Can't Understand How Other Women Act

To anyone who thinks friendships just magically happen...

You're RIGHT. Friendships DO magically happen. If it's NOT magically happening, it's not a friendship. Work and sacrifice and angst....that's marriage, not friendship.

This woman said the right thing to you to try to make you feel better at the time when you needed it. She did not commit to you.

I think you are way overthinking. Which makes you come off as needy and clingy. And friendship should he fun and relaxing and enjoyable.

Shrug it off. It's not a match.

:)

You are expecting too much from this woman with whom you do not have a relationship. You are aquaintances. Mothers often make the mistake of assuming that because their kids are in the same class/school or had one play date that this constitutes a relationship worthy of ongoing acknowledgement and it does not. It's really bad when the kids don't even like each other, but the moms have this need to connect with the other mom. There isn't a "closeness" factor her. You want something from her that she is not remotely interested in giving. Move on.

She's just not that into you.

Move on, hon. And don't dwell on it. Your gut told you from the beginning that this person wasn't all that friendly.

Mary,

I don't want to seem rude or unsympathetic, but have you thought to talk to someone about what seems so hard about friendships and other women for you? I remembered that you had posted on this topic several times over the last months, second-guessing and needing help sorting out 'why' another mother or woman acted a certain way toward you.

Maybe you are misreading cues? Maybe you are expecting more from other people than they can give? I don't know... I just know that your posts do often seem focused on this topic.

We don't know you personally, so we don't know that when you had that 'gut feeling' about Dee if you became distant and withdrawn or still were relaxed and friendly. Maybe she senses that you don't trust her and only talks to you when others aren't around because she feels it would be rude not to. Maybe she thinks you don't like her and so she is making an effort to connect with the other moms to alleviate the situation a bit. It sounds like you have imposed a lot of rules on things: you say that she was surprised that you showed up at her home (without calling, which is a no- no) and then you expected her to acknowledge that your kids had played together.

I think you need to go find out what it is that's keeping you from making friends. Maybe you are pushing people away. It's okay, really-- I used to do this in some situations, a long time ago. I really think seeking out a counselor to sort through this with would help you gain some insight, confidence and help you figure out how to do the dance of friendship with others. It can't be only how you expect things to go, Mary. I am trying to say this kindly because I can see that this part of your life is very troubling for you-- is challenging-- and the only way to change a repeat problem is tackling your end and how you are handling those situations. That's all you can do.

I hope you take this as advice given with concern and care-- I do not think you are a bad person at all; I just know from experience that some things require more than a forum of strangers-- this seems like one of those 'look deep within' occasions. And I wouldn't tell you to do something I haven't/wouldn't do myself. I think it would be good for you... I was a lot happier once I did my own work and even if I don't make lots of new friends, I more or less feel comfortable in those mixed social situations like you describe; I don't walk away from them second-guessing myself or dwelling on what was said and what wasn't. Good luck!

Mary, after reading both of your questions I think the problem here is not so much that you're shy, but that you have a hard time with social cues.
Adults generally don't make new friends as swiftly and easily as children do. I have become good friends with several moms over the years, but that's the thing, it took YEARS for these friendships to develop. It was a combination of things, our kids played together, we volunteered and worked on committees at school together, but most importantly, we just "cliqued." Friendships need chemistry, it's not much different than a romantic relationship.
Keep putting yourself out there, and try to RELAX. You may be coming across as needy or desperate, like you're trying too hard, which usually turns people off.
Join a book group or take a class. Do something where you'll meet people you have something in common with and friendships will form more naturally. It doesn't only need to be the moms of your daughter's friends (that's a pretty small pool anyway.) Let your daughter form her own friendships while you do the same.

You seem to be doing what a lot of people do when dating, this person looks great on paper so this should work. Relationship just aren't like that. People are either friends or they are not.

I use the dating example because this could have been written by any jilted lover anywhere. They are self centered, dismissive..... No, they aren't, they are polite but they don't want to be friends with you.

I am not trying to be cruel with this it is just I worry that by you getting this worked up over someone you don't know, who isn't your friend, just because *you* feel you should be friends is going to drive away women who want to be your friend. You are kind of coming off as that creepy stalker date that can't accept they just aren't that into you.

You are acquaintances and that's perfectly fine. She doesn't want to be your "friend", but she is kind to you. That's pretty much it. My guess is that her daughter is in the same boat... she likes your daughter and enjoys playing with her, but isn't looking to be best friends.

We have my son's friends' parents over occasionally if we're doing a playdate (BBQ b/c the boys are really to young for a sleepover), but I wouldn't pick up the phone and go out to dinner as couples. They are very nice and we have a lot in common. We are "friendly", but not "friends". That's just the way it is!

For what it's worth, I would be caught off guard too if someone randomly knocked on my door with their children to see if we wanted a play date- right now.

it sounds like your daughters in 1st since she's a daisy.
I assume you're analyzing yur daughter and her daughter too much. My daughter has gone to a girl in her class for a playdate and then hung with her every day in school for a month yet at the father daughter dance they acted like they didnt know eachother and barely said hi. There was no reason they J. werent into playing together that night. so i dont think hte other little girl adn your girl are any more or less odd than most 6 and 7 year olds.

as for the other mom. it seems she is being cordial to you but not interested in being a friend or having playdates. she talks to you when noone else is there to talk with but doesnt enjoy it enough to talk or engage with you when more interesting people to her are there. i would say its her but you say you have this problem a lot so maybe you're overanalyzing everything and not trying enough and giving off a vibe of being annoyed by this instead of J. relaxing and chatting and joking around?

sweetie, you misread the situation, and then inadvertently made things worse by showing up unannounced at her house. few of us appreciate it when that happens.
and now you're over-analyzing.
people will tell you 'trust your gut', but sometimes, in some circumstances, our guts are not reliable. because you have some degree of social phobia, i think this is the case for you. so you need to train yourself to read social cues and body language. it IS a skill that can be learned.
it's unlikely that she was actually deliberately ignoring you after your initial meeting. she just had someone there who IS her friend. you weren't registering on her radar.
she shared something personal with you, and your reaction was to 'give her the benefit of the doubt.' that's not actually a warm receptive response, and she picked up on it. she probably felt slightly rebuffed, hence her somewhat chilly reaction to you when you saw her next.
none of this is meant to judge you or make you feel badly. i'm simply pointing out another likely scenario.
then you showed up unannounced. she probably was a little freaked out. lesson learned. from now on, call first. (even if it's hard. geez, how i hate phones. but do it anyway.) her discomfort was passed on to her daughter, even as your social anxieties are probably registering with yours.
at the next meeting, dee was sitting there talking to her friend. there's really no big need for you to feel as if they SHOULD include you. if two people are chatting quietly and not making moves to include you, move on and find something else to do. it doesn't necessarily mean that she's unfriendly or doesn't like you, but she is also not obligated to constantly put you at ease. you've got to figure that part out for yourself.
and you can. you really can. arm yourself with a few courteous ice-breaking questions so you're not at a total loss for words. teach yourself to gauge the energy of others as you approach. heads together, no eye-contact with anyone else, quiet tones, probably mean a private do-not-interrupt conversation. laughter, light-hearted tones, and lots of movement indicate an open social situation into which you can quietly insert yourself without weirdness. worst case scenario, find a task with which to busy yourself.
you are putting the onus of developing the friendship and making you feel comfy on dee. clearly she doesn't feel this is her job. let her off the hook, or your daughter is going to lose a potential friend.
take a deep breath, my dear. you can do this. but you need to dial back your expectations, and settle more comfortably into your own skin.
khairete
S.

Way to much over thinking here.

Just cause your kids are friendly doesn't mean you two will be, and honestly it sounds like the friendship between the girls is more one sided on your DD's part.

Invites are usually part of polite conversation, but don't usually mean anything, or at least rarely happen. Sometimes a persons intentions are good, it just never happens.

Start looking elsewhere, but keep your expectations realistic.

It's challenging, and sometimes unwise, to think too hard about what is inside another person. You won't ever really know, even with a lifelong best friend, all the corners of another person's heart.

The first thing that occurred to me was that perhaps this woman is shy and has a difficult time making new friends. Not that she has no friends, but perhaps she feels socially inadequate outside the circle of women she knows well. Now, that could be true or not true. I can't see into her heart, either.

But why do you feel stupid for acting friendly? Should you have acted cold?

Keep up the friendliness, and simply don't expect anything in return. Give the woman time to do things her own way. You have other friends. If you two never become close, what have you lost by maintaining a cordial attitude? On the other hand, in a year or two things might change.

If you don't click with someone then you just don't click. I would not over think this. I would still be friendly with her but I am friendly with everyone so it wouldn't be a stretch for me.

I think maybe your expectations for friendship -- both for this woman Dee and for your daughter's friendships -- is a bit off kilter.

You're overthinking this. What you see as "she acts friendly in private but not in public" may be just her personality -- maybe she doesn't want to rush over to you in a group; maybe she was brought up to believe that in a larger group, one does not single out others and focus much on them because that might make others feel left out; maybe she is a basically reserved person who is warmer one on one but in groups is more self-contained. You can't know the answer because you don't know her very well yet. You also can't know if on any given day in a group she might just have had bad news, or be having a lousy day, or just not feel like being a chatty friend to you then and there. But if you were to see her alone the next day you might find her telling you what the problem was, and being more open and warmer with you one one one. Again -- you don't know. Why not give her the benefit of the doubt on that?

I know what you mean about being left out of the conversation at the scout tea when Dee and her friend were talking. But is it just possible that they hadn't seen each other in ages, or had something in common that they were discussing? I've been in that position too and I know it feels like an intentional slight, and it may BE a slight - but probably not intentional.

As for the day her daughter came over and "wandered around our house like zombie" and seems to have bored your kids -- you said yourself that the little girl wasn't feeling well; of course she was a zombie, but she seems to have been expected by your kids, and by you, to be more entertaining, or at least livelier. She wasn't well. Her mom should have said no to her playing that day, but it's done; why does it still loom so large in your thoughts? Do you feel that the daughter is also unfriendly? Again -- she wasn't well. The post sounds critical of her for not being made more comfortable by your daughter's efforts and for not being more playful.

Not sure also why you wanted "an acknowledgement that our kids hung out" when you saw Dee another time in a group. What does that mean and why would you have valued it? The kids hung out that day--not you and Dee. Kids hang out all the time; why is there a need to acknowledge it?

One problem I see too is this expectation that kids will just turn up at each others' doors and say they're ready to play. Around here, parents call each other first -- kids don't just turn up; it would create a lot of disappointment if they did, because kids and parents are busy. You say "Dee was a little weirded out that we just turned up" and I would be too -- you don't know if she was in the middle of something she didn't want to stop but felt obliged to stop since you turned up unannounced. It's not unfriendly or less than neighborly to want people to call before showing up at the door; it's hard to say no to a kid who is at the door, and whom your own kid sees standing there. Maybe yours is just a "turn up" neighborhood but it can put people on the spot.

Why does she mean so much to you that you are so invested in securing her friendship or analyzing her motives? We have been to some houses two different times and much more, and are not warm, close buddies with the families in every case. The kids hang out and we talk with the parents a bit. If close friendships form (and in some cases they do) that is a blessing, but we don't expect it, or expect reciprocation of each play date or acknowledgement, in every case.

Your daugher is young and her friendships will shift very frequently. If you worry this much about every mom you encounter through your child's activities and friendships, you're going to burn out and stay upset a lot. Let it go. Get involved in some things YOU enjoy and find women with common interests that way - it's a much stronger bond than just having kids who are in the same activities or the same class at school.

She might be socially awkward, or an introvert. I am an introvert, and when I am just starting to get to know someone (which, for an introvert, means that you are getting to know them over a period of several months), I am not quite sure of the balance I should strike between familiarity and distance. I don't want to seem clingy, so I don't always go right up and talk to the person when I see them. I tend to use my kids as my wing-man in social settings with other parents.

yes this has happened to me, many times. dont pursue the friendship love. put a period behind it and move on. you need a friend that is going to treat you the same no matter where you are and if you are not getting a friendly and welcoming feeling from her... let it go. i personally would not care to be friends with a person like this. i think that friends obviously need to mesh with each other. she sounds to me like one of those woman who either you like or you dont like. good luck!

You've always got to go with your gut feeling. If someone treats you one way in private, and another in public, they are not truly your friend.

I have very few girlfriends because I can't stand the dynamics and politics of it all. I really have to feel a connection with someone before I let my guard down.

What you have to understand is that real, true friendships are very, very had to find. The best kind are where you have an unforced connection and chemistry. That's what you are trying to look for, so don't settle and don't sell yourself short. Continue to put yourself out there and be friendly, and if people act like this woman, put her in the "acquaintance" category and keep on moving on. A true friendship doesn't require this much effort- just remember that.

The way your story reads, she almost sounds like a bad guy. You two just didn't hit it off, and that's okay. It doesn't make either of you the bad one. You're just upset because you based your expectations on something else and not what was right before you. She didn't do anything wrong. She's not your friend.

Looks like you need the friendship. She is just not interested. That does not mean girls cannot play. There is no need to discuss with parent how kids played what they did. Why is playing so complicated these days. Open door, let child out to play.

I think the best thing to do in a situation is to decide what you will do and not try to figure what is up with her. One thing I have learned is that people are all sooooo different. As hard as it is to imagine from your perspective, she may not think she is even snubbing you, only that you are a new acquaintance and she might be a person who lets people in slowly or she could be a thoughtless, selfish person. No way for you to really figure that on out. But, if you are not comfortable with her way of being, just move on till you find that special friend that clicks with you :). But try not to think ill of her, you really don't know her motivations and in he end she could become. Great friend who knows!!

Pardon my french, Women are bitches! Move on and she is not a friend but an aquaintence!

What you're describing is a character flaw.
Forget it...and her.
I've encountered these types.
They're usually terribly insecure.
I know--sad, but true!