nurse. She said she did but the teacher told her to go sit down. She is a rule follower and a school lover, if she complained about not feeling well, her regular teacher would have known something was really wrong (heck, touching her forehead would have told you that). But it was a sub and so she suffered at least part of the day sick.

So, you can complain if you want to...I think sometimes there are just bad subs out there...

Good luck!!

I guess I'm in the minority because I also think a teacher flippantly saying "stop whining" is rude, and not teaching he child what to do.

The teacher could have said many different phrases that most teachers are familiar with, like "can you solve this problem yourself?" or "what have you done to help the situation?"

Weird that so many people are OK with a teacher saying "Stop whining" as a response to a child coming to him with a problem.

Since it was a sub they aren't going to do much because if your school is like the school's here subs are hard to come by. I would let your son know that you are proud that he stood up for himself and went to someone. I would also tell him that some adults can be as much of a jerk as kids and to not let this incident keep him from going to an adult for help.

In this situation I don't think going to the Principle will help. You don't want to be known as the Mother who complains a lot because your son will then be labeled and no one will be willing to help just to get back at you. I would reinforce that he still lets an adult know if something isn't right but pick your battles too. You don't want to cause more harm than good. Good luck!!

oh, i'm sorry. how frustrating that your son is working on his reticence issues and that his brave step didn't get rewarded.
don't be too hard on the teacher. we all want teachers to be sort of surrogate parents and rarely pause to consider how very difficult it is to be everywhere and see everything. and like us, sometimes they're overwhelmed and just snap off the wrong comment.
i think it's okay to let her know what's happening. even to let her know that her reaction was really counter-productive to your son's progress.
but please don't march in all mamabear, or go the principal (unless you really get the feeling that your son is at risk for worse) or otherwise fly your furious banner. it's okay to be so put out- i would be too- but your son is spending his days at this school and you want to make his path more smooth and navigable, not to rile things up and make it more awkward for him.
'mrs. footinmouth, i want to have a brief discussion about the incident during PE on monday. while i understand that you have to nip whining in the bud, you may be unaware that my son has been working hard to overcome being a victim and we've been encouraging him to use his words and to speak up for himself. when he was unable to get Bluto to stop hitting him, he did what we've taught him to do- he came to you. i'm afraid it will make him take a few steps backwards to be then accused of 'whining.' do you see where i'm coming from? can we think of another way of dealing with it when Bluto whacks my kid?'
enlist her help. treat her like a partner. because she is. save your big guns for bigger battles. if we assume that most teachers are truly there to help our kids, we find more allies and fewer issues.
also, try not to let your son feel as if you're protecting him from 'devastation.' most of these incidents are molehills, and parents are often the ones who turn them into mountains.
ETA- hm. from the SWH it actually sounds as if this little apple didn't fall far from the tree.
khairete
S.

Okay. This is what I did when my son was in 3rd grade. He had a male teacher who didn't like tattle-telling.

One night my son was upset over nothing, and started crying, which at this point, was a little unusual for him. Sitting on his bed, I started trying to figure out what was eating at him. He finally told me that 2 boys at school were hurting him physically. I asked him what happened when he told the teacher and he explained that he was told not to be a tattletell.

I went to school the next day after dismissal and sat in the classroom with my son. It was obvious that I wasn't going anywhere until getting to talk to the teacher. I said to him "My son needs to talk to you." Then I told my son to tell him everything that he had told me the night before and to explain to the teacher how he felt. My son proceeded to do that. And the teacher had to listen because I was right there making sure that he did.

Now, the physicality that was going on was very inappropriate and the teacher had actually been working with these two boys to stop their behavior. He had not realized this was happening again because he had not given my son a chance to tell him. He was very apologetic and told my son exactly what to do if they did it again, including coming to the teacher. He promised that he would listen to my son.

Would this have happened if I hadn't been there making sure of it? I don't know. But this teacher was true to his word. He listened to my son after that.

Now, I want to address the fact that this is a substitute teacher you are talking about. I'm a substitute teacher, too. I sent a child out of the room one time (40 kids in a music class) because he was jumping up and down. He wasn't the only one being unruly, and the choir teacher had told me to do this as a way of getting the kids to settle down at the beginning of class. I was kind - I didn't say anything harsh. It's just that THIS KID was extremely sensitive. I didn't know that. If I'd picked one of the other ones, it would have been okay. But this little guy sat on the floor outside the room and cried. One of the other kids who knew him very well checked on him 1 minute out and came to me and whispered that he was crying. I went out and sat on the floor in the hall and talked to him. That's when I realized my mistake. I asked him for forgiveness. He took a few minutes to pull himself together. We were good friends after that. I did tell the teacher about it.

The reason I tell you this is that some subs don't have good experience handling a classroom. Large groups like music and sports can be especially difficult. If your child's sub didn't know anything about your son, like I didn't know about this boy, then that could be part of it. If she didn't see him get hit, that's another part of it. I agree that a sub should NEVER say "quit whining" to a kid. I've subbed for teachers who said things to children that I disagreed with, and I would never say those things to them. I mean, ouch!!!

For your son's sake, I would go talk to the principal, not the regular PE teacher because the principal hires the substitute. If the principal doesn't know about your son's sensory issues, you need to tell her and you should provide the guidance counselor and all your son's teachers (including the regular PE teacher) with a copy of the OT Evaluation regarding the sensory problems. I'd also discuss your child's efforts to stand up for himself with both the principal and the guidance counselor.

Try not to be mad when you go in. It's best to keep cool so you can think on your feet. And don't be mad at the ladies here. They are asking you questions - maybe the same questions that the principal may ask you. I "get" that they think maybe "quit whining" and "shrug it off" might be the same and they have the right to voice it to you. (I disagree with that premise, by the way...if the PE teachers mean "shrug it off", then I think they should say that. Stop whining means something entirely different to me.) But this doesn't make these ladies horrible. I also think that you should have said it was the sub at the beginning of your post instead of waiting until your SWH. It would have helped.

Good luck~

ETA:
Gym class. Substitute gym teacher. Blecccch.
'Nuf said

Gym class. Blecccch.
'Nuf said.

*Hugs* I would be livid as well. Everytime I hear something like this it makes me all the more grateful that I have the option to homeschool my two. I realize that even teachers have to be only human...but under no circumstances should they be speaking to any child in a way that is rude or hurtful. Sometimes firmness is in order, but NEVER rudeness. She should be acting as an advocate for each and every child in her class. I personally would gently approach the teacher about it.....if she doesn't seem to feel any kind of apology or explanation is necessary...then I would probably take it to the next level. I know that we're all human and we snap...but I wouldn't let something like this slide when this is someone who is currently a significant part of your child's life and someone who is supposed to be leading by example, and that your child should be able to trust - it's sad when a child is in any way made to fear the very ones they should feel they can go to...it shouldn't be that way. Good luck mama!

*I should have thrown in there that I would bet almost anything she didn't mean for those words to slip out the way they did. But maybe making her aware that it did have a significant effect on your child will inspire her to watch her word choices, as she should be. Good luck!

First off, I would be livid as hell too! The teacher did not handle it correctly, substitute or not, that was the wrong thing to say! What if your son was being bullied? Aren't they supposed to intervene when they see bullying? And I am just saying "what if" he was being bullied. I would contact the principle and see if you can have a meeting with him/her and the teacher and voice your concerns! Your child is supposed to stay safe during school. Then I would contact the person in charge of Special Education, if your child has sensory processing disorder maybe an IEP needs to be generated so that everyone is aware that your child is sensitive to certain noises, sounds, lights, touches.....etc... See what they tell you from that point of view. You are the best advocate for your child! And I do agree, sometimes when you ask for advice on this communication board the responses can be very harsh! It's like you are shamed or deemed stupid if you as a question. Just rise above it, those other posters bleed red just like the rest of us.... sometimes I think some of them like to make others feel low and they like to hear themselves talk. IMO. Good luck! :)

Some schools have a zero fighting tolerance.
If someone hits you the policy states you are not to hit back and we're suppose to trust that teachers will intervene and the hitter will be dealt with.
In practice it doesn't really work.
Some teachers will not intervene with what they perceive to be whiny tattle tales.

When informed of the schools policy, I tell our sons teachers MY policy.

If anyone hits/kicks/physically harasses my kid he is to loudly tell them to stop.

If it doesn't stop he tells them a 2nd time to stop.

If it doesn't stop he is to tell the teacher someone is hitting on him and is not stopping and if the teacher does not stop it our son will make it stop.

This gives the teacher a chance to intervene and anything that happens after that is the teachers fault for not stepping in.

If the situation continues past this point I tell our son to take the kid out and we'll sort it out in the principals office.

My kid should not have to be any ones punching bag and he has a right to defend himself.

Our son's a 3rd Don taekwondo blackbelt and he's only ever had to go as far as a 2nd warning (he told this kid "Look, you need to stop. Because if I have to stop you - you are not going to like it.".).
Our son is really a gentle giant but he won't stand for being pushed around.

Subs are not always all that great.
Signing your son up for taekwondo isn't a bad idea.
It helps their confidence and helps them to stand up for themselves.

Ziggy is so right with this. Ask the teacher what happened.