Would You Want to Know If You Had a Mean Kid?

Ann probably knows how her son is.
At in school, the Teacher probably has told Ann of the problems her son causes etc.
So, Ann probably knows... all of this.
We are not a fly on their wall at their home. We don't know how Ann handles him or not, and we are not her family or the boy's parent.

Now, speaking for myself personally: since my kids were about 2 years old... I TAUGHT them, how to speak up, how to handle icky kids, how to DISCERN social interactions etc. So that... when crappy things like this happens, even when I am not with them.... THEN THEY will know how... to handle icky situations or how to handle icky kids.
THAT is another way.... to "problem solve" icky social situations for kids.
THEY too, need to be taught, HOW to handle, things, too. Because, reality is, we are not always with our kids in their midst... and so we as a Mom cannot intervene or navigate or referee, every little social conundrum they have. And I also teach my kids, to tell me if anything icky happens, and/or to tell the Teacher or any supervising adult, who is there. And, they do.

So, that is what I do with my kids.
So beyond just wondering about if you should tell the Mom of an icky kid, that their kid is icky... you ALSO talk with your child, and teach them about how to handle things too, if you are not there with them. It is not about just expecting a child to "handle" EVERY social problem by themselves... but that, IF they are in an icky social situation or being treated not nicely and you are NOT there beside them... then THEY will know how... to navigate themselves, against icky, kids.

For you, you can tell Ann, or not.
Or, you can correct her son when he is with your son... and tell him. When other kids are playing with my kids and they do something untoward... *I* do correct... them. And if I know the parent well... I tell the parent and ALSO about how I corrected the situation, with the kids, including her's and mine.

Per that boy hurting/pinching your son at the play-date... I would have, RIGHT there, corrected that boy. AND made him apologize. And I would have told, the Mom. AND I would have, RIGHT there... told my child to speak up, too. And my kids, do.
And if it did not improve, I would have, ended the play date.... and went home. Or not have ANYMORE play dates, with them.

ALSO, per my own kids, I have always taught them... HOW TO CHOOSE... friends, and what a friend, is.

IF my own kids were mean and icky to others... I would want to know.
But again.. if a child is this icky and mean to others CONSISTENTLY... then I would think, that that child's school and Teacher, would ALSO be having problems with that kid, in school. So the Mom, MUST know. But she is in denial. Or she is embarrassed about her son's behavior. Thus, she acts all "shocked" when her son is like this.

Just because that boy is the "youngest" in the class, it does not mean that all "youngest" kids, in a class, act this way.
Both my kids are late born and one of the youngest in their class, but they are not like this.
Age of a child, has nothing to do with the child's untoward behavior.

Why don't you just stop having play dates with that boy?
And you TEACH your son... about how to choose friends, and how NOT to be treated badly by others.

okay, you know there are issues.....so where are you (physically) on these playdates?

I would be right there in the room with the boys....& I would stop the action before harm was placed on anyone. Get a bell & ring it when you see the action escalating or the setup beginning. By using a bell, not a single mother can say you're yelling at their kid!

When I have aggression with my daycare (or when we have repeat offenses/undesirable trends in behavior), I ring my bell! The kids love it, & they know it's time for a conference to discuss behavior.

It's been about 2 months since I had to use the bell.....it was for extreme loudness - to the point I couldn't hear my phone ring! I do everything in my power to avoid raising my voice, & that bell spoke for me.

Oh, & the kids were just playing....so we discussed using "inside" voices so I could hear better. In the case of aggression against another, by using the bell, you can turn around that bad behavior without angst....& before the harm is done! & usually the moms are on board....meaning you can avoid confrontation/hurt feelings. Good Luck!

I've recently gone through something similar with my 4 year old and another boy in his preschool class. Every play date with this one particular boy leads to my son and younger son getting hit or having everything taken from them by this boy. I can't stand watching how the mom handles it. I've taught my boys to stand up for themselves, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't happy when my son finally whacked him at the last playdate...it was a long time coming. My son will still say that he wants to play with this kid if he's invited over. After seeing how well things go with other kids, I've decided to end this relationship in the best interest of my son's. We also have the problem of running into this person often. I just told the mom that it seems like they have difficulty getting along, and that they see enough of each other at school. I left it at that. I felt bad about it and for her, but I finally decided that ending it was best. My kids aren't perfect, I'm not a perfect parent, but I honestly think that this mom is hurting her kid by not disciplining him! If my kid hits, he gets an immediate time-out. If her kid hits, he gets told to use his words, that's it and her kid just keeps on hitting! I just couldn't stand to be around that type of parenting. Now I'm venting!

It won't be received well, from your experiences with her, you know.

Instead I would channel my energy into making sure my boy knew how to express himself and defend himself. Id re au, if needed.
And I'd make sure he could recognize behavior fitting to a peer he can call a friend.

Good luck!

At five and six years old, kids should *know* the rules. Certainly, when a child is exhibiting the behaviors you describe, their parent should be aware of it and shadowing them, but being safe with our bodies is sort of a requirement for preschool/kindergarten, and her son is aware of this, and just being mean. Kids who have challenges need support, not excuses.

Ann is willing to enjoy your company at the cost of your son's safety, and at no inconvenience to she or her son. Kind of sad. Friends should be looking out for each other's kids, for both their safety and their feelings. Not only to maintain the adult friendship, but it's also an expression of genuine concern for *both* children; that we care enough for our friend's child AND we care enough for our own child to teach them that this behavior you describe is not tolerated.

If you are wanting to protect Ann, you could move the friendship away from playdates and more toward evening/weekend adult-only get togethers. OR you could proffer a more objective "It seems like there are times when the boys really aren't getting along, so let's take a break on the playdates for a while and try it again in a bit."

For what it's worth, I did stop attending a playgroup because of a similar situation, where one child's dangerous behavior was not being addressed. I found that I was able to keep up with the group at large on their nights out together, and made playdates on the side with the moms who were more inclined to be present for, attend to, and guide their kids as needed. Those were a delight. It can be done! Ann may or may not be offended, but at this point, I'm not sure it's your job to be protective of her feelings--she does not seem to be concerned about your son's or yours.

My thoughts on this is that kids are kids and she probably sees your child as something you don't, as well. The other kid probably goes home with a few marks from your son and you just don't know it. If the boys continue to want to play together, why do you have to intervene? Is your son going home with broken bones or visiting an ER after your play date? Pretty soon, you will realize this is all normal boy time together.

My daughter ice skates and soon your son will probably be involved in some sport. She has fallen sometimes due to collisions, if she gets up on her own, she goes back on the ice. She has walked by an ice skate in the air and cut through her pants and scratched her skin with the blade. That doesn't mean we quit ice skating, but we learn to watch out for others. My point here, is simply that kids get hurt all the time and soon they learn how to avoid it or brush it off, one way or another.

What I do is separate my daughter from a friend when things get out of hand and I feel we are about to have a drawn out pout session. If I say something to one child, I say something to both of them and strongly encourage the other parent to do so as well. However, I don't say something for every wrong move they make. They will learn from their mistakes.

We just spent 2 days with my daughter's god-sister and they had a couple of bouts of jealousy. We just gave them some alone time with something else to do. Her god-mother asked at the beginning of the trip if she could stay with them through the weekend after the trip and I mentioned we needed to wait and see if they needed alone time after the trip. She giggled and agreed. At the end of the trip, they both went to their own homes and did need that alone time.

So in our situation, I observe the other child with jealousy and a strong need to have her way, while my child just wants a friend to play with and wants to share nearly everything she has. I could stop there, but of course my cild has faults. She is a know it all, always dictating things as they happen. Both VERY unsavory attitudes.

I suggest you either discontinue this friendship or take a stronger look at your son as well. Perhaps you excuse more than you realize on your son's part. Realize that kids just need shaping to their personalities and we can work on this little by little with every visit. It is okay to call the other child out and gently ask him, did you scratch [child]? If the other parent has any manners she will ask her child to apologize and acknowledge what he has done.

Added after your SWH: You are not the same as this Ann, mom. She doesn't want to believe this about her son. My advice is still the same. However, if you choose to talk to her about it, you'll have to accept that you will be the next one to be bullied. You also may find that your son won't be invited to the playdates anyway. She will marginalize your son as if it's all his fault. Well, then maybe your son will find other friends...

Original:
You're lucky in that you know what will happen if you tell Ann. She sees herself as the wronged party. Don't do it - it won't help in any way at all and will just make things h*** o* you. Perhaps she considers you one of her TWO best friends because no one else will put up with her.

The best thing you can do is stop putting the two kids together. Truthfully, it's hard enough when it's a kid whose mother DEALS with the issue. I have a lot of respect for those moms whose kids are difficult. I appreciate people who give those kids a chance and don't throw the moms away for their kids' infractions. I don't have respect for someone like Ann. She should be shadowing her son and calling him on the carpet for what he's doing. Instead, you have to shadow your son when this kid is there for group playdates (you should shadow him) and deal with the fact that he is being bullied.

I knew a woman years ago who said that she wanted playdates for her son so that she could play Mahjongg upstairs while the kids were in the basement. No one was supervising them. And then they wondered why someone ended up crying, or hurt, or angry, etc. A playdate is not for the mothers to drink coffee and play games or visit. A playdate is for children to learn how to interact with each other, with SUPERVISION. A parent who lets her child hurt other children with impunity is not someone I would allow to be around my son except when there's no getting around it.

I really think you need to pull back on this relationship and let her find out the hard way when he gets into elementary school what happens when her son bullies kids. The teachers won't care about her feelings and neither will the rest of the kids' parents. Let her learn the hard way.

Dawn

I think your letting your kid think its ok what the boy is doing. You need to instruct your kid to go straight to you or the other mom and say so and so pinched me and it hurts my feelings can you please ask him to stop.

Some kids are like oil and water. I wouldn't have play dates with them, and if you do, have it completely supervised by you at all times. I have seen boys like this on so many occasions. There is usually a bully and a victim and they do that every time they get together. Some kids outgrow it, from what I've seen, but I wouldn't put your son in that position at this point.

You already know how she's going to react to you calling her son mean. I can imagine how she'd react to you saying her parenting skills are at best, poor when it comes to her oldest.

My question to you is does your son like this boy? Does he enjoy playing with him even though he gets hurt on occasion? Does your son care that he is left out on playdates? If he doesn't like this kid, stop throwing them together. Don't feel bad if he doesn't want to go. Help him cultivate other friendships.

I would want to know if my child were hurting another child as hard as it may be to hear such information. However, it sounds like Ann has been told this kind of thing about her child and it has fallen on deaf ears. Sometimes the best way to get your message across is to decline these play dates and seek out new friends for awhile.
I would plan to have play dates with your younger children at times when your older son has something else planned or plan for one on one playdates if the boy is nicer when he isn't competing for the attention of others. Actions speak louder than words sometimes. Her problem is never going to go away if she keeps choosing to ignore the problem. A teacher will surely bring up the issue at some point.
HTH,
A.

Ann is there and already knows her son does these things. Another Mom has tried to talk with her and she stayed in denial. I suggest that there is nothing that you can say to her to change her perception of what happened.

I would be more assertive in these situations. I would take over and handle the situation in the manner you feel it should be managed. Don't wait for her to take action.

I would separate the two boys. If your son is injured I would stop the play date and go home or tell Ann that it's time to separate the boys and she should go home. Be polite, even apologize if you need to do so but remain firm. When children begin to get hurt it's time to stop the play.

Or, if you can monitor the play and recognize when the other boy is going to be aggressive, you can intervene and put the boys in separate parts of the room. Prevention would be good.

After you SWH: It sounds like the main problem here is your dislike of his mean attitude. It sounds like your son is handling this well. I suggest that even if you were to say something to his mother, his personality is what it is and she cannot easily change it at this point. You don't think he'll misbehave to the point that a teacher would feel the need to deal with it. I suggest that you work on finding a way to let go of your negative feelings and work on ways of accepting this boy as he is. You cannot change him or his mother.

Address the mom directly. The boys are too young to figure it out, especially if this kid has a mean streak. Be prepared to lose the friendship, as many rose colored glass wearing moms don't appreciate being told the reality about their child. I would definitely want to know if my kid was mean...but that is me. I have alwys taken an honest approach as to who my children are and appreciated any feedback anyone saw that I could not. Good luck.

I really think that this can be a life long problem and maybe your friend is embarrassed, in denial, or just doesn't know what to do. I have seen this kind of behavior in older children and not only is it unnerving it tends to carry on throughout their life with only trouble ahead. I work in a classroom of 5th graders and there is a child in the class that acts like this.......extremely sneaky, says nasty things to other children (sometimes under is breath), blindsides kids, and rolls his eyes if an adult tries to correct his inappropriate behavior..........YIKES. If the mom is unapproachable then maybe it is time to try to put some distance between your son and this boy. I say it might be for his safety. Invite the "best friend" for a play date but probably not at your home.........the other kid just might pop over. Also, get your kid into sports where he can meet other children that that act more appropriately

Penny Amic CEO/Clinical Director
Special Beginnings, Inc.
An Early Intervention Network

Just simply tell her you're stopping the playdates for the time being because your son doesn't not want to continue being hurt by her son. Make it about your son's feelings, not her parenting. She really can't argue with that. You're backing your son. He has say in his friendships, even at 5 or 6. They are not toddlers anymore. She can't force your son into a friendship with hers. It isn't working out, and she should know the truth. Maybe her son will lose enough playdates or friends it will open her eyes, and his. To be gentle I would tell her you're sorry things have turned out this way because you enjoy her company and maybe you can reconnect at some point in the future. (she may be thinking future as in another month, but that can mean much longer, or it can mean you and she getting together without the kids sometime).